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Topic: Carnal
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
WilllllBBBERRR, a horse is horse of coarse of Coarse
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Thank you David!
Is there such a thing as a Carnal Christian?
Yes, in fact, there is no such thing as a Christian who is not at times carnal. Did you get that? And if you're saying to yourself, "I have never been carnal," then, "God have mercy on you."
But let me tell you what people mean by that. There was a definition of a Christian as a Carnal Christian, as if that was a permanent condition. The people in the Church used to teach that there were three kinds of people, Natural, Carnal, and Spiritual. And they would define the Natural person as unregenerate, unsaved, self on the throne, life in chaos, and sin everywhere.
Then there is the Carnal person. What's that? That's the Christian who still has self on the throne. Christ is still in there somewhere, running around, but He is not in charge, and the life is still in chaos. So the only difference between a natural and a carnal person is that Christ is in there somewhere, but the life hasn't changed.
And then thirdly, there is the Spiritual Christian. Self is off the throne, Christ is on it, and the life is all in order. And so people came up with the idea that you could be either a Carnal Christian or a Spiritual Christian. You know, once you are saved you could say, "Well, I am going to stay a Carnal Christian, I like it better."
And that brings in this whole idea of Lordship, because those are the people who accepted Jesus as Savior, but not as Lord. Those are the people who said, "I don't want to go to Hell, and I want you to save me from Hell and I want you to forgive my sins, but I just don't want you to run my life."
And the old definition of a Carnal Christian was a person who believed in Jesus for salvation, but didn't let Him be Lord, and didn't let Him run his life. That's not what a Carnal Christian is. That isn't at all what Paul had in mind in 1 Corinthians 3, not at all. Let me show you what it is.
There is only two kinds of people in the world. My grandfather use to say the "saints" and the "ain’ts," that's it, Christians and Non-Christians, Believers and Unbelievers. Now listen, the Natural man is the unregenerate. The Spiritual man is the regenerate man. Read Romans 8, the Spiritual man is the regenerate. But the Spiritual man can act in a fleshly way. Anytime you disobey the Lord, you are carnal. Anytime you obey the Lord, you are Spiritual. Anytime you do what you ought not to do, you are carnal. That means fleshly, you're operating off the principle of sin. Anytime you do what the Lord wants you to do, you honor the Word.
So carnality is not a permanent state of Christians who have not given Christ Lordship. Carnality is simply a momentary experience of the Believer who is disobedient to God. So it is not a state, it is simply a kind of behavior. And all Christians at any given moment, right now, this moment here, are either Carnal or Spiritual, depending on whether you're functioning in the Spirit or in the flesh. If you are sitting there and the Spirit of God is teaching you, and you are enjoying what's happening, then the Spirit of God is at work, you're a Spiritual person.
If you're sitting there saying, "I don't like what he is saying, I don't buy any of this stuff. I reject all this stuff. This stuff isn't true." And you have hostility in your heart, and you may be dealing with sin, and you don't like what I said, I don't know. Your flesh is reacting, that's Carnality.
(MacArthur)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
I like the church. There is no salvation in cats.
There is no salvation in cats. There is no salvation in taking a shower. There is no salvation in peanut butter. There is no salvation in sunset, sunrise, or rainbows. There is no salvation in salad. There is no salvation in knee socks or gym shorts. There is no salvation in snowflakes. There is no salvation in jogging or push-ups. There is no salvation in sleep. There is no salvation in dry cat food. This could be a very long list. There is no salvation in church. There is no salvation in good deeds.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:8-10 NKJV)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
I like the cat picture. We have three cats here in our house
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
dry cat food?...where?
I love the Lord Jesus Christ!
I treasure all of His precious creatures...
 ...and His awesome creation!!!
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
I like the church. There is no salvation in cats. Stop feeding dry cat food to the church.
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
As a "mature" Christian I checked with the WEBMASTER. Did you miss that part?
I Like Cats
 You could try writing a non-picture text post in your own "department"...
for dial-up Christians and non-Christians.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Eden
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posted
Carol Swenson, it is not that I don't like your pictures--I have DSL so they don't affect my uploads.
