Christian Message Boards: What is His name and His Sons Name

This version of the message boards has closed.
Please click below to go to the new Christian BBS website.

New Message Boards - Click Here

You can still search for the old message here.

| | search | faq | forum home

»	Christian Message Boards » Bible Studies » Bible Topics & Study » What is His name and His Sons Name (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Author

Topic: What is His name and His Sons Name

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

The New Testament was written by the Apostles in Greek, and they called Him Iēsou.

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

Romans 8:12-17 (NASB)
So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

quote:
But we humans must try to define things in our own way, not the way GOD intended. That is why Jesus said “Many will read the scriptures, but will not understand what they read.”

What?

John 14:25-26 (NASB)
"These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you.
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

1 Corinthians 2:10-11 (NASB)
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 2:16 (NASB)
For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

John316
New Member
Member # 10543

posted

I will follow the teachings of GOD's son, Jesus. He called him Father or GOD. I do not know not claim to know GOD on a first name bases, since he is not human, and therefore I will not come to him as such. If the Queen's first name was Mary, I am sure no one would walk up to her and say "Hi Mary, how are you?" Why? Out of respect...and she is human. So why are we so quick to call GOD by any other name??

Let me put a spin on a human phrase written by Shakespeare…”GOD by any other name is still GOD”. GOD himself said “I am the Lord your GOD”, “I am the GOD of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” I do not remember GOD himself using any other name. But we humans must try to define things in our own way, not the way GOD intended. That is why Jesus said “Many will read the scriptures, but will not understand what they read.”

Posts: 2 | From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2013 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

"redemptive heart of God "?

Really!

You not only Know His name but can read Gods heart?

Wow! The only thing I can find is that it repenteth him , not his heart?

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
1 Samuel 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

repenteth

Definitions
Wiktionary
v. archaic third-person singular Third-person singular simple present indicative form of repent.

re·demp·tive
/riˈdemptiv/
Adjective
Acting to save someone from error or evil: "redemptive love".

Sorry I really dont think you have that info in your suit pocket to Tell another man Gods Heart let alone His name.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

Job 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?
36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

[cool_shades]

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

eprom61
New Member
Member # 10518

posted

4. Yahuah is God’s Celebration Name
When Moses met God at the burning bush, he asked curious question:

And Moses said to God, Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they may say to me, What is His name? What do I say to them?' Exodus 3:13

The query I would like to pose is: why did Moses ask this question in the first place? I solicited a reaction from my son and he thought it might have been because Moses knew of so many different gods in Egypt, and after 400 years in captivity, the Israelites no longer retained the name of their forefather’s God. Interesting point, that I’m sure lots of people might have already considered . . . but probably not. Moses named his second son Eliezer, a theophoric name meaning El is help. This is the very El name in Exodus 6:3 that God says is the name by which He appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So the Israelites did retain this name, and Moses demonstrated that he himself knew about it by naming his second son Eliezer.

Think about the unique way by which God manifested His presence at the burning bush that prompted Moses to ask this question. Just earlier in Exodus 3:2, it states that, “The angel of Yahuah appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush.” Moses wasn’t talking to a burning bush. He was interacting with a messenger of God in the midst of this burning bush. And just as Sampson’s father Manoah had asked the angel of Yahuah what his name was in Judges 13:17, Moses may have felt peculiar but at ease enough with the human form of this Angel to ask the question, by what name for God should he take to the Israelites.

As it turned out, this wouldn’t be the only incident where Moses interacted with this angel. In fact, this particular manifestation of God’s presence, demonstrated by the messenger of Yahuah inside the mysterious fire that would guide Moses and the Israelites from the time they leave Egypt, to their arrival in the Promised Land. Both this angel of Yahuah and the pillar of cloud & fire are seen concurrently with each other for the first time in Exodus 14.

“The angel of God, who had been going before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them.” Exodus 14:19

There is something very special about this angel of God that guards and guides the people of Israel as a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. He actually has the name of Yahuah IN HIM:

“Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.” (Exodus 23:20, 21)

There’s something else that’s absolutely remarkable about this angel of Yahuah, who appears as a pillar of cloud and fire. We find this angel preceding Moses up Mount Sinai in the following chapter of Exodus and manifesting the glory of Yahuah at the top of the mountian. “The glory of Yahuah rested on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it for six days; and on the seventh day He called to Moses from the midst of the cloud. And to the eyes of the sons of Israel the appearance of the glory of Yahuah was like a consuming fire on the mountain top.” (Exodus 24:16, 17)

How do we know it was this same pillar of cloud and fire that led the Israelites in the wilderness that manifested the presence of Yahuah over Mount Sinai?
• All of the references to this Hebrew term for cloud (Strongs #H6050) in Exodus refer to a supernatural cloud that represented the guiding presence of God.
• Moses and the elders could only have ascended up the mountain once the pillar of cloud / fire lifted from the camp. Exodus 40:36, Numbers 9:22, 10:34
• It was this very angel, enshrouded by cloud and fire that descended on the tabernacle and filled it with the glory of God’s presence. Exodus 40:34, 35, Numbers 9:15, 16:42, Deuteronomy 31:15,

And this manifestation of God’s glory was not just reserved for Mount Sinai and wilderness tabernacle. We find this same cloud of God’s glory filling Solomon’s Temple in 1Kings 8:10,11 and Ezekiel’s temple in Ezekiel 10:3, 4.

So what’s the point? Clearly, this angel of God, who appeared within the fire of the burning bush, and the pillar of cloud & fire throughout the Old Testament is a significant character in scripture, but what does this all have to do with why you and I should call on God’s sacred name? The reason we walked through this brief topical study of the angel in the burning bush will be apparent shortly, but for now, let’s first reflect on God’s response to Moses’ question.

“Therefore you shall say to the sons of Israel, Yahuah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER, and THIS IS MY CELEBRATION NAME TO ALL GENERATIONS”

Resisting the temptation to write a commentary on this deeply significant passage, we’ll simply ask you to consider two simple questions:

1. Is there anything about the statement, “This is my name forever, and this is my celebration name to all generations” that would lead you to believe that God ever wanted us to stop using this name?
2. Since this is God’s celebration (zêker Strong’s #2143) name, why wouldn’t every believer rejoice with the prospect of releasing His true name as an act of love and worship to the one who redeemed us?

We’re just scratching the surface on this study, but we’ll make just one more final observation about our angel in the burning bush to tie Him together with this imperative God gave to celebrate Him by using His sacred name. Are you ready for this? This messenger of God in the burning bush and the pillar of cloud & fire would usher in the manifest presence or the glory of God as Moses and the Israelites called on and worshiped the sacred name of God.

“Yahuah descended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name of Yahuah.” Exodus 34:5

And all the Levitical singers, Asaph, Heman, Jeduthun, and their sons and kinsmen, clothed in fine linen, with cymbals, harps and lyres, standing east of the altar, and with them one hundred and twenty priests blowing trumpets in unison when the trumpeters and the singers were to make themselves heard with one voice to praise and to glorify Yahuah, and when they lifted up their voice accompanied by trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and when they praised Yahuah saying, "He indeed is good for His lovingkindness is everlasting," then the house, the house of Yahuah, was filled with a cloud, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of Yahuah filled the house of God. 2Ch 5:12 - 14

This is God’s celebration name because God’s glory is manifested when His children worship and call on His name Yahuah. I believe this angel in the burning bush was actually a theophany, or a pre-incarnate appearance of MeshiYah, and as we utter the Father’s name Yahuah, we are calling on the redemptive heart of God and manifest the glory of His son into our here and now.
[I][/I]

--------------------
Seek First His Kingdom

Posts: 6 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2013 | IP: Logged |

eprom61
New Member
Member # 10518

posted

There is a drama that happened in the early church that is rarely reflected on. When Constantine made Christianity a state religion in Rome, he placed all the priests and Bishops in positions of power who had been loyal to Rome by handing over Christians and Christian scriptures to the Roman authorities. The Doniton church in North Africa objected, suggesting that these leaders were apostate and unfit for leadership. Constantine in turn sent troops to North Africa to murder and disperse the Doniton church leadership. The Roman Catholic church then went through one ingrafting of paganism after another and the names we now use for the savior are vestiges of that era where the purposes of the true church were sown with weeds of paganism.

The word Jesus is an altered variant of Old English word Iesus - in fact the 1611 King James bible didn't have any letter "J"s at all. Iesus was a transliteration of the Greek word Iesous, which is an altered variant of the ancient Greek word Ihsous used in the Septuagint. Ihsous was a transliteration of the Hebrew word Yahushah (Strong's H3091) or Joshua, which means "Yah" is salvation. So the term Jesus is a really just a contorted non-translation that really doesn't mean anything. But it comes from the Hebrew term that only has one letter difference from the Fathers name Yahuah and means Yah is salvation. So when the Son says in the Gospel of John that He came in the Father's name, he really did come in the Father's name.

Christ does mean "to anoint" and that is why it was used to translate the term MashiYah. But it refers to anointing a diseased portion of skin or a wound with medical ointment. What is disconcerting about this term is that it was a medical practice at that time that was absolutely intertwined with mysticism & magic (which-craft). Also, it is the term given to Mithrais, as in Christ Mithrais or good Mithrais. The Mithraic cult was the religion of the Roman aristocracy and the Roman army at that time. In fact Mithrais burthday was celibrated on December 25 and the Vatican now resides over top of a Mithraic temple.

MashiYah on the other hand refers to the anointing of one's head - unto kingship. It refers to the specific king/priest role that "The MashiYah" would assume as the king of Israel and Chief Priest (Melchizedek) over the church. This word should have never been translated, but is all part of how our true spiritual legacy and connection to Israel was stollen from us.

--------------------
Seek First His Kingdom

Posts: 6 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2013 | IP: Logged |

eprom61
New Member
Member # 10518

posted

We call on Yah’s true name to set Him apart from every other false idol and god

The Israelites of the Old Testament didn’t need to travel far to find people worshiping other gods. The Canaanites who had entrenched themselves in Shem’s inheritance, the land now titled to Shem’s descendent Israel, worshiped a plethora of idols. And the neighboring city-states and nations surrounding them bowed down to pantheons of countless faults gods. Today is no different. The demons that inhabited these ancient idols have simply manifested themselves in different forms such as: substance abuse, celebrity, pornography, materialism, and nationalism, which are all examples of false gods people worship. So when did Yah change his mind? When did he stop wanting to be known as Yahuah, separate and distinct from every other name. It never happened! Yah requires His name to be set-apart, and tied together with the covenant promises He made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He is Yahuah, the one true living God.

Therefore behold, I am going to make them know - This time I will make them know My power and My might; And they shall know that My name is Yahuah. - Jeremiah 16:21

I am Yahuah, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images. - Isaiah 42:8

But could this name, the name Yah commanded His covenant people to set apart from every other idol, god or deity, simply be expressed by the term lord and the Greek word Kurious it is translated from? Impossible! This very same title, or veneration offered to the pantheistic deities during the recording of the Old Testament scriptures was expressed by the term Baal, as in Baal Zebub (Lord Zebub), Baal Peor (Lord Peor), and Baal Berith (Lord Berith). Why would Yah espouse a generic name that was used as a title for all the Canaanite faults god at that time when He purposed to set His name apart? It’s really an unsettling point, powerfully expressed by the following passage:

“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, ‘I had a dream, I had a dream!’ How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart, who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal?
Jeremiah 23:25–27

It is His name Yahuah He intends to set apart and make great – not a generic title used everywhere.

“For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is pure; for My name will be great among the nations,” says Yahuah of hosts. - Malachi 1:11

--------------------
Seek First His Kingdom

Posts: 6 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2013 | IP: Logged |

eprom61
New Member
Member # 10518

posted

The word Jesus doesn't really mean anything does it Bill. It's really just a mottled version of an English transliteration of the Greek derivation of a Hebrew transliteration of the word Yahushah or what we call Joshua. I can see earlier in this thread that some have wrongfully that Jesus means Jehovah saves, but this is really just being intellectually dishonest - there were no "J" at al in the 1611 King James, so neither the word Jesus or the falsely rendered Jehovah existed before 300 years ago. The term Jesus has gone through so many contortions through history, it has been rendered utterly meaningless.

--------------------
Seek First His Kingdom

Posts: 6 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2013 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name [/b]JESUS.[/b]
Acts 4
1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
5 And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes,
6 And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.
7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

[cool_shades]

1 Chronicles 29:11 Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

eprom61
New Member
Member # 10518

posted

Considering the sear volume of scripture dedicated to exhorting God’s people: to remember His name, to set apart His name, to revere His name, and to cry out to His sacred name for deliverance, it often seems surprising to me to discover how indifferent so many Christian’s are to this message. Added to this quantitative measure of scripture on this topic, is the force of weight so many of these passages bring to bear on this topic. God’s word is unambiguous and absolutely compelling in this matter and yet, we find astonishing over and again, obstinate objection from so much of the church. You would think the church would at least understand why we hold the conviction we do toward God’s sacred name, but instead we find vitriol and poisonous attacks from much of the church, who willfully musters accusations of heresy and betrayal of the message of the gospel against those of us who only want to glorify and revere God’s sacred name out of our love for Yah and desire to obey His Living word. To those accusing critics, he following few examples are a bit of an embarrassment. Why do we want to call God by His one true sacred name? Because He commands it!

Glory in His holy name; Let the heart of those who see Yahuah be glad. Ascribe to Yahuah the glory due His name; Bring an offering, and come before Him; Worship Yahuah in holy array. - 1Chronicles 16:10, 29

A Psalm of David. Bless Yahuah, O my soul, And all that is within me, bless His holy name. - Psalm 103:1

My holy name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let My holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations will know that I am Yahuah, the Holy One in Israel. Therefore thus says Yahuah GOD, “Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name. - Ezekiel 39:7, 25

“If you do not listen, and if you do not take it to heart to give honor to My name,” says Yahuah of hosts, “then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings; and indeed, I have cursed them already, because you are not taking it to heart. “Behold, I am going to rebuke your offspring, and I will spread refuse on your faces, the refuse of your feasts; and you will be taken away with it. “Then you will know that I have sent this commandment to you, that My covenant may continue with Levi,” says Yahuah of hosts. “My covenant with him was one of life and peace, and I gave them to him as an object of reverence; so he revered Me and stood in awe of My name. - Malachi 2:2-5

Then those who feared Yahuah talked with each other, and Yahuah listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in His presence concerning those who feared Yahuah and honored His name. “They will be mine,” says Yahuah Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him.” - Malachi 3:16–17

“This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name - Matthew 6:9

--------------------
Seek First His Kingdom

Posts: 6 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2013 | IP: Logged |

eprom61
New Member
Member # 10518

posted

quote:

Lately, I have noticed that there are many using the form "Yahuah" or "Yahuwah" based on the fact that the name יהודה "Yahudah/Yehudah" (Judah) contains the same letters as with the exception of the ד Daleth (D) being added (Hebrew reads from right to left). In other words, Yahweh's name contains (Yod Heh Waw Heh) and the name of one of the sons of Israel (Judah) is יהודה (Yod Heh Waw Daleth Heh.)

They say that the Heavenly Father's name can be "made simple" by learning that since there is only one letter difference between the two names, we can learn the pronunciation of the Heavenly Father's name by looking at how Judah's name is pronounced in Hebrew.
[/QB]

Some good information throughout this thread Barry - and you kept your head while some called you all kinds of nasty things.

I'm not sure if you are still active in this forum, but I would like to comment / seek dialogue on the issue of how you would pronounce God's sacred name.

The way Judah is pronounced in the Biblical Hebrew text is not the only evidence for pronouncing "The Name" Yahuah. All the theophoric names ending in Yahu pronounce the Hebrew letter waw in it's vowel form. Also, Favius Josephus stated that "The Name" was made up of 4 vowels.

In fact, there are 9 or 10 solid evidences that would suggest that God's sacred name is not Yahweh, with the waw in its consonant form, but pronounced Yahuah with the waw in it's vowel form. A good site to review all these arguments is:
http://www.name-above-every-name.com

--------------------
Seek First His Kingdom

Posts: 6 | From: Austin, Texas | Registered: Jan 2013 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

ENOUGH SAID !

[thumbsup2]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

RESTORATION OF THE SACRED NAME

Why were the Sacred Names removed from the Scriptures? - 7000 times in the Old Testament and 1000 times in the New Testament? The Restoration thereof is flooding the world - You can share in it also!

The use of the Sacred Name by Commentators, preachers and in special Sacred Name Bible publications, have been rapidly increasing over the last few decades. So intensive has this increase of knowledge been, that the use of the Hebrew or Jewish Names of The Most High and the Messiah, have become almost common domain in religious education and institutions and amongst dedicated worshippers.

