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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » What became of all the people?

   
Author Topic: What became of all the people?
Caretaker
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Bottom line if they know of Christ and reject Him they are without excuse, condemned already.

If they have never heard of Christ then we leave those who we know nothing of in the Hand of God, and we know that God is love and truly just.

It is only through Christ that we have forgiveness and are born-again.


quote:


What actually happens to those who have not heard the gospel of Christ depends upon several factors.

It depends first of all (but not finally) on how they have responded to God's general revelation. In the case of those who have neglected or rejected such general revelation (no doubt the case with the vast majority of those who have never heard of Christ), they're lost, condemned for all eternity to a real hell. But note--they are not condemned for what they haven't heard. They are judged for what they have heard and rejected. In this sense, as R.C. Sproul rightly states, "there are no innocent people in the world."

In the case, however, of the one who has never heard of Christ, yet sincerely worships God as he knows Him, and lives consistently with moral law as he understands it, we do have some grounds (Acts 10 et al) to believe that God may be pleased to grant a further special revelation involving the Gospel of Christ Himself, which one would then, in turn, either accept or reject. Exactly how or when would God arrange for such a further revelation? Might I Peter 3:18-20 or 4:6 somehow correlate with Romans 2:16 here? The Scripture allows many such details to remain hidden, while being unequivocal about the fact that God will judge with perfect justice (Psalm 98:9). (Could this be what is happening on a widespread basis in the Muslim world today?)

Does all this detail somehow seem trivial to you? Be certain that it is not! In fact, this subject in all of its related subtlety is absolutely critical. Among other things, for instance, correct Biblical exegesis on this subject provides an unequaled incentive for the continued Christian mission of proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth. As Romans 10:14 says,

"How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?"

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/godfair.html




--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
thefixer
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My dear brother Drew,
I have read the passages you listed and perhaps I am failing to understand them properly in regards to the question raised. In Romans 2:12-16 as you posted:
"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel" (Romans 2:12-16).
Does the first part of the first sentence mean that those who did not know of the 'Law", ie. the Ten Commandments, perish and are not granted entry into Heaven? I understand the rest of the sentence to mean that if upon knowing the 'Law" any sin of that person will be judged according to the 'Law'. Am I correct in my understanding? Also, if I am correct in understanding that scripture tells us that it is impossible for man, given his own power, to obey every Commandment and be judged as worthy by God and that without Jesus' intervention (sacrifice) all are lost?
I guess it seems that the essence of the question is: Can a person, who knows nothing about Jesus or His 'gift' of salvation or about the 'Laws' as written, lead a life that God will find worthy?
May the Spirit enlighten us and lead us to clarity.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).

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Thunderz7
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Romans 1:19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

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Bloodbought
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I heard a man testify who said he never heard a word preached from the bible, but he knew from creation that there was a God who brought the universe into existence. He said he began to thank God for what He had done even though he knew nothing about salvation. He went on to say that one night when he was in bed he had a revelation of Christ that brought him to repent of his sin and trust Christ as his saviour.

When one accepts the light they received they will receive more light.

When one rejects the light they received they are left in darkness.

There is no excuse for anyone, for all receive a measure of light.

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Caretaker
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God bless you Leroy. I posted your question and my initial response on other forums for consideration. Here is one great response from a Brother on Bro. Keith's forum:


[quote author=bbb board=general thread=6459 post=40231 time=1318784563]One of the proofs that God is the Author of Scripture is the simple fact that man would not have included these verses:

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:17-20).

In fact, Romans 1 is a very unpopular chapter with universalists and homosexuals. In fact, it wraps all sinners into the whole ball of yarn and condemns all without Christ . . .

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them" (Romans 1:28-32).

And then Paul ties on the heavenly bow with these words:

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

For those in between . . ., and I admit, a rather difficult passage in Scripture . . . grace.

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel" (Romans 2:12-16).

God's arbitration will be just and based upon the knowledge of the Christ-Accepter, or Truth-rejecter.

An interesting verse is this one:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18).

The italicized portion is based on the word kataekw which means to "Hold Down", or "suppress." What it means is that what little truth the rejecter possesses, he pushed away . . . as we so clearly see with the evolutionists. Creation proves the existence of a Creator . . . and they know it . . . but they would rather push that truth away and choose to accept the ridiculous.


[/quote]

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
thefixer
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
quote:
Originally posted by thefixer:
Dear brothers and sisters,
Could anyone give me some insight into a question a brother posed to me a little while ago and of which I cannot find a biblical response to. The question was: “What became of all the people who have died after Jesus returned to heaven but had never heard His message of salvation. Were they lost or saved?” There has been countless people who have lived in places that the Gospel has just recently reached who never heard of Jesus. What became of them?
I could only respond by supposing that Jesus or a messenger would meet them, after they died and in a place other than here or heaven, and 'preach' the Gospel to them so that they would have the opportunity to accept or reject the gift. Is my supposition correct or is there some passages that I missed?
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).

We can be assured that God is absolutely just, and those judged before the Great White Throne and cast into the Lake of Fire are without excuse, and are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life.


quote:


WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY ISOLATED FROM CHRISTIANITY? HOW CAN THEY RESPOND TO CHRIST?



Every person, no matter what his geographical location, has at least two sources of information about God to which he can respond.

Nature is one source. As we observe the universe around us, we see design and beauty far beyond anything we or even nature itself could produce. In chapter 12 we deal specifically with natural revelation. What is important to point out here is that everyone has the same natural wonders around him, and they point to a superior being beyond man whom anyone may choose to seek.

