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Author Topic: THE TRIUNITY OF GOD
Betty Louise
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I will pray that God will give you rest.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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Same thing I was thinking. He wasn't here for fellowship, but he has his own site to post his beliefs. Since he thinks that Jesus is a lesser deity than God, he doesn't need to be here.

I was up all night. I need some sleep now. Have a good, good day in His care and keeping.

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Betty Louise
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Thank you Carol. I was thinking this morning about Pix. From reading his posts it is obvious he did not join this board for Christian fellowship but to push his own agenda. He has his own website for him to do just that, so he should stick to that.
bettty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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Thank you too. [Cross] PIX is gone for good.
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Caretaker
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Amen Carol!!!!!

Thank you for taking out the trash last night. Good job Sis.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Carol Swenson
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The Deity of Christ

Witness of the New Testament

According to the Bible Jesus is "God", "Lord", and "Yahweh." Jesus is "worshipped" without reproof or qualification. The Apostle Thomas announced that, having seen the risen Christ, He was "My Lord and My God" - not "one of my Lords" and "one of my Gods." The New Testament places no limitation or restriction on how much honor or devotion one may give to Jesus. In the context of prayer He said "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it." (John 14:14, NASB). Is any creature omnipotent? Is any created being entitled to or capable of hearing the prayers of all men?

The easiest, clearest way to prove the deity of Christ is from the Old Testament.

Isaiah 43:10

"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. (Isaiah 43:10 NASB).

No God or god came into existence before YHWH.

No God or god will come into existence after Him. No one will be rewarded with "godhood." No creature can ever become a God or god.

Jesus cannot be a "created god" or a "lesser god" -- there is NO OTHER GOD.

Isaiah 44:8

"And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any [other] Rock? I know of none." = If Jesus was a created "god" YHWH says He didn't know of him.

We are to be witnesses of this fact; we are to believe and know God and serve God by declaring this to all nations.

http://www.biblicalresources.info/pages/general/deitychrist.html

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Carol Swenson
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The Trinity in the Old Testament

While Trinitarian concepts are more explicitly laid out in the New Testament, they are implicitly revealed in the Old Testament. Clear intimations of Trinitarian concepts in the Hebrew Bible include:

1. The use of plural forms.

Pronouns, where God speaking, uses "us" and "our": Genesis 3:22 Genesis 11:7 Isaiah 6:8. The most important reference is Genesis 1:26-27; it is here where the plurality is used in connection with the very nature of God. This last reference is the most important (and compelling) one because here God uses plural forms in the context of his own "image and likeness."

The plural form for "Lord" used frequently in the Old Testament: 'adonai ("Lord," literally, "my Masters"). The vowel in the last syllable of 'adonai was apparently lengthened by rabbis in the post-New Testament period. This is thought to have been done to sharpen the distinction between earthly lords and the Lord God.

The Old Testament had a singular term for God, Eloah, which they occasionally used, but the vast majority of the time the plural form of God, Elohim, is used throughout the Old Testament. Had there been only be two persons within God, the Hebrews could have used a dual form Elohiayim, which was typically (although not always) used of things that occurred in pairs.

2. Usage of "one" in a composite sense.

Even though the Old Testament teaches that God is "one," (Deuteronomy 6:4) this does not conflict in any way with Trinitarian beliefs. On the contrary, it actually helps to affirm them. One of the most compelling examples in the Old Testament of the composite sense of "one" is found in Genesis 2:24. Two people (created in the "image" of God) become "one flesh" in the marriage union (and thus a sense of the "image" in a composite sense). The use of the Hebrew word for "one" (eXad) in other passages similarly demonstrates that this word means "one entity" rather than a strictly single, solitary thing.

3. Theophanies, where Christ appears in the form of the "Angel (or Messenger) of the Lord."

The Old Testament presents striking examples of a Being who, although He appears in the form of a man, acts and speaks like God and is referred to as God. Mysteriously, He is both identified as God and distinguished from God. We find this in passages such as Genesis 16:7-13; 18-19; 22:11-18; Exodus 3:2-6; 23:20-23; Judges 6:11-14, 20-22; 13:21-23). Note also how Zechariah 12:8 equates God and the Angel of the Lord. These Theophanies were preparatory for the incarnation in that they anticipated the coming of a Heavenly Visitor who would one day be both truly God and man.

