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Author
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Topic: The Biblical Balance
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yeshuaslavejeff
Advanced Member
Member # 4506
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posted
It is possible, maybe likely, that the -isms are forms of idolatry and selfishness, not any kind of balance of Godliness at all.
If people put their faith in a man, they have already failed, as Jesus told the Apostles - even if the Apostles had trusted themselves to be saved, or to be able to work out their salvation, Jesus said that would be a failure from the start.
No man's own faith is able to make that man born again. Nothing a man does can save himself, nor his own son, even if he were one of the three great men of faith in Scripture.
The only way to be born again is by the Will of the Father in Heaven, not by any means nor methods of man, nor of the flesh, nor of blood.
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1Peter4:1,2 Yeshua suffered physical suffering:disciples have same mind/ willingness to share shame/physical suffering with Yeshua/His people.
Biblio:"willtherealhereticsplease standup?"byBercot(churchTruth)
Posts: 75 | From: tulsa | Registered: Mar 2005
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Conversion Begins With God: The blind man did not initiate his healing, Jesus did.
Yes, Jesus put the mud on his eyes. But the man was still blind until he responded in faith and obedience by washing in the pool. How many times did Jesus tell people "Your faith has healed you?"
Matthew 13:57 - 58 (NLT)
57 And they were deeply offended and refused to believe in him. Then Jesus told them, “A prophet is honored everywhere except in his own hometown and among his own family.” 58 And so he did only a few miracles there because of their unbelief.
Now He comes to people in the Word and the Spirit. Only those who believe are saved. Unbelievers are not.
Revelation 3:20 (NLT)
Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door , I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends.
quote:
Yes they were invited, but many are invited and don’t accept the invitation. We see this all the time. Many are called, but few are chosen, Mat 22:14
Sad but true.
quote:
Regeneration is Christ coming in and removing sin and replacing it with righteousness.
Regeneration is to be born again. "Removing sin and replacing it with righteousness" is called Justification.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
But I guess we differ when it comes to regeneration because I believe that regeneration comes the moment after faith and repentance. The moment we believe, we are born again. The Holy Spirit speaks through the Word of God, and He speaks through powerful sermons, and He softens the hearts of men, but He does not regenerate anyone who has not accepted our Lord Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior.
You said in an earlier post, Carol,
"Conversion Begins With God: The blind man did not initiate his healing, Jesus did."
Conversion and regeneration is the same thing.
Regeneration is Christ coming in and removing sin and replacing it with righteousness.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=72307145216
Blodbought said,
"Those who hear the gospel and use earthly things as an excuse not to accept Christ were never intended to be children of the Kingdom"
Carol said
"They were invited."
Yes they were invited, but many are invited and don’t accept the invitation. We see this all the time. Many are called, but few are chosen, Mat 22:14
God bless.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Perceptual Foreknowledge
God knows, before a human being is born, whether that person will freely choose to believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. In this theory, man is the primary cause of salvation, and God’s election is based on forseeing who will place their faith in Him.
Deterministic Foreknowledge
God chose or determined, before a human being is born, whether that person will be saved by Jesus Christ. In this theory, God is the primary cause of salvation.
Perceptual Foreknowledge is seen as the traditional Arminian perspective.
Deterministic Foreknowledge is seen as the traditional Calvinism perspective.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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John Hale
unregistered
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posted
Both banks do not take the omniscience of God into account. It solves what appears to the non-omniscient (that's all of us) to be a mystery and is entirely about God's ability to foreknow al who would choose him and to make sure they are in an historic position to have the opportunity to make that choice.
C's and A's just want to bicker and tell themselves how right they are...
while souls who have not heard the Gospel are everywhere...
What scares me is how accountable we will be for the time the precious blood-bought time the unfathomable blood of Christ bought time we have all wasted in this life pursuing our own lusts for money, power, fame, leisure, sex, career, hobby, compute.... hmmm... computer time in other than Christian evangelical and edification pursuits... wow does that hit a nerve here (for us all)???
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
These are those who are ripe for a miracle.