According to Jewish Orthodox tradition, the Sacred Name is not to be uttered and accordingly, the form "G-d " is used in writing or printing. In place of pronouncing the Sacred Name in prayer, worship and discussion, the form "Adonai" (the Hebrew for 'Lord') is used.

With due respect to our Jewish readers and to the Almighty, we teach, use and print the Sacred Name for the following reasons, which we feel do override all other considerations:

To identify and accordingly exalt the bearer of this Name as the PERSONAL God of Israel and of the universe, as opposed to the general interpretation of a rather mystical, almost unidentifiable Being, as held by most religions.

To proclaim and make known this Name unto the masses of believers who claim to follow Him but know not His Name - so that they may sanctify and praise His name that His Name may be honoured among the nations (Malachi 1:11; Isaiah 12:4).

To conform with what may really be the more correctly interpreted instruction of Exod. 20:7 concerning the use of His Name: viz. "Do not make His Name worthless" "Lo tisah et Shem YHVH Eloheicha l'shav." By withholding the proclamation of His Name, we may well be guilty of "making His Name worthless." For a more comprehensive overview of this interpretation and the topic in general, please refer to the study: Should we refrain from using the Sacred Name of God as Judaism insists?

The Torah and Tanach ('Old' Testament) clearly records how Hebraic Patriarchs and Prophets actually proclaimed and pronounced the Sacred Name as a Testimony to non-Jews and non-believers and how His followers will come to know His Name and call upon Him, using this Name! Please refer to: Should we refrain from using the Sacred Name of God?

The Bible in many places presents an explicit and clear Divine Mandate for stressing and publishing proper knowledge of His name. Here are two such instances:

Jeremiah 33:2 "YHVH Who made the earth, Who formed it and set it firm - YHVH is His Name - says this: 'Call to Me and I will answer you ...'"

Isaiah 12:4 "Give thanks to YHVH - call His Name aloud. Proclaim His deeds to the nations, declare His Name sublime. Sing of YHVH, for He has done marvelous things - let it be known to the whole world!".

YAH or YAHU

The 'Personal' Name of the 'God of Israel' by which He anciently revealed Himself to Moses ( 6:2). 'YAH' is spelt in original Hebrew, with the 10th letter of the Hebrew alphabet - the 'yood', smallest letter in the alphabet, represented by the inverted comma ( ' ). YAHU also has the meaning of 'He is YAH'

Obscure Preservation of the Sacred Name 'YAHU'

Hebrew personal names have meanings, and many such personal names have throughout time, been linked to the Sacred Name YAHU. In this obscure way, the Sacred Name YAHU has been preserved for modern times, notwithstanding the fact that it has been almost totally removed from most Bible Translations.

This Name, through recent archeological discoveries in Israel, has been found to be part of more Hebrew words and names than were formerly known. There is an untold number of usages in the Tanach ('Old Testament') where this form of the Sacred Name is used as a conjunction in Biblical names. Some of the more common examples of these are:

EliYahu ('Elijah')

YeremiYahu ('Jeremiah')

YeshiYahu ('Isaiah')

YahuShafat ('Josephat')

NetanYahu (also the name of former Israeli Prime Minister)

YahuNatan ('Jonethan')

and of course, the Messianic Salvation Name YAHU'SHUAH ('Yeshuah')

In each of the examples above, the meanings of these names refer to the Name of the Most High, eg. YAHU is Strength, my God is YAHU, etc

Similarly, the Tribe of Judah, the progeny of which to this day, still represents the original Hebraic Faith instituted by Moses according to the Divine Mandate which was handed to him personally by YAHU, God of Israel, some 4000 years ago. All the disasters of Time failed to wipe out the Tribe of Judah, which today is known as 'the Jews' - in Hebrew: Yahudim. The Tribe of Judah, in Hebrew is 'Yahuda', a Jew is 'Yahudi'. While no specific Hebrew meaning is attached to this term in the modern usage, we do find the following meanings as applied to obscure Bible characters with similar names:

'YahuAdah' (YAH unveils) 1 Chron. 8:36
'YahuYadah' (YAH knows) 2 Samuel 8:18, etc

Can it be that sinister powers have erased the linkage with the 'guardians of His Oracles' (the Jews) to the Name of YAHU? - Rom 3:2 - they, who have been His Testimony to the world all these centuries?

Strange also how, in the modern Hebrew dictionary, three words appear in successive order:

Yehudah - with its derivations referring to Jews

YHVH - the Sacred Name, and

Y'SHUAH (abbreviated form for YAHU'SHUAH) - the Messiah's Name.

THE TETRAGRAMMATON

The Sacred Name appears in the Hebrew Scriptures as four Hebrew letters Yud, hey, vav, hey, which is closest represented by the letters YHVH. This format is known as the Tetragrammaton. According to Jewish tradition it is regarded as 'not to be uttered' in order never to profane it in any way. In Judaism it is therefore pronounced as 'Adonai', meaning 'Lord'. Notwithstanding this prohibition, the Sacred Name is acknowledged in its usage as part of the names of many Biblical characters, as referred to above - and as any Bible concordance or reference book will provide.

Because of these prohibitions, translations of the original Hebrew scrolls have, throughout the ages, replaced the Tetragrammaton with 'the LORD' (in capital letters) and the Sacred Name, in so doing, became 'lost' for many centuries.

Since the sixties, there has been a movement in modern theology and especially amongst sincere Bible students throughout the world, to restore the newly 'rediscovered' Sacred Hebrew Name. Sacred Name publications which chose to restore the Sacred Name in the almost 7000 instances in the Bible, appeared one after the other and the 'Sacred Name Movement', towards the nineties and the turn of the millennium, became a flood which today literally engulfs the world...

Although there is no firm consensus on the actual pronouncement or spelling of the Tetragrammaton YHVH, there are several representations or transliterations in use by theologians and Bible students. Some of the more popular forms are YAHVEH, YAHWEH and Jehovah. A comprehensive list of the various usages that abound, are presented further down on this page.

For the purposes of this Web Site and out of respect for the Sacredness and sanctification of the Name, we will print the Tetragammaton form YHVH throughout the studies of this Web Site and leave the reader free to either substitute it or pronounce it in the way they find comfortable.

The mystery attached to the Name of the Almighty, is related to the verb ‘to be' ( I am, I was, I will be) which is the Hebrew verb ‘Hoveh’ (the ‘v’ pronounced as in ‘victory’), meaning “to be”, in the present tense. YHVH therefore, means: “YAH Hoveh”, which means “YAH is ...” (YAH being His abbreviated (actual ?) name as reflected in Psalm 68:4 in some translations.

It is therefore quite possible that the correct rendering of the SH'MAH (the Greatest Commandment - Deut 6:4) should therefore read:

SHMAA YISRAEL YAH HOVEH ELOHEINU YAH HOVEH ECHAD
HEAR ISRAEL YAH IS OUR GOD YAH IS ONE

This is how it appears in the Hebrew Scrolls:

Read from right to left (so also the following)
Top line:
YHVH Yisrael Shmaa <{-------

Bottom line:
echad YHVH Eloheinu <{-------

Source: http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/links.htm

In modern Hebrew grammar this matter is so serious and important, that the verb ‘to be’ (‘I am’) is not used in the present tense at all! An Israeli will therefore state in Hebrew: “I teacher ... I clever”, omitting the verb 'to be' (I am) in the present tense. Usage of the Hebrew verb ‘HOVEH’ (I am) would imply referring to oneself as being the Almighty! This gives reason for serious contemplation. The Almighty “is” everything good, without question. The human being, being exactly the opposite, is so easily inclined to self exaltation and self praise (often hidden under a false pretence of humility, love, care, etc.). The use of "I" and "I am" in the vocabulary of the proud and arrogant individual is a popular practice. The indwelling Spirit of the Almighty in the heart and soul of the believer, changes this selfish, haughty, deceiving attitude to an attitude of genuine humility, recreated in His Image, as the Almighty requires of us to possess. Volumes could be written on this subject.

YAHU'SHUAH

The original Hebrew or Jewish Name of the professing Jewish Messiah, who was accepted as such by a certain section (some 3000 souls) of Israel, at and after His Appearance in Israel, some 2000 years ago. To them He was known as YAHU'SHUAH (abbreviated: Y'SHUAH, also pronounced YEHOSHUA or YESHUA). In time, over the first few centuries after Messiah, His Name was gradually changed to "Je-Zeus Khristos" by the pagan masses who converted and joined the originally Jewish Messianic Sect. Out of this, Christianity was born, which was a mixture of originally pure Judaism, and gradually, progressive influences of pagan customs and traditions, together with a growing tide of an anti-Semitic spirit. This was greatly due to the instigation of influential leaders like Constantine the Great, who was a Zeus worshipper, and who purportedly converted to Christianity. It was also a natural process as a result of the infiltration of followers of the sun god, Zeus, into the Christian ranks. Even the name of their pagan idol 'Zeus' was applied to their new-found Jewish Messiah - and Y'Shuah (the abbreviated transliteration of YAHU'SHUAH), became "Y'Zeus" or Je-Zeus - which became 'Jesus' in English (NOTE - the middle 's' is pronounced as a 'z'). In other languages, it took on various other forms.

A similar pagan influenced name-shift has been retained to this day in the KJV translation of Luke 4:27, where it refers to the prophet "Eliseus' and an event recorded in 2 Kings 5:14 (according even to the KJV reference version). This prophet's Hebrew name, however, was 'Eli'Shuah', which means "God is my Salvation" (as Y'SHUAH means "YAH is Salvation" or "YAH the Saviour"). Exactly the same as the pagan influence changed Y'SHUAH to "Y'Zeus" - ('Jesus' - phonetically 'Jezus'), so also Luk 4:27 reflects the change of "Eli'Shuah" to "Eli'Zeus' ("My God is Zeus")! Youngs Bible Concordance in its reference to the name 'Eliseus', states: "The form in which the name of Elisha appears in the common version of the New Testament and the Apocrypha in Luke 4:27".

The Hebrew form of the Name YAHU'SHUAH (or Y'SHUAH) is often used in the Tanach (Old Testament) as well as in the official Jewish daily and festival Prayer Books, where it is generally translated as "Salvation".

The recent much acclaimed computer generated research into repeating patterns or 'secret revealing codes' purportedly contained in the original Hebrew text of the Tanach (Hebrew Bible), revealed hidden codes of the Name Y'SHUAHin all the prophetic sections concerning the promised Messiah.

The 6th Book of the Bible uses the identical Hebrew form, and is translated "Joshua". The most probable authentic form is YAHOSHUA or YAHU'SHUA

The publishers wish to emphasise that, although the forms YAHVEH (for the God of Israel), and YAHU'SHUAH (for the Messiah) are favoured in this edition, we acknowledge most of the other accepted forms. We believe that we should not be dogmatic, since all the various forms which are so dogmatically insisted upon by various interpreters, are merely transliterations of the original Hebrew - which after all, is the only true and exact Name. All the various forms which are presented by Sacred Name promoters and which are the cause of so much confusion, are proposed in an earnest endeavour to proclaim the Biblical Sacred Names. This process of representing a word or a name in a different language, is called 'transliteration'.

TRANSLITERATION OF THE HEBREW SACRED NAMES
INTO OTHER LANGUAGES

This process of writing Hebrew words in another language or alphabet is more an art than a science, and opinions on the correct way to transliterate Hebrew words and names vary widely amongst the Sacred Name Restorers amongst all the nations of the world.. This is why, for instance, the Jewish festival of lights (in Hebrew, spelled Chet-Nun-Kaf-He) is transliterated as 'Chanukah, Chanukkah, Hanuka' and many other forms Each spelling has a legitimate phonetic and orthographic basis; none is right or wrong from a linguist's viewpoint. It is only specific in the original Hebrew.

For purposes of this study, we have conglomerated from the Oxford Dictionary, a definition for the process of transliteration, from the three definitions affecting it, namely, name, word and transliteration. We then arrive at the following:

Transliteration of the Sacred Name is the process of representing the original Hebrew sound or combination of sounds which form a spoken word by which God is known and identified, in the closest corresponding letters of a different alphabet

It is obvious, that this process of using "the closest corresponding letters", would present various options in the 'new' alphabet, more so, because some Hebrew letters or sounds are not always represented in other languages.

An absurdity presented by this transliterating process, is that often the 'new' representations introduce sounds that are non-existing in the Hebrew language, as for instance:

- the 'J' in 'Jehovah' ('J' as in 'George')
- the 'J' in 'Jesus'
- the 'w' in 'Yahweh' or 'Yahowah'

We have to re-emphasise that these sounds do not exist an Hebrew and is not provided for in the Hebrew alphabet, yet some Sacred Name promoters insist on their interpretation and transliteration as the 'only true' form.

It is for this reason that BIBLE REVELATIONS promote the wider tolerant stance of "acknowledging most of the other accepted forms", without digressing from the importance of finding the correct form of the Sacred Name/s. The soundness of this tolerant stance can be substantiated by performing the following exercise:

The following paragraphs below publish a list of the various transliterated forms that are commonly proclaimed for the Sacred Name/s. Read thru this list fast, almost casually or browsingly, without great concern for specific pronunciation - and LISTEN to your own voice. You will find that all these variations present one almost identical sound. It is also important to realise that, in any nation we find various sectors and dialects and when presenting these sectors with the pronunciation of even their own language, we will find great variations. The foundational Truth is, that a name represents a sound (and a meaning), and in the written language, this sound is represented by certain letters to secure that sound. regarding the Sacred Name/s - the only true foundation that we have for it, is the written Hebrew form. And to represent this in various languages, is where the problem rests - thus, in the Curse of the Tower of Babylon (Gen. 11).

The following transliterated versions of the Sacred Names which are in use by various Sacred name groups, are therefore acknowledged:

YHVH YHWH Yahweh Yahveh Yaveh Yaweh Jehova Jehovah Jahova Jahovah Yahova Yahovah Yahowah Jahowa Jahowah Yahavah Jahavah Yahowe Yahoweh Jahaveh Jahaweh Yahaveh Yahaweh Jahuweh Yahuweh Jahuwah Yahuwah Yahuah Yah Jah Yahu Yahoo Yaohu Jahu Yahvah Jahvah Jahve Jahveh Yahve Yahwe Yauhu Yawhu Iahu Iahou Iahoo Iahueh

Jeshua, Yeshua, Yeshuah, Yehshua, Yehshuah, Yeshouah, Y'shua, Y'shuah, Jeshu, Yeshu, Yehoshua, Yehoshuah, YHVHShua, YHVHShuah, Yhvhshua, Yhwhshua, YHWHShua, YHWHShuah, Yhvhshuah, Yhwhshuah, Yahvehshua, Yahwehshua, Yahvehshuah, Yahwehshuah, Yawhushua,Yahawshua, Jahshua, Jahshuah, Jahshuwah, Jahoshua, Jahoshuah, Jashua, Jashuah, Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Yashua, Yashuah, Yahshua, Yahshuah, Yahushua, Yahushuah, Yahuahshua, Yahuahshuah, Yahoshua, Yahoshuah, Yaohushua, Yaohushuah, Yauhushua, Iahoshua, Iahoshuah, Iahushua, Iahushuah, YAHO-hoshu-WAH

PRONUNCIATION:

YAHU = YA-HU, the ‘YA’ as in ‘yard’;
and ‘Hu’ as in 'Who’
YAHU'SHUAH = YAHU- SHOE- A (the final ‘A’ as in ‘arm’).
'YA' as in 'yard'

PRINTED FORMAT:

For YAHU- we shall print YHVH
For YAHU'SHUAH - we may sometimes print Y'SHUAH

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SACRED NAME VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE

It is vital that students of the Bible have a Sacred Name version because the Scriptures become far more transparent in these versions. There are various Sacred Name versions of the Bible available on the market. These are normally not easily obtainable. Please drop me a line if you find any difficulties in locating a Sacred Name Bible.

