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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » WHICH JESUS Do YOU SERVE?? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: WHICH JESUS Do YOU SERVE??
Found in Him
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Carol speaks well...The Holy Trinity is a mystery beyond our understanding.

What we do know is found in the word of God. The Lord our God is One Lord. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are One God.

Paul puts it well in the love chapter...12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.(1 Cor 13)

God is love.

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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yahsway
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Oh My! What an annointing from the True Christ! This young lady speaks the Truth. I hope everyone watches this video. Thanks for sharing.
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becauseHElives
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Allow me to re-introduce the Christ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNJ5oi1cw2I

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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The Holy Trinity is a mystery beyond our understanding.

The historic formulation of the Trinity (derived from the Latin word trinitas, meaning “threeness”) seeks to circumscribe and safeguard this mystery (not explain it; that is beyond us), and it confronts us with perhaps the most difficult thought that the human mind has ever been asked to handle. It is not easy; but it is true.

The basic assertion of this doctrine is that the unity of the one God is complex. The three personal “subsistences” (as they are called) are coequal and coeternal centers of self-awareness, each being “I” in relation to two who are “you” and each partaking of the full divine essence (the “stuff” of deity, if we may dare to call it that) along with the other two. They are not three roles played by one person (that is modalism), nor are they three gods in a cluster (that is tritheism) ; the one God (“he”) is also, and equally, “they,” and “they” are always together and always cooperating, with the Father initiating, the Son complying, and the Spirit executing the will of both, which is his will also. This is the truth about God that was revealed through the words and works of Jesus, and that undergirds the reality of salvation as the New Testament sets it forth.

The practical importance of the doctrine of the Trinity is that it requires us to pay equal attention, and give equal honor, to all three persons in the unity of their gracious ministry to us. That ministry is the subject matter of the gospel, which, as Jesus’ conversation with Nicodemus shows, cannot be stated without bringing in their distinct roles in God’s plan of grace (John 3:1-15; note especially vv. 3, 5-8, 13-15, and John’s expository comments, which NIV renders as part of the conversation itself, vv. 16-21).

All non-Trinitarian formulations of the Christian message are by biblical standards inadequate and indeed fundamentally false, and will naturally tend to pull Christian lives out of shape.

(Concise Theology)

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oneinchrist
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Amen, and I say again Amen!

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Found in Him
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That's quite a testimony Oneinchrist. I believe God ministers always with certainty...for He is truth. The peace of God testifying that it indeed was Him!

What a true statement that our Lord never exalted Himself! The Father has done this for Him by restoring Him with the glory that He had before He came to Earth(John 17:5) and giving Him the Name that is above all names.

The word says that those who will exalt themselves will be abased and those who humble themselves will be exalted.(Luke 14:11)

Phil 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

We know Him as our Savior and Lord as He has come into this world and as The Spirit and Father revealed Him as The Son of God and The Son of Man. But He was, He is, and always will be, The Almighty. (Rev 1:8)

He came as a baby-- But this was God
He humbled Himself and was found in the likeness of man (flesh)-- but He was God.
He submitted Himself to God our Father as a man, and was found perfect through complete obedience as a man to fulfill the law-- but He was still God.
He died as a perfect, obedient man born under the law-- And yet, He was God.

Rev 1
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen..

This is great news!

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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oneinchrist
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Hi Found in Him,
As far as the healing of your kidney stones.........all I can say is that the authority came from Heaven. Dont ask me all the particulars. I believe the bible gives us insight into the chain of command in action, but it does not give us all the details on how each One(Father,Son,and Holy Ghost) communicates with each other respective to that chain of authority.

Please let me share a testimony of mine concerning this issue. I was personally struggling over the issue of "Jesus is God".....very troubled in my spirit on how that truth should be interpreted. I went to the Lord Jesus in prayer and I believed in my heart if there was any real problem error in my thinking that He would reveal it to me in some way or another. The next morning just before I awoke I heard five words clear as day "Jesus did not exalt Himself". I immediately remembered my prayer to God and I felt a great sense of peace come over me as I thanked the Lord.

