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Topic: come out from among them
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
quote:
what does this "moving deeper inside the kingdom of the Son consist of"?
in one word.....surrender
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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hey, becauseHElives, I really enjoyed reading these words, they made me laugh in the Lord: quote:
"Only ye shall not go very far away" (Exodus 8:28).
This is a crafty word from the Pharaoh.
Great exhortation..."Only you shall not go very far away".
I love that; it is so true. Pharaoh represents Satan in this verse, and Satan says to the person wanting to believe in Jesus, "only you shall not go far away", but you say, "I must go worship the LORD in the wilderness".
And I do think that eventhough Christians have been transfered into the kingdom of His dear Son", that too many Christians "are still hanging out on the border of Satan's kingdom", as in the Israelites saying, "we want to go back to Egypt where at least we had fish and garlic to eat".
And so Satan says like Pharaoh: "only you shall not go far away"...
I agree with you; too many Christians are still hanging out near the border of Egypt, which is representative of Satan's kingdom, and they need to move deeper inside, Amen?
But let me ask you, what does this "moving deeper inside the kingdom of the Son consist of"? More Bible study? Being more honest in at the cashier when she has undercharged me by a dollar? Not going to Hollywood's movies anymore. becauseHElives, what does this "moving away from the border consist of"?
love, Eden of Chilmad who never was in Eden because his forefathers messed it up for him"
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Eden
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hey, becauseHElives, I really enjoyed reading these words, they made me laugh in the Lord: quote:
"Only ye shall not go very far away" (Exodus 8:28).
This is a crafty word from the Pharaoh.
Great exhortation..."Only you shall not go very far away".
I love that; it is so true. Pharaoh represents Satan in this verse, and Satan says to the person wanting to believe in Jesus, "only you shall not go far away", but you say, "I must go worship the LORD in the wilderness".
And I do think that eventhough Christians have been transfered into the kingdom of His dear Son", that too many Christians "are still hanging out on the border of Satan's kingdom", as in the Israelites saying, "we want to go back to Egypt where at least we had fish and garlic to eat".
And so Satan says like Pharaoh: "only you shall not go far away"...
I agree with you; too many Christians are still hanging out near the border of Egypt, which is representative of Satan's kingdom, and they need to move deeper inside, Amen?
love, Eden
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Come Ye Out From Among Them
by Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Morning By Morning, June 27, pg. 181, Published 1984
"Only ye shall not go very far away" (Exodus 8:28).
This is a crafty word from the Pharaoh. If the poor bondaged Israelites must go out of Egypt, then he bargains with them that it will not be very far away - at least not far enough to escape the terror of his arms and the observation of his spies.
After the same fashion, the world would have us be more charitable and not carry matters with too severe a hand. Death to the world and burial with Christ are experiences which carnal minds treat with ridicule. Worldly wisdom recommends the path of compromise and talks of moderation. According to this carnal policy, purity is admitted to be very desirable, but we are warned against being too precise. Truth is of course to be followed, but error is not to be severely denounced. "Yes," says the world, "be spiritually minded by all means, but do not deny yourself a little frivolity. What's the good of criticizing something when it is so fashionable and everybody does it?" Multitudes of professing Christians yield to this cunning advice to their own eternal ruin. If we would follow the Lord wholly, we must go right away into the wilderness and leave the carnal world behind us. We must leave its maxims, pleasures, and religion and go far away to the place where the Lord calls His sanctified ones. When the town is on fire, our house cannot be too far from the flames. To all true believers, let the trumpet call be sounded,
"Come ye out from among them; be ye separate" (2 Corinthians 6:17).
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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posted
Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.
Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, has abounded unto many.
Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
Which does not give us permission to now "go out and sin more than ever" now that we have been saved by grace, and not of works.
Nor does it mean that we suddenly turn into supermen.
Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.
Just by accepting Jesus Christ we have "already come out from among them":
Colossians 1:13
Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son.
I've already come out of Satan's world by accepting Jesus as my Savior.
love, Eden of Chilmad
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becauseHElives
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posted
thank you for explaining her position... I still don't see the relevance....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Found in Him
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Member # 7596
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posted
Becausehelives... what Betty said has everything to do with the discussion. Believers of The Lord Jesus Christ Are The church of The Lord Jesus Christ. The Church IS separate from the world as we have the circumcision of the heart...