Here are a few on-line free versions which you may use:

On-Line Sacred Name Versions of the Bible - click on title

Sacred Name King James Version
The Scriptures (Dr Koster)
World English Bible - Uses 'Yahveh' in the Old Testament & 'Jesus' in the New Testament
World English Bible - Uses English transliteration of the Hebrew names for the Bible Books, prophets & places, but 'LORD' for the Name of God
World English Bible - Uses 'Yeshua' in the New Testament.
The Tanach in Hebrew

Click here for List of Bible Versions which acknowledge Sacred Names

How to evaluate a Bible Translation Version

Typically, the enemy has gotten 'his foot in the door' with these Sacred Name translations. Because Truth becomes so transparent when we read the Sacred Name in some 7000 instances in the Bible, the publishers of some of these versions have not neglected to twist some of the most salient texts concerning the sublime Identity of YAHU'SHUAH as the Only true God, away from this revelationary Truth. Some popular editions which make themselves particularly guilty of this audacious tactic, are:

The Traina version,

The TEST verse, by which to test the authenticity of a specific Translation and the spirit of the translator, is:

Isaiah 9:5 (or 6 in some versions):
Here is the original Hebrew version and its literal word meanings:
Ki - Because
Yeled - a boy
yulad - born
lanu - to/for us
Ben - a son
natan - was given
lanu - to us
va'tehi - and shall be
ha'misrah - the rule, dominion
al Shichmoh - on his shoulder
va'yikra Shmoh - and - shall call - His Name
Peleh - Wonderful
Yoh'etz - Consultant, Councellor
El Gibor - God Mighty
Avi-ad - Father Eternal
Sar-Shalom - Ruler of Peace

The literal word meanings above, indisputably refer to the Messiah as the 'Mighty God and Eternal Father' - but when comparing different translations, it becomes clear that some translators deliberately conceal this Revelation by their manipulative renderings. The reader may be sure that the rest of such a translation, in the many less affirmative texts, will certainly continue this cover-up.

For another example of such inconsistent translation in The Scriptures - by Dr Koster, click here, and do not neglect to read the rest of that study also - Should we address YHVH as Elohim rather than God?.

What is BIBLE REVELATIONS' Position on the use and selection of Bible Versions?

Quotations in this Web Site of BIBLE REVELATIONS are generally made from THE JERUSALEM BIBLE, unless otherwise stated. Readers should however compare as many translations as possible and carefully follow the general context of those sections from which quotations are made as well as that of the whole Bible in its entirety.

There is no 100% perfect translation of the Original text of the Hebrew Scriptures. The most authentic and best guarded renderings throughout the ages, are found to this day in Jewish synagogues. This was the Divine Mandate to them (Rom. 3:2, Acts 7:38).

The sincere seeker after Truth may be assured, that any of the available translations have sufficient original Truth left in them, to bring one to the realisation of the Original True Faith. This has been proven to be so throughout the ages, and increasingly so in these latter days, by millions of Bible students all over the world who find and revert to this Original True Faith. (Refer Re-identification of the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel and related links on that Page and in the On-Site Library)

SACRED NAME VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE

Following is a List of Bible Translation Versions which do recognize the Sacred Name of God to some greater or lesser extent. The power of tradition over people's minds, becomes evident when there is such great opposition by the majority of believers against the use or recognition of the Sacred Names, despite such a long list of authoritative Bible versions which recognise the Sacred Names.

The underlined titles below, are actual Links to these versions - Click

Restored Name King James Version
OT - Uses the actual Hebrew Tetragrammaton throughout
NT - Uses Tetragrammaton and Hebrew letters for Y'Shua

The Scriptures - The ISR
OT - Uses the actual Hebrew Tetragrammaton throughout
NT - Uses Tetragrammaton and Hebrew letters for Y'Shua

Hebrew Names Version of the World English Bible
NT - Uses Yeshua and Hebrew Names for NT Books

Hebraic Roots Version NT only
James Trimm
NT - Uses Yeshua, Hebrew names and YHWH

Complete Jewish Bible - D Stern
NT - Uses Yeshua throughout

Hebrew Bible (OT only)
(World English Bible version)
OT - Uses Yahweh throughout

The Tanach (OT) in Hebrew
Uses the actual Hebrew rendering YHVH (Tetragrammaton)

The Tanach in Hebrew
Uses the actual Hebrew rendering YHVH (Tetragrammaton)

The New Testament in Hebrew
Uses the Hebrew letters/version for 'Yeshua'

Jerusalem Bible 1971
Uses Yahweh throughout OT

Rotherham 1897
Uses Yahweh throughout OT

Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible 1970
Uses Yahweh throughout OT & many times in NT

Traina, Holy Name Bible 1963
Uses Yahweh throughout OT & many times in NT

Anchor Bible
Uses Yahweh throughout OT

Bible in Basic English 1965
Yahweh - Ex. 6:2, 3, 6; Ps.83:18 Jah - Isa. 12:2; Isa. 26:4

Berkeley Version 1963
Yahweh - Ps.147; Ps.8; Gen.22:14; Hosea12:5

Goodspeed & Smith The Bible
Yahweh - Ex 3:16; Ex 6:3

Ogden- The Basic Bible 1950
Yahweh - Ps.83:18

An American Tr. 1948
Yah - Isa 12:2; Isa. 26:4

New World Translation
Uses Jehovah throughout OT and 277 in NT

LeFevre, G.N. N.T. 1929
Uses Jehovah many times in NT

Roth N.T. 1963
Uses Jehovah many times in NT

Ballentine American Bible 5 Vols. N.T. 1901
Jehova NT 13 times

Wakefield, G. N.T. 1795
Jehovah NT - Rev. 19:1, 3, 4 & 6

Grant's Numerical Bible
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

Darby 1890
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

Taylor - The Living Bible 1971
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

Young - Literal Translation
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

ASV 1901
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

Byington 1972
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

Sharpe 1865
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

Westminster Version
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

American Baptist Publication Soc. Holy Bible - An improved Edition 1913
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

Bellamy Holy Bible (Pentateuch) 1818
Uses Jehovah throughout OT

Moulton 1914
Jehovah - Ps.83:18; Ex.6:2-9; Ex.22:14; Ps.68:4; Jer.16:20 Isa.12:2; 26:4

N.E.B. 1970
Jehovah p.XVI Gen. 4:26; Ex.3:l5-16; Ex.6:3; 33:19; 34:5-6; 35:31

K.J.V. 1611
Jehovah - 4 times: Ex.6:2-3; Ps.83:18, (68:4) Isa. 12:2; 26:4

Revised English Version 1898
Jehovah - Ex.6:2-3; Ps.83:18

Dr. Conquest 1843
Jehovah - Ps.83:18

Polyglott - English Version 1836
Jehovah - Ps.83:18

Joseph Smith - Inspired Version 1936 ed
Jehovah - Ps.83:18

Green J.P. King James & others
Jehovah - Ps.83:18

Scott, T. 1816
Jehovah - Ps-83:18

Green, J.P. Modern K . J . 1962
Jehovah - Ps.83:18

Book of Mormon
Jehovah - on last page only

Good News Bible
“Lord” Jehovah Ex 6:3 footnote

Berkeley Version Bible in Modern English 1963
Jehovah - Gen 22:14; Ex 6:3 Ps 8:1,9; Ex 3:15;
Yahweh - Hosea 12:5

Great Bible (Hexaplar Psalter) 1969
Jehovah - Ps-33:12
Iehoua Ps,83:18

Geneva Version 1608
Iehouah - Gen.22:14; Ps.83:18

UNIQUE ODDITY

In a strange play on Opposites, both the Names of the Creator God (YHVH) and the Messiah (YAHU'SHUAH) have extreme opposite meanings, when one Hebrew letter only, is changed in these Names to an alternative similar 'sounding' alphabetic letter. By changing even just a vowel sound, the meaning of the Name changes from 'sacred to evil', from 'good to bad'.

The lack of proper and in-depth knowledge of Hebrew, have led many 'researchers' to wrong conclusions in this matter. In this age of knowledge explosion, assisted by ever advancing technological means of knowledge distribution, a lot of inappropriate 'wisdom' is palmed off on the unwary but serious seeker after Truth. It would be evenly unwise to conclude, that it is therefore safer to close one's mind to 'new evidence' - which would mean continuing in the old way of suppression of the Sacred Names which so revealingly identify the Truth.

It is the onus of the true believer to acquaint him/herself with restorative Truth - and it is in this spirit that BIBLE REVELATIONS share with you some revelationary knowledge on this and the many other subjects on this Web Site.

The Sacred Name YHVH versus the Hebrew words 'hoveh' or 'hovah'

We have pointed out above, that there may be a probable linkage of YHVH to the verb 'hoveh' i.e. "YAH - HOVEH, spelt in Hebrew Y-HVH or Yud - hey vav hey. There are now some interpreters who maintain that there is a similar Hebrew word spelt with exactly the same Hebrew letters hey vav hey, which is pronounced "hovah" (as opposed to 'Hoveh') and which means "covetousness/wickedness". They therefore discard versions of the Sacred name like: Jehovah, Yahovah, Yahvah and even Yahoveh.

It is more likely that this closeness in spelling have an underlying Truth in it, like for instance, that YHVH is the Saviour of those who accept Him and comply with His requirements, while He is also the Judge and the Destroyer (ultimately) of those who have rejected Him and who chose to side with His opposers, or those who committed themselves to evil.

The matter becomes particularly problematic, considering the peculiar essentials of the Hebrew language not having vowels. It is the vowels that will change 'hoveh' into 'hovah' - but there are no written vowels in Hebrew proper to indicate which version is meant (especially anciently when the Torah was originally written). Modern Hebrew does utilise little signs (dashes and dots) below the Hebrew letters. Thus either 'hoveh' or 'hovah' is written in Hebrew, simply by using h-v-h (Hebr. hey-vav-hey)

The Hebrew dictionary reflects the following versions, one after the other strangely enough, and all spelt hey-vav-hey

Havah - trouble, destruction, mischief, passion.
Hovah - " " " ruin
Havah - 3rd person past tense of 'to be' i.e. he was
Heveyh - Command form: "be!" - as in 'be lord over your brethren' Gen. 27:29
Hivah - 3rd person past tense - to cause to be, constitute
Hoveh - present, present tense.
Hoveh - 1st person, male, present tense - to be i.e. I AM - though written with a double vav
Hovah - " " female, - do -

As if confirming the above peculiarity, the Hebrew spelling of the Salvation Name inherent in Messiah's Name, YAHU'SHUAH, has an equivalent particularly 'bad' alternative. This occurs in the 'ah' sound in the final syllable, 'Shuah'. In Hebrew, there are 2 letters denoting the 'a' or 'ah' sound - either the Aleph, or the A'yin. YAHU'SHUAH (meaning 'YAH or YAHU is salvation', 'Saviour', 'Help') is written with an a'yin. But, the 'Holocaust', the biggest catastrophe in Jewish history, is also called the 'Shoah' (Yom HaShoah is the special remembrance Day on the Jewish Calendar). This spelling is similar to the last part of the Salvation Name, i.e. 'YAH-Shuah', but it ends with an aleph - before the final silent hey (which is sometimes used and other times not). The dictionary, surprisingly, gives the meaning of Shoah as "destruction, ruin" (same as for Havah!) - also as 'holocaust, cataclysm, disaster, abyss' - all totally opposite from the sacred meanings depicted in His name and Mission.

Is this pure co-incidence - or is there a deeper meaning, i.e. that YAHU'SHUAH will be 'disaster' etc. for those who oppose Him and go lost, but He shall be Saviour and Help to those who accept Him, thereby coming into the Eternal Covenant, like unto, and equal with Judah (the Jews) - refer Eph. ch 2. One could also reason that this extreme oppostites in meaning of the same sounding words, may well infer the power of 'Salvation' to change, roll over, redeem 'disaster' - just as YAHU'SHUAH can change the disaster that a soul or the nation of Israel finds itself in, eg. 10-Israel was rejected and 'divorced' by YHVH, casted out of the Covenant into damnation - but YAHU'SHUAH redeemed them and is returning them to be united into ONE Nation on the soil of Israel once more! He turns their 'Shuah' from damnation and disaster into the Saving Victory! HalleluYAH!

Refer: The True Gospel
Captivity

Is God not after all a Great Blessing to those who worship Him, and disaster to those who don't? Significantly, there is but a small 'crossing' between the two - yet a great abyss for many souls who find it so hard to traverse.

CAUTIONARY NOTE: For every Truth that transpires, Satan stands ready with an alternative, to drag would-be over comers down into the Abyss again. Be warned, that this supposition of a probable dual meaning in both the Name of the Creator God as well as His Salvation Name, will be grabbed as support for their sick teaching, by promoters of the theory that "God in essence can be the Source of both Good and Evil". These people obviously lack the true respect and love for the Impeccable and Holy One. The fact that, apart from being the Saviour to some people, God may also be the Judge and 'disaster' to those who oppose Him, does not make Him the source of that evil or disaster! This 'theory' goes even deeper, to an extent that we would refrain from even mentioning here - be warned! This will simply be another test of your True and unshakable Faith in His Holiness, which you will be amply rewarded for in His Kingdom.

So, don't shy away from Knowledge which will set you free. The Truth shall certainly set you free. Simply cling to the admonition given in:

Phil 4:8 (KJV) "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things" (and discard the rest!).

Click here to view full index of Sacred Name studies.

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

http://www.yahuyahweh.org/eaoy/pdf/yahushua_in_aramaic.pdf

[thumbsup2]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

iwillcheck out the link provided Sister..Thx

WE NEED all parts of the body... [Smile]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

i do not know those folks you mentioned..but i will watch out for them...

Thankyou Sister Carol for not "throwing out the babywith the bath water" ..there is many false; but i believe in my sould about HIS name YHWH and HIS SONS NAME, which as best as i can tell is Yahushua..

Some of those out there a surely false cults, and i will scheck those folks out...because i do not like to use quotes if i KNOW some one is teaching FALSE DOCTRINES..
love
barry

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

quote:
Proof About The Name Of Yahweh
Joseph Rotherham, in The Emphasized Bible, A New Translation, the Standard Publishing Co., 1902, says this in the "Introduction, The Incommunicable Name:"

The Emphasized Bible (EBR)

John 3
1There was however, a man from among the Pharisees, Nicodemus, his name,--ruler of the Jews.

2 The same, came unto him, by night, and said unto him--Rabbi! we know that, from God, thou hast come, a teacher; for, no one, can be doing, these signs, which, thou, art doing, except, God, be with him.

3 Jesus answered, and said unto him--Verily, verily, I say unto thee: Except one be born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The Book Of Yahweh

Samples of FALSE DOCTRINE in the House of YAHWEH's Book of YAHWEH...

• Did YAHWEH's estranged wife let her pride overcome her and as a result she left YAHWEH her husband and became Satan the adversary?

That's what the Book of YAHWEH says, page 649, Ezekiel 28:14

http://amightywind.com/yhawkins/ihoy.htm

barry, I'm not opposed to using the Hebrew names, or observing the Sabbath and holy days, if that's what you choose to do. But you need to be careful and do research. There are cults involved in doing those same things. You said you're interested in the truth, so part of the truth is that you need to be careful and research the resources you depend on.

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

Proof About The Name Of Yahweh
Joseph Rotherham, in The Emphasized Bible, A New Translation, the Standard Publishing Co., 1902, says this in the "Introduction, The Incommunicable Name:"

The Name Suppressed: THE FACT
It is willingly admitted that the suppression has not been absolute; at least so far as Hebrew and English are concerned. The Name, in its four essential letters (YHWH), was reverently transcribed by the Hebrew copyist, and therefore was necessarily placed before the eye of the Hebrew reader. The latter, however, was instructed not to pronounce it, but to utter instead a less sacred name—Adonay or Elohim. In this way The Name was not suffered to reach the ear of the listener. To that degree it was suppressed. The Septuagint, or ancient Greek version (LXX), made the concealment complete by regularly substituting Kurios; as the Vulgate, in like manner, employed Dominus; both Kurios and Dominus having at the same time their own proper service to render as correctly answering to the Hebrew Adonay, confessedly meaning 'Lord'. The English versions do nearly the same things, in rendering The Name as LORD, and occasionally GOD; these terms also having their own rightful office to fill as fitly representing the Hebrew titles Adonay and Elohim and El, so that the Tetragrammaton is nearly hidden in our public English versions. 'Confusion', then, is a term not a whit too strong to apply to these varying devices. No wonder that even intelligent and educated people are continually forgetting what they have heard or read concerning so involved a matter.

Rotherham then gives reasons why the Name Yahweh must be restored, and from now on retained in the Scriptures:
1. Because its suppression was a mistake. So grave a mistake cannot be corrected too soon. An unwarrantable liberty has been taken; the path of humility is to retrace our steps. The facts have only to be known to justify this verdict, and to vindicate the propriety of not employing it in a new and independent translation.

Unger's Bible Dictionary, Merrill F. Unger, 1957, page 1177, says:
Yahweh (ya´we). The Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) traditionally pronounced Jehovah (q.v.) is now known to be correctly vocalized yahwe. New inscriptional evidence from the second and first millennia B.C. point toward this fact.

Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia, 1975, Vol. 2, page 690, tell us:
The Name par excellence for the Creator of Israel is Yahweh, found 6,823 times in the OT. Through Israyl's deliverance from bondage in Egypt, adoption as a nation, and guidance to the Promised Land, the Redeemer-Creator is especially known by this Name.

The Interpreter's Dictionary, 1962, Vol. 4, page 923, says:
Yahweh -The vocalization of the four consonants of the Israelite name for the Creator, which scholars believe to approximate the original pronunciation.

