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Author
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Topic: The Cause Of Division
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
mentorsriddle:
quote:
quote:
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When we trust in Jesus Christ, His Spirit takes charge of our lives and remains in charge until we die. He will control us to His own ultimate ends, whether we submit or not
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I understand the point of the quote above, but I do not agree with it – mainly the part that says, “He will control us to his own ultimate ends, whether we submit or not.”
That is not “free will” but something other. I agree that Christ will use us for his ends, as long as we are willing participants – free will, but I do not believe he will include us in his plans unless we submit.
I have to say that I agree with the statement. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) He is in control whether with our participation, or in spite of us. The sad truth is however, that what we will reap is according to our submission. For it is quite hard to "Lay up treasure in heaven," if we are in rebellion, or misplaced faith.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Honestly Carol,
That's a great poem, I think the more places it's posted the better ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
THE CAUSE OF DIVISION: THE FLESH is a great article!
Thanks for posting it.
David
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Tell ya what. I'll delete that one, and we'll keep yours here. I like it here.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
I feel so silly.
After I got finished looking for that poem and posting it, I realized -- while looking around the boards -- you had already posted that poem LOL.
Maybe I should look over the boards more carefully from now on
God Bless
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Amen! God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are awesome and is always with us.
I beleive this is the poem you spoke of, I took the liberty of posting it here for those who wish to read it:
The Shepherd loved His little lamb,
And gave it tender care...
And followed it with loving eyes
As it wandered here and there.
And as He sat by His grazing flock
Who so meekly His voice obeyed
He pondered sadly His little lamb
As again and again it strayed.
The little lamb had a loving heart,
And adored His Shepherd, true...
But would turn aside and seek his own way
As lambs will so often do.
With His gentle voice the Shepherd called,
To His loved and straying lamb,
"Come back, little one, for you are not safe
Unless you are where I am."
But still the lamb would soon forget
And unthinkingly wander away,
And not really noticing what he did,
From the Shepherd's side would stray.
Until one day, the Shepherd kind
Took His rod in His gentle hand,
And what He then did seemed so cruel
That the lamb could not understand.
For with one sharp and well-aimed blow
Down the rod so swiftly came
That it broke the leg of the little lamb
And left it crippled, and lame.
Then the little lamb, with a cry of pain,
Fell down upon his knees...
And looked up at his Shepherd, as though to say,
"Won't you explain this, please?"
Then he saw the love in the Shepherd's eyes
As the tears ran down His face,
As He tenderly set the broken bone,
And bound it back in it's place.
Now he was utterly helpless,
He could not even stand!
He must trust himself completely
To his Shepherd's loving hand.
Then day by day, 'till the lamb was healed
From the flock he was kept apart...
And carried about in the Shepherd's arms,
And cradled near to His heart.
And the Shepherd would whisper gentle words
Into his now listening ear...
Thus he heard sweet words of love
That the other sheep could not hear.
He felt the warmth of the Shepherd's arms
And the beat of His faithful heart...
Until it came a blessing to seem,
By his weakness to be set apart.
Every need of the little lamb
By his Shepherd so fully was met
That through his brokenness he learned
What he never again would forget.
And as the broken bone was healed,
And once more became whole and strong...
Wherever the Shepherd's path would lead,
The lamb would follow along.
Thus at the Shepherd's side he walked
So closely, day by day,
For once a lamb has a broken leg
It will never again go astray.
For the cords of love had bound it so
In its hour of weakness and need...
That it had no desire to wander away,
When once again it was freed.
Could it be you are broken today,
And you cannot understand
The painful blow of the Shepherd's rod
Nor believe it came from His hand?
He only seeks, by this painful thing,
For a time to call you apart...
To cradle you close in His loving arms,
And draw you near to His heart.
So look up into your Shepherd's eyes,
And earnestly seek His face...
And prove in the hour of your weakness and need
The sufficiency of His grace.
For as you are borne in His loving arms,
And carried there, day by day...
He will bind you so close with the cords of His love
That never again will you stray!
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Bless you dear friend!
..."whether we submit or not"...read the poem about the straying lamb. I think our wonderful Shepherd can be counted on to do what is best even when we don't understand at first.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
quote:
The cause of division in the church was more than an external, worldly influence. It was also internal, fleshly. The Corinthians had succumbed to the pressures of the world, but they were also succumbing to the pressures and enticements of their own flesh.
This quote above reminds me of so many churches today… Whereas the flesh would be symbolized by pride.
So many churches wear their pride on their sleeves and let their pride be damaged so easily.
Their pride separates them from other believers – eg. Church of Christ is better than Baptist Church, or Pentecostal is better than Methodist.