ATTENTION: this means we reach out, minister and pray for salvation for the lost-- not sit around and condemn sinners and other fellow believers of The Lord Jesus Christ over disputable, petty matters.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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becauseHElives
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posted
Betty what does that have to do with the discussion "come out from among them"?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
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posted
Christians live in this world. We do not all gather in a building and hide from the world.
So many people want to blame the Church for everything. Truth is Christians are the Church.
The Bible's first institution after marriage was the Church. There is a purpose for your local Church body. Christians are taught and shepherd in the Church. Yes there are Churches were the truth is no longer taught, but to put all Churches in the same box is wrong. The Holy Spirit still works in Churches today. There are still Pastors who have the guts to speak the truth.
Lost people do go to Churches. Lost people do get saved in Churches, today.
Let us pray for Pastors who are still wiling to speak the truth.
Churches not only work in their own community but they do work all over the world. My Church this week bought $5,000 worth of proclaimers to provide the spoken New Testament for villages in Africa that have no written language and no Bible.
These cost $20.00 each. They run on battery, solar power, and wind up power. They will charge 2,000 times. On proclaimers is given to each village and people are being saved.
How did our Church do that? People giving sacrificially through the Church to spread the Gospel.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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becauseHElives
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posted
who Yahweh will recieve?
the difference between be a religious church goer and truly being born again believer .....
this is what Paul is conveying .....
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
The scriptures are very clear how serious Yahweh is to those that will be in His Eternal Kingdom...
because of the easy believism that the apostate church has dump upon people today there is no wonder we see people calling themselves Christians and no separation from the world.
Yahweh has a remnant that has not bowed its knee to Baal, they are few in number, they are serious about how they live in this present day.....
they are quick to respond when he Holy Spirit convicts them where they are in error....
Idols are not only of stone, mud, metal or stained glass. Customs and habits, social custom or practice that betrays one as an outsider and religious dogmas and a hundred other varieties of "idols" exist, and bowing down to these separates men and women from a Holy God.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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yahsway
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I guess for me, the field is the world, and since we are to be in the world and not of the world we as believers are a living testament of Yeshua.
The lost are on the outside of the church doors, well most of them anyways. Its up to us to be a witness for Yeshua, we cant leave everything up to the pastor.
Sheep beget sheep.
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Keeper
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Perhaps I failed to explain myself properly.
Sin is not an issue to handle casually. My point was that when a sinner joins in fellowship with a church our first mission is to explain the gospel to them. They already know what their sin is and you may never know what it was.
Fact is, it is not our business. The sin is between the person and the Lord. There are exceptions to that but I am talking basics here.
At my church we close our services every time we meet with an invitation to sinners. To say that I am wrong by saying I wish we had more sinners I just don't understand. Most Christians I know turned their life over to Jesus in a church environment. Where do we find these folks if not in a church? How many times have you or anyone you know gone outside the church to witness? I'm not suggesting that any of you have not witnessed, but where do most hear the gospel properly and were willing to listen?
Our church invites everyone to join us. We feel we have something to offer. Everyone is a sinner.
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oneinchrist
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Hi BecauseHelives,
My agreement with Keeper was mainly on the point that the church should have a heart for the lost. As far as the statement about "it should have more sinners" I agree in one sense but not in another. I agree in the sense that the church should welcome anyone who wishes to come in and hear the message, but I disagree in the sense of the church itself having a casual attitude towards sin.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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becauseHElives
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posted
first off promise keepers is just another arm of the apostate church deceiving people into the clutches of Satan.... (i think that's what WildB was referring to!)
quote:
yahsway ... Christians are suppose to BE the Church!
Amen....Christians (the Church) are to be salt and light in the evil world...
salt preserves....
light brings clarity, illumination, light exposes things that try to hide....
quote:
Keeper and oneinchrist ....Quite frankly, I wish that our church had more sinners in it.
you are oh so wrong.....i understand what you are saying but the church does not need more sinners.....the church needs people that are truly saved.....
sheep beget sheep in the field not in the barn (every once in a while a sheep may be conceived in the barn but this is less natural.....
it is not the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers that are to bring sheep into the fold.....their responsibility is For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Ephesians 4:12
Christianity has become a spectator sport...pay your sport.....
buy your ticket (pay your tithe)
come on Sunday and watch the game, (Wednesday if you really enjoy the game)
the church is intended for born again believer that have separated themselves from the world (those that have come out from among them "the lost")
quote:
Eden ... what then IS meant by a "lukewarm church"?
