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Author
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Topic: Euthanasia
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Oneinchrist
quote:
Hi again Mentors Riddle,
Thank you for your conversation. One particular thought came to mind after reading about the different scenarios that you gave..........
It sure seems like it would be a good idea to have our personal desires(relating to life support in case of accident/emergency) included in our wills/power of attorney.....dont you think? Otherwise the decision could be put in someone elses hands, regardless of whether or not it would reflect our own beliefs/desires.
With love in Christ, Daniel
You are always welcome for conversation. I love to gibber-jabber so I’m always up for a conversation. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I agree.
We should have something like that one file.
But, most people never think of that situation and before you know it you are in the situation.
I admit, I’ve never thought of it much until this conversation, lol.
Brother Paul,
quote:
I think (my opinion here) that what oneinchrist is trying to say is, that sometimes by keeping a person alive who is actually dead save the technology, is there not a possibility we are actually working against the will of God (in some cases). And I think the answer is a big maybe because we do not have the right to decide if this is or is not Gods will. Perhaps it is His will we strive at all cost to keep them going in case we do fall upon a new discovery. But I must admit I also have pondered this possibility we are acting against Gods plan at these times.
I understood what Daniel was asking.
But, I’ve heard of stories before where a man was being kept on life support for over ten years. They thought he was brain dead and was basically just a vegetable laying on a bed.
However, years later he finally woke up and had been aware the entire time of what was going on.
Crazy story, but it’s true.
As far as acting against God’s plan… like I said before, I think we have to look at the fruits to determine if it’s God’s will or not.
Pulling the plug on someone would be too hard of a decision for me.
I just don’t think I could do it.
Jean123
quote:
i think some our forgetting that the Lord still can do mircales! you need to have faith and believe
You are right, Jean.
The Lord can do miracles!
God-Bless Everyone,
~Matt
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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jean123
Advanced Member
Member # 7855
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posted
i think some our forgetting that the Lord still can do mircales! you need to have faith and believe
Posts: 38 | Registered: Sep 2009
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Brother Paul,
My wife just told me about when her mother died, that they had her on life support up until the point to where too many vital organs had failed and the only means to keep her alive were the oxygen and tubes.....so in a sense the doctors did determine it was her time to die when they removed her from the oxygen and tubes.... I do not think that I would classify that as "murder".
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Brother Paul
Advanced Member
Member # 7959
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posted
I think (my opinion here) that what oneinchrist is trying to say is, that sometimes by keeping a person alive who is actually dead save the technology, is there not a possibility we are actually working against the will of God (in some cases). And I think the answer is a big maybe because we do not have the right to decide if this is or is not Gods will. Perhaps it is His will we strive at all cost to keep them going in case we do fall upon a new discovery. But I must admit I also have pondered this possibility we are acting against Gods plan at these times.
In Christ
Paul
Posts: 235 | From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Dec 2009
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi again Mentors Riddle,
Thank you for your conversation. One particular thought came to mind after reading about the different scenarios that you gave..........
It sure seems like it would be a good idea to have our personal desires(relating to life support in case of accident/emergency) included in our wills/power of attorney.....dont you think? Otherwise the decision could be put in someone elses hands, regardless of whether or not it would reflect our own beliefs/desires.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Oneinchrist,
quote:
Nice to fellowship with you again.
It is my pleasure, My Friend.
quote:
Isnt it one thing for someone to be on a temporary life support that has a good probablity of helping that person get back to a normal life..............................and another thing for a person to be on life support as their SOLE means by which to REMAIN alive?
I think it is two different things, at present time, but also two similar things.
Let me explain my thoughts further.
There are many different examples we can use so I’ll list several different ones, so you can better understand my view points.
Someone who is on life support who wants to live
If a person accepts that this is the only way they will live: by being on life support, then it should be fine and dandy for them to be on it.
Even if they are unconscious while on it.
Someone who doesn’t want to be on life support to live
I believe we must honor their wishes and not hook them up to life support if they wish it.
Someone who is unconscious
We don’t know if they want to be on it or not.
So we must give them the mercy the majority of the population would desire and allow them to live.
Other Thoughts
Who is to say that tomorrow some medical breakthrough will not arrive, which could cure the person of their ailment?
I know it might be a stretch, but it is possible.
Also, how do we know that they don’t go to God when they are in this state?
