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Author
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Topic: Wife Divorce Husband Over Pornography?
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
John Hale ...Amen
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Z:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Sorry you all are so easy on adultery.
How are we all so easy on adultery? Me too? Please clarify.
quote:
Be it of body , mind or soul.
The Lord is very forth right in text about all.
Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
The whole thing is a matter of heart
and the beginning of this love.
So are you suggesting divorce is out of the question?
Well I was trained 2 die in defence and protection of my wifes.
They did not like me working long hours 2 do this.
and without proper attention, moved on.
I was the captain of my ship.
I should of been the moral officer.
but I failed.
Porn was my ship mate, for my mind to relieve a natural biological urge that demanded release.
All men have tapes they play in there heads.
If a wife is not working with a mans biological urge and he resorts 2 visual a few times. I can understand. But 2 make a relationship with the visual is a great sadness.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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John Hale
unregistered
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posted
We are too accommodating in the Church and in society of those who renege especially when it comes to the family.
That and we do not warn / train children what really is in store for them in life (especially in marriage and family).
Peter Pan males and Princess Pollyanna females grow up oblivious as to what is expected of them and what to expect out of others. No one warned them or trained them properly not really.
I believe marriage classes, parenting classes, and learning domesticated labor as well as professional should be in every school curriculum (around the time of sex education).
Boys as well as girls should have to wear the pregnancy prostheses and do role reversal exercises to show that housework is not the soap opera and bon bon day spa most guys think...
In fact, house work can be and usually is more demanding that professional work and it is a round the clock demand. And it is unappreciated even though it is usually only done out of love or for stability / security.
Men are to provide for their families no matter... Dr. J. Vernon McGee spoke of his own father who never complained about work on the railroad... who wore the same overalls well after they were worn slick... who used to get beaten by his overbearing foreman... McGee's voice did an uncharacteristic quiver when he mentioned this about his dad.
These things are to be faced because they are real. And the marriage is to be a life commitment unbroken by death or the most intolerable circumstances. And sometimes even then simply leaving it in the Lord's hands.
Sometimes... being the initiator of doing what's right rather than standing up for one's self or demanding what's due you...
Dr. James Dobson (I believe it was) told a client who had had enough of her husband's asininities that she was going to leave him with a blaze of glory and viscous delight. He told her that the best way to get back at him was to be the perfect wife, loving, caring, thoughtful for one month, then without warning dump him kick him to the curb. She licked her chops and agreed to this brilliant scheme.
One month later he called to see if she was ready to do the deed.
"Oh no! Doctor, we are happier than we've ever been! He's so loving and kind and caring! Heaven forbid I would ever do such a thing to this wonderful man!"
The same works in reverse, gentlemen. Dr. Walter Martin said that a woman will have no problem submitting to a man who she knows loves her as much as he loves himself.
Dr. Chuck Missler and his wife Nancy have done a series on how to revive a marriage. And it usually begins with one taking the first step towards solution rather than divorce court.
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John Hale
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posted
As I said... there may be extenuating circumstances in this case.
But, we must be very careful when trying to justify our actions by scripture (such as looking for the escape clause from marriage).
When God divorced Israel for her repeated idolatry... he had the prophet Hosea (a similar name derived from the origin of the name for Jesus, BTW) live out the prophecy of how Israel had been unfaithful to him through the harlot Gomer.
How many times did she play the harlot and Hosea redeem her?
Men / wifes... this was not just peep shows this was full blown adultery and at a time when the Law of Moses had no Grace other than temporal atonement through the various sacrifices...
Is Herb really doing this?
Is Cecilia really doing this?
OR
Are you wanting to bail out on a less-than-prince-charming husband or a less-than-slave-in-the-kitchen-***** -in-the-bedroom wife?
I agree with Carol. Divorce is taken too lightly because marriage is not taken seriously. Not really.
Till DEATH do us part...
that's an oath.
Instead it's "till something better comes along, or till I get bored..."
