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Author Topic: Why change?
bluefrog
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Thank You Michael. That is the first kind thing you have said to me in a long time.

It is nice to know that someone thinks that the devil is concerned about me. However, he is not my plural drill instructor and you are sadly mistaken if you think I listen to his commands.

I know you didn't mean anything good about what you said but it could be taken that way which is common due to lack of clarity.

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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Welllllll, being a drill instructor and just myself I almost was perfect but .......LOL and LOL! The Lord is not alone on that, because I can think of no one who doesn't want me to be perfect, and some tell me so. All married people get told that for sure. In my case I surely have been told that at least once a day so that comes to about 18,980 times. Haven't made it yet but Lord, don't give up on me. I'm glad He has a sence of humor.
The devil is your drill instructor (plural). It is he who lays into you, and tells you where you come up short. You can silence him by hiding in Christ. He cannot fault Christ. But where 'you' stand out, that is fair game for belzeebub.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
IV. Application
a. Do you have a part to play in cooperating with the Holy Spirit toward the goal of your own process of maturing?

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

And evil thinks it will 'help' the Holy Spirit in the process of one's maturing.

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bluefrog
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Yes, I was asleep. Ole' silver tongue came on TV so I gave up.

Thanks for your input. The Lord want's us to be perfect and believe me that is the answer to the subject here of "Why Change".

Welllllll, being a drill instructor and just myself I almost was perfect but .......LOL and LOL! The Lord is not alone on that, because I can think of no one who doesn't want me to be perfect, and some tell me so. All married people get told that for sure. In my case I surely have been told that at least once a day so that comes to about 18,980 times. Haven't made it yet but Lord, don't give up on me. I'm glad He has a sence of humor.

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Found in Him
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Lesson 25 (teacher--?)
Perfect In Christ Jesus

Col 1:28-29 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.KJV

I. Paul Warns
a. The Greek word for warning used here means to put in mind; to admonish; to exhort.

b. Paul’s admonition to the hearers was that they should attend to the doctrinal instruction which he provided.

c. This "warning" refers to conduct and leads to repentance, warning is addressed to the heart. Prov 4:1-9;

d. Warning fellow believers is a responsibility we all bear because it opens the eyes of the heart to recognize an existing or potential problem, and makes restoration possible. Gal 6:1

e. Unless and until one recognizes a problem, one is powerless to do anything about it. Prov 5:1-8; 7:21-28
What are some examples of how the scripture warns us? When we see in the pages of scripture that we have a sin nature we are being warned.

f. When we warn people of what they do amiss, we must teach them what to do in place of those things that are error. Warning and teaching must go together. Col3:8-9

g. Exhortation and warning are of little use where there is not sound instruction and a careful inculcation of the truth. Prov 2:1-7

h. For example, warning of a problem does little to help one avoid falling into the pitfalls and traps of life in flesh until one is taught to distinguish between spirit and the flesh. Gal 5:17

II. Paul Teaches
a. "Teaching" strengthens faith, refers to doctrine, and is addressed to the spirit. 1 Cor 2:4-12

b. It is when we have knowledge that we are empowered in our spirit with the ability to choose. Ps 25:12-14

c. Men must be warned and taught in all wisdom. Col 1:9; Prov 1:20, 23; Rom 12:1-2

d. Understanding (application) of this wisdom is found primarily by the activity of ruminating on the word of God. Ps 119:99

e. As the word of God is taught by men, the Holy Spirit works in hearts to illuminate, correct and train those whom the Lord seeks to influence. 2 Tim 3:16
III The Goal of “Perfection”

a. That which Paul aimed at was to present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

b. This means mature/ complete in the transforming knowledge of Christ and the Christian doctrine. Phil 3:8-15; Eph 3:17-19; 2 Tim 3:17

c. There are two purposes behind this transformation: Temporal and Eternal

1. Temporal: To cause the individual believer to be utterly sold out and committed to Christ in all things and at all times. Gal 2:20; Col 3:1-2

2. Eternal: To bring glory to Christ when he presents to himself a glorious church through the spirits of just men made perfect. Eph 5:27; Heb 12:23.

d. Paul’s labor, striving and hardship were enabled by the surpassing power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Eph 3:7

IV. Application
a. Do you have a part to play in cooperating with the Holy Spirit toward the goal of your own process of maturing?

b. If so, what can you do?