The seventh and final letter was written to the believers at Laodicea. Laodicea was located 45 miles southeast of Philadelphia and approximately 90 miles east of Ephesus. It was a city of great wealth and in the midst of it all was “The Lukewarm church”, the church of materialism, the church of great lack.
The believers of this church were self-absorbed and self-satisfied, whose focus was on their outward riches while the inward remained impoverished. This church assumed having wealth meant they had need of nothing else. They identified riches as being righteous, wealth as holiness, and having a great abundance of “material gain” as special favor from The Lord. While outwardly they were possessors of much, inwardly where true wealth really mattered, they were spiritually poor. This church received no commendation from the Lord, only criticism and instruction. They were apparently more spiritually decayed than the others for they were they only church the Lord declared he would “spew” out of his mouth for they were neither a church that was hot, nor a church that was cold, but merely lukewarm and being lukewarm made the works of this church virtually worthless. They lacked genuineness and a desire for SPIRITUAL growth believing their great wealth was sufficient. Yet, despite their wickedness of heart, the Lord because of his unfailing love, still offers them opportunity to repent and become zealous for Him. His desire for true intimacy and fellowship is noted in his words to them: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
Most have thought this scripture passage referred to the Lord knocking on the heart of an UNBELIEVER, but it is clear that he is seeking entrance into the heart of one who has PROFESSED to BELIEVE and has left their first love.
The church at Laodicea, “The Lukewarm church” is the church of THIS DAY! For there are many professing believers who seek MORE to be “Materially” blessed, than “Spiritually” blessed. Seeking MORE of outward wealth, rather than inward and there are MORE sermons preached on how one can obtain material prosperity, and so very little preached on inward spiritual growth. More on how one can received “tangible” gifts from The Lord, and so very little preached on intimate fellowship and genuine worship of the Lord.
More preaching done on the subject of “giving to get”, and so very little spoken about simple giving from the heart out OF LOVE! So very little preached on the GREATEST commandment to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, all our soul and all our mind, AND to love our neighbor as ourselves.
There is more focus on the outward shell of a man, and little or NO focus at all on the inward. There is condemnation against the poor, and commendation towards the outward rich. Righteousness, and closeness to the Lord in this day is judged in the church by how much one possess and just as the world place such high esteem on the rich and forsake the poor, SO IT IS THE SAME in the church despite the fact the word of God tells us not to esteem one above the other.
For if a man possessed great wealth in the church, such a one is labeled by many within as being righteous, holy, highly favored of the Lord for they view material wealth as being greatly blessed of the Lord based upon one’s supposed righteous relationship with The Lord. If he is outwardly wealthy, he must be doing the right things in the sight of the Lord for the Lord has poured much blessings upon him. This man is treated with great respect by those of the church, and such hovers about him hoping they to would receive the “Favor from God” and tap into his well of wealth.
However, if one is poor, possessing no wealth that could be seen by the “natural eye”, such a person is labeled by many as being condemned of the Lord, having no favor from God, and must be doing evil in his eyesight. He is treated more like an outcast, shunned by his own brothers and sisters as they foolishly believe, based upon his “lack of riches”, that he has nothing of VALUE to offer. Yet, they cannot see that it is indeed this poor man that truly possess the greatest wealth for all of his riches are WITHIN and the wealth he possess is eternal, while the one who possess the tangible wealth will someday fade away! For a man/woman who has indeed found true intimacy and fellowship with The Lord, had obtained GREAT WEALTH!
“Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man’s life consisteth NOT in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.” (Luke 12:15)
Beware that you do not become part of “The Lukewarm church”, for this is a church of materialism that values MORE things that are tangible, than the things that are Spiritual. Our focus MUST be on that of spiritual growth, and drawing NIGH unto our Father in total surrender that we may become SONS and DAUGHTERS of the Most High, having the title of “children” no more!
Let not your heart seek diligently for the things of this world, but SEEK FIRST the kingdom of God and His Righteousness, and ALL those things then shall be added unto you! If you desire “great wealth”, desire it for the sake of distributing to the poor and blessing the saints abroad and those in your midst that NONE SUFFER LACK, but ALL should have sufficient.
