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Topic: For me to live IS Christ!
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TB125:
I am only trying to clarify our understanding of the doctrine of salvation. I'm not yet sure who has it "right", so I continue to study various resources. Are you the only one whose trumpet has a "certain" sound?
I am more than confident, unto death, that it is our faith in the shed blood of Christ that saves the soul.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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TB125
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posted
Carol,
I have read the article on "What is Mysticism?" on this site and printed a copy of it. After a quick reading of this article, I don't believe that either Michael Harrison or James Fowler are "Christian mystics". I don't sense that any of the participants in our discussions regarding the doctrine of "salvation" and what it means to live "in Christ" are proposing the kind of "mystical" union with Christ that seems to be the focus of this site. Thanks for the link. It is interesting, and it presents another challenging perspective on this doctrine.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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TB125
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posted
I am only trying to clarify our understanding of the doctrine of salvation. I'm not yet sure who has it "right", so I continue to study various resources. Are you the only one whose trumpet has a "certain" sound?
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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WildB
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posted
TB Why do you coddle a person that is under Gods correction?
1Cor.14
[8] For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
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That is all.....
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TB125
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posted
Michael,
I labeled you a "mystic", but you may not be as "mystical" as you appear to be from your statements. It may just be that some of us find it hard to understand and to follow your postings. Anyway, I still recommend James Fowler's article to you. I think that you will find him and his writings to be very interesting.
Sincerely,
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Bob
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Sorry if I have you confused with another Bob. It seems less than two weeks ago you referred to this man as a mystic. And I recall something about my words sounding like they 'copied' him. But maybe I got confused.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TB125:
Then you and WildB get into a spinning discussion of the matter, and I don't believe that either one of you has checked the resource that I cited that was posted to help us all to understand this matter. This makes me dizzy.
You are most correct. I am here to repel the enemy.
Eph.6
[12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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TB125
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posted
Michael,
Where did I label James Fowler a "mystic"? And why do you ask me this question: quote:
What will you do, Bob, to 'appease' God?
My post was more in support of your statements and not a critical commentary to justify myself in any effort to 'appease' God. I don't claim to be able to do anything "righteous".
Then you and WildB get into a spinning discussion of the matter, and I don't believe that either one of you has checked the resource that I cited that was posted to help us all to understand this matter. This makes me dizzy.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Mine says:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Then why do you do it?
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That is all.....
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Michael Harrison
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posted
And why did these suffer? It was for upholding the truth. Yea that spirit still lives. It does 'persecute' the children of the freewoman.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Mine says:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
I suspect yours.
And Grace enabled these:
36] And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
[37] They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
[38] (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
But, bwilder, it is GRACE that DELIVERS. So he does always deliver, and entirely. But what did Paul say of grace that is as blind as lady justice? "GOD FORBID!" It is a bit too simple for some to get it though.
Well I guess your bible is better than Gods, for it reads......
Heb.11
36] And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
[37] They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
[38] (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
But, bwilder, it is GRACE that DELIVERS. So he does always deliver, and entirely. But what did Paul say of grace that is as blind as lady justice? "GOD FORBID!" It is a bit too simple for some to get it though.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Simplicity is in believing that HE saves, heals and delivers (and fellowships with His children).
And here I thought it was our faith in what he did on the Cross.
You do know with out the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin?
and also,
He does not always heal or deliver, but gives Grace for it is sufficient.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
quote:
Michael,
I think that the clearest most articulate explanation of what you have been trying to say in all of your posts about living "in Christ" and "having" Christ rather than trying to "do" anything righteous
Let me try again. What TB can you 'do' righteous? Let me save ye the trouble. You cannot 'do' a single thing, righteous. Then upon whom do you depend for righteousness? And how will you partake if you insult the gift of God?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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posted
God is Love. God also is judgment. Therefore a man's errors do not escape Him.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
This is totally lost, on the lost.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
What will you do, Bob, to 'appease' God?
Ah, more MH love in action.
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That is all.....
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Michael Harrison
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posted
What will you do, Bob, to 'appease' God?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Well, is it not good that someone else realizes the truth also? However, you have labeled this man as a mystic. I think I shouldn't go there.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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TB125
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posted
Michael,
I think that the clearest most articulate explanation of what you have been trying to say in all of your posts about living "in Christ" and "having" Christ rather than trying to "do" anything righteous is given by James Fowler in his article on "Union with Christ" on his website for Christ in You Ministries. It can be found here: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/unionwithchrist.html You and others who may be interested in his perspective will find a lot of other excellent articles regarding this subject on his site. I recommend his resources to us all.