I later concluded that the Holy Ghost must have given me the answer because it spoke about Jesus in the second person and I also concluded that Jesus wanted to be certain that my present view did not remove the honor that He believes that His Father deserves. Other than that I do not know what to say.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Keeper
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Our Heavenly Father said that we are not to compare Him (Them) to anything and that any thoughts we have about Heavenly things are mere foolishness. He also said we know not what He looks like. Is it a bad thing that God does not use the same governmental structure as we do?
Our use of our government makes it look like it came from some a Swiss Dairy. (holes in it)

We treat the law from God and the law from man poorly but not because of the originator.

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Found in Him
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Yahsway,

Jesus serves as High Priest. That does not make Him less than equal. He is "The Way" but is also our life God our Savior, and The I AM.

Jesus is "The One" that was sent. This does not make Him less than The Father or Spirit.

Jesus taught us how to pray addressing The Father. We are ONLY reconciled through Him and have access to Heaven through Him...but still makes Him no less than The Father.

This could go on and on but it attempts to place one over The other and it is in vain.

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Found in Him
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Betty,
I know. It's my prayer that folks would see God as He is and would not try to assign Him His place or office. Seems as if it is limiting God.

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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yahsway
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It is whatsoever you ask the Father in Jesus Name, and you shall have it.

When the disciples prayed after Yeshua went to heaven (read the New Test) whom did they address?

Who reconciles you back to the Father?

Paul sooo many times refers to Yeshua in this way

Eph. 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ,

3:14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

I could go on an on, they are to numerous to mention.

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Betty Louise
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I find it interesting that people want to argue about the chain of level of God when the Godhead is equal among themselves.
betty


Phl 2:5
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
Phl 2:6
who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Phl 2:7
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Phl 2:8
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Phl 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
Phl 2:11
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Found in Him
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Yes He is isn't He Betty? I was making my point in that it seems nonsense to try to split them apart. It was just my example of how it would be confusing to view them at different command levels. Jesus made things simple.

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Betty Louise
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Jesus has been a part of God since the beginning.

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is equal in the Godhead.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Found in Him
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Hmmmm... so, when I was healed of kidney stones, did the Holy Spirit ask Jesus to ask God The Father if I could receive this healing? or did Jesus ask The Father if it was ok and then gave the healing to The Son to give to The Holy Spirit to give to me? Or did The Father decide that it was His will, gave it to The Son, who gave it to The Holy Spirit, who gave it to me?

What say you?

Peradventure that when Christ walked the Earth, He walked in perfect submission to The Father to thus fulfill complete, perfect obedience as a man to the law to in turn fulfill the righteousness of the law in us who walk according to the Spirit?

Would this make Jesus less than God because He humbled Himself as a man so that we might become the righteousness of God?

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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oneinchrist
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Chain of command?

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; as the father gave Me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 10:18 No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of My Father.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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becauseHElives
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http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=8a0e4b0772d3d28afe9e

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Eden
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Found in Him wrote
quote:
"That God may be all in all" God as in God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit.
I do tend to think that God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit are so in tune with each other and "all have, as it were, the Mind of Christ", that They All Three "act SO SEAMLESSLY" that one would be hard-pressed to be able to "find a hierarchy" among These Three who are "so Kind" and so "of One Mind" and "so Loving", that a hierarchy would "not be noticeable".

The hierarchy may be KNOWN ABOUT from history, but other than that, the hierarchy is invisible in practice because They all Act the Same.

Eden

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Copper25
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Indeed, true [Smile]

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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field

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Found in Him
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"That God may be all in all" God as in God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit.

That is what I see.

In Revelation 21 and 22 we see that this is clearly after the kingdom is delivered up. The bible describes God as one temple and one throne. One God. God is then "All in All"

Revelation 22

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Copper25
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1 corinthians 15

27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


The sad thing is, we have been through this same thing on a very recent thread [Big Grin]


when all things shall be subdued unto him

thats Jesus, our Lord, and our God

then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,

Thats the Father, our God

Let me make this clear, truine God just so there is no confusion. Take that text and read it as a child with simplicity and it should become painfully clear. By the way, I am not saying that the Glory of the Lord Jesus is going to be diminished in any way ether. Nor that One is more God than the other. So read it if you will.
And I may regret this, but....... tell...me...what...you...see. [Frown]

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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field

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Found in Him
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Copper wrote...or were some rather pointing out the Hierarchy that the scripture plainly puts.