Get into the habit of caring for one another, of LOVING one another, for if the Lord gives great wealth, it is given for the purpose of being in a position to BLESS another, and not for selfish purposes. For if one misuse what is given, he will soon have it no more!
Pray to be a blessing to someone and not always to be blessed, this IS the heart of the Lord!
Remember always that one can be outwardly rich, and yet spiritually bankrupt!
The lukewarm church is a church that is puffed up and consumed with arrogance and pride due to their abundance. They foolishly believe their great wealth places them in a position of needing nothing more, yet because of their spiritual blindness, they cannot see how poor and wretched they truly are. This is the church the Lord will spew out of his mouth. Because they are “self-satisfied” believers, they will be rejected from his presence. Be not of “The Lukewarm Church”.
come out from among them
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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hello, whisper. You wrote quote:
We will stand before the Lord and have to give an account of our lives,so we had better be differant then the world , rev. talks about Him spitting out the luke warm church.
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Some have this sin, some have that sin, some have temper problems, some have...it does not really matter because otherwise there would have been no point in Jesus dying for us. Sin is sin and we need to confess to God, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner".
Any confession more than that is foolishness. However, now that we are saved by BELIEVING that Jesus DIED IN MY PLACE does not mean that I can now go out and SIN EXTRA MORE because "I am saved anyway".
But who in his right mind would now go "sin more than ever before now that I'm saved"? The whole concept is practically nonsense. The odds are that, now that we as Christians, have "access" to the Holy Spirit's counsel again, that we will still be "one of two optometristical options", namely that we are "about the same" or "a little better", but "not much more better"; that is, not until the glorified body comes when "we shall be like Him". But before that, heaven forbid, even among "50% of the Christians" in any given sin, for we are "sinners saved by grace":
Titus 3:5
Not by WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which WE have done, but [only] according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.
The problem with many Christians is that they KNOW that God "does not want their BAD parts", but they DO NOT KNOW that God "also does not want their SO-CALLED GOOD parts", so with their supposed "good" parts they "set out to PLEASE God with what they think are "works of righteousness" eventhough God has said that "in us dwells NO GOOD THING".
And as soon as a Christian gets that thru his bonehead, then the Christian finally gives up, and then the Christian finally "comes to rest" now that he has "finally ceased from his own works":
Hebrews 4:10
For he who is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
But, to repeat what you wrote, whisper quote:
We will stand before the Lord and have to give an account of our lives,so we had better be differant then the world , rev. talks about Him spitting out the luke warm church.
So at this point I have a question. If our works of righteousness that we try to do cannot save us, what then IS meant by a "lukewarm church"?
Revelation 3:16
So then because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth.
Neither cold nor hot, about what, whisper? About belief? Or about behavior?
with love, Eden of Chilmad who was of course never in Eden
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Keeper
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You are correct. We are not to make a habit of being around persons who are suffering and lost.
Birds of a feather, flock together. However, the gospel is what we are to share. If a person is suffering from addiction to porn, drugs, drink, sex, etc I can't help but believe that they know it. They may try to convince others that they are not concerned but that is a lie.
We are often at a loss to know who these people are because they manage to hide their problem so well. Why would they hide it if they thought it was not a problem ? We seldom reach out to a person with these problems if they do not make themselves available to speak to. When we do get the opportunity to speak to one, we must not forget that the problem is not the sin. The sin is the exposure, to the fact that they do not know Jesus the way they should.
I can't help but believe that if a person is attending a church, they are aware of the need for help but lack the strength to go for it. We are so willing to talk about the false Christian.
It probably didn't start off that way. The love was there and they were told they were doing right. Unfortunately, they don't really find out what it was all about until some time later when being tested or some misfortune came their way. When that happens, and if they have not been in the word, it is no telling what will take place. Who do they turn to ? Have we been glorifying the Lord as we should ? Would that person come to us for guidance ? Some would go directly to the pastor and report them as porn addicts and want them thrown out of the church.
What would Jesus do? If you don't know what to do then take them to someone you know can help.
If that person is attending church we have a much better chance of showing them the light. The same applies on boards such as this. I am not sure but I would guess that you can find porn much easier than Christian study groups like this.
