Christian Chat Network

This version of the message boards has closed.
Please click below to go to the new Christian BBS website.

New Message Boards - Click Here

You can still search for the old message here.

Christian Message Boards


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
| | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Who are the Children of Promise ?

   
Author Topic: Who are the Children of Promise ?
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If we are True Believers, Thats the result of being a child of Promise, to become a believer. When God told Abraham He would multiply His Seed, He was speaking to Abraham as a Man of Faith, hence, the seed that God would multiply would be Children of Faith as well.

Thats why Believers are said to be the Children or seed of Abraham, observe:

Rom 4:12,16

12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:7,9

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Every time one is brought to Faith in Christ, its God fulfilling His Promise to Abraham to multiply His seed, so believers in Christ are children of promise.

People who never come to Faith in Christ, were not Children of promise, whether jew or gentile.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
carol:

quote:
No matter how far Israel may stray from the truth of God, the roots are still good. God is still the “God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob
Believers in Christ are from that root Abraham. Abraham is their Father.

Gal 3:

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

People who are not of Faith, have no relationship with God, no matter what their ethnicity is, even jewish.

The jews apart from those of Faith, like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are not the Children of God. Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

They are not of that Holy Root talked about in Rom 11:

16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy , so are the branches.

All who are of that root, will be belivers whether jew or gentile.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Israel is the Seed of Abraham, scripture confirms that, Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel , art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

And Believers in Christ, are The seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

That means believers in Christ are Israel, Spiritually, because they are Abraham's seed Spiritually.

Now If any belong to Christ, they are His Church which He is the Head of, so Christ is the Head of The Church, the seed of Abraham, which is Israel.

So this confirms that the Church and Israel are the same, the seed of Abraham, to deny this is to deny scripture.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
The Church is of the seed of Abraham by faith, BUT the Church is NOT Israel. Your eschatology has you in error Darryl:


So right!

Romans 11:17 - 18 (NLT)

But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree. But you must not brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. You are just a branch, not the root.

The Olive Tree

This is a symbol of the nation of Israel (Jer. 11:16-17; Hosea 14:4-6). Please keep in mind that Paul was not discussing the relationship of individual believers to God, but the place of Israel in the plan of God. The roots of the tree support the tree; again, this was a symbol of the patriarchs who founded the nation. God made His covenants with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and He cannot deny them or change them. Thus, it is God’s promise to Abraham that sustains Israel even today.

Many of the Jewish people did not believe. Paul pictured them as branches broken off the tree. But he saw an amazing thing taking place: other branches were grafted into the tree to share in the life of the tree. These branches were the Gentiles. In Romans 11:24, Paul described this “grafting in” as “contrary to nature.” Usually a cultivated branch is grafted into a wild tree and shares its life without producing its poor fruit. But in this case, it was the “wild branch” (the Gentiles) that was grafted into the good tree! “Salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22).

To say that the olive tree, with its natural and grafted branches, is a picture of the church would be a great mistake. In the church, “there is no difference”; believers are “all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28). God does not look on the members of Christ’s body and see them as Jews or Gentiles. The olive tree illustrates the relationship between Jew and Gentile in the program of God. The “breaking off of the branches” is the equivalent of “the fall” (Rom. 11:11), “the diminishing” (Rom. 11:12), and “the casting away” (Rom. 11:15). To read into this illustration the matter of the eternal destiny of the individual believer is to abuse the truth Paul was seeking to communicate.

Paul warned the Gentiles that they were obligated to Israel, and therefore they dared not boast of their new spiritual position (Rom. 11:18-21). The Gentiles entered into God’s plan because of faith, and not because of anything good they had done. Paul was discussing the Gentiles collectively, and not the individual experience of one believer or another.

It is worth noting that, according to Bible prophecy, the professing Gentile church will be “cut off” because of apostasy. First Timothy 4 and 2 Timothy 3, along with 2 Thessalonians 2, all indicate that the professing church in the last days will depart from the faith. There is no hope for the apostate church, but there is hope for apostate Israel! Why? Because of the roots of the olive tree. God will keep His promises to the patriarchs, but God will break off the Gentiles because of their unbelief.

No matter how far Israel may stray from the truth of God, the roots are still good. God is still the “God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob” (Ex. 3:6; Matt. 22:23). He will keep His promises to these patriarchs. This means that the olive tree will flourish again!

(Wiersbe)

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Caretaker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by beloved57:
carol:

quote:
The Body of Christ does not replace Israel.
Right they are the same, the Spiritual seed of Abraham.

Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now do you deny here that the Seed of Abraham and the Church are the same ?