What is "The Hierarchy" ? Just what does that mean? or how are you describing God by this?

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Copper25
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Simply put. Just because the bible shows a Hierarchy. Why do you think that that would in any way diminish the glory and power of the trinity, the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We have a triune God, but from what I read, was anyone one this thread denying that they were indeed one ,or were some rather pointing out the Hierarchy that the scripture plainly puts. Frankly a person can ether accept what the scripture says or bend against it, it is plainly put in scripture.

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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field

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Found in Him
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"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace," (Isaiah 9:6).

Hebrews 1
For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father"? Or again,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son"? And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him." In speaking of the angels he says,
"He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire." But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

The Father commands that all honor The Son as they honor The Father... The Son calls God His God.. The Father calls The Son His God... The Father gives The Son All authority and power in Heaven and in Earth... The Son hands the kingdom back to "GOD" at the end of the age.... The Father declares that there is No End to The Son's throne or reign... Jesus says "thine is the Kingdom" The Father exalts The Son and gives Him The name above all names... And The Spirit Joyfully has spoken all of The above to us.

They are ONE GOD. God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit. No one can separate them or assign them their rank, especially when they seem to esteem one another like this. It is Beautiful.

"Hear O Israel, The LORD our GOD is ONE GOD"

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Eden
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Found in Him wrote
quote:
“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but he also said that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18) Each person of the Godhead has the authority of God and the power of God.
Okay, here's an interesting question for you. Jesus said that God is now also OUR Father:

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, Do not touch me; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and to YOUR Father; and to my God and to YOUR God.

So let me repeat what Found in Him wrote
quote:
“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but he also said that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18) Each person of the Godhead has the authority of God and the power of God.
Okay, Found in Him, let me ask you, since Jesus said that HIS Father is now also OUR Father, and since "Jesus was equal with God. (John 5:18)", are we still just humans, or "are we now equal with God" too?

I was just wondering...thanks, Eden
"you are loved"

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Found in Him
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First learn who "GOD" is according to the word of God...

“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18) Each person of the Godhead has the authority of God and the power of God. “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:2) God alone has the power of foreknowledge; God alone has the authority to sanctify; God alone has the authority of salvation. God as the three persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit makes up the Godhead.

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7).

The Lord Jesus Christ said to his disciples, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". (Matthew 28:19). The unity of the Godhead is clear in his words, "baptizing them in the NAME (singular)." He did not say baptize them in the names (plural). Yet the tri-unity of the Godhead is clearly presented in his words: "the Father, AND of the Son, AND of the Holy Ghost." The word of God is wonderfully perfect. Normally when we hear people attempt to quote this, they say "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." It is not that. It is in the name of the Father, AND of the Son, AND of the Holy Ghost. Why are those "ANDs" put in? In order that we may know that while there is only one God, yet that one God exists eternally in three persons - Father and Son and Holy Ghost.

"Hear, 0 Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD." (Deuteronomy 6:4). Our Lord Jesus Christ confirmed this in Mark 12:29. The apostle Paul stated the same truth: "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one: but God is one." (Galatians 3:20). Likewise, the apostle James wrote: "Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well" (James 2:19)

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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kjw47
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Hi Friends, at 1 corinthians 15:24 it iteaches that Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God and Father. Here again Gods word teaches that Jesus has a God. The scripture at Hebrew 1:8 is not being represented right, because at 1:9 it again teaches that Jesus has a God. But out of Jesus own mouth at rev 3:12 is the clincher, because Jesus is sitting at Gods right hand when he made this statement. Psalm 83:18 is truth
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Found in Him
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
God, in Christ, sacrificed by giving of Himself to become equal to man (John 3:16,17).