4. The "Son" passages:

The Old Testament describes a Being who is uniquely a human-divine Son. In the light of the New Testament we see that Jesus in His Being is the fulfillment of the Son of Man, the Son of God, and the Son-King (of which Solomon was a foreshadowing).

Proverbs 30:4

Isaiah 9:6 He is a son and child, but also the "mighty God."

Psalm 2:7-12 (although the translation of "son" in verse 12 can be disputed) This Psalm describes a Son-King who receives the nations as His inheritance.

Daniel 7:13-14 This passage forms the background behind Christ's use of the Messianic title "Son of Man." Note that the contexts of Psalm 2 and Daniel 7 have identical strands of thought: the inheriting of all the kingdoms of the earth. The word "Son of Man" does not here mean "a mortal man"--one from among the "sons of men." The point here is not that the Person is perfectly human. The significance of the title "Son of Man' in this passage is fourfold:

His exalted personality as the One who comes from heaven and opposes the beastly human powers, which come from earth (Daniel 7:3)

His advent in conjunction with the reappearance of the theophanic glory cloud (7:13),

His free access to the 'One who is an ancient of days' (God the Father, 7:13), and

His universal and everlasting reign (7:14). (J. B. Payne, Theology of the Older Testament, p. 265.)

5. The use of pronouns suggesting more than one Person within God.

The LORD talking, uses both "Me" and "Him" referring to the same Being (Christ) in Zechariah 12:10

The Angel of the Lord speaking, uses both "from Me" and "fearer of God" in referring to the same entity (Genesis 22:12).

6. Passages that identify two Beings as God or LORD (YHWH).

Genesis 19:23 (YHWH in heaven versus YHWH on earth)
Psalm 45:6-7 (God referring to Another as "God")
Zechariah 3:1-2 (YHWH calling upon YHWH: "And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan"

7. The Holy Spirit is linked with God and given attributes of personality.

All three Persons of the Trinity can be seen in Isaiah 63:8-10, but most importantly we see here the personality of the Holy Spirit. He is "vexed, grieved" by disobedience. This verb in Hebrew is always used in conjunction with persons (or God and gods); never of inanimate things.


In the Old Testament the essential components for the doctrine of the Trinity were all laid down. What may have been enigma to the Jews of the Old Testament was revealed in full splendor in the New Testament! In the providence of God working through church history. It was only a matter of time before believers began to systematize and articulate these passages into meaningful theological statements. How wonderful it is to trace the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, from the subtle, germinal forms in the OT to the full blossom of explicit NT truth. As we reflect on the fact of the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ, may we also reflect upon the marvel, mystery, and wonder of the One we worship.

http://www.biblicalresources.info/pages/ot1/trinityot.html

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Carol Swenson
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PIXAPD believes the Lord Jesus is EL GIBBOR, (Mighty God) but not EL SHADDAI (Almighty God) who is the Father and God of Jesus. He believes the doctrine of the Trinity is pagan.

He is wrong.

The Trinity: our one God is eternally existent in three Persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, who are co-equal, co-existent and co-eternal.

[Bible] [Bible] [Bible]

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 (written: 712 BC [Before Christ])

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 (written: 712 BC)

And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people. Luke 7:16

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18

Jesus said:
I and my Father are one. John 10:30

The Jews answered him [Jesus], saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:33

When many were about to stone Jesus for blasphemy (John 10:30-39), He said to them that said he blasphemed "because I said, I am the Son of God?" (John 10:36).

You call Me Teacher and Lord; and ye say well; for so I Am. John 13:13


But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
And Jesus said, I Am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:61-62

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Psalm 110:1

he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." ( John 14:10)

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28

...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:14-17

...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:6

...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

...who [Jesus] is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high. Hebrews 1:2-3

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13

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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by PIXAPD:
JOHN wrote this>>>: 'He who confesses that Yeshua is the messiah has both the Father and the Son...... he who confesses that Yeshua is the Son of God, God dwells in him and he in God'


If you folks cannot confess what the APOSTLES confessed; then as far as I am concerned ...YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIANS

Your opinion is contrary to the entire Word of God, and the True context. You can wrest scriptures from context to support your heresy, but it does not change God's truth one iota.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Betty Louise
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Pixad,
It doesn't matter what you think. Our salvation is in Christ and not you.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Betty Louise
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Very good! Drew.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Caretaker
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. Who is the Savior?