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yahsway
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posted
The post by whisper says that these 50% of men are IN the church (GO to Church), so apparantly the church is failing miserably in the area of helping those with sex addictions. Is this what the Church of Christ is suppose to look/act like?
The ecklessia are "the called out ones" meaning to be called out from among the world and to live differently. But sadly the church looks more like the world everyday.
Yes the church should have a heart for the lost, but those attending the promise keepers meeting heard that 50% of the sex addicts are professing christians, the Church not the "lost". You cant have the blind leading the blind or they both will fall in a ditch.
Maybe accountability would help in this area. Of course first and foremost being accountable to God, next thier wives, and also having a man at church to be accountable to when those types of desires raise their ugly head.
Of course sex addiction is a matter of the heart, Yeshua said that those who even look upon another with lust have committed adultry.
What was so telling to me about the article is that 50% of men IN the Church are sex addicts. This means that there are probably elders, deacons, and pastors who fall into this category, not just the ones sitting out in the pews.
And thats not far reaching as we have seen it with ones such as Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker, Paul Cain, Ray Boltz, ect...
The mega churches of today do not preach on sin, repentance ect.. And most of the time the only deliverence message they preach is one of being delivered from monetary poverity (Prosperity gospel).
I think for fear of losing congregants, some pastors just preach what the people want to hear.
In 1 Corinthians 5 Paul speaks of how immorality defiles the Church. But i find this part most interesting, Paul says:
"I wrote to you in my letter not to keep company with sexual immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexual immoral people of this WORLD, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you WOULD NEED TO GO OUT OF THE WORLD.
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone NAMED A BROTHER, who is sexually immoral ect... not even to eat with such a person. For what have i to do with judging those
also who are outside? DO YOU NOT JUDGE THOSE WHO ARE INSIDE? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person"
"Outside" means the world, the lost. "Inside" means those in the Church, the redeemed.
I only pray that those with this addiction would find a mentor, a brother/sister to be accountable to. But most of all they need the Lord, for He can make all things new in their lives.
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oneinchrist
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posted
I agree Keeper..........the church is supposed to have a heart for the lost and a hope that the "addicted to's" will turn to the Lord for help. Amen
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Keeper
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posted
Quite frankly, I wish that our church had more sinners in it. After all, isn't that what we are there for ?
It is a known fact now that porn is addictive. Those poor souls who have such addictions need help and we know just the one to introduce them to. It is not our job to tell them of their addiction because they are well aware of what is controlling them. Every one of us have had sin in our lives and still do. The important thing is to discover that there is a way out and tell about it. Who told you ? Addictions and sin are brought on by a person having needs who have chosen the wrong solution. Church is an excellent place to tell a lost person how you found the answer. Everybody needs some lovin.
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Betty Louise
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posted
whisper,
I did not understand WildB's post either. You are right. We should pray for our brother's sisters in Christ who suffer from addiction.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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whisper
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posted
copper 25 ,these men at this conferance were Christians but they were asking for prayer for there addiction to porn. They wanted to be delivered. Also wild B I dont understand your post.
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yahsway
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posted
Amen cooper25, Christians are suppose to BE the Church!
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Copper25
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posted
Well I will say this, just because people go to a church, does not mean that they are Christian, or for that matter in the Church or body of Christ.
Matthew 7:18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
What type of tree are these type of people who are stuck in the lustful world of immorality? What type of fruit are they bearing?
I tell you truly, that many go to church, but are not necessarily part of the Church of Christ nor for that matter a Christian.
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
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WildB
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posted
Sorry , I only take orders from my Lord. I Will maintain a front on the enemy lines.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
whisper, he said it right. Not only 50% of men but 38% of the women in the church according to the Barna Group.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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whisper
Community Member
Member # 7616
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posted
I went to a promise keepers conferance in ottawa this past weekend where the guest speaker was an authority on sexual addictions.He has written numerous books and is currently a counselar in high demand. Doug Weis, He told the 700 men there that 50 percent of the men in the chruch are addicted to porn or heavily ingaged in it. You take this with the divorce rate in the church and the other sins that christians are engaged in and we are starting to look a lot like the world. We will stand before the Lord and have to give an account of our lives,so we had better be differant then the world , rev. talks about Him spitting out the luke warm church.
Posts: 12 | From: canada | Registered: Feb 2009
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