God so loved the world that He gave His Son Jesus, Who is GOD. Man could NEVER be equal to GOD


quote:
He temporarily laid aside the manifestations of His consummate divine identity to unite mankind into His body (Philippians 2:6,7).
Jesus "took on" the form of a Servant He did not lay aside His Divinity!
(Philippians 2:6,7)
6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.


quote:
He was anointed as a servant to perform a specific task (Philippians 2:7,8). God exercised His spiritual headship over Christ. Christ is equal to God, united with God and anointed by God. Christ exercises His spiritual headship over His church (male and female, and husband and wife). His church is equal to Him, united with Him and anointed by Him to anoint others.
[B]Jesus HUMBLED Himself as The GOD man 100%GOD 100%MAN under GOD THE father. And the Church is NOT His "equal" for there is NO Equal to GOD. We are "covered" and accepted by His blood

7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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becauseHElives
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God, in Christ, sacrificed by giving of Himself to become equal to man (John 3:16,17). He temporarily laid aside the manifestations of His consummate divine identity to unite mankind into His body (Philippians 2:6,7). He was anointed as a servant to perform a specific task (Philippians 2:7,8). God exercised His spiritual headship over Christ. Christ is equal to God, united with God and anointed by God. Christ exercises His spiritual headship over His church (male and female, and husband and wife). His church is equal to Him, united with Him and anointed by Him to anoint others. Ephesians 5:21-33 exemplifies the headship role of the husband over the wife. She is equal to him, united with him and anointed by him to anoint others. Colossians 3:1-25 (see also Ephesians 4:20-5:33) give us excellent instruction for accomplishing the goal of spiritual headship.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Keeper
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As hard as I try I can not vision a "chain of command" within the Trinity.

To say that one has authority over another because they agree on something or seek the others approval doesn't make sense to me.

When Yahshua was on earth in the flesh I can well understand his saying that he was depending on the word of Yahweh, praying to Yahweh, etc.

I also believe that either of the three could do what the other did. I would not hazard a guess as to why each choose the role that they did.
They are all three spirits and they are all God.

It also makes sense that when the new heaven and the new earth are, when we are established in heaven, then the trinity may change.

As for what we visualize of the members of the trinity is most likely established by some paintings we have seen. We read "in our image" but what does that really mean ? Does God look like he is a regular at Gym and has a long white beard and pointing his finger at someone? Does Jesus have a hippie haircut, a long beard, and needs fed? What about the Spirit, what does he look like ? Does Jesus sit on that chair at the right hand of God 24/7 and are they sitting in clouds? When the clouds are gone or if there is a bad storm what then, do they just leave until more clouds come in again?

Has anyone ever figured out what went with the flesh bodies of those who were taken to heaven already like Jesus ? Why do we worry about such things?

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Found in Him
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I see where this could spin circles for three eons... I believe all would agree that there is ONE GOD, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

No one can divide God or assign Him His office or offices for He is GOD.

I think all would agree that the Godhead glorifies and testifies of one another.

GOD will not share His glory with another. GOD retains ALL glory in HIMSELF within the Godhead.

No one can assign or delegate Him His Authority BUT Himself.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Found in Him
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Where do you find this chain of command in the scripture?

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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becauseHElives
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But I would have you know, that the authority of every man is Yahshua ;

and the authority of the woman is the man;

and the authority of Yahshua is Yahweh.


there is much misunderstanding on this chapter in scripture....

the one Truth that must be understood is authority is important to understand in the Kingdom of Yahweh...

and while there is an equality in the Trinity , there is also a chain of command....

Yahshua made it plain He did not do anything without first having heard from the Father first....

it is clear from scripture that Yahshua while on earth only operated as a man filled with the Holy Spirit, being lead and directed in all thing to the will of the Father.....

and according to the way many want to twist the meaning of 1st 1 Corinthians has something to do with the culture of the time period.....

to be continued....

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Keeper
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One in Christ, You asked Found in Him how she interprets the meaning of "head" in 1 Cor 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man (husband)is Christ; and the head of a woman (wife) is the man (husband); and the head of Christ is God.

She has done an excellent job of giving her viewpoint. I will try to add some other info.

The NT church is viewed primarily as an organism, and "head" is used in an organic rather than organizational sense.

For some examples, Christ is the "head" of the Church. (see above scripture). Jesus is the one who sustains, protects, and guides the Church to whom he himself gives life.