I like that! ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
But I guess we differ when it comes to regeneration because I believe that regeneration comes the moment after faith and repentance. The moment we believe, we are born again. The Holy Spirit speaks through the Word of God, and He speaks through powerful sermons, and He softens the hearts of men, but He does not regenerate anyone who has not accepted our Lord Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior.
quote:
Those who hear the gospel and use earthly things as an excuse not to accept Christ were never intended to be children of the Kingdom
They were invited.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
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posted
Yes, many make excuse.
Luke 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and showed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Those who hear the gospel and use earthly things as an excuse not to accept Christ were never intended to be children of the Kingdom. Jesus said, “none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.” He said, “bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.” These are those who are ripe for a miracle.
Regeneration is a miracle that totally changes the will to accept Christ.
God bless.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Everyone is born spiritually blind and until one receives this irritating anointing of conviction of sin by the Spirit they will not understand the need for cleansing. When one receives the irritating gravel of conviction by the Spirit, they have then a responsibility to go to the only source of cleansing, which is what God says in His word, namely Christ. This responsibility to go to the only source of cleansing could be resisted, but do you think that if someone had irritating gravel in their eyes and being told of a sure source of relief that they would resist going there?
Yes, they resist.
Why do people reject Jesus as their Savior?
The decision to accept or reject Jesus as Savior is the ultimate life decision. Why do many people choose to reject Jesus as Savior? There are perhaps as many different reasons for rejecting Christ as there are people who reject Him, but the following four reasons can serve as general categories:
1) Some people do not think they need a savior. These people consider themselves to be “basically good” and do not realize that they, like all people, are sinners who cannot come to God on their own terms. But Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). Those who reject Christ will not be able to stand before God and successfully plead their own case on their own merits.
2) The fear of social rejection or persecution deters some people from receiving Christ as Savior. The unbelievers in John 12:42-43 would not confess Christ because they were more concerned with their status among their peers than doing God’s will. These were the Pharisees whose love of position and the esteem of others blinded them, “for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.”
3) For some people, the things that the present world has to offer are more appealing than eternal things. We read the story of such a man in Matthew 19:16-23. This man was not willing to lose his earthly possessions in order to gain an eternal relationship with Jesus (see also 2 Corinthians 4:16-18).
4) Many people are simply resisting the Holy Spirit’s attempts to draw them to faith in Christ. Stephen, a leader in the early church, told those who were about to murder him, “You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!” (Acts 7:51). The apostle Paul made a similar statement to a group of gospel rejecters in Acts 28:23-27.
Whatever the reasons why people reject Jesus Christ, their rejection has disastrous eternal consequences. “There is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” than the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12), and those who reject Him, for whatever reason, face an eternity in the “outer darkness” of hell where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 25:30).
http://www.gotquestions.org/reject-Jesus.html
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Sometimes people resist the gospel not because they think it false but because they perceive it as a threat to their culture, especially the fabric of their society, and their national or tribal solidarity. To some extent this cannot be avoided. Jesus Christ is a disturber as well as a peacemaker. He is Lord, and demands our total allegiance. Thus, some first-century Jews saw the gospel as undermining Judaism and accused Paul of “teaching men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place,” i.e., the temple (Acts 21:28). Similarly, some first-century Romans feared for the stability of the state, since in their view the Christian missionaries, by saying that “there is another King, Jesus,” were being disloyal to Caesar and advocating customs which it was not lawful for Romans to practice (Acts 16:21; 17:7). Still today Jesus challenges many of the cherished beliefs and customs of every culture and society. (The Lausanne Movement [Missionaries])
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An oft told joke within the Jewish community opens with four Russian Jews on a train. It seems that each one has converted to Christianity. The first says that he changed his religion to escape persecution. The second explains how he desperately wanted to attend the university, and since Jews were not admitted he became a Christian. The third tells how he fell madly in love with a beautiful gentile who would not have him unless he converted. The fourth says, "I became a Christian because I saw the light and was convinced that it was true," to which the other three disdainfully respond, "Tell that to your gentile friends."