There have always been disappointments. Things did not turn out the way expected or hoped for... life (the way it really is) came crashing in on puppy love and pike dreams... partly because people in romantic stupor won't listen to the wisdom others offer... partly because people aren't warned what it's really like to be an adult and to be married and to have children and a mortgage and a career that could be lost at any moment or health issues or the possibilities of any number of debilitating things that would make divorce appear to be the way out.
It's not.
It's worse.
I used to work for a moving company in the early 1980's and divorce was rampant then as now. I'll never forget the faces of regret once the furniture started parting ways... the torn asunder souls beyond the perception of the worldly... the sense of loss and being lost... and having to rebuild one's own self and self esteem (not to mention the fiery darts from the ex).
The children (the most devastated victims) being told this is strictly between mummy and daddy... and they should not feel anything... yeah right!
Plastic rebuild families rushing traveling children to the air terminal badgering the ticket agent how much their baby means to them and they'd better not lose a hair from their head and then rushing off to their lives while the traveling child waits alone for the flight to visit estranged or divorced mummy or daddy...
I used to work in a limo service as well and saw this played out at the airport or sometimes in the driveway at the house where the parent and new spouse didn't even leave the house.
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John Hale
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posted
It would be interesting to see her side of the story.
If this guy had betrayed her trust in this and other ways, or if the porn was really bad (all porn being bad but some being worse).
~IF~
And I said IF...
If we are going to hold men to the adultery account of Matthew 5:27-30...
Then we must also hold women to the adultery account of Rabbi Hillel (which Jesus was answering in Matthew 5:27-30).
Rabbi Hillel lived about a generation and a half before the Lord. He taught in what became a rabbinical school of thought even by Jesus' day... that a woman was guilty of a divorceable offense according to:
Leviticus 18:8 (NASB95)
8 ‘You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness.
and:
Isaiah 47:1-3 (NASB95)
1 “Come down and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon; Sit on the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans! For you shall no longer be called tender and delicate.
2 “Take the millstones and grind meal. Remove your veil, strip off the skirt, Uncover the leg, cross the rivers.
3 “Your nakedness will be uncovered, Your shame also will be exposed; I will take vengeance and will not spare a man.”
...that if a woman exposed her legs to men who were not her husband... even if by accident... she was guilty of this divorceable offense... read that adultery.
Jesus' reply to Hillel's teaching was:
Matthew 5:27-30 (NASB95)
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’;
28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 “If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
30 “If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
Note that the Lord did not refute Hillel!
He merely answered Hillel's correct assessment of Leviticus 18:8 / Isaiah 47:1-3 with the flip side of the coin:
Job 31:1-13 (NIV)
1 “I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl.
2 For what is man’s lot from God above, his heritage from the Almighty on high?
3 Is it not ruin for the wicked, disaster for those who do wrong?
4 Does he not see my ways and count my every step?
5 “If I have walked in falsehood or my foot has hurried after deceit—
6 let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless—
7 if my steps have turned from the path, if my heart has been led by my eyes, or if my hands have been defiled,
8 then may others eat what I have sown, and may my crops be uprooted.
9 “If my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbor’s door,
10 then may my wife grind another man’s grain, and may other men sleep with her.
11 For that would have been shameful, a sin to be judged.
12 It is a fire that burns to Destruction; it would have uprooted my harvest.
13 “If I have denied justice to my menservants and maidservants when they had a grievance against me,
And the point of the law of Moses? To show mankind it is pointless to try to live up to God's standards (seeking justice) but we must seek mercy instead and receive the imputed righteousness of Christ into our accounts...
Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
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Michael Z
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Member # 8389
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posted
I guess what I am getting from all this is that the wife should give this another try, provided the husband has truly repented and turned from this. And the husband should not expect the wife to just forget all of this on the spot and go on as if nothing happened - time is needed to heal. And if the husband does not turn from this, and continues in this high-tech adultery, divorce is a valid option.
With respect to my friends, I don't know if my opinions will have too much effect anyway. My prayers will though.