James Moffatt, in his translation, The Bible: A New Translation, 1935, informs us in his introduction:
Strictly speaking this ought to be rendered `Yahweh' which is familiar to modern readers in the erroneous form of 'Jehovah'. Were this version intended for students of the original, there would be no hesitation whatever in printing 'Yahweh'.

The Encyclopedia Judaica, 1972, Vol. 7, page 680, states emphatically:
The true pronunciation of the Name YHWH was never lost. Several early Greek writers of the Christian Church testify that the Name was pronounced 'YAHWEH'.

The personal Name of the Creator is written in the Hebrew scriptures with the four consonants YHWH, and is referred to as the Tetragrammaton. At least until the destruction of the First Temple in 586 b.c.e., Yahweh's Name was pronounced regularly with its proper vowels, as is clear from the Lachish Letters, written shortly before that day. However, at least by the third century b.c.e., the pronunciation of the Name Yahweh was avoided, and Adonai, 'the Lord', was substituted for it.

The Century Bible, Vol. 1, pages 90-91, tells us:
Some time after the return from the Captivity, and before the beginning of the Christian era, the Jews came to believe that the Holy Name YAHWEH was too sacred to be uttered on ordinary occasions. It was said to be pronounced by the High Priest on the Day of Atonement. At other times, when any one read or quoted aloud from what is called the Old Testament, the word `Adonay, 'Lord', was usually substituted for YAHWEH, and similarly the LXX (Septuagint Version) has Kurios, the Vulgate dominus, and the E.V. LORD, where the Hebrew has YAHWEH. Hebrew was originally written without vowels, but when the vowel points were added, the vowels of Adonay or Elohim were written with YAHWEH, as a direction that these words were to be read instead of the word whose consonants were YAHWEH; thus we find the combinations YeHoWaH and YeHoWiH. At the Reformation, the former being the more usual, was sometimes used as the Name of the (Mighty One) of Israyl, and owing to ignorance of its history was misread as Jehovah, a form which has established itself in English, but does not give the pronunciation of the Holy Name it represents.

The Hiding Of Yahweh's Name

The Masorites, Hebrew scribes during the Middle Ages, who added the vowel points to the accepted Hebrew text, did not remove Yahweh's Name from the scriptures. They did, however, point the four letter Name of Yahweh with the vowel marks of the titles Elohim or Adonai. However, when the scriptures were translated into Aramaic, Greek, Latin, and later on, English, Lord was substituted for the Name Yahweh.

Unger's Bible Dictionary, on page 665, says:
Lord (Hebrew, Adon), an early word denoting ownership; hence, absolute control. It is not properly a divine title. The Jews, out of a superstitious reverence for the Name Yahweh, always, in reading, pronounce Adonai (lord) whereYahweh is written.

Smith's Bible Dictionary, 1872 Edition, states the following:
The substitution of the word Lord is most (sad); for, while it in no way represents the meaning of the Sacred Name, the mind has constantly to guard against a confusion with its lower uses, and, above all, the direct personal hearing of the Name on the revelation of YAHWEH...is injuriously out of sight.

The Decision
That Changed Publishing History

Some conscientious scholars have made meager attempts to restore the Name of the Creator in the Holy Scriptures. Their efforts have been much appreciated by serious Bible students. Their efforts to correct these mistakes have brought about new inroads, leading to deeper studies of the scriptures. However, the conscientious scholars, whose work is now being studied worldwide, knew their work was very insignificant, compared to the corrections that were needed. The words that Joseph Rotherham wrote in 1902 seemed to speak directly to us.

1. Because its suppression was a mistake. So grave a mistake cannot be corrected too soon. An unwarrantable liberty has been taken; the path of humility is to retrace our steps. The facts have only to be known to justify this verdict, and to vindicate the propriety of not employing it in a new and independent translation.

We decided to go far beyond all other conscientious scholars and produce a completely new and independent translation, restoring Yahweh's Name to the Holy Scriptures.

We were determined to produce a Bible that would remain as faithful to the original writings as humanly possible. Above all else, we wanted a Bible that we would look forward to reading again and again—a book that we could treasure for years to come.

In producing The Book of Yahweh, every known biblical reference source available was used, including many rare and out of print books and facsimile copies of the most ancient manuscripts.

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

Never saw you as an idiot; i believe tradition has influenced you way too much for your own good. Brother wildb

Brother Shau'l states:

quote:
wildb, like I said I was wrong in calling you an idiot. I was really irritated when I wrote that, but that is no excuse, my sincerest apologies, and I truly hope you forgive me. Barrykind thank you for the scriptural correction, it is received humbly. Yah Bless you all, may we always seek His truth. Sha'ul

Your heart bears witness to your relationship with YHWH Shaul, and i appreciate your love of the Messiah.

After asking forgiveness from wildb and even if he does not respond your concious and heart should be clear my Brother.. [Smile]

bondservant
barry

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Sha'ul:
wildb, like I said I was wrong in calling you an idiot. I was really irritated when I wrote that, but that is no excuse, my sincerest apologies, and I truly hope you forgive me. Barrykind thank you for the scriptural correction, it is received humbly. Yah Bless you all, may we always seek His truth. Sha'ul

But I am a idiot.

My Favorite idiot was the The Hunchback of Notre Dame

SANCTUARY!

Love you. Relax

I am Wildb the hunchback of Christianbbs.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

Sha'ul
Advanced Member
Member # 8294

posted

wildb, like I said I was wrong in calling you an idiot. I was really irritated when I wrote that, but that is no excuse, my sincerest apologies, and I truly hope you forgive me. Barrykind thank you for the scriptural correction, it is received humbly. Yah Bless you all, may we always seek His truth. Sha'ul

Posts: 32 | Registered: Sep 2010 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

I like you Barry,

I too have seen , probably more than you, the misuse of the Bible to play games with the souls of others.

I spoke in tongues when filled with the Spirit in 1975 just 3 days before I reported for duty.

Which proved to be most helpful in the years to follow.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

Shaul stated:

quote:
I'm sorry, but wildB you are an idiot. I know I'm wrong in saying it, but I am speaking the truth. You're not looking for the truth, period. You're a wolf in sheeps clothing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brother shaul, you are right in saying you are wrong for saying that wildb is and "id___"

Matt: 21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

I think with all my heart he is wrong on some doctrine and topics here....but be careful how you deal with your frustration my freind.. [Smile]

love
bondservant
barry

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Sha'ul:
I'm sorry, but wildB you are an idiot. I know I'm wrong in saying it, but I am speaking the truth. You're not looking for the truth, period. You're a wolf in sheeps clothing

Have you not been paying attention to scripture?

The Lord takes we idiots for to confound you wise guys.

Philippians, Chapter 1, 27: Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

Sha'ul
Advanced Member
Member # 8294

posted

I'm sorry, but wildB you are an idiot. I know I'm wrong in saying it, but I am speaking the truth. You're not looking for the truth, period. You're a wolf in sheeps clothing

Posts: 32 | Registered: Sep 2010 | IP: Logged |

Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365

posted

God bless you Betty.

I have been following this thread with interest.

I have a brother who does door to door work, giving out gospel literature and explaining the way of salvation. He is very zealous and has been very zealous in evangelism from the day he was saved. It seems to have been what the Lord called him to do. One night I was in conversation with him about spiritual things and the topic had arisen about whither God ever speaks orally nowadays since we have the written word.

I thought not until he told me this. He said. “One day I was doing door to door and I went to a house where a woman greeted me at the door. I began to explain to her about how all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and how that the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified for sinners, and whosoever believes and accepts Him as their Lord and saviour has eternal life. After speaking to her for a while, she said; you are preaching at me, stop preaching at me, to which he responded, “I’m sorry for preaching at you.” Then he told me. “When I was in bed a soft voice spoke directly and clearly into my ear and greeted me with the word, “son” and said, “son do not ever again say you are sorry for preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.” He told me he never did so since. I believe this was a rebuke directly from the Lord.

The point here is that the voice did not say “do not use the name “Jesus” when you preach.” It seems to me that, God intends English-speaking people to use English and Hebrew speaking people to use Hebrew and if the language of the people cannot be spoken, there should be an interpreter.

Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005 | IP: Logged |

Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

posted

Barry,

You can try to spread your cult of lies, but you cannot take away from the truth that as a 7 year old girl, I cried out to Jesus and He saved me.
I am 58 years old and I have never called out to Jesus and had Him refuse to answer me.

You are wasting your time, trying to convict us of a sin that does not exist. We are saved by grace through Jesus Christ our Lord. Your cult beliefs cannot steal our salvation.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
wildb sir:
you stated:

quote:
Then why do you do it!Your removing "The Lord thy God" and inserting "Yahweh thy Elohim" is changing the text to suit your personal belief system.

You have taken away a clear understanding and replaced it with your fuzzy logic
Brother i dont think that im changing scriptures, i see that im going back beyond the King James 1611 AV and restoring what was originally printed there. i have showed countless scriptures about HIS name and told you that im positive about the tetragramaton, the letters of YHWH (YHVH), im not 100% sure on how to positively with out a doubt pronounce HIS name... i think by the research that i have done believe i do, but just as you are sure about the word (Jesus), im sure about Yahsusha, or yahoshua; which both mean YHWH (YHVH) is saslvation.

Im not being contentious on purpose, your definition, of why you use Jesus is that it is scripture, it was changed to that name sir, a first year bible student knows that. Did i say your not saved, of course not!

YHWH the ALMIGHTY does most assuradley look upon a persons heart! No Doubt. When we see something that is truth HE does expect us to change, and Brother HE is certainly long suffering. i and surely appreciate that im my life.

we have grave differences on probablly 5-6 doctrines, but until proven otherwise i see you as my Brother.

It seems that we are most probably at a standstill here, and i do not want to hurt anyone...Maybe it would be best to let this topic go, if yall like.

Unless new information from members requires an answer, i will let this topic stand as written...
love
barry

Mr Barry,

I in good conscience will not tend The Church of the Latter Day Namerites.

It is just another cult that serves no other purpose than to destroy the simplicity that is in Christ.

God has not commissioned you to rewrite the time tested Linguistic semantical text of His Word..

Please stop! Its getting rather scary your misguided obsession on this matter..

Semantics (from Greek "σημαντικός" - semantikos[1][2]) is the study of meaning. It typically focuses on the relation between signifiers, such as words, phrases, signs and symbols, and what they stand for.
Linguistic semantics is the study of meanings that humans use language to express. Other forms of semantics include the semantics of programming languages, formal logics, and semiotics.
The word "semantics" itself denotes a range of ideas, from the popular to the highly technical. It is often used in ordinary language to denote a problem of understanding that comes down to word selection or connotation. This problem of understanding has been the subject of many formal inquiries, over a long period of time, most notably in the field of formal semantics. In linguistics, it is the study of interpretation of signs or symbols as used by agents or communities within particular circumstances and contexts.[3] Within this view, sounds, facial expressions, body language, proxemics have semantic (meaningful) content, and each has several branches of study. In written language, such things as paragraph structure and punctuation have semantic content; in other forms of language, there is other semantic content.[3]
The formal study of semantics intersects with many other fields of inquiry, including lexicology, syntax, pragmatics, etymology and others, although semantics is a well-defined field in its own right, often with synthetic properties.[4] In philosophy of language, semantics and reference are related fields. Further related fields include philology, communication, and semiotics. The formal study of semantics is therefore complex.
Semantics contrasts with syntax, the study of the combinatorics of units of a language (without reference to their meaning), and pragmatics, the study of the relationships between the symbols of a language, their meaning, and the users of the language.[5]
In international scientific vocabulary semantics is also called semasiology.
Contents [hide]
1 Linguistics
1.1 Montague grammar
1.2 The dynamic turn in semantics
1.3 Prototype theory
2 Theories in Semantics
2.1 Lexical & Conceptual Semantics
2.2 Lexical Semantics
2.3 Computational Semantics
3 Computer science
3.1 Semantics of languages
3.2 Semantic models
4 Psychology
5 See also
5.1 Major contributors in the field of Semantics
5.2 Linguistics and semiotics
5.3 Logic and mathematics
5.4 Computer science
6 References
7 External links
[edit]Linguistics

It has been suggested that Meaning (linguistics) be merged into this article or section. (Discuss)
In linguistics, semantics is the subfield that is devoted to the study of meaning, as inherent at the levels of words, phrases, sentences, and larger units of discourse (referred to as texts). The basic area of study is the meaning of signs, and the study of relations between different linguistic units: homonymy, synonymy, antonymy, polysemy, paronyms, hypernymy, hyponymy, meronymy, metonymy, holonymy, linguistic compounds. A key concern is how meaning attaches to larger chunks of text, possibly as a result of the composition from smaller units of meaning. Traditionally, semantics has included the study of sense and denotative reference, truth conditions, argument structure, thematic roles, discourse analysis, and the linkage of all of these to syntax.
[edit]Montague grammar
In the late 1960s, Richard Montague proposed a system for defining semantic entries in the lexicon in terms of the lambda calculus. In these terms, the syntactic parse of the sentence like John ate every bagel would consist of a subject (John) and a predicate (ate every bagel); Montague showed that the meaning of the sentence as a whole could be decomposed into the meanings of its parts and relatively few rules of combination. The logical predicate thus obtained would be elaborated further, e.g. using truth theory models, which ultimately relate meanings to a set of Tarskiian universals, which may lie outside the logic. The notion of such meaning atoms or primitives is basic to the language of thought hypothesis from the 70s.
Despite its elegance, Montague grammar was limited by the context-dependent variability in word sense, and led to several attempts at incorporating context, such as:
situation semantics ('80s): truth-values are incomplete, they get assigned based on context
generative lexicon ('90s): categories (types) are incomplete, and get assigned based on context
[edit]The dynamic turn in semantics

Semantics

Language · Linguistics
Formal semantics
Lexis
Lexical semantics
Statistical semantics
Structural semantics
Prototype semantics
Lexicology
Semantic analysis
Latent semantic analysis
Theory of descriptions
Force Dynamics
Unsolved problems
Semantic matching
Analysis (machine)
Abstract semantic graph
Semantic Web
Semantic wiki
Semantic File System
Abstract interpretation
Formal semantics of
programming languages
Denotational semantics
Axiomatic semantics
Operational semantics
Action semantics
Algebraic semantics
Categorical semantics
Concurrency semantics
Game semantics
Predicate transformer..
v • d • e
In Chomskian linguistics there was no mechanism for the learning of semantic relations, and the nativist view considered all semantic notions as inborn. Thus, even novel concepts were proposed to have been dormant in some sense. This view was also thought unable to address many issues such as metaphor or associative meanings, and semantic change, where meanings within a linguistic community change over time, and qualia or subjective experience. Another issue not addressed by the nativist model was how perceptual cues are combined in thought, e.g. in mental rotation.[6]
This view of semantics, as an innate finite meaning inherent in a lexical unit that can be composed to generate meanings for larger chunks of discourse, is now being fiercely debated in the emerging domain of cognitive linguistics[7] and also in the non-Fodorian camp in Philosophy of Language.[8] The challenge is motivated by:
factors internal to language, such as the problem of resolving indexical or anaphora (e.g. this x, him, last week). In these situations "context" serves as the input, but the interpreted utterance also modifies the context, so it is also the output. Thus, the interpretation is necessarily dynamic and the meaning of sentences is viewed as context change potentials instead of propositions.
factors external to language, i.e. language is not a set of labels stuck on things, but "a toolbox, the importance of whose elements lie in the way they function rather than their attachments to things."[8] This view reflects the position of the later Wittgenstein and his famous game example, and is related to the positions of Quine, Davidson, and others.
A concrete example of the latter phenomenon is semantic underspecification – meanings are not complete without some elements of context. To take an example of a single word, "red", its meaning in a phrase such as red book is similar to many other usages, and can be viewed as compositional.[9] However, the colours implied in phrases such as "red wine" (very dark), and "red hair" (coppery), or "red soil", or "red skin" are very different. Indeed, these colours by themselves would not be called "red" by native speakers. These instances are contrastive, so "red wine" is so called only in comparison with the other kind of wine (which also is not "white" for the same reasons). This view goes back to de Saussure:
Each of a set of synonyms like redouter ('to dread'), craindre ('to fear'), avoir peur ('to be afraid') has its particular value only because they stand in contrast with one another. No word has a value that can be identified independently of what else is in its vicinity.[10]
and may go back to earlier Indian views on language, especially the Nyaya view of words as indicators and not carriers of meaning.[11]
An attempt to defend a system based on propositional meaning for semantic underspecification can be found in the Generative Lexicon model of James Pustejovsky, who extends contextual operations (based on type shifting) into the lexicon. Thus meanings are generated on the fly based on finite context.
[edit]Prototype theory
Another set of concepts related to fuzziness in semantics is based on prototypes. The work of Eleanor Rosch in the 1970s led to a view that natural categories are not characterizable in terms of necessary and sufficient conditions, but are graded (fuzzy at their boundaries) and inconsistent as to the status of their constituent members.
Systems of categories are not objectively "out there" in the world but are rooted in people's experience. These categories evolve as learned concepts of the world – meaning is not an objective truth, but a subjective construct, learned from experience, and language arises out of the "grounding of our conceptual systems in shared embodiment and bodily experience".[12] A corollary of this is that the conceptual categories (i.e. the lexicon) will not be identical for different cultures, or indeed, for every individual in the same culture. This leads to another debate (see the Whorf-Sapir hypothesis or Eskimo words for snow).