A. God

1. Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.
2. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
3. Jude 1:25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and
power, Both now and forever. Amen.

B. Jesus

1. Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and
Savior Jesus Christ,
2. 2 Peter 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
3. 1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior
of the world.

V. Who is I AM?

A. God

1. Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall
say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

B. Jesus

1. John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
AM."

VI. Who is the Holy One?

A. God

1. Isaiah 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the
LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.
2. Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
3. Isaiah 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
4. Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and
such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that
smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
5. Isaiah 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect
to the Holy One of Israel.
6. Isaiah 29:19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among
men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

B. Jesus

1. Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of
Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
2. Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine
Holy One to see corruption.
3. Acts 3:14-15 "But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to
be granted to you, 15 "and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of
which we are witnesses.

VII. Who is the Shepherd?

A. God

1. Psalms 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2. Ezekiel 34:11-12 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my
sheep, and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is
among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them
out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 25:31-32 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy
angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be
gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd
divideth his sheep from the goats:
2. John 10:11,14 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the
sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Betty Louise
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Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Caretaker
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The Word of God stands and your misguided misinterpretation, ignorance of the WHOLE counsel of God is what will be deposited in the trash.

Jesus is the Creator

Col. 1:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Caretaker
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Delete his posts and send them to the trash where they belong.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by PIXAPD:
Here is MY CONFESSION, before you heretics.


Yeshua is the Messiah, Yeshua is the Son of God

John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

Col. 2:

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Carol Swenson
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Do you guys want me to delete his posts? I'll take a vote. I vote yes.
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Betty Louise
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Thank you Carol. [hug]
Betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
David has been notified

Excellent!!!

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Carol Swenson
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David has been notified
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Caretaker
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PIXAPD is a heretic, a declared adversary and spreading false teaching. He should be banned.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Carol Swenson
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PIXAPD, don't teach against the Trinity

The Christian BBS is an inter-denominational ministry, however, we are a Christian ministry. While we encourage every believer to study scripture for him or herself and to question and seek answers, we must draw a line at some point as to what we find acceptable in the teachings on our board. We have outlined the basic beliefs of Christianity, the non-negotiable factors of our faith at

http://www.christian-chats.net/statement.htm

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Betty Louise
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WOW again, we disagree. How surprising!!
God is a Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

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Barry44
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There is one God in three persons. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven. Three distinct beings and yet still one, the Father, the Son and the Spirit. The Father is the creator,the Son is the agent, The Spirit is the power of the Father and the Son. Jesus replied, "All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. [youpi]

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Fuel temp o2

love faith hope.

an engineers dream.

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That is all.....

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Old Testament (The Hebrew Scriptures, or Tanach):

EL: God ("mighty, strong, prominent") used 250 times in the OT See Gen. 7:1, 28:3, 35:11; Nu. 23:22; Josh. 3:10; 2 Sam. 22:31, 32; Neh. 1:5, 9:32; Isa. 9:6; Ezek. 10:5. El is linguistically equivalent to the Moslem "Allah," but the attributes of Allah in Islam are entirely different from those of the God of the Hebrews.

ELAH is Aramaic, "god." Elah appears in the Hebrew Bible in Jer. 10:11 (which is in Aramaic, and is plural, "gods"). In Daniel (the Aramaic sections) Elah is used both of pagan gods, and of the true God, also plural. Elah is equivalent to the Hebrew Eloah which some think is dual; Elohim is three or more. The gods of the nations are called "elohim." The origin of Eloah is obscure. Elohim is the more common plural form of El. Eloah is used 41 times in Job between 3:4 and 40:2, but fewer than 15 times elsewhere in the OT.

ELOHIM: God (a plural noun, more than two, used with singular verbs); Elohim occurs 2,570 times in the OT, 32 times in Gen. 1. God as Creator, Preserver, Transcendent, Mighty and Strong. Eccl., Dan. Jonah use Elohim almost exclusively. See Gen. 17:7, 6:18, 9:15, 50:24; I Kings 8:23; Jer. 31:33; Isa. 40:1.

