|
Author
|
Topic: 70 x 7's
|
botham
Advanced Member
Member # 7935
|
posted
Thanks Stephen and Eden for this great discussion. I'm still don't understand why ti makes a differnece as to knowing whether we are on the brink of the rapture and tribulation or whether it is many years hence? But I do know that God has some Holy intention in every portion of the Word. What I'm trying to do, with the help of your excellent references and explanations, is to mediatate before God as to whether I should be more diligent about searching scripture in general. The answeer keeps coming back yes! My concentration is improving because of the compelling opinions expressed backed up by scripture. God has a reason for not laying it out point blank with exact dates. He must want us to search because He know that in so doing, we will love Him more and know Him as He desires. You two, and the others here obviously love our God and His Word. Thank you, Botham
Posts: 103 | From: canada | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hello, Stephen1, nice to meet you. If I may ask ...
Daniel 9
24 70 weeks are determined upon your people and upon your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be 7 weeks and 62 weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
First of all, I would like to ask you about the 7 weeks and 62 weeks and about the statement that after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off.
Why, in your opinion, would the Bible separate those 2 periods in 7 weeks and then in 62 weeks and then state that after 62 weeks, and not after 69 weeks, shall Messiah be cut off.
I understand that most students of the Bible have learned to add the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks together and say it means 69 weeks when the Messiah is cut off.
But the Bible says that the Messiah was cut off after 62 weeks and not after 69 weeks. How do you explain that part, Stephen1?
Also, I think that you wrote that the "prince who is to come" of Daniel 9:26 was not the Romans under Vespasian/Titus, but I wanted to point out that the "prince who is to come" will destroy the city and the sanctuary":
Daniel 9
26 And after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Assuming for a moment that this statement does NOT refer to the Roman Titus event, where in your outlay of the end-time process does this Satan/Antichrist person "destroy the city and the sanctuary"? Please explain that to me, Stephen1.
Also, you state something to the effect that the 70th week was not used up in the Roman Titus event, but did you know that the Jews themselves call that Roman Titus war The Seven Years' War, which lasted from 66 A.D. to 73 A.D.?
And lastly, the text of Daniel 9:24 states that the purpose of the 70 week period of "Jewish heptads" if you will, was to:
Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon your people and upon your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The Lord Jesus completed all of those tasks when He died on the cross for us and Jesus even ascended into heaven to anoint the most Holy:
Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Hebrews 9:23
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
The Lord Jesus:
Daniel 9:24
-- finished the transgression
-- made an end of sins
-- made reconciliation for iniquity
-- brought in everlasting righteousness
-- sealed up vision and prophecy
-- and anointed the most Holy.
But, eventhough the Lord Jesus had completed these things, the temple of the LORD still stood in Jerusalem and needed to be dealt with:
Hebrews 9:8
The Holy Spirit this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while the FIRST tabernacle was yet standing.
The new way was not manifest or easy to see while the FIRST tabernacle was yet standing. And to finish that part, the LORD sent the Roman Titus in The Seven Years's War:
Daniel 9
26 And after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood and to the end of the war desolations are determined.
The war started in 66 A.D. and lasted until 73 A.D. By 70 A.D. the walls of Jerusalem were breached and 1 millions plus persons perished. Adn then from 70 A.D. to 73 A.D. the Roman army threw the stones of the temple down:
Mark 13:2
And Jesus said to him, Do you see these great buildings? There shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down.
During The Seven Years' War, the 70 weeks of Daniel were completed. We do not need to look for it anymore.
Because, Jesus took care of v.24:
Daniel 9:24
-- finished the transgression
-- made an end of sins
-- made reconciliation for iniquity
-- brought in everlasting righteousness
-- sealed up vision and prophecy
-- and anointed the most Holy.
And the prince who is to come took care of v.26 by destroying the city and the first tabernacle. Everything is already taken care of now.
The main thing we await now is the appearing of the Antichrist and the Second Coming of Jesus and the coming up out of their graves of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, who will then be added to the Church, which is the new Israel of God spoken of by Paul:
Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Ezekiel 37:12
Therefore prophesy to them, Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves and bring you into the land of Israel.
Hosea 1
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living Godd.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
Ezekiel 37
13 And you shall know that I am the LORD when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves.
14 And shall put My spirit in you and you shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall you know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, says the LORD.
Daniel 9:24-26 is already finished and completed.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Luc A C
Community Member
Member # 7921
|
posted
Matthew 24: 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mark 13: 32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. 34It's like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with his assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.
35"Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!' "
--------------------
Let use not interpret the Bible in a way that it would suit the way we want to live, but let use interpret the Bible in a way God wants us to live.
Posts: 15 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Stephen1
Community Member
Member # 7934
|
posted
The time frame of all unfulfilled visionary prophecy is still future. All fulfilled prophecy has been fulfilled through the end of the 69th week of the 70 weeks of years decreed for national Israel. A week of years is the Jewish “heptad”. Each year represents 360 literal prophetic days. This calculates to a 7 year period of time or 2,520 days. The 69 weeks of years represent a time period of 173,880 prophetic days or 483 years:
This time frame began at the decree to return and build the city Jerusalem from the Babylonian captivity [under Persian rule] in 445 B.C. 483 prophetic years lapsed in about 33 A.D. and the Lord was then cut off at His first coming. There is one “heptad” (one 7 year period) remaining for the completion of the decreed amount of total time of 490 years and this 7 year period is still future. [Daniel 9; 12]
It is significant that the nation of unbelieving Israel is existing as an independent political entity in the land of Israel today after many centuries of domination by the Gentiles and exile from their land. They are there to experience the coming 70th week decreed for the nation which is still pending.