The Church is of the seed of Abraham by faith, BUT the Church is NOT Israel. Your eschatology has you in error Darryl:

Gal.3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. The seed of Abraham does not mean one is Israel. It means those who are justified by faith are spiritual descendants of Abraham but this does not make them descendants of Jacob, who is Israel. They partake in the spiritual blessings that come through Israel. While there are two different groups of people who can be descendants of Abraham one of which is the Arabs, they do not share in the promises of Jacob. Only Israel is descended from the physical posterity of Jacob. God had specially promised to Israel salvation and the believing Jews received it through the gospel. But Paul explains that not all the natural descendants of Jacob were embraced in this “Israel;” for that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom. 9:6). As Paul already declared in an earlier chapter: “He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly” (Rom. 2:28, 29). The seed which is Israel is from Jacob and the apostle and other writers make a clear distinction between this and Abraham’s seed.

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel” ( Rom. 10:16). They have not all responded to God’s call to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. This is foretold by Isaiah, who is quoted by Paul in Rom. 9:27; that only a remnant of the natural descendants of Jacob would obtain the salvation of God. “Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the remnant hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded” (Rom. 11:7).

Gal. 3:7 “Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." Being a son of Abraham does not make one a Jew, being a son of Jacob does, so a gentile can be a son of Abraham. But Jew’s are a son of Abraham and of Jacob.

As Paul stated in Rom. 4:11-16, the children of Abraham, are those who have the faith of Abraham, whether by their natural birth they were Jews or Gentiles. This is detailed in Galatians 3 and 4; Gal. 3:26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” both Jews and Gentiles are spiritual brethren in the body of Christ.” The apostle says, to Gentile believers: “And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Gal. 3:29). So those who accept the Gospel both Jews and Gentiles are of Abraham's seed, but only those who are physically Israel are from Jacobs seed.

The other verse is Gal.6:16 where Paul is addressing both believing Jews and Gentiles in the church “As many as walk according to this rule (Gentile believers) and upon “the Israel of God.” This can be made clear by the preceding verses v.12-13 where Paul is tackling the topic of circumcision and the Jews influence to have the gentiles circumcised. He then tells us the mandatory rite of the Abrahamic covenant is not applicable to the believer but it is the cross that is necessary to make a new creation. In its context this term means Jews who are believers, who believe salvation is by faith in Christ contrary to what the Judaizer's were teaching that the law was needed also. Those (Jews) who obey this are the Israel of God (the remnant). Paul also addresses this in Rom.9:6-8 that there are two Israel's, one that consists of Jews and the elect, the true Israel which are the physical posterity and also have the faith of Abraham, they are the Israel of God mentioned in Gal.6. As Paul states, “ for they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Rom.9:6). There is also “Israel” after the flesh found in 1 Cor.10:18. The Church is never called spiritual Israel or is a new Israel replacing the old. Nor does it say believers become Jews. Both gentiles and Jews participate together in the New Covenant. as Eph. 2 addresses the middle wall of partition being broken down and God making a new entity. The church is neither Jew or Gentile but consists of both. The two put together make one “new man,” a third entity that is not Israel nor gentile. The word Israel is used 73 times in the New Testament, not once is it used for the Church.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
carol:

quote:
The Body of Christ does not replace Israel.
Right they are the same, the Spiritual seed of Abraham.

Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now do you deny here that the Seed of Abraham and the Church are the same ?

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 7 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes we will! [clap2]
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Caretaker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Excellent article.

So many people misinterpret “for they are not all Israel who are of Israel”.

Exactly!!!!

Darryl's eschatology also effects his perception of Israel. In one of Bill's quotes Darryl is identified as an Amillenial which relegates the future prophetic to the spiritual, such as the Millenial Reign of Christ.

It is sad to approach the Word with Blinders on, for praise God there is so much yet to come and we will reign with Christ from Jerusalem for a thousand years!!!

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Excellent article.

So many people misinterpret “for they are not all Israel who are of Israel”.

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Caretaker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by beloved57:
So, all True Believers, whether jew or gentile are the Children of Promise [Israel of God], born out of God's Promise to Abraham: Gen 17:2

2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

Believers in Christ are the results of God's Promise to Abraham, the Father of the Faithful, that He would multiply him exceedingly.

You see, Just as God promised to Abraham Isaac, and delivered on that promise, so it is, with each believer in Christ of Abraham's seed. Gal 3:7

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

So Paul says of believers in Gal 4:

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise Paul is speaking to believers.

