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Topic: Free will, Free thought, and Loyal Faith
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
Also, if you are going to dismiss the Writings of Paul, you will also have to dismiss the Writings of Peter.
2Pe 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
GJPaul,
Are you gay? I have found that many who want to dismiss the writings of Paul are upset about Paul's stance on homosexuals.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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GJPaul
unregistered
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posted
It does seem to me, if we want to make an arguement against this life, we must join Love, and we must refuse the earth the most we can.
This is why Jesus asks fellowship.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by GJPaul:
If you can and will, show me were God has authorized you to refuse and abandon the knowledge and lessons of His son Jesus, and instead set-up camp behind another much much much lesser than Jesus, and whose opinions directly contradict those of His son. ( and God's own will, in real meaning. )
It is NOT belief in Jesus which drives you, but belief in Paul instead.
Now where has God authorized Paul to overrule Jesus's knowledge and authority ?
How is it the opinions of Paul holds greater virtue than the knowledges of Jesus ?
If you can, explain to me if the Cross and Law which Jesus lived from, and taught and requires for us to follow, are not necessary for your group to serve, then how are those also not unnecessary for anyone to serve ?
If the will and law of God is unnecessary to you to obey, it is justly unnecessary to all, including Jesus, so how is it His crucifiction and resurrection has any virtue in it ?
If Jesus had not the duty to obey God's will, He would lose nothing living his own life on earth, as your group does, so why would any rationally healthy person enter into crucifiction when it has nothing to add to their own life and they lose nothing ignoring that ?
How is it when none need respect the will of God that all that is responsibility and judgement doesn't then collapse, and the life and trials and lessons and crucifiction and resurrection of Jesus mean NOTHING ?
The fact is you can't !
You refuse your duty to join Jesus's Law and Cross by mistrust in the cross of Jesus; your faith-group lacks belief in Jesus.
Ok your right... So do you want that job or something?
You can have it.
But are you worthy and Q-ed?
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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GJPaul
unregistered
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posted
If you can and will, show me were God has authorized you to refuse and abandon the knowledge and lessons of His son Jesus, and instead set-up camp behind another much much much lesser than Jesus, and whose opinions directly contradict those of His son. ( and God's own will, in real meaning. )
It is NOT belief in Jesus which drives you, but belief in Paul instead.
Now where has God authorized Paul to overrule Jesus's knowledge and authority ?
How is it the opinions of Paul holds greater virtue than the knowledges of Jesus ?
If you can, explain to me if the Cross and Law which Jesus lived from, and taught and requires for us to follow, are not necessary for your group to serve, then how are those also not unnecessary for anyone to serve ?
If the will and law of God is unnecessary to you to obey, it is justly unnecessary to all, including Jesus, so how is it His crucifiction and resurrection has any virtue in it ?
If Jesus had not the duty to obey God's will, He would lose nothing living his own life on earth, as your group does, so why would any rationally healthy person enter into crucifiction when it has nothing to add to their own life and they lose nothing ignoring that ?
How is it when none need respect the will of God that all that is responsibility and judgement doesn't then collapse, and the life and trials and lessons and crucifiction and resurrection of Jesus mean NOTHING ?
The fact is you can't !
You refuse your duty to join Jesus's Law and Cross by mistrust in the cross of Jesus; your faith-group lacks belief in Jesus.
It does seem to me, if we want to make an arguement against this life, we must join Love, and we must refuse the earth the most we can.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Free will, Free thought, and Loyal Faith
= self will.
Should be free choice, Free thought, learn Christ.
None here compels yea to be Christian.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
A. The Scriptures
We believe that the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, are the
inspired Word of God and are therefore without error in the original writings.
We further believe that this inspiration is not in different degrees, but extends
equally and fully to all parts of the Bible: historical, poetical, doctrinal and
prophetical. We, therefore, believe in the absolute authority of the Bible in all
matters of faith and practice. John 10:35; II Timothy 3:16, 17; II Peter 1:21.
B. The True God
We believe in one living and true God who is the Creator of heaven and earth;
who is eternal, almighty, unchangeable, infinitely powerful, wise, just and
holy.
We believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the
Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and
co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of
precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience. Matthew 3:16, 17;
Matthew 28:19, 20; Mark 12:29; John 1:14; Acts 5:3, 4; II Corinthians 13:14.
C. God the Father
We believe in God the Father, Creator and Sustainer of all things, perfect in
holiness, wisdom, power and love. We believe that He concerns Himself
mercifully in the affairs of men; that He hears and answers prayer; that He
sent His Son into the world; that He saves from sin and death all who come
to Him through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Genesis 1:1; Psalms 7:9;
Matthew 5:48; John 3:16; Acts 13:17-25; Acts 14:15-17; Acts 17:24-28.