Perhaps God in his mercy removes their Spirit into his open arms in this state of existence?
These are all questions that will never have an answer… not even by Christians.
We are all existent in the Sin Nature and will remain in this way until Christ comes back for us.
I think we should take all precautions to do what is right, even if that may seem tedious and illogical.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Mentors Riddle,
Nice to fellowship with you again.
Isnt it one thing for someone to be on a temporary life support that has a good probablity of helping that person get back to a normal life..............................and another thing for a person to be on life support as their SOLE means by which to REMAIN alive?
In other words, when we look at this issue of "euthanasia" are we looking at both types of cases? "those who have chances of getting better with a temporary support" as well as "those who would die without being hooked up"(because of the vital support that is provided and needs to be continually provided)????
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Brother Paul,
quote:
but our judges in Oregon, Florida, and elsewhere ARE beginning to agree in droves.
This is because our judicial system, on top of all our other federal systems and state systems, is ultimately corrupt.
No corrupt thing can bring forward clean things.
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The people who are pro-activce in administering this so-called "Mercy" have sinilar roots as those who devised this "non-assisted living" form of murder.
It’s all a part of the sickness that is brought through sin.
Only the message of Jesus Christ can cure them of this sickness, which dwells within their hearts.
Greetings, Oneinchrist! May Jesus’ name be blessed!
quote:
But......the question that I do struggle with concerning this issue is...........What would be
considered(in God eyes)as "crossing the line" in respect to the means by which a persons life is being supported. I mean.......do you guys think it would be Gods will for us to all live to 150yrs. old because man develops technology capable of keeping us alive(by artificial means) another 60yrs longer? I guess the crux of my question could be better expressed as...............
is there any man-made technology or devices that perhaps may not be desirable to God? or do we just say that because man has been able to achieve these great accomplishments, well then it must be the will of God??
My feelings on this issue are that if we have the technology, the person wants to be saved and we do nothing, then we are guilty of murder.
To me that’s the same as asking: if a new born baby was dying of an infection, do we give it anti-biotic or just let the baby die?
Well, obviously the answer is we give the child what he or she needs to survive and see another day.
To answer your question:
I think the way to tell if God would desire something or not is by the fruit yielded by the action.
For example, does the action result in happiness or sorrow?
All good things are from God.
If the action results in sorrow… well then it must be evil.
If the action results in happiness… you get my point.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Greeting to you all in the Name of the Lord Jesus!
I agree that we should first and foremost go to the Holy scriptures for our answers......concerning Gods will.
I agree that it would not be Gods will for us to be setting the date and time for another persons life to end.
But......the question that I do struggle with concerning this issue is...........What would be
considered(in God eyes)as "crossing the line" in respect to the means by which a persons life is being supported? I mean.......do you guys think it would be Gods will for us to all live to 150yrs. old because man develops technology capable of keeping us alive(by artificial means) another 60yrs longer? I guess the crux of my question could be better expressed as...............
is there any man-made technology or devices that perhaps may not be desirable to God? or do we just say that because man has been able to achieve these great accomplishments, well then it must be the will of God??
What do you guys think? I certainly do not have all the anwers.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Brother Paul
Advanced Member
Member # 7959
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posted
Absolutely my dear brother Mentorsriddle. I was not saying starvation is mercy, but our judges in Oregon, Florida, and elsewhere ARE beginning to agree in droves. The people who are pro-activce in administering this so-called "Mercy" have sinilar roots as those who devised this "non-assisted living" form of murder. In America it goes back to the founder of the Birth Control League who obtained her sentiment from Herbert Spencer and Francis Galton (and oh yes even Nietche)and it is based on acceptance of the Neo-darwinian paridign that we are all just different gradations of evolved animals of whom those in poweer have the authority to "breed" as they see fit (abominable to the Lord).
Peace be unto you my brother
Brother Paul
Posts: 235 | From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Dec 2009
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
I do not think that it is a Christians right to choose when someone dies.
I believe this goes against the will of God.
I do, however, believe God gave us a desire to save and preserve life for a reason.
God loves life. I believe, besides Christ, it was his most perfect gift to us.
So… Yes, we should preserve it at all cost.
quote:
A person that claims to be a Christian wrote this…
The person is clearly not a Christian. You can tell from his/her words that they are angry, upset and seemingly full of spite.