Let Us Reason

Gal.3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. The seed of Abraham does not mean one is Israel. It means those who are justified by faith are spiritual descendants of Abraham but this does not make them descendants of Jacob, who is Israel. They partake in the spiritual blessings that come through Israel. While there are two different groups of people who can be descendants of Abraham one of which is the Arabs, they do not share in the promises of Jacob. Only Israel is descended from the physical posterity of Jacob. God had specially promised to Israel salvation and the believing Jews received it through the gospel. But Paul explains that not all the natural descendants of Jacob were embraced in this “Israel;” for that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom. 9:6). As Paul already declared in an earlier chapter: “He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly” (Rom. 2:28, 29). The seed which is Israel is from Jacob and the apostle and other writers make a clear distinction between this and Abraham’s seed.

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel” ( Rom. 10:16). They have not all responded to God’s call to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. This is foretold by Isaiah, who is quoted by Paul in Rom. 9:27; that only a remnant of the natural descendants of Jacob would obtain the salvation of God. “Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the remnant hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded” (Rom. 11:7).

Gal. 3:7 “Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." Being a son of Abraham does not make one a Jew, being a son of Jacob does, so a gentile can be a son of Abraham. But Jew’s are a son of Abraham and of Jacob.

As Paul stated in Rom. 4:11-16, the children of Abraham, are those who have the faith of Abraham, whether by their natural birth they were Jews or Gentiles. This is detailed in Galatians 3 and 4; Gal. 3:26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” both Jews and Gentiles are spiritual brethren in the body of Christ.” The apostle says, to Gentile believers: “And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Gal. 3:29). So those who accept the Gospel both Jews and Gentiles are of Abraham's seed, but only those who are physically Israel are from Jacobs seed.

The other verse is Gal.6:16 where Paul is addressing both believing Jews and Gentiles in the church “As many as walk according to this rule (Gentile believers) and upon “the Israel of God.” This can be made clear by the preceding verses v.12-13 where Paul is tackling the topic of circumcision and the Jews influence to have the gentiles circumcised. He then tells us the mandatory rite of the Abrahamic covenant is not applicable to the believer but it is the cross that is necessary to make a new creation. In its context this term means Jews who are believers, who believe salvation is by faith in Christ contrary to what the Judaizer's were teaching that the law was needed also. Those (Jews) who obey this are the Israel of God (the remnant). Paul also addresses this in Rom.9:6-8 that there are two Israel's, one that consists of Jews and the elect, the true Israel which are the physical posterity and also have the faith of Abraham, they are the Israel of God mentioned in Gal.6. As Paul states, “ for they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Rom.9:6). There is also “Israel” after the flesh found in 1 Cor.10:18. The Church is never called spiritual Israel or is a new Israel replacing the old. Nor does it say believers become Jews. Both gentiles and Jews participate together in the New Covenant. as Eph. 2 addresses the middle wall of partition being broken down and God making a new entity. The church is neither Jew or Gentile but consists of both. The two put together make one “new man,” a third entity that is not Israel nor gentile. The word Israel is used 73 times in the New Testament, not once is it used for the Church.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Caretaker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If the Church, the Body of Christ is Israel then it is a contradiction to state that they should need salvation, for to be of the Body of Christ is to already be redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb.

The Body of Christ is ONLY made up of Believers. The Body of Christ, the Church is not Israel, and God is not done with Israel, ie. the Time of Jacob's Trouble, The Return of the Messiah, the Righteous Reign of the Root of Jessie.

Romans 10:
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED!!!!!

Zech. 12:
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

The good news is that, when Christ does return to the earth at the end of the Tribulation, Israel will be ready, willing, and eager to receive Him, and proclaim, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord” (Matt. 23:39). As the stumbling of Israel brought blessing to the world at Christ’s First Coming, the reception of Israel to Christ at His Second Advent will be like “life from the dead” (Rom. 11:15). The remnant of Israel which survives the Tribulation (some one-third of the Jewish people who enter the Tribulation), will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on the same earth and the same capital city, Jerusalem, that rejected Him centuries before. Israel will be the head of the nations, and no longer the tail, and all nations will send representatives to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Isa. 2:2-3; Micah 4:1). The Church will return with Christ, and will rule with Him for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-5). He Himself told His disciples that they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel in the restoration (Matt. 19:28). Thus, Israel has not been forgotten in God’s plan. While the Jewish nation still has a dark period facing it, there is a glorious finale to Israel’s long history.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So, all True Believers, whether jew or gentile are the Children of Promise [Israel of God], born out of God's Promise to Abraham: Gen 17:2

2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

Believers in Christ are the results of God's Promise to Abraham, the Father of the Faithful, that He would multiply him exceedingly.