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Bob
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Copper25
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posted
Wow, I marvel at the harmony that is missing on this post. Where is the element of civility my dear people? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Simplicity is in believing that HE saves, heals and delivers (and fellowships with His children). Fake simplicity believes that one can abide in his sin and still have justification.
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
![[Smile]](smile.gif) I just love an 'intelligent' argument!
No you like complicating the simplicity that is in Christ.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
I just love an 'intelligent' argument!
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Yes bwild, eden and I huddle together oftentimes as though in a club and 'point' the finger at others, and talk derrogatory about them instead of engaging in 'discussion'. Right? Who stands out, they who discuss, or they who constantly fault and defame?
And which is wrong, to preach against sin, or for it? After all, it seems that not a post goes by without someone wanting to pollute it with ill will when all one wants to do is to make a point; a good one at that. And the Good News is one of 'Good Will' which every man who has hope in Him should want to hear. Salvation is more than just a ticket good for future use. And freedom is more than 'the right to sin' while still claiming HIS name. A lot more!
As in the words of Keeper, "Ohhhh Shut Up !
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That is all.....
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Yes bwild, eden and I huddle together oftentimes as though in a club and 'point' the finger at others, and talk derrogatory about them instead of engaging in 'discussion'. Right? Who stands out, they who discuss, or they who constantly fault and defame?
And which is wrong, to preach against sin, or for it? After all, it seems that not a post goes by without someone wanting to pollute it with ill will when all one wants to do is to make a point; a good one at that. And the Good News is one of 'Good Will' which every man who has hope in Him should want to hear. Salvation is more than just a ticket good for future use. And freedom is more than 'the right to sin' while still claiming HIS name. A lot more!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Keeper wrote to Eden quote:
After I wrote to you about this then you turn around and ask me if I want to be a Christian.
I don't recall EVER asking you if you want to be a Christian. Why would I ask you that, I already know you are a Christian.
Keeper continued quote:
You talk about being sold down the river. I won't even respond to that one. Fact is I am tired of responding to you anyway.
I have never said anything about "being sold down the river". And if you are tired of responding to me, then get some rest and come back tomorrow when you are recharged. Overall, I have no problem talking to you, although you do weary me with statements like the above.
love, Eden
LOL Eden tells one get some rest and in the same breath says he is weary.
MH and you test the patience of many.
You two are not a good example for the guest that read this board.
Repent
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Keeper wrote to Eden quote:
After I wrote to you about this then you turn around and ask me if I want to be a Christian.
I don't recall EVER asking you if you want to be a Christian. Why would I ask you that, I already know you are a Christian.
Keeper continued quote:
You talk about being sold down the river. I won't even respond to that one. Fact is I am tired of responding to you anyway.
I have never said anything about "being sold down the river". And if you are tired of responding to me, then get some rest and come back tomorrow when you are recharged. Overall, I have no problem talking to you, although you do weary me with statements like the above.
love, Eden
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Keeper:
Ohhhh Shut Up !
Oh now you did it. You just encouraged him to spam the board all the more.
I shall continue to pray for these two that the Lord guide them out their cultist self serving ways.
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That is all.....
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Actually nothin I say is complicated. It just takes a lot of words to paint a picture so that someone, somewhere, will get it. But if I say it simply, it is just as overlooked. And the insincere heart doesn't want to hear the truth anyway. That is why!
You each claim to 'have' something, and are quick to defend it. But will you be defended on that day?
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
There are a lot of words here in this bbs alone, ye who are so sure!
and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.
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That is all.....
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Moreover, there is a difference between 'fact' and opinion. So it remains to be seen if I actually voiced my opinion, or the truth. If the truth, where will ye stand, ye who are quick to diss?
1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Actually nothin I say is complicated. It just takes a lot of words to paint a picture so that someone, somewhere, will get it. But if I say it simply, it is just as overlooked. And the insincere heart doesn't want to hear the truth anyway. That is why!
You each claim to 'have' something, and are quick to defend it. But will you be defended on that day?
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
There are a lot of words here in this bbs alone, ye who are so sure!