Another is where the husband is the head of the wife, Eph 5:22-33, Here the emphasis is on the organic head in nourishing life. Like Jesus gave himself up for the church, the husband should be willing to help the wife reach her spiritual goals, by feeding and caring.

Inherent superiority/inferiority is not an issue, because Paul says, the order of creation established by God indicates that "woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman". Their roles are interdependent and complementary.

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Found in Him
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The Godhead is not something that man reveals. It's something that God reveals. Keep one thing in mind. Christ thought equality with God NOT robbery But humbled Himself as your servant unto death-- death so that you might have life.

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

To say that He is not an equal member of the Godhead makes His sacrifice what?

You decide.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Found in Him
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Yes God is The Head as Christ our Head until the End when the kingdom is delivered up to God--Then "GOD" (The Father, Son and Holy Spirit) Shall be all in all. Right now we are all subject to Christ as God has Him ABOVE ALL.

We are in the dispensation of grace that has come to us through the ministry of The Son. He is the Head, High Priest and Minister before the alter. This makes Jesus no less than The Spirit or The Father-- But it makes Him GOD our Savior!

1 Corinthians 15
24 Then the end will come, when after he has done away with every ruler and every authority and power, the Messiah hands over the kingdom to God the Father. 25 For he must rule until God puts all the Messiah’s enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be done away with is death, 27 for “God has put everything under his feet.” Now when he says, “Everything has been put under him,” this clearly excludes the one who put everything under him. 28 But when everything has been put under him, then the Son himself will also become subject to the one who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Not because the Son was not subject to his Father before, but because his body, that is to say, the Church which is here in distress, and not yet wholly partaker of his glory, is not yet fully perfect: and also because the bodies of the saints which are in the graves, will not be glorified until the resurrection. But Christ as he is God, has us subject to him as his Father has, but as he is Priest, he is subject to his Father together with us.