EL SHADDAI: God Almighty or "God All Sufficient." 48 times in the OT, 31 times in Job. First used in Gen. 17:1, 2. (Gen. 31:29, 49:24, 25; Prov. 3:27; Micah 2:1; Isa. 60:15, 16, 66:10-13; Ruth 1:20, 21) In Rev. 16:7, "Lord God the Almighty." The Septuagint uses Greek "ikanos" meaning "all-sufficient" or "self-sufficient." The idols of the heathen are called "sheddim."

ADONAI: Lord in our English Bibles (Capital letter 'L ', lower case, 'ord') (Adonai is plural, the sing. is "adon"). "Master'' or "Lord" 300 times in the OT always plural when referring to God, when sing. the reference is to a human lord. Used 215 times to refer to men. First use of Adonai, Gen. 15:2. (Ex. 4:10; Judges 6:15; 2 Sam. 7:18-20; Ps. 8, 114:7, 135:5, 141:8, 109:21-28). Heavy use in Isaiah (Adonai Jehovah). 200 times by Ezekiel. Ten times in Dan. 9.

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JEHOVAH: LORD in our English Bibles (all capitals). Yahweh is the covenant name of God. Occurs 6823 times in the OT First use Gen. 2:4 (Jehovah Elohim). From the verb "to be", havah, similar to chavah (to live), "The Self-Existent One," "I AM WHO I AM" or 'I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE" as revealed to Moses at the burning bush, Ex.3. The name of God, too sacred to be uttered, abbreviated ( . . . . ) or written "YHWH" without vowel points. The tetragrammaton. Josh., Judges, Sam., and Kings use Jehovah almost exclusively. The love of God is conditioned upon His moral and spiritual attributes. (Dan. 9:14; Ps. 11:7; Lev. 19:2; Hab. 1:12). Note Deut. 6:4, 5 known to Jews as the Sh'ma uses both Jehovah and Elohim to indicate one God with a plurality of persons.

JEHOVAH-JIREH: "The Lord will Provide." Gen. 22:14. From "jireh" ("to see" or "to provide," or to "foresee" as a prophet.) God always provides, adequate when the times come.

JEHOVAH-ROPHE: "The Lord Who Heals" Ex. 15:22-26. From "rophe" ("to heal"); implies spiritual, emotional as well as physical healing. (Jer. 30:17, 3:22; Isa. 61:1) God heals body, soul and spirit; all levels of man's being.

JEHOVAH-NISSI: "The Lord Our Banner." Ex. 17:15. God on the battlefield, from word which means "to glisten," "to lift up," See Psalm 4:6.

JEHOVAH-M'KADDESH: "The Lord Who Sanctifies" "To make whole, set apart for holiness." The Lord says: "Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the Lord your God. Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the Lord, who makes you holy." (Leviticus 20:7-8)

JEHOVAH-SHALOM: "The Lord Our Peace" Judges 6:24. "Shalom" translated "peace" 170 times means "whole," "finished," "fulfilled," "perfected." Related to "well," welfare." Deut. 27:6; Dan. 5:26; I Kings 9:25 8:61; Gen. 15:16; Ex. 21:34, 22:5, 6; Lev. 7:11-21. Shalom means that kind of peace that results from being a whole person in right relationship to God and to one's fellow man.

SHEPHERD: Psa. 23, 79:13, 95:7, 80:1, 100:3; Gen. 49:24; Isa. 40:11.

JUDGE: Psa. 7:8, 96:13.

JEHOVAH ELOHIM: "LORD God" Gen. 2:4; Judges 5:3; Isa. 17:6; Zeph. 2:9; Psa. 59:5, etc.

JEHOVAH-TSIDKENU "The Lord Our Righteousness" Jer. 23:5, 6, 33:16. From "tsidek" (straight, stiff, balanced - as on scales - full weight, justice, right, righteous, declared innocent.) God our Righteousness.

JEHOVAH-ROHI: "The Lord Our Shepherd" Psa. 23, from "ro'eh" (to pasture).

JEHOVAH-SHAMMAH: "The Lord is There" (Ezek. 48:35).

JEHOVAH-SABAOTH: "The Lord of Hosts" The commander of the angelic host and the armies of God. Isa. 1:24; Psa. 46:7, 11; 2 Kings 3:9-12; Jer. 11:20 (NT: Rom. 9:29; James 5:4, Rev. 19: 11-16).


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EL ELYON: 'Most High" (from "to go up") Deut. 26:19, 32:8; Psa. 18:13; Gen. 14:18; Nu. 24:16; Psa. 78:35, 7:17, 18:13, 97:9, 56:2, 78:56, 18:13; Dan. 7:25, 27; Isa. 14:14.