[edit]Theories in Semantics

[edit]Lexical & Conceptual Semantics
This theory is an effort to explain properties of argument structure. The assumption behind this theory is that syntactic properties of phrases reflect the meanings of the words that head them.[13] With this theory, linguists can better deal with the fact that subtle differences in word meaning correlate with other differences in the syntactic structure that the word appears in.[13] The way this is gone about is by looking at the internal structure of words.[14] These small parts that make up the internal structure of words are referred to as semantic primitives.[14]
[edit]Lexical Semantics
A linguistic theory that investigates word meaning. This theory understands that the meaning of a word is fully reflected by its context. Here, the meaning of a word is constituted by its contextual relations.[15] Therefore, a distinction between degrees of participation as well as modes of participation are made.[15] In order to accomplish this distinction any part of a sentence that bears a meaning and combines with the meanings of other constituents is labeled as a semantic constituent. Semantic constituents that can not be broken down into more elementary constituents is labeled a minimal semantic constituent.[15]
[edit]Computational Semantics
Computational Semantics is focused on the processing of linguistic meaning. In order to do this concrete algorithms and architectures are described. Within this framework the algorithms and architectures are also analyzed in terms of decidability, time/space complexity, data structures which they require and communication protocols.[16] Many companies use semantic technologies to create commercial value. The fundamental point is that you cannot create much value from content that you do not understand. Once you understand, then you can interrogate more effectively, create explicit relationships between content around topics and issues, inform contextual advertising and product placement, and build a standard method of sharing structured data between publishers.[17]
[edit]Computer science

In computer science, the term semantics refers to the meaning of languages, as opposed to their form (syntax). Additionally, the term semantic is applied to certain types of data structures specifically designed and used for representing information content.
[edit]Semantics of languages
The semantics of programming languages and other languages is an important issue and area of study in computer science. Like the syntax of a language, its semantics can be defined exactly.
For instance, the following statements use different syntaxes, but cause the same instructions to be executed:
x += y (C, Java, Perl, Ruby, etc.)
x := x + y (Pascal)
LET X = X + Y (early BASIC)
x = x + y (most BASIC dialects, Python, Fortran)
(incf x y) (Common Lisp)
Generally these operations would all perform an arithmetical addition of 'y' to 'x' and store the result in a variable called 'x'.
Various ways have been developed to describe the semantics of programming languages formally, building on mathematical logic:[18]
Operational semantics: The meaning of a construct is specified by the computation it induces when it is executed on a machine. In particular, it is of interest how the effect of a computation is produced.
Denotational semantics: Meanings are modelled by mathematical objects that represent the effect of executing the constructs. Thus only the effect is of interest, not how it is obtained.
Axiomatic semantics: Specific properties of the effect of executing the constructs as expressed as assertions. Thus there may be aspects of the executions that are ignored.
[edit]Semantic models
Terms such as "semantic network" and "semantic data model" are used to describe particular types of data models characterized by the use of directed graphs in which the vertices denote concepts or entities in the world, and the arcs denote relationships between them.
The Semantic Web refers to the extension of the World Wide Web through the embedding of additional semantic metadata, using semantic data modelling techniques such as RDF and OWL.
[edit]Psychology

In psychology, semantic memory is memory for meaning – in other words, the aspect of memory that preserves only the gist, the general significance, of remembered experience – while episodic memory is memory for the ephemeral details – the individual features, or the unique particulars of experience. Word meaning is measured by the company they keep, i.e. the relationships among words themselves in a semantic network. The memories may be transferred imtergenerationally or isolated in a single generation due to a cultural disruption. Different generations may have different experiences at similar points in their own time-lines. This may then create a vertically heterogeneous semantic net for certain words in an otherwise homogeneous culture.[19] In a network created by people analyzing their understanding of the word (such as Wordnet) the links and decomposition structures of the network are few in number and kind, and include "part of", "kind of", and similar links. In automated ontologies the links are computed vectors without explicit meaning. Various automated technologies are being developed to compute the meaning of words: latent semantic indexing and support vector machines as well as natural language processing, neural networks and predicate calculus techniques.
[edit]See also

Linguistics portal
[edit]Major contributors in the field of Semantics
J.L. Austin
Rudolf Carnap
Noam Chomsky
Eugenio Coseriu
Donald Davidson
Michael Dummett
Gottlob Frege
H.P. Grice
Irene Heim
Ray Jackendoff
Hans Kamp
David Kaplan
Alfred Korzybski
Saul Kripke
George Lakoff
Richard Montague
Barbara Partee
Charles Sanders Peirce
John Perry
W.V.O. Quine
Bertrand Russell
John Searle
P.F. Strawson
Alfred Tarski
Ludwig Wittgenstein
[edit]Linguistics and semiotics
Analysis of subjective logics
Asemic writing
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously
Computational semantics
Discourse representation theory
General semantics
Hermeneutics
Natural semantic metalanguage
Onomasiology
Pragmatic maxim
Pragmaticism
Pragmatism
Problem of universals
Semantic change
Semantic class
Semantic feature
Semantic field
Semantic lexicon
Semantic progression
Semantic primes
Semantic property
Semeiotic
Sememe
Semiosis
Semiotics
SPL notation
[edit]Logic and mathematics
Formal logic
Game semantics
Model theory
Godel's incompleteness theorems
Proof-theoretic semantics
Semantic consequence
Semantic theory of truth
Semantics of logic
Truth-value semantics
[edit]Computer science
Formal semantics of programming languages
Knowledge representation
Semantic networks
Semantic analysis
Semantic HTML
Semantic integration
Semantic interpretation
Semantic link
Semantic Reasoner
Semantic service oriented architecture
Semantic spectrum
Semantic Unification
Semantic Web
[edit]References

^ σημαντικός, Henry George Liddell, [[Robert Scott (philologist) |Robert Scott]], A Greek-English Lexicon, on Perseus Digital Library
^ The word is derived from the Greek word σημαντικός (semantikos), "significant", from σημαίνω (semaino), "to signify, to indicate" and that from σῆμα (sema), "sign, mark, token".
^ a b Otto Neurath (Editor), Rudolf Carnap (Editor), Charles F. W. Morris (Editor) (1955). International Encyclopedia of Unified Science. Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press.
^ Cruise, Alan. Meaning and Language: An introduction to Semantics and Pragmatics, chapter one, Oxford Textbooks in Linguistics, 2004; Kearns, Kate. Semantics, Palgrave MacMillan 2000; Cruise, D.A. Lexical Semantics. Cambridge, 1986.
^ Kitcher and Salmon (1989). Scientific Explanation. Mineapolis: University of Minnesota Press. p. 35.
^ Barsalou, L. (1999). Perceptual Symbol Systems. Behavioral and Brain Sciences 22(4)
^ Ronald W. Langacker (1999). Grammar and Conceptualization. Berlin/New York: Mouton de Gruyer. ISBN 3110166038.
^ a b Jaroslav Peregrin (2003). Meaning: The Dynamic Turn. Current Research in the Semantics/Pragmatics Interface. London: Elsevier.
^ Gärdenfors, Peter (2000). Conceptual Spaces: The Geometry of Thought. MIT Press/Bradford Books. ISBN 9780585228372.
^ Ferdinand de Saussure (1916). The Course of General Linguistics (Cours de linguistique générale).
^ Bimal Krishna Matilal (1990). The word and the world: India's contribution to the study of language. Oxford. The Nyaya and Mimamsa schools in Indian vyakarana tradition conducted a centuries-long debate on whether sentence meaning arises through composition on word meanings, which are primary; or whether word meanings are obtained through analysis of sentences where they appear. (Chapter 8).
^ Lakoff, George; Johnson, Mark (1999). Philosophy in the Flesh: The embodied mind and its challenge to Western thought. Chapter 1.. New York: Basic Books.. OCLC 93961754.
^ a b Levin, Beth & Steven Pinker. (1991). Lecxical & Conceptual Semantics. Blackwell. Cambridge.
^ a b Jackendoff, Ray. (1990). Semantic Structures. MIT Press. Cambridge
^ a b c Cruse, D. (1986). Lexical Semantics. Cambridge University Press. Cambridge.
^ Nerbonne, J. (1996). The Handbook of Contemporary Semantic Theory (ed. Lappin, S.) Blackwell Publishing. Cambridge.
^ "An intro to semantics for publishers". idio. June 7, 2010. Retrieved July 28, 2010.
^ Nielson, Hanne Riis; Nielson, Flemming (1995). Semantics with Applications, A Formal Introduction (1st ed.). Chicester, England: John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 0-471-92980-8.
^ AJ Giannini. (2010) Semiotic and semantic implications of "authenticity". Psychological Reports. 106(2):611-612.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

wildb sir:
you stated:

quote:
Then why do you do it!Your removing "The Lord thy God" and inserting "Yahweh thy Elohim" is changing the text to suit your personal belief system.

You have taken away a clear understanding and replaced it with your fuzzy logic

Brother i dont think that im changing scriptures, i see that im going back beyond the King James 1611 AV and restoring what was originally printed there. i have showed countless scriptures about HIS name and told you that im positive about the tetragramaton, the letters of YHWH (YHVH), im not 100% sure on how to positively with out a doubt pronounce HIS name... i think by the research that i have done believe i do, but just as you are sure about the word (Jesus), im sure about Yahsusha, or yahoshua; which both mean YHWH (YHVH) is saslvation.

Im not being contentious on purpose, your definition, of why you use Jesus is that it is scripture, it was changed to that name sir, a first year bible student knows that. Did i say your not saved, of course not!

YHWH the ALMIGHTY does most assuradley look upon a persons heart! No Doubt. When we see something that is truth HE does expect us to change, and Brother HE is certainly long suffering. i and surely appreciate that im my life.

we have grave differences on probablly 5-6 doctrines, but until proven otherwise i see you as my Brother.

It seems that we are most probably at a standstill here, and i do not want to hurt anyone...Maybe it would be best to let this topic go, if yall like.

Unless new information from members requires an answer, i will let this topic stand as written...
love
barry

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:

We are not supposed to add or take away from the scriptures.

Then why do you do it!

Your removing "The Lord thy God" and inserting "Yahweh thy Elohim" is changing the text to suit your personal belief system.

You have taken away a clear understanding and replaced it with your fuzzy logic.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

Some today teach that that the Greek names for God, found in the New Testament, are PAGAN! And, furthermore, they claim that the names for God in the various languages around the world are all pagan and idolatrous! To them, only the original Hebrew name is right!

What is the truth? Is the name "Jesus" -- Iesou in the Greek language -- derived from the name of the pagan god "Zeus"? Is the Greek name for God -- Theos -- merely another name for "Baal" and pagan in origin? Is it wrong to use the Greek names for God?

These questions cut to the very heart of the controversy over the "divine names" sects and churches who insist that the names of God in all other languages are pagan in origin and blasphemous to use. Such sects claim that the New Testament itself was originally written in the Hebrew language, and that the Greek manuscripts are frauds -- deliberate attempts by apostates to corrupt the names of God and change the teachings of Christ.

What Is the Evidence?

Is there any evidence to back up such sensational claims? Is the New Testament, as we have it today, a trustworthy document -- or a compilation of lies and forgeries, foisted upon the world by Catholic theologians of the fourth and fifth centuries?

What is the truth? If the Greek New Testament is a fraud, then we need to know it! Our salvation could be at stake -- and certainly it is, if we have believed a "lie"!

The fact is, there is no Biblical evidence that God must be called only by His Hebrew names and titles. There is no Biblical or linguistic evidence that prohibits the use of English names and titles for God.

If Almighty God only wanted us to use the HEBREW names for God, then we would expect that the writers of the New Testament would have inserted the Hebrew names for God whenever they mentioned Him! But they do not do so. Instead, throughout the New Testament they use the Greek forms of God's names and titles. They call God "Theos" instead of "Elohim."

The Evidence of Preservation Itself

Furthermore, even if some parts of the New Testament were written in Hebrew (such as the gospel of Matthew), as some suggest, isn't it amazing that God did not preserve those manuscripts -- instead He chose to preserve His New Testament Scriptures in the GREEK LANGUAGE, with the Greek forms of His name and titles!

Not one book of the New Testament has been preserved in Hebrew -- only in Greek. This is prima facie evidence that one language is not necessarily any "holier" than another, and that it is NOT wrong to use the forms of God's name as they would translate from the Hebrew or Greek.

Those who insist on using only the Hebrew names of God are straining at a gnat, and swallowing a camel! Nowhere does the Bible tell us that it is wrong to use the names of God in Aramaic, Greek, or any other language of the earth.

Since Almighty God has preserved the New Testament Scriptures in the Greek language, and many if not all of them were originally written in Greek, it is obvious that God Himself INSPIRED the usage of Greek to write and to maintain and preserve HIS HOLY WORD! Therefore, it is self-evident that the Greek forms of God's names and titles are perfectly all right for us to use, and translations of those forms and names into other languages, including English.

Complete article at:
http://www.ntgreek.org/answers/nt_written_in_greek.htm#Chapter_Three

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

quote:
So if we want to keep the ten commandments, we should never replace Yahweh's name with a false name or title of our own choosing. Doing so would be breaking the third commandment. This is not the only way to break the third commandment, but we can see that it is certainly one way of doing so. We are not supposed to add or take away from the scriptures.

According to barrykind, God is guilty because He inspired the New Testament to be written in Greek. The Apostles did not use His Hebrew name when they wrote the scriptures.

quote:
Matt 26:64 (KJV) Yahushua saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Actually Matthew 26:64 is not Yahushua but Iesous

Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto him 846, Thou 4771 hast said 2036 : nevertheless 4133 I say 3004 unto you 5213, Hereafter 737 575 shall ye see 3700 the Son 5207 of man 444 sitting 2521 on 1537 the right hand 1188 of power 1411, and 2532 coming 2064 in 1909 the clouds 3507 of heaven 3772.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 2424

Iesous

Original Word
ÅIhsou'ß

Word Origin
of Hebrew origin (03091)

Transliterated Word
Iesous

TDNT Entry
3:284,360

Phonetic Spelling
ee-ay-sooce'

Parts of Speech
Noun Masculine

Definition
Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"

Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate

quote:
Isaiah 42:8 (RNKJV) I am Yahweh: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

AND Isaiah 42:8 is not translated Yahweh, but Yehovah.

I [am] the LORD 3068: that [is] my name 8034: and my glory 3519 will I not give 5414 to another 312, neither my praise 8416 to graven images 6456.

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 3068

Yehovah

Original Word
hwhy

Word Origin
from (01961)

Transliterated Word
Yehovah

TDNT Entry
TWOT - 484a

Phonetic Spelling
yeh-ho-vaw'

Parts of Speech
Proper Name

Definition
Jehovah = "the existing One"
the proper name of the one true God
unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

posted

trying to say that using the Name of Jesus is using the Lord's Name in vain is far out there that there is no doubt in my mind that you are indeed a member of a cult who came who to push Your cult's agenda.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

Many take the third commandment to mean that we should not use the Heavenly Father's name alongside a swear word or profanity. I could see where it certainly might mean this. Others say that taking His name on our lips while living a life of sin is another way of taking His name in vain. I agree with this also.

However, I have found that the third commandment means much more than this. Replacing the Heavenly Father's name with a title of our own choosing such as "the LORD", "GOD", "Adonai", or "Ha Shem" is another way of taking His name in vain. Let's look at the third commandment as written in the King James Bible:

Deuteronomy 5:11 "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold [him] guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

If we examine this verse in the Hebrew text that the King James Bible was translated from, we would not find "The LORD" or any word that carries such a meaning. What is actually there is the Heavenly Father's true name, "Yahweh". I believe it is important to consider whether or not this tradition is something the Heavenly Father would desire us to follow.

Let's take a moment and look at the Webster's dictionary definition of the word "vain":

vain 1. Having no real substance, value, or importance; empty; void; worthless; unsatisfying. ``Thy vain excuse.'' ... 2. Destitute of forge or efficacy; effecting no purpose; fruitless; ineffectual; as, vain toil; a vain attempt. ...