Israel's continuous intransigence against the Lord's providence and direction has resulted in the loss of His personal guidance and direction. Israel is still in this condition at the present time. His long term preservation of Israel's national identity is specifically for His ultimate plans and purposes ..... not Israel's self-generated nationalism. [Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 36; 37; 38; 39]
The years following the reign of Israel's prominent kings David and his son Solomon included political division of the nation and subsequent invasion and assimilation of ten of the tribes of Israel by the Assyrians. Successive dominance of the remainder of the nation followed by the three empires of neo-Babylon, Persia, and Grecia.
The neo-Babylonians conquered what was left of the remnant, took many captives, and relocated the population. It was under the rule of the next empire, Persia, that a remnant of Israel was allowed to return to the land of Israel [445 B.C.]. This began the count down of the 70 weeks of years [490 literal prophetic years]. 483 years have lapsed with one 7 year period yet to be experienced by Israel after their second return from the nations of the Gentiles to the land of Israel. [Daniel 9:24-27]
If the death of Jesus occurred around 33 A.D. then the following calculation can be made. The time lapse would be 444 calendar years to the first century from 445 B.C. plus 33 additional years to equal 477 years. The conversion factor for 360 day prophetic years can be calculated by dividing 365 by 360 which is 1.0138. Prophetic years are shorter so there are more of them included in the time frame of 477 calendar years.
There are 483.5826 [477 x 1.0138] prophetic years in the time frame. If one adjusts this result by leap year days, the final calculation is very close to 483 years [69 weeks of years]. Daniel's vision of the time frame allows for this amount of time to lapse after which the Messiah Prince would be cut off and have nothing.
The last segment of 7 years [1 week of years] is still yet future and requires Israel's return in part to the Land of Israel from the nations. This final 7 years will include future prophetic events leading up to the visible return of Israel's Messiah who is Jesus Christ.
The covenant of 70 weeks of years is described in the 9th chapter of Daniel. The Lord will confirm this covenant by executing the last 7 years including the 6 objectives that will be met for national Israel at the time of the end which is still pending. These objectives must be met for national Israel at that time since most of the nation has been and is in the state of unbelief. Some will turn and accept their Messiah and King, Jesus Christ.
This period will be exactly 2,520 prophetic days long and there will be another 30 days and 45 days added. The Lord will turn on satan's beast and his kingdom of followers and destroy it during the 30 day period ending with the battle of Armageddon. The Lord will then appear to the world and gather all of the mortal survivors of the tribulations of the 70th week and separate them for entrance into His kingdom during the next 45 days.
Satan and his fallen angelics are coming to the earth at the beginning of the 70th week and it will take the first 1,260 days for him to develop his kingdom in the Middle East including the invasion and occupation of Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount. He will also gain a large human following and these will worship him as a god. He will then rule over the Middle East for the next 1,260 days [42 months]. The Lord will then force him and his human followers to Armageddon and destroy his kingdom within the next 30 days.
There is nothing of earthly events recorded in the scope of visionary prophecy between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th. The end time frames of the O.T. visions of the prophets, the Lord’s discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation beginning in chapter 4 are all about the 70th week which is still pending.
The Lord’s discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 concerning the time of the end is all focused upon the generation of national Israel that will be living during the 70th week. No known events on the earth are included in the time lapse between the end of the 69th week [about 33 A.D.] and the beginning of the future 70th week. There have been many attempts to insert them, but they are not there. All of the time lapse of last 2,000+ years up to this very day is not included in the visions.
For example, the Roman invasions of Israel in 70 A.D. are not presented in the scope of the visions. These events occurred long after the 69th week and were certainly not part of the 70th which is still pending. The people of the prince that shall come [satan's beast in the little horn, king of the northern Middle East] were not the Romans in the first century.
These will be the followers of the this king during the 70th week. The 6th king "position" that John sees, the king that "is", will be the little horn of Daniel's visions and not a Roman king in the first century. John sees the "things that shall be hereafter" .... the coming 70th week.
The Lord also addresses the mystery kingdom of the Church [composed of a few Israelites and many Gentiles] in the parables of Matthew 25. His focus is on His “harpazo” action which will divide professing christianity into those that are ready .... and those that are not. The first [both dead and living together] will be immortalized and the balance will remain to experience the tribulations of 70th week.
Some of national Israel and of the nations will repent and turn to the Lord during His hour of trial and judgment, but most will not. Many of these who turn will be martyed for their faith and a few will survive the period. The development of this mystery kingdom [the church] was revealed at Pentecost and will be completed when the fullness of the Gentiles are added. [Romans 11:25]
The precept of the time frame of the 70 weeks of years decreed for national Israel must be applied to all unfilled prophecy written in scripture for correct and accurate exegesis of the prophetic scriptures. All of the content of future events can be identified and these will fit exactly into this time frame.
Most traditional interpretations do not incorporate this method of exegesis and all of them have difficulties that require some level of apologetics, selective allegory, contextual extraction, misapplication of scriptures, and elimination of the same. I would suggest the student of Bible prophecy test the precept of the 70 weeks decreed against all known scriptural passages related to visionary prophecy. I will be glad to assist any one with reconciliations related to the pre-conceptions of other views.
--------------------
Stephen
Posts: 10 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
