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Topic: Did Jesus Preach Paul’s Gospel?
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
PART of that mystery is "Christ in you; the hope of glory"
Yes, what a wonderous thing!
quote:
It is NOT a super "grace" that allows me to be mean, and its ok, or sin and its allright..because it was paid at the cross and no matter what im going to heaven..NO
No one here ever said it was.
You will know them by the fruit they bear.
But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23)
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barrykind
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posted
Carol States:
quote:
I agree, but Paul's revelation was not just about the Gentiles being saved...it was that the Gentiles and Jews were equal, and were made into a new creation in Christ
PART of that mystery is "Christ in you; the hope of glory"
But was made manifest to all the saints and apostles..
It is NOT a super "grace" that allows me to be mean, and its ok, or sin and its allright..because it was paid at the cross and no matter what im going to heaven..NO
No its not !
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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Carol Swenson
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Thank you
quote:
scripture is very clear Pete was the first to receive the revelation of the acceptance of the Gentiles!
I agree, but Paul's revelation was not just about the Gentiles being saved...it was that the Gentiles and Jews were equal, and were made into a new creation in Christ.
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becauseHElives
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posted
Carol that is a very good article ....one objections is.....
quote:
We know that Paul was given a revelation from the risen, glorified Lord that no man had received before Paul.
scripture is very clear Pete was the first to receive the revelation of the acceptance of the Gentiles!
33Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Carol Swenson
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This is not a competition between the teaching of our Lord and the teaching of Paul.
At the time of Paul's conversion, the Lord had declared that he was to be made a minister to the Gentiles, "to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me." Acts 26:18. The angel that appeared to Ananias had said of Paul, "He is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel." Acts 9:15. And Paul himself, later in his Christian experience, while praying in the temple at Jerusalem, had been visited by an angel from heaven, who bade him, "Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles." Acts 22:21.
We know that Paul was given a revelation from the risen, glorified Lord that no man had received before Paul.
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1 Cor 2:7,8] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[Eph 3:3,4] How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery ; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
[Rom 16:25] Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
[Col 4:3] Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
[Eph 5:32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
[Col 1:26,27] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
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While the New Testament speaks of several different mysteries, there is one that stands out in greatness of importance. It is revealed to us by the apostle Paul, and contains the details of God’s grand redemptive plan . I say the details of the plan, because redemption in general is a theme that pervades the whole Bible.
So what exactly was the mystery? That God would send a Messiah to save His people Israel was not a mystery. Neither was it a mystery that Gentiles would be saved . For example, [Isa 42:6] ‘I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;’ . It was even revealed that the Messiah would be a suffering servant in Isaiah 53. What was the great mystery?
What was hidden in the secret counsels of the Almighty was this: that an entirely new creation, made up of a diverse assortment of people including both Jews and Gentiles, possessing incredible spiritual riches (Eph 3:8), would come into existence.
This new creation is described as being in a living, organic union with the resurrected and glorified Lord Jesus Christ. It is called ‘the Body of Christ’, or the ‘Bride of Christ’, or ‘the Church’. It is not an organization, but an organism. The Lord Jesus is the head of this unique organism: [Eph 5:23b] ‘Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body’. [1 Cor 12:27] ‘Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.’
The rules for joining organizations are pretty well defined, but how does one join an organism?
The New Testament says that members enter the Body by a supernatural operation -- by being baptized or immersed into it by the Holy Spirit. (The Greek ‘baptizo‘ means to immerse.) [Gal 3:27] ‘For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.’
This baptism into Christ is not a ceremony involving water (though that should follow), but a work of the Holy Spirit at the instant one is regenerated by faith in the Lord Jesus. It is a supernatural uniting of the believer with the glorified Christ and His body. It is the work of God from start to finish, but accompanied by faith on our part. [1 Cor 12:13] ‘For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.’
This placing of the believer into the Body results in what the apostle Paul meant by the phrase ‘in Christ’. Someone has counted over 150 times in his epistles where he used that terminology to describe the exalted position belonging to Christians. We are wholly identified with the Lord Jesus. It is a glorious event in the life of a believer when it sinks into his heart and mind what it means to be ‘in Christ’! For me personally, it was a life-transforming experience.