But I would have thought that as a "mature" Christian, you would have the interest of the larger church in mind and consider unselfishly that there ARE a lot of Christians and non-Christians who may be tuning into this bbs for edification who only have a DIAL-UP connection and so ANY large picture of CATS and THANK YOU make it harder for them to get to the text that may help them spiritually, which should be our most important concern. But, suit yourself ... or you could try "taking up your cross and denying yourself".
love, Eden
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Thanks Eden, but they can tell me that themselves if they want. I'd have to shut down the whole Internet to eliminate pictures though, and, again, KnowHim said they're okay. If it makes you feel better, most of the pictures are small.
The only person I know for sure who used dial-up was Keeper. He couldn't watch videos, but he enjoyed the pictures.
I post for other people. I've already read the articles and seen the pictures before I post them. I could just keep them to myself. That would be easier and more peaceful than sharing them here where they are subjected to your criticism. Some people like them though, so I share, but if you don't like them then just skip my posts. Please feel free to do so.
"that one PM long ago" was not the only one; it was the last one before I put you on the ignore list.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, Carol Swenson, you are correct, I had forgotten about that one PM long ago. In that PM, I never told you to "stop using pictures"; I asked you to be considerate of other Christian people and of non-Christian people who only have "dial-up" Internet access because the large pictures that you post take a long time for them to upload.
But obviously that suggestion was never heeded by you since you are still posting large pictures ( mostly for your own momentary pleasure), but to the detriment of Christian dial-up users and to the detriment of as-yet non-Christian dial-up users (of whom there still are many because DSL or cable can be expensive for many families).
So I ask you again, in public this time, please be considerate as a Christian leader in your use of large pictures.
Thank you, Eden
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Guess you skipped right over the Holy Spirit...lol
quote:
I have NEVER tried to PM you before.
It is one thing to put me on the IGNORE or BLOCK list if I had been harassing you with PM after PM, but today was the FIRST TIME that I tried to PM you
You did send PMs. In the last one, sent around May 2009, you told me to stop using pictures. I checked with KnowHim about the pictures and sent him a copy of your PM. Pictures are not only okayed but encouraged. That's when I put you on the ignore list.
We would not have been given an ignore list option if we didn't have the right to use it.
You aren't content to be head of your own "department". You want to tell other people how to run their "departments". You don't have the right.
If you have anything you want to say to me, you will say it in public in front of witnesses. That way, we can all help you with your memory.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, Carol Swenson ... speaking of carnal, I tried to Private Message (PM) you to let you know that I had deleted a couple of our argumentative posts, only to discover that you have me on the IGNORE list, or the BLOCK THIS PERSON'S CALL list.
My father who used to be on this bbs said that this bbs was like a Bible College, which has various departments, and one department is headed by Carol Swenson and another department is headed by Eden and another department is headed by becauseHElives and another department is headed by MentorsRiddle, and so on.
And from each department emanate Topics and posts,and from your department and my department probably emanate the MOST Topics and posts.
So considering this bbs is like a Bible College, what's the idea of putting another deparment had on the IGNORE list or the BLOCK THIS PERSON'S CALL list AT A BIBLE COLLEGE???
I might expect such behavior at a Darwinian College, but at a Bible College? And this is especially egregious considering I have NEVER tried to PM you before.
It is one thing to put me on the IGNORE or BLOCK list if I had been harassing you with PM after PM, but today was the FIRST TIME that I tried to PM you, only to discover that you have put a fellow Christian department head on IGNORE??? What's THAT all about?
Speaking of CARNAL? ... Have faith in God.
love, Eden
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Okay. Thank you Eden, I'm glad you liked it.
Can You Hear The Holy Spirit?
When the church in Antioch gathered for worship, the Holy Spirit spoke to them: "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." Does the Holy Spirit speak to us today? Can we hear what he says to us today?
Paul tells us that those who are led by the Holy Spirit are the children of God (Romans 8:14). We should expect the Holy Spirit to lead us, and we need to know how he does it.