That joke reflects a deep seated truth; that within the Jewish community it is deemed unthinkable that a well informed Jew could actually believe the gospel. In fact, Jewish resistance to the gospel is so deeply entrenched that one who pretends to be a Christian in order to escape censure or receive benefits is still less contemptible than one who actually claims to believe that Jesus is the son of God. (Jews For Jesus)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
No matter what anyones view is on how God exercises His sovereignty when it comes to whom He chooses to save............the truth is that our assurance that we are "in Christ" does not come from a confidence in any particular "system of theology"(whether it is true or not) , but from the presence of the Holy Spirit "Himself" who bears witness with our spirit.
"Even though I have all knowledge and understanding of deep spiritual matters, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing"
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
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posted
Hi Carol,
I am delighted that we are on the same page with this.
Digging a little deeper and to maintain a balance, the blind man did not ask Jesus to do anything, because he was blind from his birth and was not aware that Jesus could do anything for him. Jesus “spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay.” It is interesting to note that, irritating as it may have been, the blind man did not resist the application of the clay and as you say,” The blind man did not initiate his healing, Jesus did.” The blind man was then told to wash in the Pool of Siloam. Going to his parents' home and washing in their basin would not work. He must wash in the spot where Jesus told him. Why? the Pool of Siloam was supplied through a 500 m long aqueduct underneath the City of David, by water from the Gihon Spring in the Kidron Valley, which was the only means of water supply for Jerusalem. This is powerful symbolism of cleansing.
Everyone is born spiritually blind and until one receives this irritating anointing of conviction of sin by the Spirit they will not understand the need for cleansing. When one receives the irritating gravel of conviction by the Spirit, they have then a responsibility to go to the only source of cleansing, which is what God says in His word, namely Christ. This responsibility to go to the only source of cleansing could be resisted, but do you think that if someone had irritating gravel in their eyes and being told of a sure source of relief that they would resist going there?
God bless.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
In reality they are blind and can’t see where they are going, unless and until their spiritual eyes are opened. They can’t choose to open their own eyes. Only God can do this by His spirit if He chooses to do so.
I agree!
There is a man mentioned in John 9 who was born blind, but when Jesus arrived on the scene, this blind man's life drastically changed. Not only would he see with his eyes, but he would also come to a clear spiritual view of Christ.
Conversion Begins With God: The blind man did not initiate his healing, Jesus did. The apostle John wrote, "In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" 1Jn 4:9-10.
Conversion Involves Faith: Jesus told him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" and he did so, by faith, "and came back seeing." Do you think this man would have gained his sight if rather than going to the pool of Siloam he went to his parents' home and washed in their basin? To have spiritual sight today, people must respond to God's love in obedient faith.
Conversion Begins A Life Of Great Change: The word conversion means "to turn about, turn towards." The formerly blind man turns away from the dark ditch of unbelief toward the glorious light of the Son of God.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
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posted
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
I’m not a Calvinist or Arminian. Just a Bible believer.
Many completely miss the point. Everyone has free will, but ask the unsaved, have you chose to go to hell? And the answer will be “no.” Ask them, have you chose Christ and His salvation? And they will say, “I do the best I can.” In reality they are blind and can’t see where they are going, unless and until their spiritual eyes are opened. They can’t choose to open their own eyes. Only God can do this by His spirit if He chooses to do so. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth, Rom 9:18.
God bless as we continue to grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. 2 Pet 3:18
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Calvinism vs. Arminianism - A Discussion of Doctrine
THE BIBLICAL BALANCE
Like a river that flows between two banks, so the truth of God's Word flows between the extremes of Calvinism and Arminianism. As it has been pointed out, both are true and both are false.
Election and predestination are Biblical doctrines. God knows everything and therefore He cannot learn anything or be surprised by anything. Thus, He knows, and has known from eternity past, who will exercise their free will to accept Him and who will reject Him. The former are the elect, the latter are non-elect. As D.L. Moody once said, the "whosoever wills are the elect, and the whosoever wont's are the non-elect." Every person who is not saved will have only himself to blame; God will not send anyone to hell, but many people will choose to go there by exercising their free will to reject Christ.