ABIR: 'Mighty One', ("to be strong") Gen. 49:24; Deut. 10:17; Psa. 132:2, 5; Isa. 1:24, 49:26, 60:1.

BRANCH: (tsemach), The Branch: Zech. 3:8, 6:12; Isa. 4:2; Jer. 23:5, 33:15.

KADOSH: "Holy One" Psa. 71:22; Isa. 40:25, 43:3, 48:17. Isaiah uses the expression "the Holy One of Israel" 29 times.

SHAPHAT: "Judge" Gen. 18:25

EL ROI: "God of Seeing" Hagar in Gen. 16:13. The God Who opens our eyes.

KANNA: "Jealous" (zealous). Ex. 20:5, 34:14; Deut. 5:9; Isa. 9:7; Zech. 1:14, 8:2.

PALET: "Deliverer" Psa. 18:2.

YESHUA: (Yeshua) "Savior" ("he will save"). Isa. 43:3. Jesus is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "Joshua." The latter is a contraction of Je-Hoshua. ("Christ", the anointed one is equivalent to the Hebrew Maschiah, or Messiah).

GAOL: "Redeemer" (to buy back by paying a price). Job 19:25; For example, the antitype corresponding to Boaz the Kinsman-Redeemer in the Book of Ruth.

MAGEN: "Shield" Psa. 3:3, 18:30.

STONE: (eben) Gen. 49:24

EYALUTH: "Strength" Psa. 22:19.

TSADDIQ: "Righteous One" Psa. 7:9.

EL-OLAM: "Everlasting God" (God of everlasting time) Gen. 21:33; Psa. 90:1-3, 93:2; Isa. 26:4.

EL-BERITH: "God of the Covenant" Used of Baal in Judges 9:46. Probably used originally to refer to the God of israel.

EL-GIBHOR: Mighty God (Isa. 9:6)

TSUR: "God our Rock" Deut. 32:18; Isa. 30:29.

Malachi calls Messiah "The Sun of Righteousness" (Malachi 4:2).

Isaiah calls Messiah "Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God (El Gibhor), Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Isa. 9:6).

'Attiq Yomin (Aramaic): "Ancient of Days," Dan. 7:9, 13, 22.

MELEKH: "King" Psa. 5:2, 29:10, 44:4, 47:6-8, 48:2, 68:24, 74:12, 95:3, 97:1, 99:4, 146:10; Isa. 5:1, 5, 41:21, 43:15, 44:6; 52:7, 52:10.

"The Angel of the Lord: " Gen. 16:7ff, 21:17, 22:11, 15ff, 18:1-19:1, 24:7, 40, 31:11-13, 32:24-30; Ex. 3:6, 13:21, Ezek. 1:10-13. Seen in the theophanies, or pre-incarnate appearances of the Son of God in the OT (See I Cor. 10:3 NT).

FATHER: 2 Sam. 7:14-15; Psa. 68:5; Isa. 63:16, 64:8; Mal. 1:6.

THE FIRST AND LAST: Isa. 44:6, 48:12.


IMMANUEL, or EMMANUEL, or IMANUEL: "God with us." Isaiah 7:14, 8:8. Quoted in Matthew 1:23.

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New Testament Scriptures, (Greek):

KURIOS: (kurios) "Lord" Found some 600 times in the NT.

DESPOTES: (despotes) "Lord" 5 times: Lu. 2:29; Acts 4:24; 2 Pet. 2:1; Jude 4; Rev. 6:10.

THEOS: (yeos) "God" (equivalent to the Hebrew Elohim), 1,000 times in the NT. In the NT all the persons of the trinity are called "God" at one time or another.

I AM: Jesus upset his generation especially when He said, "Before Abraham was, I AM," John 8:58. Note also his claim to be Jehovah in such phrases as "I AM the Light of the world," "the bread of life," living water," "the Resurrection and the Life," "the Way, Truth and the Life" in John's Gospel. From the Hebrew OT verb "to be" signifying a Living, Intelligent, Personal Being.

THEOTES: "Godhead" Col. 2:9; Rom. 1:20.

HUPSISTOS: "Highest" Mt. 21:9.

SOTER: (soter) "Savior" Luke 1:4 7.