In different ways
God works in different ways with different people. He spoke in different ways to Adam, Abraham, Moses, Deborah, Samuel, Elijah, Mary and Paul. He can speak in different ways to us today. The messages given to Philip (Acts 8:29) and Peter are so specific (Acts 10:19) that distinct words may have been involved. But he spoke in a different way at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). It is only after all the discussion had taken place that the apostles concluded that the Holy Spirit had made the decision for them (verse 28).
Just as the Holy Spirit decides to give different abilities to different people (1 Corinthians 12:11), he works with us in different ways. A person with the gift of wisdom is likely to hear the Spirit in a different way than a person with the gift of compassion. The Spirit will lead a teacher in a different way than a server, because he has different jobs for each person.
The Spirit shapes us in different ways, and as a result, we value different goals. Someone with the gift of administration will value order and organization; someone with the gift of serving will ask whether people are being helped; someone with the gift of encouragement will focus on peoples’ attitudes; people with the gift of generosity will look for needs that they can fill. And the Spirit works with us in the way that he has caused us to be, according to our interests and values.
For some people, he speaks subtly, in general principles; for others, he must speak with unmistakable details. Each of us must listen in the way that God has made us, in the way that he chooses to deal with us. The important thing is that we listen—that we are ready and willing to hear what he says. We should be looking for his leadership rather than ignoring it.
Dangers
There are several dangers to take into account. First, all sorts of people have claimed to hear the Holy Spirit when he didn’t really speak to them. They have made false prophecies, given foolish advice, led people into cults and made Christianity look bad. If God spoke to them, they badly misunderstood what he was saying. So there’s a danger of "hearing" things that God never said. We should be careful, for we do not want to use his name in vain.
A second danger is that some people, afraid of hearing incorrectly, refuse to hear anything at all. But as Dallas Willard has pointed out, we should not "shun the genuine simply because it resembled the counterfeit" (Hearing God, p. 88). Our Father in heaven does speak to us, and the Holy Spirit does lead us, and we will shortchange ourselves if we close our ears.
Hebrews 3:7 says that the Spirit speaks in the words of Scripture, and we should not refuse to follow what he says. He does communicate to us today, convicting us of what we should do, guiding us in how we serve God.
A third danger is that some people seek the Holy Spirit for selfish reasons. They want the Spirit to make their decisions for them, to tell them what job to take, which person to marry, when to move and how to live. They want the Holy Spirit to be like a Ouija board or a horoscope, to save them the trouble of thinking and making decisions.
But God wants us to grow in maturity, to learn through experience what is right and wrong (Hebrews 5:12-14). And many of the decisions we face are not matters of sin and righteousness—they are simply choices, and God can work with us no matter which we choose, so he leaves the choice up to us. So the Holy Spirit doesn’t speak on everything we want him to.
Some people would like to have the Holy Spirit as a conversational companion to keep them company. They want to chat, but the Holy Spirit isn’t involved in idle words. He does not call attention to himself (John 15:26), and is often silent because he has already given us enough information and advice. He wants us to use what he has already given; he has been training our conscience to respond rightly to what faces us. That does not mean that we rely on ourselves, but that we rely on what God has already done in our lives and what he has already taught us.
Scripture
The Holy Spirit speaks to us primarily through the Scriptures that he inspired to be written and canonized. This is our foundation of faith and life, the word that everyone has access to, the word that can be studied and discussed most objectively. Often the word that we need to hear has already been written, and the Spirit simply needs to bring it to mind. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, for example, his responses were quoted from Scripture. He had studied and memorized those words, and in each situation the Spirit led him to the appropriate response.
The Spirit does not bypass our need to think, or our need to read and meditate on his words. If we are not seeking the words he has already given in Scripture, then we should not expect him to suddenly give us new words for new situations. Nor can we expect the random-access method of Scripture skimming to provide good answers for difficult questions. We cannot force, coerce or goad the Spirit to speak when he does not choose to speak.