The Son himself . subject-not as the creatures are, but as a Son voluntarily subordinate to, though co-equal with, the Father. In the mediatorial kingdom, the Son had been, in a manner, distinct from the Father. Now, His kingdom shall merge in the Father's, with whom He is one; not that there is thus any derogation from His honor; for the Father Himself wills "that all should honor the Son, as they honor the Father" (Joh 5:22, 23; Heb 1:6).

~~~~~~

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy
Spirit, be with you all.” II Corinthians 13:14

It would be blasphemous to mention the Son and the Spirit in the same breath with God the Father if they were not equal with Him (see also: I Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; I
Peter 1:2).

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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oneinchrist
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Hi Found in Him,
In reference to your statement that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are equal in authority:

How do you interpret this verse from 1Corinthians 11:3?

3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

To be more specific, how do you interpret the meaning of the word "head?"

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Found in Him wrote
quote:
That's alright Eden, The very people He came to never believed that He was who He said He was either.
That's right, sister, go ahead and lump me together now with unbelievers.

Howbeit, Found in Him, as per your suggestion, in my next reading of the New Testament, I will pay more especial attention to searching out whether my view, that Jesus had to come the first time around as an identical "second Adam" is true or contradicted by other verses.

Acts 2:22 (King James Version)

22 You men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, as you yourselves also know.

Who ACTUALLY did the miracles that Jesus did? God in heaven worked thru the vessel of Jesus to do the miracles, just as Jesus said:

John 5:19
Then Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever He does, these also the Son does likewise.

John 5:30
I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who has sent me.

John 8:28
Then Jesus said to them, When you have lifted up the Son of man, then shall you know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father has taught me, I speak these things.

Jesus was just like the first Adam in the garden of Eden before the first Adam sinned.

That's why God had to implant a fertilized egg in Mary's womb by sending the Holy Spirit to overwhelm Mary, and therefore Jesus DID NOT COME through the line of the original Adam and Eve, but was an "extraterrestrial insertion" into the Adamic line of Adam and Eve, whose line had been sullied and dirtied by sin.

And so Jesus was born from fresh, pure Holy Spirit sent directly from heaven and implanted as a fertilized egg in the womb of Mary, where it grew for 9 months into the second man and last Adam, who started a second or new Adamic line, the old Adamic line having been crucified as the "old man" with Christ on the cross:

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him ...

So now on earth there are TWO Adamic lines, one from the first man, and one from the second man.

love, Eden

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Found in Him
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That's alright Eden, The very people He came to never believed that He was who He said He was either. They nailed Him to a tree. But they never succeeded in reducing Him. The enemy is very unsuccessful at this too..

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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As for Adam being the "first man" and Jesus being the "second man" and the "last Adam", I submit these verses:

1 Corinthians 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

So why is Jesus called the "second" man? Isn't Jesus about the "billionth" man in the 1st century A.D.? Of course Jesus is the billionth man, but in scripture Jesus is said to be the "second" man. Why? Because Jesus was made IDENTICAL to the "first man", though He was the Lord of heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul {creature}; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

How can Jesus have been the "last" Adam, since AFTER Him there were "many more Adams" or descendants of Adam, whom we are too.

Above in 1Cor.15:45, we also see that Adam is called the "first man Adam". So Jesus was called "the second man".

But how can Jesus have been the "last" Adam? Jesus can only have been the "last" Adam if there have historically been ONLY TWO ADAMS on earth like the first Adam before he sinned in the garden.

The first Adam sinned, but the second Adam did not. And once the second Adam had paid the price for what the first Adam had done, God crucified all that belonged to the "first man" on the cross as the "old man".

So everything that has come out of the first Adam is now called the "old man" and has been crucified on the cross with Jesus.

And out of the second man or last Adam (the new Adam), has come the "new man", by which, as we learn to lay down our own soul life and diminish, that Jesus and the Holy Spirit may become our life instead.

And to the extent that we are able to "lay down our soul life" and "trust the Holy Spirit and have ears to hear the Holy Spirit", to that extent will the Godhead, as the Holy Spirit, be in us too, as "He guides our steps" and "we cease from our own works".

So Found in Him, that's what I currently believe.

love, Eden

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Found in Him wrote[to Eden
quote:
Eden, Why do you continue to make comments like that? Jesus didn't just "act out of the Son of man role" as you stated.
1. He had the power to forgive sins- ONLY God can do that.
2. Jesus statement of being I AM. This is Eternal
3. Truly, in Jesus was the full representation of the Godhead. Colossians 2:9 - The FULLNESS of DEITY in BODILY FORM
4. Omnipresent - God’s presence is everywhere
Nathaniel - John 1:45-49. Lazarus’ death - John 11:3-15
5. Omniscient - God is all knowing. Woman at the well - John 4:16-19