On the other hand, no one who is saved will be able to take any of the credit. Our salvation, from start to finish, is 100% God's work, and is based entirely on the finished work of the Cross. We were dead in trespasses and sins, destined for hell, when God in His grace, drew us to Himself, convinced us of our sin and our need for a Savior, and gave us the authority to call Jesus Lord. Is this grace, this wooing, irresistible? No, we have free will and we can resist, even to the damnation of our souls, but God does everything short of making us puppets to draw us into His family.
Moreover the concept of a limited atonement, that Jesus only died for the elect, and not for the sins of all people, is clearly unbiblical. The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus' death on the cross was for all people, and that there is sufficient power in His blood to cleanse away every sin. "Whosoever will may come" is meaningless if man has no free will and no ability to choose God.
The question of whether or not a Christian can lose or walk away from salvation (point 5 in both doctrinal systems) is academic. When a person who claims to be a Christian and shows some fruit to that effect turns his back on God and lives the life of a pagan, the Arminian says he was saved and is now not saved, while the Calvinist says that he was either never really saved to start with, or that he is severely backslidden, but still within grace. Ultimately, no one, not even the sinning person, knows the truth - only God does. In a backslidden or sin-filled state, there is no assurance of salvation, no resting in Jesus, no peace of God in the heart. So the sinning person, whether he is actually a Christian or just thinks he might be, needs to repent and get right with God. The true believer in Christ never has to doubt his salvation. He can rest in the perfect assurance that God saved him and will keep him, and nothing will ever separate him from God's love in time or eternity. We are secure in Christ, kept by the power of His loving grace, forever safe in Jesus.
It is imperative to remember that both Calvinism and Arminianism are systems of theology devised by godly, devout, Bible-believing men in the 1600's. Both systems are based on the Word of God, and both contain essential elements of truth, but neither can be substituted for reading and believing the Word of God. The Apostolic church knew nothing of either system, they simply believed what God had revealed. The difficulty arises when it seems that some of what God has revealed contradicts something else He revealed. How can man be absolutely free and God absolutely sovereign and directive simultaneously? How can salvation be entirely God's work, yet require the cooperation of mere men simultaneously? These are unanswerable questions ultimately. The Bible teaches both the sovereignty of God and the free will of man. It teaches what appears to be unconditional perseverance in some places and conditional perseverance in others. These things can never be intellectually reconciled because God is simply too big for us to understand. Both systems of theology emphasize one set of Scriptures while either ignoring or drastically twisting and explaining away others.
We are not called to understand God, only to believe Him. I am a free moral agent, responsible for my own sin, hopelessly lost. Jesus not only died for me, He drew me to Himself with bands of lovingkindness and grace, convicted me of my sin, gave me the power to call Him Lord, and will one day present me faultless before His presence with great joy. I am, by His grace, His child. And yet, I am still free to walk with Him or not to walk with Him. And what applies to me, applies to every human being. Jesus died for all of us and desires fellowship with all of us. Whosoever will may come and receive of His forgiveness and grace and salvation. Innocent babies who die are safe in heaven. God's election excludes no one; Jesus' atonement includes everyone. As has been pointed out, we are looking at two sides of the same coin. Election is God's side, free will is our side. Someone once said that as we enter life, we see emblazoned over the gateway the words "Whosoever will may come;" then as we enter and look back at the backside of the same gateway, we see inscribed the words "Elect from the foundation of the earth." Election is God's side of the coin we call salvation, human responsibility is our side.
Rather than interpreting the Bible based on any theological or philosophical structure, it behooves us to simply read and believe the Word of God. As we teach the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation, verse by verse, in context, we will at times sound like staunch Calvinists, preaching those passages which emphasize God's sovereignty, while at other times we will seem like devout Arminians, as we preach those passages which emphasize man's responsibility. The key to successful ministry is balance - to stay focused on the Word of God, and not become distracted by the doctrines of men.
...Neither Calvinists nor Arminians, but simply Bible-believing brothers and sisters who love Jesus, desire to know Him intimately, long to worship Him in Spirit and in truth, and who yearn to see a lost, broken, hurting, bleeding, dying world come to know the unlimited capacities of His love and grace.
Larry Taylor
http://calvarydunfermline.org/CVABalan.html
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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