With Scripture, there is the potential for nearly constant communication with God, as we read and pray and live consciously in God’s presence. As we pray, we should also listen, for God may use our meditations to help us understand what we should do. We have the responsibility to read and study, for the Spirit usually works with words that are already in our minds. He works with our vocabulary, with our ways of reasoning, with the desires and values he has given us.
The devil can use Scripture, too, and the Bible is often misunderstood and misused. But it is still an important means of being led by and hearing the Holy Spirit. Scripture is the standard of comparison for all other words from God. If we think that the Spirit is leading us to do something, our first question needs to be, "Is this in agreement with Scripture?" The Spirit does not contradict himself. He does not lead us to lie, steal, gossip or be greedy, for he has already told us that those things are not godly.
So if we think the Spirit is leading us in one direction, we need to check it with Scripture—and the only way we can do that is to know what Scripture says. We need to study it, and since we will never know it all, we need to keep studying it. Memorization can be helpful, but what we need most of all is understanding. We need to see the principles of salvation, of Christian living, of divine love, of the way that God works with his people; that will help us understand how he is working with us.
Experience
We can also hear the Holy Spirit through experience. God sometimes changes his methods with us, but most often he works with us in a similar way from one year to another. Through experience, we see how he has answered our prayers and led us in past situations. This will help us recognize his "voice" when he speaks to us in the present. Experience comes through time, submission and meditation. The Spirit helps the humble, not the self-exalting.
We can gain even more wisdom by drawing on the experience of other Christians. The Spirit does not isolate us, but puts us into a church, into a community of other believers. He distributes his gifts so that we stay together, work together and benefit from one another’s strengths (1 Corinthians 12:7). In the same way, we can help one another hear the Holy Spirit because we each have different experiences of how God works in our lives.
When a message from God comes to one person, other people are to consider it carefully (1 Corinthians 14:29). They are to consider, for one thing, whether it is really a word from the Lord. The Spirit can speak through the community as well as through certain individuals—the Jerusalem conference is a good example of that. The people learned from their experiences with the Gentiles, saw that those experiences agreed with the Scriptures (Acts 15:15), and through the discussion heard the decision of the Spirit (verse 28).
The Holy Spirit often speaks to people through other people: in worship songs, in small group discussions, in a whispered word of encouragement, in a silent smile, a picture or a magazine article. There are many ways we can learn from others, to receive godly guidance from others. But this is for each person to discern. Rarely does the Spirit tell one person to give orders to another.
Sermons are a common means of spiritual speech. Those who speak should strive to speak the words of God (1 Peter 4:11), so those who speak in church should strive to listen to God as they prepare the sermons, and those who hear the sermons should likewise listen for the words of the Lord. We need to let our worship services be times of listening, of thinking, of communing with God so that we are letting him change us to be more like Christ. Let us draw near to him, and he will change us.
Circumstances are another experiential means of "testing the spirits." We may have an open door, or all the doors may be closed. Barricades may test our convictions, or they may be signals that we need to ask whether we have correctly understood the directions. They force us to think again, to seek God again, to check with Scripture, and to check with others who have spiritual maturity.
Responding to the Holy Spirit
If we want to hear, we need to listen. But if we want to hear in the biblical sense, we also need to obey. If we hear his voice, if we believe that God is telling us to do something, then we need to respond. We need to do what he has gifted us to do. We are to submit to God, for what he says is for our own good. We bring him honor, and we bring ourselves blessings, by doing his will. It begins with listening. Can you hear the Holy Spirit?
http://www.wcg.org/lit/disc/14hearing.htm
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
I can only speak for this Topic article that you posted TODAY; this one I like. I have no idea what the previous ones said with different Topic titles, nor am I interested in reviewing what they may have said, other than that they probably contained items that spurred some comments from me; but this February 17 article was precise and good and contained nothing that I disagree with.
love, Eden
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
It was posted the 16th, and today is the 18th. Can't you see the date at the top of each post? But I'm in Colorado; I don't know where you are. I suppose there is a time difference (of 2 days?).