You get the picture.
quote:
When we trust in Jesus Christ, His Spirit takes charge of our lives and remains in charge until we die. He will control us to His own ultimate ends, whether we submit or not
I understand the point of the quote above, but I do not agree with it – mainly the part that says, “He will control us to his own ultimate ends, whether we submit or not.”
That is not “free will” but something other. I agree that Christ will use us for his ends, as long as we are willing participants – free will, but I do not believe he will include us in his plans unless we submit.
quote:
A person who does not use information will lose it; and spiritual truth is no exception
I love this quote!
quote:
For a Christian preacher or teacher to give only milk week after week, year after year, is a crime against the Word of God and the Holy Spirit! It cannot be done without neglecting much of the Word and without neglecting the leading and empowering of the Holy Spirit, the supreme Teacher and Illuminator. It is also a terrible disservice to those who hear, whether or not they are satisfied with having only milk. The appetite must be created
I must admit – this quote above spoke to me strongly. One of the reasons I don’t go to church anymore is because I get this feeling. It seems week after week preachers are preaching the exact same thing they were preaching the week before, but just in a different context – and preaching down to people like they were infants…. That’s why it’s important for a church to be strong and grow together, so they can move from milk to real food – so the preacher doesn’t have to preach “down” to the congregation because of spiritual immaturity.
I mainly stopped going to church and began to walk on my own spiritual quest and path because I was tired of just milk… My soul needed more sustenance that I was not getting in the Church.
So far my path has been rough and I have been lead astray numerous times, but God always manages to guide me back onto the path – just like the beautiful and wonderful Sheppard he is.
quote:
Nothing is more precious or wonderful than a little baby. But a twenty–year–old with the mind of an infant is heartbreaking
Amen!
This has been a great post Carol and has started my morning off in the best way possible: pondering God's will.
Thanks for your time in posting this.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
THE CAUSE OF DIVISION: THE FLESH
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to babes in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. (1 Corinthians 3:1–3)
The cause of division in the church was more than an external, worldly influence. It was also internal, fleshly. The Corinthians had succumbed to the pressures of the world, but they were also succumbing to the pressures and enticements of their own flesh.
Before Paul chastises them for their immature sinfulness, he reminds them again that he is speaking to them as brethren, as fellow believers. That is a term of recognition and of love. It reminded his brothers in Christ that they were still saved, that their sinning, terrible and inexcusable as it was, did not forfeit their salvation. He did not try to diminish the seriousness of their sins, but he did try to diminish or prevent any discouragement that his rebuke might otherwise have caused. He stood with them as a brother, not over them as a judge.
But Paul could not speak to the Corinthian believers as spiritual men. They had come through the door of faith but had gone no farther. Most of them had received Jesus Christ years earlier but were acting as if they had just been born again. They were still babes in Christ.
The New Testament uses the word spiritual in a number of ways. In a neutral sense it simply means the realm of spiritual things, in contrast to the realm of the physical. When applied to men, however, it is used of their relationship to God in one of two ways: positionally or practically. Unbelievers are totally unspiritual in both senses. They possess neither a new spirit nor the Holy Spirit. Their position is natural and their practice is natural.
Believers, on the other hand, are totally spiritual in the positional sense, because they have been given a new inner being that loves God and is indwelt by His Holy Spirit. But practically, believers can also be unspiritual.
In 2:14–15 Paul contrasts believers and unbelievers, and his use of “spiritual” in that context refers, therefore, to positional spirituality. The “natural man” (v. 14) is the unsaved; “he who is spiritual” (v. 15) is the saved. In the positional sense, there is no such thing as an unspiritual Christian or a partially spiritual Christian. In this sense every believer is equal. This spiritual is a synonym for possessing the life of God in the soul, or as we saw in 2:16, having the mind of Christ.
A positionally spiritual person is one with a new heart, indwelt by and controlled by the Holy Spirit. “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him” (Rom. 8:9; cf. v. 14). When we trust in Jesus Christ, His Spirit takes charge of our lives and remains in charge until we die. He will control us to His own ultimate ends, whether we submit or not. “We know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose” (Rom. 8:28). Our resistance and disobedience can cause many unnecessary detours, delays, and heartaches, but He will accomplish His work in us. “he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus” (Phil. 1:6).
Practically, however, believers may be anything but spiritual. Such were the Corinthian Christians. Paul addressed them as brethren. but he made it clear that he had to speak to them on the lowest possible spiritual level. He had to speak to them as if they were men of flesh.