D. The Person and Work of Jesus Christ
We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, that He was conceived of the Holy
Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, and is fully God and fully
Man. We believe that our redemption has been accomplished solely by the
blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, who was made to be sin, and made a curse for
us, dying in our place that we might be forgiven. We believe that He died not
only for our sins, but also for the sins of the entire world. We believe that He
was raised from the dead in bodily form and that He ascended into heaven,
where He sits at the right hand of God the Father interceding for us.
We believe in the personal, bodily, imminent and pre-millennial return of our
Lord Jesus Christ for His Church and His subsequent millennial reign over
restored Israel and the kingdoms of the world. Luke 1:30-35; 2:7; John 1:1-4;
Romans 9-11; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:13-19; Hebrews 1:1-3; I Peter
3:18; I Corinthians 15:3-7; Hebrews 7:25; Acts 1:11, 15:14-17; I
Thessalonians 4:13-18; I John 2:2.
E. The Holy Spirit
We believe that the Holy Spirit is not merely an influence, but a divine Person;
that He is the source and power of all acceptable worship and service and is
our abiding Counselor and Helper. We believe that the baptism of the Holy
Spirit occurs at the moment of conversion and is that act whereby believers
are united with Christ as part of His body; that the Holy Spirit permanently
indwells all believers in Christ; that He will never depart from the Church nor
from the weakest believer; that by His indwelling the believer is enabled to
live a godly life. John 14:16,17; 16:13-15; Acts 1:8; 5:3,4; Romans 8:9; I
Corinthians 6:19; 12:13; Galatians 5:22,23.
F. The Fall of Man
We believe that man, although created as an innocent being in the image of
God, fell from his high and holy estate through Adam's act of disobedience. As
a result, sin entered the human race, leaving mankind subject to the wrath of
God, spiritually dead, inherently corrupt, and incapable of pleasing God apart
from a work of divine grace. Thus all men are hopelessly lost apart from the
salvation which is in the Lord Jesus Christ. Genesis 1:27; 3:6-24; Romans
5:12, 19; Ephesians 2:13; Romans 3:8-18.
G. The Way of Salvation
We believe that, due to universal death through sin, no one can enter the
kingdom of God unless born again; that salvation is only by grace through
faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and that all who receive the Lord
Jesus Christ through faith are declared righteous by God and thereby become
children of God.
We believe the Scriptures teach that regeneration, or the new birth, is that
act of God by which the Holy Spirit imparts a new nature and a new spiritual
life, not before possessed, and the person becomes a new creation in Christ
Jesus. The mind is given a holy disposition and a new desire to serve God, the
dominion of sin broken, and the heart transformed from a love of sin and self
to a love of holiness and God.
As the believer walks in the power of the Holy Spirit, these new realities
become evident in a life characterized by holiness, compassion and zeal.
Ephesians 2:1-10; John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Hebrews 9:22; John 3:1-18; II
Corinthians 5:17; I Peter 1:18, 19.
H. The Church
We believe the true Church of Jesus Christ had its historical beginning at
Pentecost, that it is composed of all true believers in Jesus Christ, is the body
and bride of our Lord, and is distinct from Israel.
We believe that since there is spiritual unity of all believers in Jesus Christ, it
is our duty to love one another fervently, endeavoring at all times to keep the
unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
We believe that the purpose of the church in the world is to glorify God
through worship, prayer, teaching of the Word, observance of the ordinances,
fellowship, the exercise of our gifts and talents, and the proclamation of the
gospel both in our community and throughout the world. Acts 2:1, 41-47;
Romans 12:5; I Corinthians 12:12, 13; I Corinthians 10:32; Ephesians 1:22,
23; 4:3-6; Colossians 1:18; Colossians 3:14-15.
I. The Ordinances
We believe the ordinances of the Church are two in number and constitute a
scriptural means of public testimony for the church in this age. One is that of
believer’s baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; and the
other is the Lord’s Supper. Matthew 26:27-30; I Corinthians 11:23-30;
Matthew 28:19; Acts 16:30-33.
J. The Security of the Believer
We believe that those who have by faith trusted Jesus Christ as Lord and
Savior are eternally secure and can never lose their salvation. We further
believe it is the privilege of all believers to be assured of their salvation; that
this assurance rests not in themselves, but in the promises of God; that the
Scriptures teach that such as are truly regenerate, being born of the Spirit,
will not utterly fall away and finally perish, but are kept by the power of God
unto the day of salvation. We also believe that the doctrine of eternal
security should lead to a life of love, gratitude and obedience to God. John
6:39; 10:27-29; Philippians 1:6; I Peter 1:3-5; I John 2:19; Romans 11:29.