Anyway, I'm not being deceptive. I checked the posts dating back two weeks before I made my statement.
posted February 05, 2010 11:55
Biblical Obedience
You wrote
quote:
But when the names of Christians are called, Jesus will step forward in place of every Christian. Then God considers
Jesus's wisdom and Jesus's righteousness and Jesus's sanctification, and declare Him acceptable on our behalf.
The ONLY thing of me that will be considered is whether I believe in Jesus as my Substitute on the cross. He has paid the penalty of death for my sins for me on the cross, and I go scott-free. Period.
posted February 06, 2010 16:54
Learning To Be Like Christ; The Family Of God
You wrote
quote:
It is utter and complete nonsense to think we can "learn to be like Christ".
posted February 11, 2010 19:47
be ready with an answer
You wrote
quote:
It is because WE KEEP TRYING TO ADD SOMETHING TO THIS FREE GIFT eventhough Jesus said, IT IS FINISHED. We try to add good behavior, we resolve to pray more, we resolve to read the Bible more frequently, we resolve to help more people, but Jesus said, It is finished.
Just a few examples...
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Eden had written that "he agreed with what the article said".
Carol Swenson answered quote:
Hilarious. You just spent the last two weeks disagreeing with half of what it says.
Nonsense, this Topic/article was posted by you on February 17, 2010, today IS the 17th, so I cannot have spent two weeks disagreeing with half of it, as you allege. Try being a more truthful person instead of being semi-sneaky.
Whoever wrote this article did a good job. Any other similar Topics that you may have posted (you post so many, who knows?) were not nearly as tight and to the point as this one.
love, Eden
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
hehe, well thank you ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I am fond of you both too
![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Good Post and THank you.
Did you two just agree on something?
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Hilarious. You just spent the last two weeks disagreeing with half of what it says.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Eden
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posted
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) good article, I agree with what it says.
love, Eden
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
 Carnal
Can a true Christian be carnal? In answering this question, let’s first define the term “carnal.” The word “carnal” is translated from the Greek word sarkikos, which literally means “fleshly.” This descriptive word is seen in the context of Christians in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. In this passage, the apostle Paul is addressing the readers as “brethren,” a term he uses almost exclusively to refer to other Christians; he then goes on to describe them as “carnal.” Therefore, we can conclude that Christians can be carnal. The Bible is absolutely clear that no one is sinless (1 John 1:8). Every time we sin, we are acting carnally.
The key thing to understand is that while a Christian can be, for a time, carnal, a true Christian will not remain carnal for a lifetime. Some have abused the idea of a “carnal Christian” by saying that it is possible for people to come to faith in Christ and then proceed to live the rest of their lives in a completely carnal manner, with no evidence of being born again or a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). Such a concept is completely unbiblical. James 2 makes it abundantly clear that genuine faith will always result in good works. Ephesians 2:8-10 declares that while we are saved by grace alone through faith alone, that salvation will result in works. Can a Christian, in a time of failure and/or rebellion, appear to be carnal? Yes. Will a true Christian remain carnal? No.
Eternal security is a fact of Scripture. Salvation cannot be lost, because salvation is a gift of God that He will not take away (see John 10:28; Romans 8:37-39; 1 John 5:13). Even in 1 Corinthians 3:15, the carnal Christian is assured of salvation: “If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” The question is not whether a person who claims to be a Christian but lives carnally has lost his salvation, but whether that person was truly saved in the first place (1 John 2:19).
Christians who become carnal in their behavior can expect God to lovingly discipline them (Hebrews 12:5-11) so they can be restored to close fellowship with Him and be trained to obey Him. God’s desire in saving us is that we would progressively grow closer to the image of Christ (Romans 12:1-2), becoming increasingly spiritual and decreasingly carnal, a process known as sanctification. Until we are delivered from our sinful flesh, there will be outbreaks of carnality. For a genuine believer in Christ, though, these outbreaks of carnality will be the exception, not the rule.
http://www.gotquestions.org/carnal-Christian.html
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LOL! Horsefeathers!