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if your gonna use the ole "Gods will" arguement…
Of course we will use the “Gods will” argument. We are Christians. That’s part of it
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"some doctor might get saved by this dying person telling them about Jesus on their deathbed"
Better to be told by someone on their death bed than not at all. God works in mysterious ways. Who is this person to judge God’s ways and Will? He is no one in comparison to God… None of us are.
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To think that a persons eternal habitation depends on a few words out of a dying mans mouth that we accidentally put to death prematurly is shallow, ignorant , and from a christian perspective is not even vaguely biblical.
You know, our eternal habitation depended on a man that humans put to death prematurally… I seem to remember this person being the Son of God or something to that nature. (sarcasm)
This person should think about that for a moment.
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Just think , the creator of the universe is gonna let you slip through his fingers into a lake of fire for all eternity because some ******* didn't die at the right time...what is this ...Star Trek ?....I call weak on the whole fkn thing....next.
Such language… Clearly someone has a grudge against God and needs to remove the mote from his own eye before he tries to remove it from someone else’s eye…
Betty,
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Only God should decide when it is time for someone to die. Opening the door for doctors to decide when a person should die, is very dangerous.
Amen!
becauseHElives,
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euthanasia is nothing less than another word for Nazism!
I couldn’t agree more.
Brother Paul,
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Ever look into the T-4 Euthanazia Program? Iy is the root of the merciful "Starvation" for the handicapped now called "non-assisted living"!
Starvation is not “merciful”.
Try telling that to someone who is starving and they will tell you if they find it merciful or not…
I know you are not saying you think it is. I am just saying that for anyone reading.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Brother Paul
Advanced Member
Member # 7959
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posted
Ever look into the T-4 Euthanazia Program? Iy is the root of the merciful "Starvation" for the handicapped now called "non-assisted living"!
Check it out
Brother Paul
Posts: 235 | From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Dec 2009
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
euthanasia is nothing less than another word for Nazism!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
Only God should decide when it is time for someone to die. Opening the door for doctors to decide when a person should die, is very dangerous.
This said, I do believe a person can choose to be DNR orders. This is not taking a life but allowing a person to decide what kind of actions to be taken if they stop breathing.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
A person that claims to be a Christian wrote this. What do you think about these statements?
I was kinda wondering.....if its not "Gods" will for them to be dead yet and we kill em....isn't it just as wrong to keep someone alive who should be dead...if your gonna use the ole "Gods will" arguement.
And it is absolutely ridiculous in my view to keep some suffering hopeless case coherent in the name of "some doctor might get saved by this dying person telling them about Jesus on their deathbed"
To think that a persons eternal habitation depends on a few words out of a dying mans mouth that we accidentally put to death prematurly is shallow, ignorant , and from a christian perspective is not even vaguely biblical.Just think , the creator of the universe is gonna let you slip through his fingers into a lake of fire for all eternity because some ******* didn't die at the right time...what is this ...Star Trek ?....I call weak on the whole fkn thing....next.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
by Paul M. Sadler
Scripture Reading:
"It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."
-- Hebrews 9:27
It is our firm conviction that every believer in Christ should strongly oppose euthanasia on the grounds that it runs contrary to the revealed will of God. Euthanasia is the deliberate act of prematurely terminating the life of someone who is hopelessly ill. This is normally achieved through the controlled inhalation of carbon monoxide, by a lethal injection of drugs or withholding nourishment. Those who are advocates of this unwholesome rationale believe that it is morally acceptable to end the pain and suffering of a loved one whose life would otherwise be meaningless. In the name of compassion Michigan's infamous "Dr. Death" has assisted in many such suicides, proclaiming himself to be an angel of mercy.
Thankfully most physicians still hold to the Hippocratic oath, which states that every effort should be made to preserve life. But even more importantly, man has no moral right to terminate a life that has been given by God. It has been appropriately said: "Suicide doesn't end the pain, it only lays it on the broken shoulders of the survivors." Many seem to have forgotten that it is God "in whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind" (Job 12:10). We sympathize, of course, with any family who has a loved one who is terminally ill. Nevertheless, to cut that life short may send them to a Christless eternity when they might have otherwise believed before their natural death. Also, we may never know how many souls in the medical profession have been saved because they were in the presence of a dying saint or family member who was faithful in sharing Christ. The Lord's consolation at such times is "MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEE!"
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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