John 2:24-25 - Jesus knew the hearts of all men
John 16:30 - The disciples testified that Jesus knew all things.

My current view is that:

1. Jesus was the Only Begotten Son of God BEFORE Jesus incarnated on earth.

2. While on earth, Jesus was the Son of man and Jesus was made IDENTICAL to the first Adam BEFORE the first Adam SINNED.

3.After Jesus resurrected, Jesus became the Only Begotten Son of God again, but now having added the title of Son of man.

The sin of the first Adam was that Adam activated his own soul life and God withdrew His Spirit from Adam and Adam could no longer contact the Holy Spirit on his own.

So the first Adam took up his own soul life, but Jesus, as the "Son of man" and the "second man" and as the "last Adam" on earth, Jesus "divested himself from his soul life" and as a result, Jesus had 100% Holy Spirit inside of Him, so that He said, "I do nothing except the Father show me first".

And since the Holy Spirit is God, the the "fullness of the Godhead" dwelled in Jesus since Jesus as the Son of man and as the last Adam "never actuated from his soul life", but Jesus "always only did what the Holy Spirit said to do next".

As a result, the fullness of the Godhead dwelled in Jesus, eventhough Jesus was only the Son of man or the "second man" or the "last Adam".

Because in order to PAY the PENALTY for the sin that the first Adam had committed, God had to have a LIKE SACRIFICE, that is, and IDENTICAL ADAM like before the first Adam sinned, otherwise it would not be proven that Adam COULD have remained full of the Godhead himself.

Because in the garden of Eden, it clearly says that Adam and Eve "knew that they were naked", and I think that the glory of God that was on them in the garden, just as it was on the Son of man Jesus during His life on earth, that glory of God that was on the first Adam lifted off Him and then "Adam and Eve could see that they were naked without the glory", like a garment that was taken off them.

But in any case, Jesus had to be an idential Adam as the first Adam before he sinned, so that Jesus could prove that the first Adam COULD have stayed faithful to God, and Jesus as the Son of man or the second man or the last Adam proved that.

But yet Jesus on earth as the Son of man was God in the sense that Jesus NEVER activated his soul life but ALWAYS waited 100% on the LORD, as teh first Adam before he sinned, and as a result 100% Holy Spirit dwelled in Jesus, and since the Holy Spirit IS God, thus the fullness of the Godhead dwelled in Jesus.

And that is also why Jesus said: "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father".

that's all for now.
love, Eden

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Found in Him
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Yes I also agree that "sitting at the right Hand of God" is much, much more than it sounds...

"Heb.1:8" But to the Son he says "Your throne, O God is forever and ever... God, even thy God, hath anointed you with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Psalm 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Mark 14:62 States that sitting at the right hand is "The right hand of power"

Hebrews. 8:1 "We have a High Priest .. He has His place at the Right Hand of the Throne of Majesty in the Heavens; and He is the Minister of the Sanctuary."

Hebrews 10:11,12 "All the Priests stand at their duties (in the Temple) every day, offering over and over again, the same sacrifices. He on the other hand, has offered one single Sacrifice for sins, and then taken His place for ever, at the Right Hand of God, where He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool." (Ps 110:1 thus fulfilled).

Roman 8 : 34 "He rose from the dead, and there at God's Right Hand, He stands pleading for us".

Eph 1
That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Keeper
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Well, I'll tell you something. I have a hard time picturing Jesus or the Holy Spirit on their knees before God the Father.

I have nothing that tells me that this bowing of one to the other is right or wrong so I choose to not think of such an action.

Talk like this just tells me that someone is trying to outguess the Trinity and put one above the other. We know so very little about the Trinity, and that is no less than we should know.

Most of us are well aware that Jesus spoke highly of His Father in Heaven but He also called Himself God. The Spirit is of God.
Furthermore, I personally consider "sitting at the right hand of my father" to be a description other than what it sounds.

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Found in Him
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No we wouldn't assume that. We stray when we stray from the written word and assume. We have one God that is defined by the word of God as: God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit. We know that they are equal in power, authority and work in perfect harmony. Each testifies and glorifies the other.

The Son of God glorifies God (Romans 16:27). The Father and the Son glorify each other: “These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:” (John 17:1) The Spirit glorifies God and Christ Jesus (John 16:13-15)

Jesus left His home in Glory and came and humbled Himself and took on human flesh to die for our sins. Because of everything He has accomplished and overcome, He has received of The Father The Name that is above every name, all power and all authority.. The Spirit and Father testify to this.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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kjw47
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Hi Friends, At acts 2:22 it says Gods power went through Jesus. To Eden: i mentioned that at rev 3:12 Jesus is sitting at Gods right hand when he said this. God and Jesus are one in purpose. After all Jesus also said-- The Father is greater than i.-- Jesus was taught, Given to by his Father, his God. Didnt the Jewish nation serve -- The only true God-- for years? They served Jehovah ( Yahwey ) So wouldnt one Assume that-- The only true God-- who is Jehovah was called that for the first 4000 years in biblical chronology, would want to be known by that name when in heaven on his throne. The name Jesus mentions to the true christians, at John 17:6-- The name put in the ot by Gods will, nearly 7000 times ( because he wants it there) and taken out by men ( they had no right ) Replaced everywhere ( a few exceptions ) with-- GOD, or LORD And it is exactly as it says at psalm 83:18 Jehovah is the most high ( meaning God ) Picture in your mind John 17:1-3 Jesus is on his knees to the Father, And Jesus says the Father is the only true God, listen to Jesus