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Keeper
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posted
in special places
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Keeper
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posted
Eden, MH is entitled to his opinion, but I don't know why anymore. Isn't there a limit when you are using a public board? It seems to me that you, Eden, are about the only one who pays any attention to MH any more. His point, is always that you and I have failed in our salvation and are dumb and misled. Only on rare occasions does he write something of logic or truth but why even then? Go figure. Yes, his posts are complicated. Do you actually believe that if they were written properly that anyone would eat that stuff ? It is called deception.
You talk about MH like those who talk who voted for Obama. They both have rights, they are willing to exercise freedom of speech, they seem nice and intelligent. They want to help out. So far this is just talk like you could say about millions of others. Then you start telling of things you disagree with, like Jesus is literally in us, doing all our work, controlling our souls and we just stand back in awe. Total misuse of Gal 2:20 and hundreds of others.
After I wrote to you about this then you turn around and ask me if I want to be a Christian.
You talk about being sold down the river. I won't even respond to that one. Fact is I am tired of responding to you anyway.
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WildB
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posted
Eden encourages error,
"MH does have the most complicated way of explaining and conveying that idea to us that I actually marvel at how complicated he is making it in his writing."
2Cor.11
[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
I shall continue to pray for the two of you.
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That is all.....
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Keeper wrote quote:
I can't help myself here. You are so wrong that it is sickening. How can you say such things? This kind of junk comes straight from the devil himself. [...]
You should be ashamed of yourself.
I think MH is entitled to his opinion and does not need to be ashamed of himself, nor is he sickening.
I think in his posts he's trying to make the point that we need to faith that Jesus IN us will do the acting on our behalf, if we will only stop doing our OWN acting on our own behalf.
But MH does have the most complicated way of explaining and conveying that idea to us that I actually marvel at how complicated he is making it in his writing.
And also to this day, I do think that I still have a disagreement with MH, in that I think (I may be wrong) that MH teaches that Jesus does all the work in us--i.e., uses our spirit operations, uses our soul operations, and uses our body operations so that we almost, as it were, stand by in awe at His doings.
But if that is what MH believes, than I disagree with THAT part because I think that Jesus counsels me from heaven (where He is seated at the right hand of the Father) and by the Holy Spirit, Jesus counsels my spirit what to do next and then my spirit conveys that information to me, the soul, and I get to choose whether I want to implement Jesus's idea or my own idea.
But I would say that if I get to the point where I TRUST Jesus's Counsel SO MUCH because it is "continually good and perfect", then I would always be implementing Jesus's ideas and no longer bother with my own ideas, and then it could be said that:
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.
If eventually I only implement Jesus's Ideas as they come to me from heaven thru the Holy Spirit, then it can truly be said that "the life which I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God" once I am only implementing God's ideas, then it is "truly Jesus who lives in me".
I think that is the idea that MH is trying to convey too ... but I marvel at how he tries to convey the concept. But Keeper, I don't think that makes MH sickening or in need of being ashamed.
"For me to live is Christ!", MH wrote in his title; who knows that even his title alone may save someone who is thinking about being a Christian, Keeper?
love, Eden
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Keeper
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posted
I can't help myself here. You are so wrong that it is sickening. How can you say such things?
This kind of junk comes straight from the devil himself.
1 John 2:6, 1 John 3:6, 2 John 2, 1 John 15:7, Luke 16:17, Romans 8:26 and many more.
Way too many scriptures on works to list here.
Without works the spirit is dead.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
The Spirit approves!
http://www.ccci.org/growth/10-basic-steps/02-abundant-life/04-the-abiding-life.aspx
Satan lies. The trouble is, too many well meaning people believe him but deny it. Wanta hear one of his favorites? "You are abiding in Christ if you are saved." Yes it is! It is one of the devil's very favorites. And why is that? I will tell you. Shhhh! Come a little closer and listen: It is because the devil is mortally afraid of those who know the meaning of the abiding life. You dig?
Thas right! If he can get you to accept that you are 'abiding' when really you are in defeat, fighting the battles hot one moment, and cold the next, living on the high planes for an hour, but in the valley the next, and convince you that you are just 'toughing' it out for Christ, he is a very happy camper. For he has you doing the work instead of receiving the blessing. And he is not afraid of that. Because if you are doing the work, you are not abiding. And if you are doing the work, then you believed him. He's gotta dig that. For it gives him a breather.
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