You see, Just as God promised to Abraham Isaac, and delivered on that promise, so it is, with each believer in Christ of Abraham's seed. Gal 3:7

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

So Paul says of believers in Gal 4:

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise Paul is speaking to believers.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Body of Christ does not replace Israel. God has plans for the future of Israel.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by beloved57:
The Children of Promise are the ones God promised to save. Now who is it that God promised shall be saved ? Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Yes Israel, which is another name for His Elect or His Chosen. God has promised to save the Children of Israel, and thats it. And this is not about the Physical Nation of Israel, they were merely a Type of the True Spiritual Israel.

stop

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Children of Promise are the ones God promised to save. Now who is it that God promised shall be saved ? Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Yes Israel, which is another name for His Elect or His Chosen. God has promised to save the Children of Israel, and thats it. And this is not about the Physical Nation of Israel, they were merely a Type of the True Spiritual Israel.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 18 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So The Children of Promise are all of Abraham's believing seed that God promised to Abraham.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 6 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thunderz7:
Any dispensation theory and denominational doctrine that teaches that Paul preached a different gospel than Jesus is FALSE.

and!


So you tell me where Jesus said anything like this.

Please explain these as it matters to your thinking.

Hint- key word MYSTERY!

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Colossians 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:


[cool_shades]

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
wb:

quote:
Please explain these as it matters to your thinking.


You explain them, I am explaining what I bring to the board.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Thunderz7     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Any dispensation theory and denominational doctrine that teaches that Paul preached a different gospel than Jesus is FALSE.
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 6 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by beloved57:
wildbill:

quote:
Your confused.


Sorry, you are, and all that extra long post proves nothing against what I have posted !
Sorry you think so.

Please explain these as it matters to your thinking.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Colossians 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:



[cool_shades]

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
wildbill:

quote:
Your confused.


Sorry, you are, and all that extra long post proves nothing against what I have posted !
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beloved57
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Gal 4:28

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul here was writing to gentile and jewish believers, all who belonged to Christ, Abraham's seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise [As Isaac was].

We see also see the phrase identification " The Children of Promise" in Paul's writing in regard to the Two Israel's in Rom 9:6-8

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Are Gentiles Children of Promise ? Yes, by all means, else would Paul's comments in Gal 4:29 be insignificant !

How are Gentiles Children of Promise and Israel and not just ethnic jews ?

Lets look at some scripture as it relates to Abraham and promises God made to Him.

Gen 17:1-5

1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.


2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will[U] multiply [/U]thee exceedingly.

3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

First of All, God identified Himself to Abram as El Shadday, The LORD Almighty, emphasizing His Power, as such God promises Abraham, that He would multiply him greatly [ see Gen 13:16 also]

This is an unconditional Promise to Abraham to multiply His Offspring, as He is the Almighty.

The word multiply is the hebrew word rabah and means:

be or become great, be or become many, be or become much, be or become numerous

to multiply, increase

God had Promised Abraham Children, an offspring, descendants, this was according to God's Power and Promise much as with His Promise to Abraham in regards to Isaac.

Now many have taken this promise in Gen 17:2 and applied it to Abraham's Natural Offspring, His Children of the Flesh, The Children of Israel according to the Flesh, but that is not the case, [U]that is a false assumption[/U], God is here promising Abraham a Spiritual Offspring, an Offspring that is of Faith, Just as He was made to be.

This Offspring was given to Abraham, not as the Father of the Ethnic jews, but as the Father Spiritually of All Nations, this is seen in verses 4-5 of Gen 17:

4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

All People, whether jew or gentile who come to Faith or believe are the Children of Promise. Their coming to Faith is by the Power of and promise of El Shadday, The Almighty !

The writer of Hebrews refers to this promise here Heb 6:12- 14

12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

13For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

14Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying[U] I will multiply thee[/U].

The writer is Identifying those in vs 12, them who through Faith and Patience inherit the promises, as of that seed that God sware to Give to Abraham when He said to Him vs 14

Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying[U] I will multiply thee[/U].

These are the Children that God promised to Abraham that He had made him a Father of many Nations, and when He first called his name Abraham Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So Abraham, as God promised, is the Father of all who believe:

Rom 4:11,16

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

See, both jew and gentile believers are of one promised seed of Abraham.

So, all True Believers, whether jew or gentile are the Children of Promise [Israel of God], born out of God's Promise to Abraham: Gen 17:2

2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will[U] multiply [/U]thee exceedingly.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Christian Message Board | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

Christian Chat Network

New Message Boards - Click Here