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Found in Him
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Eden, Why do you continue to make comments like that? Jesus didn't just "act out of the Son of man role" as you stated.
1. He had the power to forgive sins- ONLY God can do that.
2. Jesus statement of being I AM. This is Eternal
3. Truly, in Jesus was the full representation of the Godhead. Colossians 2:9 - The FULLNESS of DEITY in BODILY FORM
4. Omnipresent - God’s presence is everywhere
Nathaniel - John 1:45-49. Lazarus’ death - John 11:3-15
5. Omniscient - God is all knowing. Woman at the well - John 4:16-19
John 2:24-25 - Jesus knew the hearts of all men
John 16:30 - The disciples testified that Jesus knew all things.

So what did Jesus "empty" himself of while here on Earth?? Philippians 2:5-8 Jesus was fully God while on earth. He did not give up the attributes of deity while on Earth. Rather Jesus took on, or added to himself the likeness of man. Becoming a man was an addition to his previous state of being.
What Jesus did give up is stated clearly in this passage. Jesus was God, but he became a servant.
Jesus gave up his exalted position. He did not change his nature. He did not change who he was. He changed his position - he humbled himself.
Humbled - tepeinoo - “to bring low, abase, or to make oneself of low condition”

It is the opposite of “to exalt oneself, lift up, or to become haughty, proud, or elevated above others. To state that he gave up his powers or his divinity is to add something that is not in this passage nor found in scripture.

1. To say that Jesus was "created" in Mary's womb is a lie because God cannot be "created"
2. To say that Jesus only "acted out of His Son of man role" is also a lie- The works and words of Jesus testify to His deity role while on Earth.
3. To say that Jesus was less than deity borders denying Christ coming in the flesh-- which is the spirit of the antichrist.

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Eden
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Hi, kjw47, the reason why Jesus while on earth said things like
quote:
Jesus that tells all creation that he has a God at rev 3:12 ( while he sits at Gods right hand ) He says it 4 times, stressing this truth to all who listen to him. Also Jesus at John 17: 1-6 Calls the Father- The only true God ( can it be any clearer ) ...
That is because when Jesus came the first time Jesus came as the second man or last Adam, meaning that there were only two adams, the first one in the garden before he sinned, and Jesus.

In order to win back the creation for God, Jesus incarnated into the earth exactly like the first Adam who was in the garden of Eden, created directly by God by implantation in Mary's womb, and when Jesus came out of the womb, Jesus was just like the first Adam in the garden before he sinned.

That is, God had to provide a "like person with the same capacities" as the first Adam in order to fairly pay for the sins of the first Adam, and Jesus as the second man or last Adam accomplished that and was exalted to be the Son of God in heaven again, which He was before He became the Son of man (the second man or last Adam).

But while Jesus was on earth, He always acted out of His Son of man to whom God in heaven was the only God, and as such, Jesus spoke in the manner while on earth, that you described, kjw47.

love, Eden of Chilmad

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Found in Him
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God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit are One God.

KJV
1 John
5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy
Ghost: and these three are one.

The Gospel of Matthew names the persons of the triune Godhead: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” (Matthew 28:19) Jesus tells us in the Gospel of John that, “I and my Father are one.” (John 10:30)

The persons of the Godhead are equal to each other, too. “Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18) Each person of the Godhead has the authority of God and the power of God. “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:2) God alone has the power of foreknowledge; God alone has the authority to sanctify; God alone has the authority of salvation. God as the three persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit makes up the Godhead.

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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kjw47
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Hi Friends, I believe in the Jesus that tells all creation that he has a God at rev 3:12 ( while he sits at Gods right hand ) He says it 4 times, stressing this truth to all who listen to him. Also Jesus at John 17: 1-6 Calls the Father- The only true God ( can it be any clearer ) Paul taught at 1 cor 8:6 There is one God to all the Father. This is truth. The name Jesus taught his followers at John 17:6 is found at psalm 83:18 Jehovah is the only true God-- listen to Jesus
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Keeper
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To forsake is to abandon, leave, or give up on someone or something.
A couple of examples are God's people abandoning Him.
Another is God abandoning us.

In Hebrew two words are used, azab which is a strong use of the term. Jer 1:16

The other for less serious use is natash.

In Greek, enkataleipo for the stronger use.
Matt 27:46

As for your comments above, everything we have IS HIS, Like it or not.

Your question about Matt 9:5 is out of context to the subject. Jesus was being accused of blasphemy by a scribe for healing a man.

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