WORD: (logos) John 1:1ff

ALMIGHTY: (pantokrator) 2 Cor. 6:18, Revelation, 9t, e.g. 19:6.


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JESUS: Derived from the Hebrew "Joshua" (Y'shua) or "Je-Hoshua" meaning JEHOVAH IS SALVATION.

CHRIST: is equivalent to the Hebrew 'Messiah' (Meshiach), "The Anointed One."

Other NT Titles for Jesus: Shepherd of the Sheep; Master; King of kings; Lord of lords; Bishop and Guardian of our Souls; Daystar, Deliverer, Advocate, Last (or Second) Adam, Ancient of Days, Branch, Chief Cornerstone, Immanuel, First Born, Head of the Body, Physician, Rock, Root of Jesse, Stone, Potentate; Chief Apostle; Great High Priest; Pioneer and Perfecter of our Faith (or Author and Finisher); Lamb of God; Lamb Slain before the Foundation of the World; Lord God Almighty.


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LOGOS: "The Word of God" John l; Rev. 19:13.

SOPHIA: "The Wisdom of God," referring to Christ, refers back to Proverbs (I Cor. 1,2)

Father, Son, Holy Spirit: Christian orthodoxy has always understood God to be One God in Three Persons (Elohim). In The NT each person of the godhead is called "God" and "Lord" at least once.

Names for the Holy Spirit: Counselor; Comforter; Baptizer; Advocate; Strengthener; Sanctifier; Spirit of Christ (not the same as the spirit of Christ); Seven-Fold Spirit (Rev.); Spirit of Truth; Spirit of Grace; Spirit of Mercy; Spirit of God; Spirit of Holiness; Spirit of Life. Symbolized in OT and NT by (l) breath or wind; (2) fire; (3) water; (4) oil; (5) light; (6) a dove.

The Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ: Most Study Bibles have notes which give references to the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Here is what the Scofield Study Bible Notes say:

(1) In the intimations and explicit predictions of the O.T. (a) The theophanies intimate the appearance of God in human form, and His ministry thus to man (Gen. 16:7-13; 18:2-23. especially v. 17; 32. 28 with Hos. 12:3-5; Ex. 3:2-14). (b) The Messiah is expressly declared to be the Son of God (Psa. 2:2-9), and God (Psa. 45:6, 7 with Heb. 1:8,9; Psa. 110. with Mt. 22:44; Acts 2:34 and Heb. 1:13; Psa. 110.4 with Heb. 5:6; 6. 20:7. 17-21; and Zech. 6:13). (c) His virgin birth was foretold as the means through which God could be "Immanuel," God with us (Isa. 7:13, 14 with Mt. 1:22, 23). (d) The Messiah is expressly invested with the divine names (Isa. 9:6, 7). (e) In a prophecy of His death He is called Jehovah's "fellow" (Zech. 13:7 with Mt. 26:31). (f) His eternal being is declared (Mic. 5:2 with Mt. 2:6; John 7:42).

(2) Christ Himself affirmed His deity. (a) He applied to Himself the Jeho-vistic I AM. (The pronoun "he" is not in the Greek; cf. John 8:24; John 8:56-58. The Jews correctly understood this to be our Lord's claim to full deity [v. 59]. See, also, John 10:33; 18:4-6, where, also "he" is not in the original.) (b) He claimed to be the Adonai of the O.T. (Mt. 22:42-45. See Gen. 15:2, note). (c) He asserted His identity with the Father (Mt. 28:19; Mk. 14:62; John 10:30; that the Jews so understood Him is shown by vs. 31, 32; John 14:8, 9; 17. 5). (d) He exercised the chief prerogative of God (Mk. 2:5-7; Lk. 7:48-50). (e) He asserted omnipresence (Mt. 18:20; John 3:13); omniscience (John 11:11-14, when Jesus was fifty miles away; Mk. 11:6-8); omnipotence (Mt. 28:18; Lk. 7:14; John 5:21-23; 6. is); mastery over nature, and creative power (Lk. 9:16. 17; John 2:9, 10:28). (f) He received and approved human worship (Mt. 14:33; 28: 9, John 20: 28, 29).

(3) The N.T. writers ascribe divine titles to Christ (John 1:1; 20. 28; Acts 20:28; Rom. 1:4; 9:5; 2 Thess. 1:12; 1 Tim. 3:16; Tit. 2:23; Heb. 1:8; 1 John 5:20).