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
Marriage is a type of Christ and His Bride, the Church. The thought of Him being unfaithful to His Church, or divorcing His Church, is really appalling. Divorce is far more serious than our society makes it out to be. The two are made one in the sight of God.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Michael Z
Advanced Member
Member # 8389
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Sorry you all are so easy on adultery.
How are we all so easy on adultery? Me too? Please clarify.
quote:
Be it of body , mind or soul.
The Lord is very forth right in text about all.
Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
The whole thing is a matter of heart
and the beginning of this love.
So are you suggesting divorce is out of the question?
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Sorry you all are so easy on adultery.
Be it of body , mind or soul.
The Lord is very forth right in text about all.
Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
The whole thing is a matter of heart
and the beginning of this love.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
I disagree. Most Ministers consider porn as the same as adultery. The Bible allows for remarriage if the victim of the divorce was cheated on. This said, it is better if the couple can stay together. But this will take hard work on both parts and the man may have to remove the computer from their home to keep from going into the sin of adultery.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Brother Paul
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Member # 7959
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posted
Jesus said to Peter if your brother offends you 70 x 7 in a day, if he repents forgive him.
Divorce IS allowed but only because of the hardness of peoples hearts.
If she loves this man and is faithful to her covenant before God, she must offer the chance to repent (stop) and actually forgive him if he will and does...she must give the same grace she would want for her sins. If she does not forgive neither will the Father forgive her...
If he does not repent she owes him no excuse, however, if she divorces him and he is a believer she can never remarry or she is likwise an adulteress and no better according to the same measure she is meting out...
This is the word of the Lord...love covers a multitude of sins...if he repents forgive him...it is the will of God. Now as a friend tell her this...
May God allow this man to see the grave place in which he has placed himself abd his wife and their standing before the Lord
Love in Christ
Brother Paul
Posts: 235 | From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Dec 2009
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
1st off I delete post when they are no longer edifying to the Baseball Fans. Unlike you. For instance. Your unsuccessful attempt to libel the Bereans as a CULT only proves who is in need of pity and a reeducation of the True North GRACE.
Next; Grace dont cloak it covers.
Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
You are right about my anger but in my defence, it only rears up when the enemy provokes it by cause and you have been his tool many a times with your special legalistic gospel..
Stop walking around like your a tribulation saint.
Because you ain't! your a sinner saved by
GRACE !!!!!
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
WildB sin must be eating you up, the reason you say you need so much Grace to cloak your sin.....
I pray someday you find True Grace...the power to overcome sin....
WildB you are the one with anger issue, you have said so over and over here on the board when things aren't going your way, your using profanity and deleting post....
I feel true pity for you Wildb
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Betty, I was one of those husbands that looked at porn...I'm not making excuses but when i was 11 years old at public school older boys got me looking at that stuff....over the years my addiction grew , i had to steal because i was too young to buy the mess...you have no idea the depths pornography can bring the heart...i now know i would rather been given cancer , porn is worse than cancer...
I married a girl that was offered a job as a professional model in New York, she turned it down to marry me...
I tried many times to conquer that horrible sin but with very little success...for years even after i was saved i could get no victory....
my wife Debbie never once scolded me, argued with me, never did anything but pray for me and love me....she would tell me over and over she would not let me go....she was willing to die to self that i might live....
it was by her obeying scriptures found in scripture I found victory....
when will the members of Yahshua's Body hate the things that Yahweh hates...one thing He outright states in scriptures is Divorce....
And now your cured. I can see your anger now!
REPENT!
Thats right U already have, now what?
Attack GRACE!
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Michael Z
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posted
I confirmed that my friend could not make a firm promise to stay away from porn but instead stated something like "I will try". I can see how this would be devastating and make the wife think that she was going to have to go through this again. Truthfully, I would not blame a wife for leaving her husband if he continued viewing porn even after being confronted - and scripture wise I think the wife would be justified. In this case, however, there is an effort being made to stop, just not a firm promise, so it is not quite the same. I think my friend needs to make a firm promise here.
UPDATE: I spoke with my friend and he is going to offer his wife some better assurance tonight. I am praying that things can work out.