Are you [zzzzzz] bluefrog?

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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bluefrog
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PERFECTION...Just what does it mean when this word is used in the bible ?

The best I can find out is that it means Wholeness and completeness. A word used to describe any plant, animal or person emphasizing the achievement level of maturity or morality expected, given the nature of it.

In Greek "teleios" applies to people in the NT times. Means to be fulfilled , mature or fully equipped for a task.

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

We can hope and pray for perfection. And we can hope and pray that we know what perfection is.

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Found in Him
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You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Don't even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing out of the ordinary? Don't even the Gentiles do the same? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I guess we need to start with the verses leading up to what Jesus is saying about perfection then? He is talking about love. Who is perfect in loving? Loving their neighbor, enemies, President?

Are you?
None of us are perfect at this Michael. Only God is. Let Him have that glory!

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Michael Harrison
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We cannot love, except by Him. He loves. If we are crucified with Him, we are 'filled' with His love. In spite of how we are 'interpreted', HIS ability is our ability. Herein is our 'perfection'.
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Found in Him
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I thought of this verse...

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.


got2go2bed now [zzzzzz]

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Found in Him
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You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Don't even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing out of the ordinary? Don't even the Gentiles do the same? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I guess we need to start with the verses leading up to what Jesus is saying about perfection then? He is talking about love. Who is perfect in loving? Loving their neighbor, enemies, President?

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Michael Harrison
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He purchased dear (I hope you are dear), our perfection. Why am I the one who gets to say this? I am the sorriest, and most imperfect dudhead anyone could come up with. And maybe that is why. Because it is not my merit, but HIS power that accomplishes this. It is not even my great faith, as though I have a truckload. NO! HE says that faith as the grain of a mustard seed accomplishes this.

You see, who among us does not rationalize the word? Any why? It is because, if something doesn't fit our understanding, we have to come up with something that will meet our thinking in order to feel that we are somehow accepted, or in compliance. And our 'notion' of compliance is way below HIS concept. But we settle for it. But it is all that we can 'understand'. But our understanding, IS THE NATURAL MAN'S, OR CARNAL NATURE'S understanding. That of course means that we are not 'dead' as we suppose, and that we have to learn what it means, because the natural nature interferes with spiritual understanding.

Anyway, everyone says we are 'to do' what God commands. And everybody sets out 'doing' something, thinking he is obeying. But here is a command that is not only ignored, it is flatly refused. And if one cannot keep one, he cannot keep any, yet he feels he can pick and choose.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus said it. Michael didn't make it up. Neither does anybody bother with it because it is impossible. So it is case closed for 99.7 percent of believers. (And HE is coming for a 100 percent Holy Church.) But Jesus said it, and it is a command. So, why does no one who insists that God says to 'do' this, or to 'do' that, set out to 'do' it, selectively, and leave the ones he wants to ignore out of it? The way God sees it, we don't get to select.

But here is the punchline. HE who said "Be ye perfect," said also, "Let there be light." So who does the doing? Neither do we realize until we 'let' Him.

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Found in Him
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I also want to share something else. As I just typed that last script and walked into the other room a chorus of a song rose in my heart. When I was first saved in a little country church we use to sing a song. I don't know if you've ever heard this song or not but it speaks of The Father's view of us. He joys over His children and views us worthy of His love, investment, patience, Son and an everlasting kingdom of joy and peace. He looks at us with an indescribable love.

When He sees me, He sees The Blood of The Lamb
He sees me as worthy, And not as I am
He views me in garments as white as the snow
For The Lamb of God Is worthy, And He washed me this I know...

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Found in Him
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Michael,

We all examine ourselves before the Lord like the scripture tells us to do. Keep this in mind: The closer we get to a Holy God, the more flaws we will see in ourselves. That's a Given!

I think the point in the writers statement is that God is Holy. There is none, no one that can stand in His presence and NOT see their unworthiness.

There is great comfort in knowing that;
1. We are not and will not be perfect in this life--BUT we are accepted and loved. We examine ourselves and remain open to and in Him.
2. The "Perfect one" purchased our acceptance. That was and is sufficient to The Father...we remain in Him, examining ourselves always.