If I were to live in your house a while, I would know you existed even if I never met you. The pictures, artifacts, and designs I would find around the house would tell me of your existence as a distinct person with a definite personality. I would have enough information to decide to try to find you if I wanted to. The apostle Paul put it this way: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

But nature is not our only source of information about God. Another one is within ourselves--conscience. We have the idea of a standard of goodness beyond what we are able to keep. Conscience tells us about sin: the difference between the way we live and the way we know we ought to live.

A few days ago, I had a man in my office who had been an atheist most of his life. He told me how as a teenager he had rejected the beliefs of the church he grew up in and replaced them with a moral code that he thought he should live by. Then he tried to live by it.

"To my surprise," he told me, "I couldn't keep my own moral standards. What's worse, I found myself pretending I was the kind of person I had decided I should be, even though I couldn't pull it off."

"That's fascinating," I said. "You made up your own religion, converted yourself to it, then backslid from it, so you became a hypocrite about it!"

He agreed.

We both had a good laugh. But there is a point here not to be overlooked. Even though he outwardly rejected God, he could not escape his inner knowledge of a goodness beyond what he was able to keep. Speaking of those who have never heard, the Bible says, "They show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thought alternately accusing or else defending them" (Romans 2:15). What finally brought him to a belief in God was his realization that man has a sense of goodness far greater than he needs for basic survival.

http://www.pccorner.com/ato/ato_ch6.htm#Q1

http://www.pccorner.com/ato/ato_Contents.htm



Dear brother Drew,
While it is true that everyone, in whatever fashion, should, and most probably do, realize that God exists and that, to some extent, they fail to live up to His 'standards' and perhaps even get to the point of realizing that they are lost. How does that condition of 'knowing of God' ensure that they are saved? Does not scripture plainly state that without one's acceptance of the 'gift' of salvation through the shed blood of Jesus all are lost and will find no salvation? Does not scripture make it plain that even the people chosen by God (the Jewish nation) even though they know of God and, for the most part, keep His commandments, are considered 'lost' unless they accept Jesus' sacrifice?
To my understanding merely 'Knowing' that God exists does, in NO WAY, assure salvation. Therefore my original question remains: What becomes of the dead who had never had prior knowledge of Jesus or His gift of salvation? Does God reject them, are they judged by how they lived, or is there some instance, between their death and when they stand before the Judgement Seat, that they are presented with Jesus and given the opportunity to accept of reject the 'Gift'?
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).

Posts: 71 | From: Yuma, Arizona | Registered: Aug 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by thefixer:
Dear brothers and sisters,
Could anyone give me some insight into a question a brother posed to me a little while ago and of which I cannot find a biblical response to. The question was: “What became of all the people who have died after Jesus returned to heaven but had never heard His message of salvation. Were they lost or saved?” There has been countless people who have lived in places that the Gospel has just recently reached who never heard of Jesus. What became of them?
I could only respond by supposing that Jesus or a messenger would meet them, after they died and in a place other than here or heaven, and 'preach' the Gospel to them so that they would have the opportunity to accept or reject the gift. Is my supposition correct or is there some passages that I missed?
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).

We can be assured that God is absolutely just, and those judged before the Great White Throne and cast into the Lake of Fire are without excuse, and are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life.


quote:


WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY ISOLATED FROM CHRISTIANITY? HOW CAN THEY RESPOND TO CHRIST?



Every person, no matter what his geographical location, has at least two sources of information about God to which he can respond.

Nature is one source. As we observe the universe around us, we see design and beauty far beyond anything we or even nature itself could produce. In chapter 12 we deal specifically with natural revelation. What is important to point out here is that everyone has the same natural wonders around him, and they point to a superior being beyond man whom anyone may choose to seek.

If I were to live in your house a while, I would know you existed even if I never met you. The pictures, artifacts, and designs I would find around the house would tell me of your existence as a distinct person with a definite personality. I would have enough information to decide to try to find you if I wanted to. The apostle Paul put it this way: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

But nature is not our only source of information about God. Another one is within ourselves--conscience. We have the idea of a standard of goodness beyond what we are able to keep. Conscience tells us about sin: the difference between the way we live and the way we know we ought to live.

A few days ago, I had a man in my office who had been an atheist most of his life. He told me how as a teenager he had rejected the beliefs of the church he grew up in and replaced them with a moral code that he thought he should live by. Then he tried to live by it.

"To my surprise," he told me, "I couldn't keep my own moral standards. What's worse, I found myself pretending I was the kind of person I had decided I should be, even though I couldn't pull it off."

"That's fascinating," I said. "You made up your own religion, converted yourself to it, then backslid from it, so you became a hypocrite about it!"

He agreed.

We both had a good laugh. But there is a point here not to be overlooked. Even though he outwardly rejected God, he could not escape his inner knowledge of a goodness beyond what he was able to keep. Speaking of those who have never heard, the Bible says, "They show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thought alternately accusing or else defending them" (Romans 2:15). What finally brought him to a belief in God was his realization that man has a sense of goodness far greater than he needs for basic survival.

http://www.pccorner.com/ato/ato_ch6.htm#Q1

http://www.pccorner.com/ato/ato_Contents.htm




--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
thefixer
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Member # 8837

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Dear brothers and sisters,
Could anyone give me some insight into a question a brother posed to me a little while ago and of which I cannot find a biblical response to. The question was: “What became of all the people who have died after Jesus returned to heaven but had never heard His message of salvation. Were they lost or saved?” There has been countless people who have lived in places that the Gospel has just recently reached who never heard of Jesus. What became of them?
I could only respond by supposing that Jesus or a messenger would meet them, after they died and in a place other than here or heaven, and 'preach' the Gospel to them so that they would have the opportunity to accept or reject the gift. Is my supposition correct or is there some passages that I missed?
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).

Posts: 71 | From: Yuma, Arizona | Registered: Aug 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
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