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Michael Z
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posted
He is Christian. And in all other ways, I would not call him a carnal Christian. There are plenty of worldly "christians" around, but my friend does not strike me as one. He has a laid-back procrastinating way about him however that might seem like indifference, but I do not think that is what it is.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Michael Z this is where the rub comes in....
is he a Christian...?
if he is the wrong perspective is deadly...
if all he can lose is rewards , no problem...we just call him a carnal Christian....
but that is not what is at stake ...the scriptures ...even the Pauline epistle state emphatically no one living committing this sin will enter Eternal Life....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael Z
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posted
I don't think Betty is suggesting divorce. Rather, she is presenting a wive's/woman's perspective. (Which is very helpful here) And I spoke with my friend's wife - she was in tears. I don't know for sure, but my friend may have discussed this all in too casual a manner. To him it was a bad habit that he wanted to quit - to his wife it was unfaithfullness and adultery. When she asked him to promise never to do it again he could not make that promise - that is when things broke down.
I have a hunch that my friend struggled with this temptation long before the advent of the internet.
The one thing I have suggested to my friend is that he needs a sense of spiritual urgency. He needs to get into "the battlefield", praying and witnessing. Like a professional athlete, he will not want to compromise himself before the "big race". Yes, it is an addiction as well. And addictions are fought by completely turning away from the behavior - tough to do in today's society by one's own will alone.
Prayers are definitely needed.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Betty, I was one of those husbands that looked at porn...I'm not making excuses but when i was 11 years old at public school older boys got me looking at that stuff....over the years my addiction grew , i had to steal because i was too young to buy the mess...you have no idea the depths pornography can bring the heart...i now know i would rather been given cancer , porn is worse than cancer...
I married a girl that was offered a job as a professional model in New York, she turned it down to marry me...
I tried many times to conquer that horrible sin but with very little success...for years even after i was saved i could get no victory....
my wife Debbie never once scolded me, argued with me, never did anything but pray for me and love me....she would tell me over and over she would not let me go....she was willing to die to self that i might live....
it was by her obeying scriptures found in scripture I found victory....
when will the members of Yahshua's Body hate the things that Yahweh hates...one thing He outright states in scriptures is Divorce....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
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Member # 7175
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posted
Wives submitting to their husbands is quite different then staying married to a man who looks at porn. If the husband loved her like Jesus loved the Church, the husband would not be looking at porn. Many times when a man is addicted to porn, he begins to expect his wife to do things that degrade her, in the bedroom. We should not judge this woman but pray for her and her husband. Pron is just as hard as drugs to overcome.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
1 Peter 3:1-6
1 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3 Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— 4 rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael Z
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Member # 8389
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
a man must put his wife before himself -- and his lust.
I don't wish divorce on anyone, but this can truly hurt a woman emotionally.
But, I'm sure there is just more to pornographic issues that caused this divorce -- I beleive this may have just beent he final straw.... so to speak.
Yeah, "final straw" seems to summarize this situation well. There is no divorce yet, but I fear it is around the corner.
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
a man must put his wife before himself -- and his lust.
I don't wish divorce on anyone, but this can truly hurt a woman emotionally.
But, I'm sure there is just more to pornographic issues that caused this divorce -- I beleive this may have just beent he final straw.... so to speak.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Michael Z
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posted
I have a friend who's wife discovered he was visiting pornographic web sites. She has left him (and taken two kids with) and I fear she wants a divorce.The Bible makes an adultery exception for allowing divorce http://bible.cc/matthew/5-32.htm , and also in http://bible.cc/matthew/5-28.htm it states that "looking at a woman in lust" is equivalent to adultery. So putting the two together seems to justify divorce.
There is more to this specific case however: The way the wife discovered the pornography was that the husband was having his wife set and maintain a password to a filter program designed to keep the husband accountable. When the computer was accessed remotely via gotomypc, porn images were present, perhaps popups invoked by some visited site. So the husband was "sort of" admitting it in a way. Furthermore, the wife had other issues and complaints about the husband before this pornography issue.
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