K. Sanctification
We believe the Scriptures teach that sanctification is the means by which,
according to the will of God, we are made partakers of His holiness and that,
as we practice our faith and walk in the power of the Holy Spirit, the fruit of
the Spirit is manifested in our lives. Galatians 5:22, 23; Colossians 3:8-12; II
Corinthians 3:18; John 17:17; I Peter 3:18; I Thessalonians 3:12, 13;
Ephesians 5:26; I Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 10:25.
L. Future Reward and Punishment
We believe that at the moment of death, believers pass immediately into the
presence of Christ and remain there in joyful fellowship with Him until the
resurrection of the body at His second coming, after which they will be
forever with the Lord in glory. We also believe that at the moment of death,
the unsaved descend to Hell where they are kept under punishment until their
bodies are raised at the final judgment, after which they will suffer everlasting
conscious punishment separated from the presence of the Lord. Acts 17:31;
Matthew 25:31-46; II Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23; Revelation 20:11-15;
John 14:1-3; 3:16; II Thessalonians 1:7-10; Revelation 21:1-5.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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GJPaul
unregistered
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posted
Free will, Free thought, and Loyal Faith
The right to live this life establishes the rights for selfish, careless and harmful society, and all savage, unscrupulous and criminal and immoral behaviours will always be the central meanings of this life. This is the moral dilemma we all are forced into, and which the moral politic of Christ speaks from for a real solution.
Christ could not support the rights nor means to this life and not then endorse all its harms and crimes and injustices.
The gospels testimony of witness of Christ's resurrection serves to claim to prove Christ's claim our lives can exist apart from material body and earth. The resurrection also claims to prove the safety of self-sacrifice ( and self denial, which together are the cross ), and promises all followers are protected in all acts of love for other people. ( which serves to prove his law. ) All that Jesus said and taught and did and was are anchored in his crucifiction and resurrection.
Jesus does ask and require ALL sincere followers join his law and Cross. There are perhaps 30 direct testimonies of claims of witness Jesus did himself say such as that in the N.T. Gospels.
( ' Creation ' is neither God's will nor making, and materialism has good in it not by the will of it's author, but by the goodness of the eternal personhood the universal God is. God forced that ' author ' to include those goods, for it was required materialism fairly represent the dualist character of universe, albeit in the pre-material universe ' evil ' was only implicit and unactualized ( it did not harm the life the universe is ), where in materialism it is fully explicit/actualized ; all manner and type and amount of harm and offence and crime and injustice are explicitely manifest in the material creation. )
~ ~ ~
My learned version of faith is directly opposite to yours ; it is only by good will and good deeds has one the just basis to ask to be allowed to continue in life with the society of others.
The woman is known by her Heart and the man by his word, and these are the 2 sacred virtues of Truth and Compassion ( mind and Heart ) by which all humankind need live.
Virtue gives vision and Heart, and vision is also Truth and Heart is always Compassion and together these found the health of our soul. We are composed of 3 things ; our body, our mind and our Heart, and God is also composed of these. This is our inherent likeness to God, and it is only of that likeness could God ask and require we agree with it's values and behaviours.
Known to very very very few, the company of God is empowered with Holy devices.
They which love Truth are provided a band of radiant pure light about their head, centering at their mind's eye, providing for them to see into ALL ' dark ' places. None can conceal anything they do from those.
They which love the Heartful are provided a pure radiant Golden ring above their heads, which give to them to hear all things spoken, even that spoken within ourselves. None can conceal the truths of their own Hearts from those, and none which plead to God go unheard.
ALL things we are and ALL things we do are before the knowledge of God .
Most Christians do not enough believe in Jesus's Cross and Resurrection, but most only in their own versions of faith ( as ' faithers ', distinctly different from sincerely believing christians. ) Catholic, Protestant and Othordoxy faiths allows them to live their own lives with all manner and amount of material havings and pleasures those are, and claim to have all their debts of their offences ' taken care of ' by that faith and those priests.
How can you rationally and honestly defend Jesus was God incarnate and would absolutely know what we are capable or not, but then issue a law and duty above our abilites and punish us for not abiding His law !
How is it some claim to believe the Bible is the very words of God and they devotedly believe in those scriptures, yet NOT our duty to His law nor Cross ?
If you decide Jesus will magically correct your behaviours by mere worship of him, then where is your free will. Life and free-will are intimately bonded, and if you have not free-will you are but a machine. You, however, obsess to believe only in your faith, and you decide if you stop doing that, you'll be caste into Christ's eternal torturous hell. It is not genuine and sincere belief in Jesus which drives you, but FEAR !
btw : As material life is one of limit, all offence and harm against anyother is naturally limited, sothen ones debts also. There is no such thing as eternal ( infinite ) punishment . You should trust in this and believe in it if you want justice in God.
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