Men of flesh (sarkinos) is literally “fleshy ones.” In this context it refers to man’s fallen humanness, his Adamic self—his bodily desires that manifest rebelliousness toward God, his glorying in himself, and his proneness to sin. As mentioned above, the flesh is not eradicated when we are saved. It no longer can ultimately dominate or destroy us, but it can still greatly influence us. That is why we yearn for the redemption of the body (Rom. 8:23).
Glorification, in one sense, will be less of a change than justification. Justification was transformation of the inner being; glorification is the elimination of the outer being, which bears the curse.
So a Christian is not characterized by sin; it no longer represents his basic nature. But he is still able to sin, and his sin is just as sinful as the sin of an unbeliever. Sin is sin. When a Christian sins, he is being practically unspiritual, living on the same practical level as an unbeliever. Consequently Paul is compelled to speak to the Corinthian believers much as if they were unbelievers.
Perhaps somewhat to soften the rebuke, he also compares them to babes in Christ. It was far from a compliment, but it did recognize that they truly belonged to Christ.
The Corinthian believers were spiritually ignorant. Paul had ministered to them for eighteen months, and after that they were pastored by the highly–gifted Apollos. Some of them were acquainted with Peter and others apparently had even heard Jesus preach (1:12). Like the “babes” of Hebrews 5:13, they had no excuse for not being mature. Yet they were exactly the opposite. They were not babes because they were newly redeemed, but because they were inexcusably immature.
The Corinthians were not unintelligent. Their problem was not low IQ or lack of teaching. They were not ignorant of the faith because they were dumb, but because they were fleshly. The cause was not mental but spiritual. Because they refused to give up their worldly ways and their carnal desires, they became what James calls forgetful hearers (James 1:25). A person who does not use information will lose it; and spiritual truth is no exception. Spiritual truths that we ignore and neglect will become less and less remembered and meaningful (cf. 2 Pet. 1:12–13). Nothing causes us to ignore God’s truth more than not living it. A sinning Christian is uncomfortable in the light of God’s truth. He either turns from his fleshly behavior or he begins to block out God’s light. Only when we put aside “malice and all guile and hypocrisy and envy and all slander”—that is, the flesh—are we able to “long for the pure milk of the word” and “grow in respect to salvation” (1 Pet. 2:1–2).
I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. (3:2–3a)
When Paul first preached to the Corinthians he taught the more easily digestible elementary truths of doctrine, the milk. But now some five years later, they still needed to be fed milk. They could not yet spiritually digest solid food.
Like many Christians today, the Corinthians seemed quite content to stay on milk. Some congregations do not want the pastor to get “too deep.” Their fleshly habits are not much threatened if, for instance, the preacher sticks primarily to evangelistic messages. Evangelism is the cutting edge of the church’s mission, but it is for unbelievers, not believers. Or the congregation wants Scripture to be preached so superficially that their sin is not exposed, much less rebuked and corrected.
There is no difference at all between the truths of a spiritual milk diet and a spiritual solid food diet, except in detail and depth. All doctrine may have both milk and meat elements. It is not that we are to be continually learning new doctrines in order to grow, but that we are to be learning more about the doctrines we have known for years. A new Christian might explain the atonement, for example, as, “Christ died for my sins.” A long–time student of the Word, on the other hand, would go into such things as regeneration, justification, substitution, and propitiation. One explanation would not be truer than the other; but the first would be milk and the second, solid food.
For a Christian preacher or teacher to give only milk week after week, year after year, is a crime against the Word of God and the Holy Spirit! It cannot be done without neglecting much of the Word and without neglecting the leading and empowering of the Holy Spirit, the supreme Teacher and Illuminator. It is also a terrible disservice to those who hear, whether or not they are satisfied with having only milk. The appetite must be created.
Nothing is more precious or wonderful than a little baby. But a twenty–year–old with the mind of an infant is heartbreaking. A baby who acts like a baby is a joy; but an adult who acts like a baby is a tragedy. It doubtlessly grieved the Holy Spirit, as it grieved Paul, that the Christians in Corinth had never gotten out of their spiritual infancy. This tragedy is immensely worse than that of the physically or mentally retarded, who have no responsibility for their conditions. Spiritual retardation, however, is always primarily our own doing. We may not have the best human preacher or teacher, but every believer has the perfect Teacher within, who longs to instruct him in the things of God (cf. 1 John 2:20, 27). If we do not grow spiritually, the reason is always that we are still fleshly.
The believer’s growth times are those times when he walks in the Spirit (Gal. 5:16–17). It is essential to understand that carnality is not an absolute state in which a believer exists (Rom. 8:4–14), but a behavior pattern he chooses one moment at a time. To say it another way, a Christian is not fleshly in the sense of being, but in the sense of behaving.
(MacArthur)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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