(4) The N.T. writers ascribe divine perfections and attributes to Christ (e.g. Mt. 11:28; 18:20, 28:20; John 1:2, 2:23-25; 3:13; 5:17; 21:17; Heb. 1:3, 11, 12 with Heb. 13:8; Rev. 1:8,17,18; 2:23; 11. 17; 22:13).

(5) The N.T. writers ascribe divine works to Christ (John 1:3. 16:17, Col. 1:16, 17; Heb. 1:3).

(6) The N.T. writers teach that supreme worship should be paid to Christ (Acts 7:59, 60; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 13:14, Phil. 2:9, 10; Heb. 1:6; Rev. 1:5, 6; 5. 12, 13).

(7) The holiness and resurrection of Christ prove His deity (John 8:46; Rom. 1:4).

Philippians 2 is the great Chapter on the kenosis or self-emptying of the Lord Jesus Christ when He became a man. His equality with the Father as the Son of God is stated here.

Note also John 5:18 "This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God."

Romans 9:5 "...to them (the Jewish race) belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Messiah (who is) God who is over all, blessed for ever. Amen."

ALPHA AND OMEGA: The First and the Last, The Beginning and The End (Rev. 1).

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Carol Swenson
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God
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barrykind
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quote:
What is God's name Carol?




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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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Carol states:


quote:
Trinity and triunity are synonyms; they mean the same thing.

The Trinity is a mystery the human mind cannot comprehend.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three and one at the same time.

What is God's name Carol

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Carol Swenson
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Trinity and triunity are synonyms; they mean the same thing.

The Trinity is a mystery the human mind cannot comprehend.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three and one at the same time.

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Betty Louise
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Christians do not preach three Gods but God in three person- The Trinity. Barry is so against Christian Churches that he spreads lies about God's Church.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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yahsway
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If I may, i think what Barry means, and Barrykind, please correct me if i am wrong, but i believe you to say that you believe in a God that is Triune meaning 3 in One as out God is One God, but not trinity meaning 3 "different" Gods, is that correct?
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Betty Louise
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Barry you disagree with most all the teaching of Christian Churches. I often wonder if you even read the same Bible as the rest of us read.

I believe in the Holy Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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barrykind
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Good thread, good posts...

Far above my limited knowledge......

I do see a "trinuity" so to speak, but not a "trinity" that is basically taught by "churchianity"

[hug]

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Carol Swenson
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Atoms are the building blocks of matter. Matter is anything that has mass and takes up space (volume). All matter is made up of atoms. The atom has a nucleus, which contains particles of positive charge (protons) and particles of neutral charge (neutrons). Surrounding the nucleus of an atom are shells of electrons - small negatively charged particles. These shells are actually different energy levels and within the energy levels, the electrons orbit the nucleus of the atom.

Matter is energy in a differnt form E=MC2 (squared)

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Thunderz7
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I know that YHWH is one GOD who is Triune,
I agree with the article on space and time, but
matter isn't "motion, energy and phenomena";
matter is solid, liquid and gas.

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WildB
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by Russell S. Miller

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1).

Have you ever considered that God's image is stamped upon all creation? The whole universe bears the image of God. Just ask yourself what the universe is made of. It bears the image of its Creator.

The Universe is made of three elements: Time, Space, and Matter. And each one of these is a triunity in itself:

Time is Past, Present, and Future.

Space is Length, Width, and Height.

Matter is Energy, Motion, and Phenomena.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

"So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them" (Gen.1:26,27).

When God created man, He said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Gen.1:26). Paul the Apostle tells us that man is "...spirit, soul, and body..." yet one man (IThes.5:23)! In John 1:1 the Lord Jesus Christ is called, The Word. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God" (John 1:1,2). In I John 5:7 we read most clearly these words concerning the Trinity: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

It's a shame the New World translation leaves these verses out because, not only does nature itself confirm the Triunity of God, but the Bible also clearly declares that God--God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, three Persons, yet one God--stamped His "image" and "likeness" upon all creation. In Colossians 2:9 the Deity of "the Man Christ Jesus" is confirmed: "For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

Much, much more could be said on a subject so involved as the Triunity of God.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him" (ICor.8:6).

"...and no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost" (ICor.12:3).

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That is all.....

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