Considering the meaning of the word 'vain', what greater way to bring Yahweh's name to emptiness, worthlessness, and having no real substance, value or purpose than to remove His name altogether from scripture and substitute it with a title of our own choosing?

Those who have chosen to practice this are doing just that. This practice is so widespread and so complete that few people even know the Heavenly Father has a personal name. Yahweh chose to place His name in scripture nearly 7,000 times. And each one of those 7,000 times it is replaced with a title (such as "The LORD") in 99% of all translations. In fact, in most translations the third commandment (as written) is a transgression of itself! Why? Because the third commandment forbids bringing His name to nothing, yet most translations do just that.

To further demonstrate this point, let's look at the Hebrew word that is translated "vain" in this verse.

Deuteronomy 5:11 (KJV) Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy Elohim in vain <7723>: for Yahweh will not hold [him] guiltless that taketh his name in vain <7723>.

The number after the word "vain" in this passage refers to Strong's word #7723 in the Hebrew Lexicon. This same Hebrew word (#7723 'Shav') can also be found in another commandment just a few verses later. But in this instance, it is translated differently:
Deuteronomy 5:20 (KJV) Neither shalt thou bear false <7723> witness against thy neighbour.

Here we have the same Hebrew word <7723> translated "false." Might this shed light on the third commandment as well? We know that to say that the name of the Heavenly Father is "The LORD" is actually a false statement. Most translations are full of false statements. For instance, the King James Version reads:
Isaiah 42:8 - I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

The above is not a true statement. His name is not "the LORD". His name is Yahweh. "The LORD" is not a translation of the original, it is a substitution of the original. The translators did not translate, they purposely substituted the true name of the Heavenly Father for something else so that they could follow their tradition. It should instead read:

Isaiah 42:8 (RNKJV) I am Yahweh: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

So if we want to keep the ten commandments, we should never replace Yahweh's name with a false name or title of our own choosing. Doing so would be breaking the third commandment. This is not the only way to break the third commandment, but we can see that it is certainly one way of doing so. We are not supposed to add or take away from the scriptures. But in doing this, man has chosen to both add and take away.
Yahweh considered it important enough to include something about His name in the Ten Commandments. He considered it important enough to include a warning that we would not be held "guiltless" if we choose to break it. Therefore, in spite of what others may think, let's keep His commandments by restoring what Yahweh placed there originally. Let's set aside vain tradition and walk in the original truth of Yahweh... just as He inspired it.

Brother Tom

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

There are some who believe that the Messiah only referred to Yahweh as "The Father" or believe that Yahushua also followed the doctrine that states Yahweh's name is too holy to pronounce. But this was one of many false teachings coming out of that era. Yahushua flatly condemned those who would rather do things according to the "tradition of the elders" rather than the way Yahweh wanted them done.

It should be obvious to anyone that when Yahweh does something nearly 7,000 times.. that is the way He wants it to be done. He doesn't want us to come in later and change the way He has done things. Yet Yahweh placed His name in scripture nearly 7,000 times and the "tradition of the elders" is to replace His name each one of those 7,000 times with a title of man's own choosing (e.g. LORD, GOD, Adonai, HaShem, etc).

Before we look at Yahushua's example, let us first examine the meaning of the word "name" in scripture. It comes from the Hebrew word "Shem". Here is a definition of this word in the Strong's Lexicon:

Strong's # 8034 Shem; a primitive word [perhaps rather from 7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; compare 8064]; an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication honor, authority, character: - + base, [in-] fame[-ous], name[-d], renown, report.

As we can see from the above definition, Yahweh's name is not only represents His "character" but the Name Yahweh is also "His mark". Therefore the word "Shem"/Name refers to His literal written or spoken name as well as His character. If it did not refer to His literal written and spoken name then one could say that Yahweh does not have a written name at all. But we know that is not true:

Isai 42:8 (KJV) I am Yahweh: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

According to the above definition, His Name is also is His "memorial of individuality". This definition goes hand in hand with scripture:

Exodus 3:15 (KJV) And Elohim said moreover to Moses, Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel, Yahweh Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, hath sent me to you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial to all generations.

Man has set up may memorials for himself such as "The Wall" in Washington DC. If one were to go and desecrate that memorial and replace it with a bunch of different names, this person could expect to receive a great punishment for his crime. Now if we wouldn't desecrate one of man's memorials, then why would anyone want to desecrate Yahweh's Memorial - His Name? Do we have the authority to change scripture and replace His name with a title of our own liking? Surely the Messiah would not do this, especially when reading the scriptures in the Synagogue:

Luke 4:17 (NKJV) And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written: 18 "The Spirit of Yahweh [is] upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to [the] poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to [the] captives And recovery of sight to [the] blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; 19 To proclaim the acceptable year of Yahweh." 20 Then He closed the book, and gave [it] back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."

Let's examine some of the things the Messiah said concerning His Father's name:

John 5:43 (KJV) I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Again, we must recognize the dual meaning of the word "Name" here. Not only did He come by His Father's authority, but He also came in His Father's literal written and spoken name. This is proven when we understand the Messiah's name as "Yahushua" or "Yahweh (is) Salvation".

Peter (in Acts 3) confirmed that the following scripture was speaking of Yahushua:

Deut 18:18 (KJV) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him.

This is a direct statement saying that Yahushua did 'speak' in His Father's name. Surely then He did not hide it, substitute it, or change it. He spoke in it. Also it was written of our Savior:

Psalm 118:26 (KJV) Blessed [be] he that cometh in the name of Yahweh..

So here we have 3 witnesses that Yahushua did come in His Father's name and speak in His Father's name. Nevertheless, lets examine more evidence. In Yahushua's prayer in John 17 He says:

John 17:5 (KJV) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

And again:

John 17:26 (KJV) And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare [it]: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

This was a fulfillment of scripture in the great Psalm 22:

Psal 22:22 (KJV) I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

Scripture does not lie. If it says that Yahushua declared His name, He had to have done so. He not only declared His Father's literal and spoken name, but also His true character to the people. However, it is evident that not all had "ears to hear" concerning His Father's true character. Not unlike today, they had much baggage (traditions) left over from their Fathers. Yahushua clearly condemned the traditions that were not in line with Yahweh's word. As He had said:

Mark 7:9 (KJV) And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of Elohim, that ye may keep your own tradition.

One of the traditions was that Yahweh's name was too holy to pronounce.

The question might be asked "Why did Yahushua refer to Yahweh as "Father"? I believe that there are many scriptures that indicate the Messiah was also called "Yahweh" in the old testament. For instance:

Isai 44:6 (KJV) Thus saith Yahweh the King of Israel, and His redeemer Yahweh of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no El'.

Notice that there are two called "Yahweh" in this verse. 1) Yahweh, King of Israel and 2) Yahweh's Redeemer, "Yahweh of Hosts". This is one of many verses that refers to the Son by the name "Yahweh" (e.g. Jeremiah 23:5-6). It speaks to the fact that Yahweh's name is in Him.

Because He was called by His Father's name "Yahweh" in some scriptures, it is possible that one reason Yahushua often called Him "Father" was to show that He is to be distinguished from Yahweh the Father. This would assist in disproving any teaching that may later creep in that Yahushua was the Father (e.g. the "oneness" doctrine") rather than He being distinct from the Father. Perhaps I cannot directly prove this. Nevertheless since He was the Son of Yahweh, there would naturally be a greater frequency of Yahushua calling Yahweh "Father". The fact that He often called Him Father doesn't mean that He never called Him by His name, Yahweh. And of course it is not a wrong thing to call Yahweh by a title that fitly describes Him. He is our Father, our Creator, our Master, our King. The problem lies in replacing, changing and failing to praise, exalt, bless, love, teach, preach, anoint, assemble, believe, give thanks, honor and call on His name as scripture teaches us.

Now let's examine the trial in which Yahushua was sentenced to death.

Matt 26:64 (KJV) Yahushua saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

In light of these verses, it is fascinating to study the historical context of what was going on. Based on the above scripture, it is evident that the official charge against the Messiah was "blasphemy". The word "Power" in verse 64 was a popular 'euphemism' or substitution for the divine name Yahweh. Now according to the Mishna:

"He who blasphemes is liable only when he will have fully pronounced the Divine Name. Said R. Joshua ben Qorha, "on every day (of the trial) they examine the witnesses with a substituted name. When sentence was to be given they did not declare him guilty of death with the substituted name, but they put everyone out and ask the most important of the witnesses, saying to him, "Say, what exactly did you hear?" And he says what he heard. And the judges stand on their feet and tear their clothing, and they may not mend them again.(m.San. 7:5)"

Therefore, it is evident that historically no man could be sentenced for blasphemy unless he had actually spoken the Divine Name. This is further proven when we see that the High Priest "rent his clothes" upon hearing the name since Yahushua was his own witness (as he said "what further need have we of witnesses?").

Finally, there is strong evidence that Yahushua spoke the name aloud in Mt. 4:7; 4:10; 5:33; 21:42; 22:37 & 22:44. The Hebrew version DuTillet has 3 yods in the place of the name "Yahweh" and the Shem Tob has a "Heh" in those places. These all indicate He spoke the name since there is no Hebrew word with a single Heh or 3 consecutive Yod's. This is one of the multitude of attempts to falsify His name by those who believed in the ineffable name doctrine. The ineffable name doctrine states that Yahweh's name is too holy to pronounce. Clement of Alexandria did not hold to this doctrine, but others did like Jerome:

"For no one can utter the name of the ineffable deity; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. (I Apol.,61)"

"But to the father of all, who is unbegotten, there is no name given. For by whatever name he be called, he has as his elder the person who gives him the name. But these words, Father, and Deity, and Creator, and Lord, and Master, are not names but appelations derived from good deeds and functions. (II Apol., 6)"

With this in mind, it is no wonder that the manuscripts we have today do not contain the name. We know that the 'church fathers' quickly departed from the true Sabbath. It shouldn't be difficult to believe that they also quickly dropped the use of the true name of our Creator. It is very evident that the "ineffable name" doctrine is totally unscriptural. It flies in the face of scriptures like:

Exod 9:16 (KJV) And in very deed for this [cause] have I raised thee up, for to shew [in] thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

Isai 52:6a "My people shall know my name.."
Psalms 116:4 (KJV) Then I called upon the name of Yahweh; O Yahweh, I beseech thee, deliver my soul.
Psalms 116:13 (KJV) I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of Yahweh.
Psalms 116:17 (KJV) I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of Yahweh.
Isaiah 12:4 (KJV) And in that day shall ye say, Praise Yahweh, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.

I think it is better to trust in what the scriptures say concerning His name rather than trusting in the reasoning that "since the Greek manuscripts which we have today (which are not original) do not contain the name, it must not be important." The truth is that Greek copies of the Old Testament prior to the mid 2nd century DO contain the sacred name IN HEBREW within the text itself. Manuscripts found after that era replace the sacred name with "Kyrios". No new testament manuscripts prior to the mid-2nd century have ever been found with the possible exception of some fragments out of the book of John. In those fragments, there are no instances where the Yahweh's name is replaced with "Kyrios".

In the end, Yahweh's word will be the determining factor in what is right and what is wrong. Surely the scriptures declare the importance of His name. I will close with one final scripture:

Psalms 105:1 (KJV) O give thanks to Yahweh; call upon his name: make known his deeds among the people.

This last scripture is one of many instances where we are told to call on His name. We can be assured that the Perfect One, Yahushua the Messiah did just that.

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

Sister Betty stated:

quote:
For the record my Southern Baptist Preacher does believe that speaking tongues is for today. He has said that he doesn't have the gift of speaking in tongues but that he is for anything that God wants to give him.

My Pastor in Washington State also a Baptist Preacher said he spoke in tongues in private prayer every day.

Being raised in an Assembly of God Church, I don't think I could attend a Church that would say speaking in tongues is of the devil.

My Daughter attends a UP Church. Some of the Churches are getting away from thinking that you have to be filled with the Holy Spirit to be saved.
betty

The Southern Baptist Holy Spirit thread explains more.

they feel most of the "gifts" are not in use today.

At the beginning of the new school year, Dwight McKissic, pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, took issue with the International Mission Board policy refusing to appoint missionary candidates who engage in the contemporary Charismatic practice. As a recently-appointed trustee of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, McKissic preached a chapel message defending the practice of a private prayer language.

In the chapel message, McKissic boldly stated that speaking in tongues “is a valid [spiritual] gift for today” that has been embraced or accepted by a number of Baptist leaders and theologians.

Southwestern Seminary issued a statement that afternoon disagreeing with McKissic’s view – and his message was removed from the seminary’s Web site.

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

posted

For the record my Southern Baptist Preacher does believe that speaking tongues is for today. He has said that he doesn't have the gift of speaking in tongues but that he is for anything that God wants to give him.

My Pastor in Washington State also a Baptist Preacher said he spoke in tongues in private prayer every day.

Being raised in an Assembly of God Church, I don't think I could attend a Church that would say speaking in tongues is of the devil.

My Daughter attends a UP Church. Some of the Churches are getting away from thinking that you have to be filled with the Holy Spirit to be saved.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

This is a lot of info, some maybe hepful...i have not checked out every link so be careful:

I think this is history of the name.\\\

The Holy Name

"IESU" (pronounced [yesu] or [i-e-s-u] i as in bin, e as in set, u as oo in root) is the holy name above every name. This name has been used in the Bible for more than 1900 years. "Iesou" (pronounced [yesu] or [i-e-s-u]) was used in the original Greek New Testament. The Authorized Bible has the name "Iesus" from 1611 to 1628; year 1629 version has "Jesus" (letter I changed to J. "There was uncertainty about the upper-case distinction 'of letter I and J' even as late as the early 19th century." From The Cambridge Encyclopedia of The English Language, by David Crystal, Cambridge University Press, 1995, p.260.)

YHWH (or YHVH) is the name GOD unveiled in the Old Testament, which means "I AM WHO I AM" or "I will be what I will be." The One True God was manifested in the flesh with His holy name given to the Messiah. "Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name - the name you gave me - so that they may be one as we are one." (John 17:11b) His holy name was made known to the people (John 17:26a). When we speak of GOD we say, "The LORD" (We have only one true GOD, He is our LORD, the Creator of the universe.) When GOD came to this world as the Messiah, the holy name YAHSHUA (or YESHUA, YESUA, YEHOSHUA, YAHOOSHUA, etc. No one knows exactly how to correctly pronounce His name. No audio record ever exists) was announced by an angel of the LORD. YAHSHUA means "Yah saves; HE IS Salvation," "for He shall save His people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21b). The name YAHSHUA was "written" in Greek as Iesou (Iota-Eta-Sigma-Omicron-Upsilon, Iota in Greek capital letter is a I, Eta in Greek capital letter is a H, thus IHSOU(Y) was used, abbr. IHS; Sigma looks similar to a letter M turning 90 degrees to the left; Upsilon in Greek capital letter is a Y, in English small letter is a u; Iesou pronounced [ee-eh-s-oo], [ee] as in feet, [eh] as [ay] in say, [s] as in house, [oo] as in root - ou is a digraph, according to the Revised Pronunciation decided on by the Classical Association. Although the Greek language has changed as time has passed, and no one can be sure if this is "absolutely right," but [ee-eh-s-oo] or [yesu] is the pronunciation most commonly accepted.) The ending -s as in Iesous was used ONLY in nominative case. And the holy name was written in Latin up to the present day and in English 500 years ago as IESU (1535 Coverdale Bible.) "'I am the Alpha and the Omega,' says the LORD GOD, 'who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.'" (Revelation 1:8) "'Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.''You are not yet fifty years old,' the Jews said to him, 'and you have seen Abraham!''I tell you the truth,' Iesu answered, 'before Abraham was born, I AM!'" (John 8:56-58) The Messiah is the LORD GOD.

The holy name of the LORD GOD was "written" in Aramaic, Greek and Latin originally. This name does not start with a letter J but I. There was no letter J in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin, or even in English 500 years ago! When William Tyndale translated the Old Testament from Hebrew into English in 16th century, he made an incorrect translation "Jehovah" (Yehovah, from combining the consonants of "YHWH" with the vowels of "Adonai" - LORD); but when he translated the New Testament from Greek into English, he used IESU and IESUS to demonstrate the very proper Greek-ness of his terminology (Tyndale's New Testament, translated from Greek by William Tyndale in 1534, in a modern-spelling edition and with introduction by David Daniell, xviii & xxx.)

The Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition, Volume VIII, p.222 & p.223 provide the following information: "...Yet in Tindale's New Test., 1525-34, the form Iesu was generally used...This was, as a rule, retained by Coverdale 1535, and in the Great Bible 1539, also, in the vocative instances, in the Bishops' Bible 1568; but in representing the Greek oblique cases, this has Iesus. Iesu disappeared from the Geneva 1557 (exc. in one place)...In Middle English the name was rarely written in full, being usually represented by the abbreviations ihu, and ihc, ihs, ihus, or ih'u, etc...There have been commonly expanded by modern editors as Ihesu, Ihesus, forms which occur occasionally in Manuscripts and in early 16th c. printed books...1881 New Testament (Revised V.) John xii. 9 They came, not for Jesus' [1611 Iesus] sake only...1641 Sir E. DERING Sp. on Relig. xi.40 He is not afraid to call Christians Iesu-worshippers."

Welsh 'Iesu Grist' http://users.netmatters.co.uk/davidbryant/C/mainsite/Prayers/Prayersx.htm

http://orbis.library.yale.edu (Search for "IESU CHRIST" in Keyword (MUST use " ")

'I' changed to 'J'

Latin Vulgate uses Ih's; Latin Erasmus uses Iesus; Greek Erasmus uses Iesous; German Luther 1524 uses Ihesus; English Tyndale 1525 uses Iesus; English Wycliffe 1380 uses ihesus. (The First English New Testament And Luther, by L. Franklin Gruber, D. D., LL. D., Burlington, Iowa, 1928, p.111.) St. Augustine (354-430) uses Latin name IESU. The original English Authorized Version 1611 uses Iesu & Iesus, and Authorized Bible 1628 uses Iesus, but uses Jesus in 1629! (In the Flora Lamson Hewlett Library, Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley and in the San Francisco Theological Seminary Library, San Anselmo, California, people can examine these original Bibles.)

In the modern development of the Roman alphabet, the ninth letter has been split into two, I and J. "Introduced around 1600, upper-case J was not generally distinguished from I for another 200 years." (The Oxford Companion to the English Language, ed. by Tom McArthur, Oxford University Press, 1992, see Alphabet J.) Most likely, in the beginning of changing IESU & IESUS to JESUS, the letter J in JESUS has the sound of [y], as J in the word HALLELUJAH. German today also pronounces Jesus as [yesus]. Old French used IESU too. Because the letter I changed to J, the modern English, Spanish, Italian, German, and French, etc., have very different pronunciations of the Holy name.

No one can really know how the Lord's name was pronounced at New Testament time. However, the way people "write or print" is the evidence we can examine today. The names Iesou, Iesous, Iesu, Iesus, Ihesus, or IHS, Ih's, etc. (All starts with a letter I) existed more than 1900 years! On the other hand, Jesus was the new word created only less than 400 years ago! Which one should we choose? Of course we know that the most important thing is to believe in the Son of GOD, the Savior of mankind, His teachings, His deeds, His love, His blood, His death, His resurrection, His salvation, etc. However, when we already have all the basic beliefs, which name should we choose? Iesu or Jesus? Shall we follow the majority? Shall we follow the trend? Shall we say, "Well, it's a mistake made about 400 years ago." or "It is only a result of the evolutional process of the English language."

Samoan 'Iesu' http://www.acm.ndsu.nodak.edu/NDSU_Christian/tracts/ftl/ne/710.htm

'Our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ' in Authorized Bible (1611)

KJV 1611 Original verbage:

King James Version
also called Authorized Version
1611 Miles Smith and Thomas Bilson, editors
Matthew Chapter 1
Mat 1:1 The booke of the generation of Iesus Christ, the sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.
Mat 1:2 Abraham begate Isaac, and Isaac begate Iacob, and Iacob begate Iudas and his brethren.
Mat 1:3 And Iudas begate Phares and Zara of Thamar, and Phares begate Esrom, and Esrom begate Aram.
Mat 1:4 And Aram begate Aminadab, and Aminadab begate Naasson, and Naasson begate Salmon.
Mat 1:5 And Salmon begat Boos of Rachab, and Boos begate Obed of Ruth, and Obed begate Iesse.
Mat 1:6 And Iesse begate Dauid the King, & Dauid the King begat Solomon of her that had bin the wife of Urias.
Mat 1:7 And Solomon begat Roboam, and Roboam begate Abia, and Abia begate Asa.
Mat 1:8 And Asa begate Iosaphat, and Iosaphat begate Ioram, and Ioram begate Ozias.
Mat 1:9 And Ozias begat Ioatham, and Ioatham begate Achas, and Achas begate Ezekias.
Mat 1:10 And Ezekias begate Manasses, and Manasses begate Amon, and Amon begate Iosias.
Mat 1:11 And Iosias begate Iechonias and his brethren, about the time they were caried away to Babylon.
Mat 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Iechonias begat Salathiel, and Salathiel begate Zorobabel.
Mat 1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud, and Abiud begat Eliakim, and Eliakim begate Azor.
Mat 1:14 And Azor begat Sadoc, & Sadoc begat Achim, and Achim begat Eliud.
Mat 1:15 And Eliud begate Eleazar, and Eleazar begate Matthan, and Matthan begate Iacob.
Mat 1:16 And Iacob begate Ioseph the husband of Mary, of whom was borne Iesus, who is called Christ.
Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to Dauid, are fourteene generations: and from Dauid vntill the carying away into Babylon, are foureteene generations: and from the carying away into Babylon vnto Christ, are fourteene generations.
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Iesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Ioseph (before they came together) shee was found with childe of the holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Ioseph her husband being a iust man, and not willing to make her a publique example, was minded to put her away priuily.
Mat 1:20 But while hee thought on these things, behold, the Angel of the Lord appeared vnto him in a dreame, saying, Ioseph thou sonne of Dauid, feare not to take vnto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceiued in her, is of the holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a sonne, and thou shalt call his Name Iesus: for hee shall saue his people from their sinnes.
Mat 1:22 (Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the Prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a Uirgin shall be with childe, and shall bring foorth a sonne, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted, is, God with vs.)
Mat 1:24 Then Ioseph, being raised from sleepe, did as the Angel of the Lord had bidden him, & tooke vnto him his wife:
Mat 1:25 And knewe her not, till shee had brought forth her first borne sonne, and he called his name Iesus.

Coverdale Bible
1535 by Miles Coverdale
Matthew Chapter 1
Mat 1:1 This is the boke of the generacion of Iesus Christ ye sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.
Mat 1:2 Abraha begat Isaac: Isaac begat Iacob: Iacob begat Iudas & his brethre:
Mat 1:3 Iudas begat Phares & Zara of Thamar: Phares begat Hesrom: Hesrom begat Aram:
Mat 1:4 Aram begat Aminadab: Aminadab begat Naasson: Naasson begat Salmon:
Mat 1:5 Salmon begat Boos of Rahab: Boos begat Obed of Ruth: Obed begat Iesse:
Mat 1:6 Iesse begat Dauid the kynge: Dauid the kynge begat Salomon, of her that was the wyfe of Vry:
Mat 1:7 Salomon begat Roboam: Roboam begat Abia: Abia begat Asa:
Mat 1:8 Asa begat Iosaphat: Iosaphat begat Ioram: Ioram begat Osias:
Mat 1:9 Osias begat Ioatham: Ioatham begat Achas: Achas begat Ezechias:
Mat 1:10 Ezechias begat Manasses: Manasses begat Amon: Amon begat Iosias:
Mat 1:11 Iosias begat Iechonias and his brethren aboute the tyme of the captiuyte of Babylon.
Mat 1:12 And after the captiuyte of Babylon, Iechonias begat Salathiel: Salathiel begat Zorobabel:
Mat 1:13 Zorobabel begat Abiud: Abiud begat Eliachim: Eliachim begat Azor:
Mat 1:14 Azor begat Sadoc: Sadoc begat Achin: Achin begat Eliud:
Mat 1:15 Eliud begat Eleasar: Eleasar begat Matthan: Matthan begat Iacob:
Mat 1:16 Iacob begat Ioseph the hussbande of Mary, of who was borne that Iesus, which is called Christ.
Mat 1:17 All the generacions from Abraha to Dauid are fourtene generacions: From Dauid vnto the captiuite of Babylon, are fourtene generacions. From the captiuite of Babylon vnto Christ, are also fourtene generacions.
Mat 1:18 The byrth of Christ was on thys wyse: When his mother Mary was maried to Ioseph before they came together, she was foude with chylde by ye holy goost,
Mat 1:19 But Ioseph her hussbande was a perfect man, and wolde not bringe her to shame, but was mynded to put her awaie secretely.
Mat 1:20 Neuertheles whyle he thus thought, beholde, the angell of the LORDE appered vnto him in a dreame, saynge: Ioseph thou sonne of Dauid, feare not to take vnto the Mary thy wyfe. For that which is coceaued in her, is of ye holy goost.
Mat 1:21 She shall brynge forth a sonne, and thou shalt call his name Iesus. For he shall saue his people from their synnes.
Mat 1:22 All this was done, yt the thinge might, be fulfilled, which was spoken of the LORDE by the Prophet, saynge:
Mat 1:23 Beholde, a mayde shall be with chylde, and shall brynge forth a sonne, and they shall call his name Emanuel, which is by interpretacion, God wt vs.
Mat 1:24 Now whan Ioseph awoke out of slepe he did as the angell of ye LORDE bade hym, and toke his wyfe vnto hym,
Mat 1:25 and knewe her not, tyll she had brought forth hir fyrst borne sonne, and called his name Iesus.

The Geneva Bible
1587 by William Whittingham
Matthew Chapter 1
Mat 1:1 The booke of the generation of Iesvs Christ the sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.
Mat 1:2 Abraham begate Isaac. And Isaac begate Iacob; Iacob begat Iudas and his brethren.
Mat 1:3 And Iudas begate Phares, and Zara of Thamar; Phares begate Esrom; Esrom begate Aram.
Mat 1:4 And Aram begate Aminadab; Aminadab begate Naasson; Naasson begat Salmon.
Mat 1:5 And Salmon begate Booz of Rachab; Booz begat Obed of Ruth; Obed begat Iesse.
Mat 1:6 And Iesse begate Dauid the King; Dauid the King begate Solomon of her that was the wife of Vrias.
Mat 1:7 And Solomon begate Roboam; Roboam begate Abia; Abia begate Asa.
Mat 1:8 And Asa begate Iosaphat; Iosaphat begate Ioram; Ioram begate Hozias.
Mat 1:9 And Hozias begat Ioatham; Ioatham begate Achaz; Achaz begate Ezekias.
Mat 1:10 And Ezekias begate Manasses; Manasses begate Amon; Amon begate Iosias.
Mat 1:11 And Iosias begate Iakim; Iakim begate Iechonias and his brethren about the time they were caried away to Babylon.
Mat 1:12 And after they were caried away into Babylon, Iechonias begate Salathiel. And Salathiel begate Zorobabel.
Mat 1:13 And Zorobabel begate Abiud; Abiud begate Eliacim; Eliacim begate Azor.
Mat 1:14 And Azor begate Sadoc; Sadoc begate Achim; Achim begate Eliud.
Mat 1:15 And Eliud begate Eleazar; Eleazar begate Matthan; Matthan begate Iacob.
Mat 1:16 And Iacob begat Ioseph ye husbad of Mary, of whom was borne Iesvs, that is called Christ.
Mat 1:17 So all the generations fro Abraham to Dauid, are fourtene generations; fro Dauid vntil they were caried away into Babylon, fourtene generations: and after they were caried away into Babylon vntill Christ, fourteene generations.
Mat 1:18 Nowe the birth of Iesvs Christ was thus, When as his mother Mary was betrothed to Ioseph, before they came together, shee was found with childe of the holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Ioseph her husbande being a iust man, and not willing to make her a publike example, was minded to put her away secretly.
Mat 1:20 But whiles he thought these things, behold, the Angel of the Lorde appeared vnto him in a dreame, saying, Ioseph, the sonne of Dauid, feare not to take Mary thy wife: for that which is conceiued in her, is of the holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring foorth a sonne, and thou shalt call his name Iesvs: for hee shall saue his people from their sinnes.
Mat 1:22 And al this was done that it might be fulfilled, which is spoken of the Lord by ye Prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgine shalbe with childe, and shall beare a sonne, & they shal call his name Emmanuel, which is by interpretation, God with vs.
Mat 1:24 Then Ioseph, being raised from sleepe, did as the Angel of the Lorde had inioyned him, and tooke his wife.
Mat 1:25 But he knew her not, til she had broght forth her first borne sonne, & he called his name Iesus.

The Great Bible
also called Cranmer Bible
1540 Miles Coverdale editor
Matthew Chapter 1
Mat 1:1 Thys ys þe booke of the generacyon of Iesus Chryst, þe sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.
Mat 1:2 Abraham begat Isaac. Isaac begat Iacob. Iacob begat Iudas and hys brethren.
Mat 1:3 Iudas begat Phares and Zaram of Thamar. Phares begat Esrom. Esrom begat Aram.
Mat 1:4 Aram begat Aminadab. Aminadab begat Naasson. Naasson begat Salmon.
Mat 1:5 Salmon begat Boos of Rahab. Boos begat Obed of Ruth. Obed begat Iesse.
Mat 1:6 Iesse begat Dauid the kynge. Dauid the kynge begat Salomon, of her that was the wyfe of Urye.
Mat 1:7 Salomon begat Roboam. Roboam begat Abia. Abia begat Asa.
Mat 1:8 Asa begat Iosaphat. Iosaphat begat Ioram. Ioram begat Osias.
Mat 1:9 Osias begat Ioatham. Ioatham begat Achas. Achas begat Ezechias.
Mat 1:10 Ezechias begat Manasses. Manasses begat Amon. Amon begat Iosias.
Mat 1:11 Iosias begat Ieconias and hys brethren about the tyme they were caryed awaye to Babylon.
Mat 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Iechonias begat Salathiel. Salathiel begat Zorobabel.
Mat 1:13 Zorobabel begat Abiud. Abiud begat Eliachim. Eliachim begat Azor.
Mat 1:14 Azor begat Sadoc. Sadoc begat Achin. Achin begat Eliud.
Mat 1:15 Eliud begat Eleasar. Eleasar begat Matthan: Matthan begat Iacob.
Mat 1:16 Iacob begat Ioseph the husbande of Mary, of whom was borne Iesus, euen he that is called Chryst.
Mat 1:17 And so all the generacyons from Abraham to Dauid, are fourtene generacyons. And from Dauid vnto the captyuyte of Babylon, are fourtene generacyons. And from the captiuyte of Babylon vnto Christ, are fourtene generacyons.
Mat 1:18 The byrth of Iesus Chryst was on this wyse. When his mother Mary was maryed to Ioseph (before they came to dwell togeather) she was founde with chylde by the holy ghoost.
Mat 1:19 Then Ioseph her husbande (because he was a ryghteous man, and wolde not put her to shame) he was mynded preuely to departe from her.
Mat 1:20 But whyll he thus thought, beholde, the aungell of the Lorde appeared vnto hym in slepe, saying: Ioseph, thou sonne of Dauid: feare not to take vnto the Mary thy wyfe. For that which is conceaued in her, cometh of the holy ghost.
Mat 1:21 She shall brynge forth a sonne, and thou shalt cal hys name Iesus. For he shall saue his people from theyr synnes.
Mat 1:22 Al this was done, þt it might be fulfilled, which was spoken of the Lord by þe prophet, saying:
Mat 1:23 Behold, a mayd shalbe wt chylde, & shall bring forth a sonne, & they shall call his name Emanuel, which yf a man interpret, it is asmoch to say as God with vs.
Mat 1:24 And Ioseph as sone as he awoke out of slepe, dyd as the angel of the Lorde had bydden hym: and he toke hys wyfe vnto hym,
Mat 1:25 & knewe her not, tyll she had brought forth her fyrst begotten sonne, and called his name Iesus.