The other facet of the great mystery of redemption is this: the Lord Jesus Christ takes up permanent residence in the Christian the moment that he trusts the Savior. [Col 1:27] ‘To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:’ Isn’t that an awesome assertion? The Lord God Almighty, Creator of the heaven and the earth, the great, eternal I AM, indwells each believer! [Rom 8:9] ‘But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his’.
The union is complete: Christ in the believer, and the believer in Christ. Someone has given a crude analogy that, while imperfect, might help illustrate. Consider a bottle in the ocean -- the ocean water is in the bottle, and the bottle is in the ocean. The Lord Jesus alluded to this mutual indwelling just before He was crucified. He said: [John 15:4-5] ‘Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing’.
Note that to realize the full value of this union, we must ‘abide’ in the Lord. ‘Abide’ means to dwell or remain; we are to always be in conscious union with the Lord Jesus.
I referred above to the Church as a new creation. Actually, in the mystery there are two new creations: the individual believer and the Church.
The believer is born spiritually and becomes a new creation when he is baptized into Christ [2 Cor 5:17] ‘Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation : old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new’. (The King James version says ‘new creature’, but ‘new creation’ is more accurate.)
The mystical Body of Christ was created at Pentecost [Acts 2:1-4a] ‘And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost...’.
Any reference to ‘church’ in the Old Testament economy, as in Acts 7:38, implies an assembly of people, not the body of Christ. The word ‘church’ can also refer to an assembly in the NT, as in Paul’s letters to the churches, but the new creation is the ‘Church’ with a capital ‘C’; the Body of Christ and the espoused Bride of Christ: [2 Cor 11:2b] ‘I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ’.
This Body includes all regenerated Christians from Pentecost to the event described in [1 Th 4:16-17] ‘For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord’. The coming of the Groom for His espoused Bride! The greatest marriage ceremony in the history of the universe!
That is the mystery hidden from past ages -- an entirely new organism with the Living Lord Jesus as the head, composed of diverse members each indwelt by the Spirit of Christ.
The key to this incredible work of redemption -- the event that opened the windows of Heaven and enabled the outpouring of God’s grace upon the human race -- is the cross.
http://www.mysteryofgod.net/index.html
It was Paul who taught us important concepts that help us to better understand our position in Christ.
Crucial Concepts
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005273
The question is not did Paul teach different things than Christ taught. The question is what more did Christ teach through Paul?
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barrykind
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Crimson states:
quote:
Did Jesus preach Paul's gospel?
NO
Paul preached Jesus' gospel
if he did not then he preached a false gospel
Amen
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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Caretaker
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John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Luke 22:
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Hebrews 9:
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Matthew 26:
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
30 And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
Crimson,
You are so right. Paul preaches the Gospel of Christ. Why did Christ go by the Old Testament laws while was alive. Because He had not yet shed His precious blood for our sins, God, Himself, tore the curtain between the inter sanctuary and the Holy of Holies. No more would man be under the heavy burden of the law but be saved by GRACE THROUGH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS. If the law could have saved one person, then Jesus would have shed His blood in vain. God forbid, that we should take ourselves out of grace and put ourselves back under the burden of the law.
betty
Amen Sis!!!!!
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Betty Louise
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Crimson,
You are so right. Paul preaches the Gospel of Christ. Why did Christ go by the Old Testament laws while was alive. Because He had not yet shed His precious blood for our sins, God, Himself, tore the curtain between the inter sanctuary and the Holy of Holies. No more would man be under the heavy burden of the law but be saved by GRACE THROUGH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS. If the law could have saved one person, then Jesus would have shed His blood in vain. God forbid, that we should take ourselves out of grace and put ourselves back under the burden of the law.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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crimson
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posted
Did Jesus preach Paul's gospel?
NO
Paul preached Jesus' gospel
if he did not then he preached a false gospel
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I come, not to bring peace, but a sword.
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becauseHElives
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posted
no
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Carol Swenson
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Did you read the responses to this at his blog site?
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