This builds a great relationship with Him.

It causes us to humble ourselves and praise Him.
That gives Jesus all the glory. He gave everything for us!
And that's the point.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Michael Harrison
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quote:
None of us will be saved because we are perfect or because anything we do earns God's approval. The peace of God and the mercy of God are free gifts purchased on Calvary for all who walk by this rule—the rule of Christ-exaltation, not self-exaltation. Right standing with God is not merited by works. It is given....
quote:
Peter Piper, who may or may not have picked a peck of pickled pepper!

STOP! STOP! Stop it there! That is good. That is a very good stopping point, where he says, "IT IS GIVEN."

It is given, bless God. But the point of the author overall was that the verse stated the qualifications which enable one to benefit the benefit, was not faith (which of course it is anyway) but to 'glory'. And that says it well if one understands the definition of the word as it is used here. And that would be, that '(to)glory', in its context here, means 'to receive'. For to 'glory' in the Cross is to receive the Christ. For it is the same, if compared, as to 'reckon' one's self DEAD unto sin, and alive unto God. (Rom 6:11) For then one is not who he was, but is the vehicle of Christ unto the edification of the church by his very receiving of Christ (but not to the rebellious). And one cannot 'receive' Christ as long as he is not dead unto sin. Indeed, he pushes Christ away, holding HIM at arm's length, though he may go through the motions, and the lip service, and pleading. And the only thing wrong with pleading is that it does not recognize what one already has. Therefore the absence of faith is what penalizes the one, keeping him from 'receiving'.

quote:


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Michael Harrison
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Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

But, "The effectual fervent prayer.... it availeth much." ?/? Does it now? Day after day a man or woman 'prays' a fervent prayer. Is it an 'effectual' fervent prayer? Indeed, how can it be? For they disregard that the prayer of a 'righteous' man, availeth much. But by the standard of some, there is no such thing as a righteous man. For if he looks in his heart and finds 'stuff' remaining, if he looks in the closets and lo and behold they are dark, he cannot fit the description of a righteous man. But that is as high as most believe that one can reach, since 'stuff' is remaining. Therefore, by their understanding, if it were a standard to judge by, this passage needn't be in scripture. Neither should there be a plethora of others.

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Michael Harrison
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It becomes more difficult when addressing one who thinks to himself that he is smart. And when such an one wants to post in order to see himself in print, he will not be apt, or inclined to wise instruction, for that is not what he is seeks. Can the Etheopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Indeed he cannot. But Christ can change his heart, sooner than that of one who is already convinced of his own wisdom. "For those who are well, need not a physician."
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Michael Harrison
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In response to another post I have this comment. But first the quote:
quote:
But it is precisely in the light that we see with greatest clarity the remaining evil of our own hearts.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

The passage reads, "whatsoever doth make manifest is light." In light of the quote above, and compared to the verse of Eph 5:13, it should be easily understood that the idea that the light 'maketh manifest', is such that one clearly knows 'what' to repent of. So the question begs, how far can one repent, since the writer seemes only to "see with greater clarity," remaining evil? The answer of course, is all of the way. And that is how far one 'is' to repent. Therefore no other lengthy explaination is needed, as one should, rather than 'explaining away' why he or she is still abiding in the darkness, unrepentant, he or she should 'repent', that the one should be "In the Light."

Remember, "If the eye is single, the whole body will be full of light. The 'eye' referenced here is the "heart." Therefore the passage reads that if the heart is single, and not double, the individual will be entirely enlightened. Of couse this is a reference to 'unbelief'. For unbelief is the sin that prevents us from realizing the full revelation of Christ our Lord, as HE is to us.

The author, in the case of the particular article which the opening quote is pulled from seems to ignore particular truth as recorded in scripture, such as:

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

For this passage says that if we meet the qualification HE has enabled us to meet, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin. "All" doesn't mean, everything except what is 'remaining'. It is a blanket statement.

It is not that one cannot sin in the next 'moment', but the indication is that one can "go all the way." And certainly he should 'stay' if he reaches that far. And he would want to. However, if one always believes that he or she can never reach that pinnacle, all that one will be able to do is to explain away what they don't understand, by using his or her own understanding (leaning to one's own understanding.)

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