Tyndale Bible
1534 by William Tyndale
Matthew Chapter 1
Mat 1:1 This is the boke of the generacion of Iesus Christ the sonne of Dauid the sonne also of Abraham.
Mat 1:2 Abraham begat Isaac: Isaac begat Iacob: Iacob begat Iudas and his brethren:
Mat 1:3 Iudas begat Phares and zaram of Thamar: Phares begat Hesrom: Hesrom begat Aram:
Mat 1:4 Aram begat Aminadab: Aminadab begat Naasson: Naasson begat Salmon:
Mat 1:5 Salmon begat Boos of Rahab: Boos begat Obed of Ruth: Obed begat Iesse:
Mat 1:6 Iesse begat Dauid the kynge: Dauid the kynge begat Salomon of her that was the wyfe of Vry:
Mat 1:7 Salomon begat Roboam: Roboam begat Abia: Abia begat Asa:
Mat 1:8 Asa begat Iosaphat: Iosaphat begat Ioram: Ioram begat Osias:
Mat 1:9 Osias begat Ioatham: Ioatham begat Achas: Achas begat Ezechias:
Mat 1:10 Ezechias begat Manasses: Manasses begat Amon: Amon begat Iosias:
Mat 1:11 Iosias begat Iechonias and his brethren aboute ye tyme they were caryed awaye to Babylon.
Mat 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon Iechonias begat Salathiel: Salathiel begat Zorobabel:
Mat 1:13 Zorobabel begat Abiud: Abiud begat Eliachim: Eliachim begat Azor:
Mat 1:14 Azor begat Sadoc: Sadoc begat Achin: Achin begat Eliud:
Mat 1:15 Eliud begat Eleasar: Eleasar begat Matthan: Matthan begat Iacob:
Mat 1:16 Iacob begat Ioseph the husbande of Mary of which was boren that Iesus that is called Christ.
Mat 1:17 All the generacions from Abraham to David are fowretene generacios. And fro David vnto the captivite of Babylon are fowretene generacions. And from the captivite of Babylon vnto Christ are also fowrtene generacios.
Mat 1:18 The byrthe of Iesus Christ was on thys wyse. When hys mother Mary was betrouthed to Ioseph before they came to dwell to gedder she was foude with chylde by ye holy goost.
Mat 1:19 The Ioseph her husbande beinge a perfect ma and loth to make an ensample of hir was mynded to put her awaye secretely.
Mat 1:20 Whill he thus thought behold ye angell of ye Lorde appered vnto him in a dreame saynge: Ioseph ye sonne of David feare not to take vnto ye Mary thy wyfe. For that which is coceaved in her is of the holy goost.
Mat 1:21 She shall brynge forthe a sonne and thou shalt call his name Iesus. For he shall save his peple from their synnes.
Mat 1:22 All this was done to fulfill yt which was spoken of the Lorde by the Prophet saynge:
Mat 1:23 Beholde a mayde shall be with chylde and shall brynge forthe a sonne and they shall call his name Emanuel which is by interpretacion God with vs.
Mat 1:24 And Ioseph assone as he awoke out of slepe did as the angell of the Lorde bade hym and toke hys wyfe vnto hym
Mat 1:25 and knewe her not tyll she had brought forth hir fyrst sonne and called hys name Iesus.

barry

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

posted

God bless you Brother Barry and what a blessing for you to share your testimony. Thank you.

We have much in common in regards to origins of faith in that I too started out in a UPC, and left over their tongues mandate.

It was Jacob O. Meyer and the Sacred Name Broadcaster, which I once listened to and received their magazine.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

my statement was:

quote:
i know of just about all that is on you list Sister Carol; and i know of at least one group associated with the bible lists that you made believe that if youhave not had "hands laid" on by them you dont have the Holy Spirit..

Sister Betty states:

quote:
do not believe that. I believe that the Holy Spirit comes upon you the moment you get saved. I do believe in the infilling of the Holy Spirit and in speaking in tongues. I have prayed for the gift but not been given it but just because I don't have the gift doesn't take away the existence of it. I don't have a plane, but planes exist.

I too believe what you said Sister; i did not imply [i thought they were right]; contrary i was replying i thought they were a cult...Jacob O'Myer and the Sacred name Broadcaster, the reason i think this is because they state if your not a part of "their" group your not going to heaven... i not only believe this is wrong i teacha against such.

As far as "putting" down every one's belief, that is not what im trying to do. i see scriptures that prove [im my veiw] things wrong with some people's doctrine, and i seek answer for that.

If a scripture is contrary to what any of us belief, either we do not understand that scripture or our doctrine may not be quite right.

Ive been born of YHWH's spirit for over 27 years, ive seen a "lot" in the name of "religion" and was told that i just need to "accept" what is mainstream.. i cant dear Sister, if i cannot see it clear in scripture, i dont accept it. Maybe its because im not [smart] spiritually, or i have no education, i dont know. But truthfully Sister Betty would you appreciate me just "accepting" things to please folks, or so as not to "cause waves"?

i would think not, i would that we could all be sitting at the coffe table discussing these matters, for it is hard to show exactly what one is feeling on this board.

i have went to many "churches" seeking fellowship with true believers, and have found a number of folks i feel "truly saved" and living
for YHWH.[GOD}

BUT they could not fellowship with each other...WHY?

First UPC [united pentecostal church], states you must speak in tongues or you have not the Spirit the Holy Spirit of GOD!.

Second [my Mother has been Southern Baptist for over 60 something years] They believe "tongues" are not for today (for that which is perfect is come [KJV Bible] tongues was done away with. If one was now to speack with "other" tongues it must be a counterfit of satan!

Ok these two "BROTHERS" that are truly saved cannot fellowship...thinking one another is not even saved......DENOMINATIONS.....are DIVISION!

Sowhat then? whose right?

Both are wrong.............Tongues are for today...does everyone speak with tongues NO

i cried over this for some 5 years!...i never spokle in tongues...church folks were telling me i wasnt saved, they told me from hours and hours i speant at the altar seeking "tongues" they would say "dont speak in english, just let yourself go and youll get it "tongues" (to them the Holy Ghost)!

Finally i was weeping and crying out to my Father YHWH in heaven, Father what is wrong with me, why o why wont you let me speak in tongues???? they are saying im "NOT" saved.....

i know Father what you did for me in Jan 18, 1983; you saved my miserable hyde, my lost sinful soul and brought me into your marvelous light! Father...abba...help me.

AND

i cannot say "audible" but one of the most clearest voices i have EVER heard. Heard these words...
SON, CAN I SAVE A FILL A MAN WITH MY SPIRIT........THAT HAS NO TONGUE?

i said o yes my Father for all things are possible with you........so i went back to some of those "churches" telling them what Father YHWH said: they told me "If God decided to save a man, "without a tongue" he would give him a new tongue so he could speak in tongues...i wept, they did not see, nor did they hear...EVEN tho they had ears and eyes.....

i went to a very famous Preacher i knew and sat under his "Assb. of God" ministries and was discussing it wiht him...he said and has preached this many times, If a man is saved and has not spoke in tongues he will on the way up in the ressuurection..............i went away sad.

My point is that just because one has "learned" something in a body of believers that they feel comfortable with and fellowship with.....AT LEAST dear saints let me admonish you to "check it out" SEEK GOD , search the scriptures.

we cannot ever say" Well my church, my demonination, my grandmother has always believed that, and expect to be ok with our Heavenly Father, NO NO NO, we must seek these things out FOR OURSELVES.

BECAUSE dear precious saint's of GOD ALMIGHTY [YHWH]

There is a way that seemeth right unto MAN but the end thereof is DEATH!

Study to show ourselves approved, a workman that need not be ashamed. (with out white robe)

We dont want to be "given over to believe a lie" and be dam ned!

So if i seem hard, im sorry, i mostly see things "like" [not a prophet] a prophet...black or white...no gray.

up , down...left right...etc.

Pray for me, i do accept any and all prayers, i layed down why i see things as i do, and what my heart is on the matter...

love barry
For to "get" comfortable and listen to many of the "pillow" prophetsw of today...they will lead you astray!

i

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

Even on this board ive been told i would make a "good Atheist"

I said that because I have known "good Atheist" and have witnessed their use of many of the arguments that you have put forward to create a doubt in the mind of the reader in order to further a opinion..

The Darby dart is one such post. I suppose you too would cringe if you put some time in on a Atheist Board promoting Christ and coming here and reading the very same arguments generated there.

I should of said that your post would make "good Atheist" ammo.

I apologize for my misguided response.

In Christ,
WK G

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

posted

i know of just about all that is on you list Sister Carol; and i know of at least one group associated with the bible lists that you made believe that if youhave not had "hands laid" on by them you dont have the Holy Spirit..
----------------------

I do not believe that. I believe that the Holy Spirit comes upon you the moment you get saved. I do believe in the infilling of the Holy Spirit and in speaking in tongues. I have prayed for the gift but not been given it but just because I don't have the gift doesn't take away the existence of it. I don't have a plane, but planes exist.

When you come on a board and put down everyone's beliefs and imply that you are some how superior ( don't bother to deny it), then do not be surprised when feathers are ruffled.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

i know of just about all that is on you list Sister Carol; and i know of at least one group associated with the bible lists that you made believe that if youhave not had "hands laid" on by them you dont have the Holy Spirit..

Hog wash..[pardon the pun]

If i was arrogant enough and prideful enough to suggest that i [know] exactly what way to pronouce YHWH's name and that of His Son Yahushua's name and those who do not so do are not saved because "there is no other name under heaven by which men must be saved" i would have probably in no doubt condemned myself!

Where most of us do err is in perhaps two ways; accepting the "norms" of current day religion, without even honestly looking at the possibility that we could not have all the facts right; and finding a "part" of the puzzle and building a doctrine around that part of truth we have found, condemning everyone else. Both do err!

There is a new doctrine [false] probably everyday, i feel i know you have heard [dont throw the baby out with the bath water].

i am not now, no have ever been associated with the 7th day adventists. Do they have truth amoung them, yes. Do i think they are doctrinally correct on all points...certainly not!

Even on this board ive been told i would make a "good Atheist", ive been here on this one since 2002; on the other board before David started this board with David.

i was a Moderator, i ask to be removed , because of the time that it took to earnestly put in and my family [small children] needed my attention.

i love Brother David and appreciate all he has done, and the sacrifices that most of you will never know to keep this board alive.

You can ask Brother David, he will be the first to tell you he does not see everything like i do and we disagree on many points; but he has never [to me] questioned my love for YHWH God nor the people on this board. Outside of 2 - 3 people i dont know anyone personally on this board.

Becausehelives, Brother Dale i have known perhaps over 30 years. Do we agreen on everything...no mam we dont; but we have a love for each other and we have "contended for the faith" to each other many times. Such as Peter and Paul did. Sometimes me being in error and sometimes he being in error, and sometimes both!

[Smile]

i love him and in 30 years have NEVER EVER questioned his sincereity nor love of God.

i said all that to say this, i believe what i perceive is what God [YHWH] has shown me, am i arrogant enough to believe i have it "all" straight? certainly not!

many times i thought it was all lining up and Brother Dale, Brother Drew, Brother David, Brother Thunder7, Sister Kindgo, Sister HelpforHomeschoolers, et.el; have shown me the error of my way. {i appreciate them greatly}

i have NEVER tried to start trouble, or be against the flow for my own agenda, thats not me; if i post i believe it, or wanting comment upon the post to shed further light to me.

Thanks for the time, and im sorry if i rambled, but it is hard for any of us to really see the "heart" of a person in a message board.

love
barry

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

The information I posted on the False Teaching board about the Sacred Name Cult was not meant to point fingers at anyone here. But it's good to know about these different cults and extremists, and their books.

Here's a list of some of the books they use:

The Holy Name Bible
The Restored Name King James Version
The Sacred Name King James Version
The Book Of Yahweh
The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible
The Sacred Scriptures, Bethel Edition

For many sacred namers, a secondary concern is the disparagement, in varying degrees, of the name of Jesus. This disparagement extends to Chr_stians and Chr_stianity (sic) for refusing to use the Hebrew only sacred names and for being full of "pagan practices".

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

posted

God bless you;

I had forgotten all about the sacred namers. I appreciate Brother Bill bringing it up, and Sis Carol Copycat... [Wink]

I was looking into some of their stuff 20 years ago, and what truly bothered me was their changing the Word of God to insert the Sacred Names throughout. It reminded me a great deal of what the Jehovah's Witnesses did with "Jehovah" in their New World Translation. It made the short-hairs stand up, with a major check in my spirit.

I won't receive teaching based upon wrested/manipulated scriptures from anyone!!!

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

Lol- Glory hound...

I didnt think you would mind me sliding over some of your info to this post for effect.

Sign- Copy Cat

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

quote:
Originally posted by WildB:

The AntiMessiah Deception of the Sacred Name Cult

Sacred Namers are a group largely professing to be Torah Observant Gentiles, who believe that the only source of power and righteousness in creation is the use (and frequent use at that) of the Holy Name which the Creator gave to Moses on Mount Sinai. This group routinely pronounces anyone who does not use their terminology and their "correct" pronunciation of the name of G-d as Pagan. There is a deeply troubling quasi-psychotic hatred which can be easily found in these groups. Any word of term which is English or Greek is considered to be Pagan in origin. Even common words such as "Sacred", "Holy", or "G-d" will instantly brand you as a pagan idolater who has no hope of redemption.

The history of the Sacred Name Cults shows them to be derived of the Millerite sects, the Adventists and the Church of God, and thus from the false prophet William Miller who prophesied the return of Jesus in 1843 and made a subsequent false prophecy concerning 1845. Though his group self destructed by the mid 19th century the followers became the Adventists and later Church of God sects, preserving the strict legalism and false prophetic bents of the original group.

These groups are founded on hatred and bitterness and a private interpretation of the scriptures which does not bear up to close scrutiny by the Word of G-d. Though claiming to be Torah Observant Messianics they like the Pharisees use their personal interpretation of Torah as a weapon to condemn all others and so miss the heart of Torah completely choosing to judge and condemn instead of loving their neighbor as themselves.

How to Respond to the Sacred Namer

Turn their own doctrine back at them

1. "There is no other name given under heaven amongst men by which we must be saved"

2. Jesus is the name of the Messiah in English, this we know for certain. Y'shua is a Hebrew equivalent as is Yoshua... but YAHShua? Never heard of him... it is neither English nor Greek nor even Hebrew, it is an invention of Americans who came out of a sect of the Christian Church... a sect that rejects the very religion it came from as being pagan.

3. Paul preached the unknown G-d and never once during that sermon mentioned the name of G-d, how was anyone saved?

4. You do not know the name of the redeemer so by your own doctrine you are condemned

5. You do not know the person of the redeemer because you practice unrighteous judgment based on your own false understanding of the name of G-d therefore according to the Living Torah as given by Y'shua himself, you are a stone white sepulcher full of dead men's bones. Repent of your sins and come to Messiah... learn of the person through his Word (Davar) and his Ruach (Spirit) and you shall receive the FREE GIFT of ETERNAL Salvation.

copycat

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

posted

quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
wildb as usuall you miss my point;

i did not now nor have EVER stated that a person was not forgiven or saved using the name of Jesus:

What is your prob Brother?

Why do you assume the worst of my posts?

Am i not presenting my point or something?

i did not nor would i even ask you that question.

I probably should have ask Brother Drew in a pm.

i could quote many encyclopedias that say HIS name is YHWH or as some pronounce YahWeH, and HIS SOn is Yahushua.

Its very common knowledge Brother Bill, its not something that i have just dreamed up.

i gotta go to work...sorry posts offended you.
bondservant

Nor have you EVER stated that a person is forgiven or eternally saved using the name of Jesus.

Your post don't offend me they sadden me.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35

posted

wildb as usuall you miss my point;

i did not now nor have EVER stated that a person was not forgiven or saved using the name of Jesus:

What is your prob Brother?

Why do you assume the worst of my posts?

Am i not presenting my point or something?

i did not nor would i even ask you that question.

I probably should have ask Brother Drew in a pm.

i could quote many encyclopedias that say HIS name is YHWH or as some pronounce YahWeH, and HIS SOn is Yahushua.

Its very common knowledge Brother Bill, its not something that i have just dreamed up.

i gotta go to work...sorry posts offended you.
bondservant

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

posted

quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Brother Drew why do you call the Son of YHWH, Jesus...

Not being unkind nor foolish, im curious; as i explained why i call Him Yahushua.

i like the above post on the names like Jireh, and what all is in YHWH's character...

barry

God bless you Barry;

The New Testament was written in Greek, and so the name of the Lamb of God, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah my Lord and my God would have been written in the original manuscripts as Ιησους(Iēsoûs) Χριστος(Christós), and read as such in the early Church.

If I use the name of Jesus I am merely using the English translation of the name divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, through the Apostles, authors of the original manuscripts.

JESUS: Derived from the Hebrew "Joshua" (Y'shua) or "Je-Hoshua" meaning JEHOVAH IS SALVATION.

CHRIST: is equivalent to the Hebrew 'Messiah' (Meshiach), "The Anointed One."

Other NT Titles for Jesus: Shepherd of the Sheep; Master; King of kings; Lord of lords; Bishop and Guardian of our Souls; Daystar, Deliverer, Advocate, Second Adam, Ancient of Days, Branch, Chief Cornerstone, Immanuel, First Born, Head of the Body, Physician, Rock, Root of Jesse, Stone, Potentate; Chief Apostle; Great High Priest; Pioneer and Perfecter of our Faith (or Author and Finisher); Lamb of God; Lamb Slain before the Foundation of the World; Lord God Almighty.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

New Message Boards - Click Here