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Topic: 3 Catholic errors in one short sentence
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bluefrog
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posted
EDEN..the scriptures above from Luke do not specifically say that Mary was a sinful person any more than she was born without sin. I just suggested that it Could mean it the other way.
Lets not get lost here....The brochure you found said "Mary was conceived without sin" right?
I suggested that it could mean what it said but in a different way. right? You said, no it doesn't mean that it means that she never sinned but that everyone sins. right?
The scriptures were saying that she was in favor to God just like Abraham, just like Christian brothers and sisters, you included. If Mary was predestined to be the mother of Jesus from the beginning then does that mean from the brochure that she was chosen as one who never sins? You are confusing the entire issue and I am sorry I brought it up.
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Eden
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posted
hello, bluefrog, you wrote to Eden quote:
You might want to reconsider the first error again.
Luke 1:28 and 30:
1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women.
1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
The first error said that "Mary was conceived without sin". Where in the above verses does it say that Mary was "conceived without sin"?
It only says that she was "highly favored" and "blessed among women", and well might the angel have added "eventhough you are a sinful woman descended from Adam and Eve, yet has the Lord chosen you to be blessed among women."
That's all that means. Mary is favored to carry the Son of God in her womb, eventhough she is descended from the sinful line of Adam and Eve.
Mark 14:69
And a maid saw him again and began to say to them who stood by, This is one of them. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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posted
Bluefrog wrote:..... Catholics TOOK AWAY and HID the bible.
Jesus got it back in the right hands though didn't He?
No one can put out that light no mater HOW HARD they may try, right?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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posted
EDEN...I forgot to mention something else about the statement concerning the catholics saying "Mary was conceived without sin."
Do you think that it could mean just that ?
She had already conceived, she wasn't married, it wasn't done illegaly or any other sinful way.
Maybe in her life up to that time she did sin, who knows ? But I don't think that is what without sin means. Another thing to ponder is that she was of the line of David and it was already predestined that she would be the mother of the savior.
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yahsway
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posted
Interesting kjw47, you make a good point.
In Rev 17:5 we read:
And on her forehead a name was written:
Mystery, Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots, and of the abominations of the earth.
The Mother of Harlots is Babylon, a symbolic picture of Rome, a type of Every idolatrous system opposed to Christ.
Sounds like the Roman Catholic Church to me.
She is referred to as the "Mother of Harlots"
At the time John wrote this, the prostitutes in Rome were required to wear a label with their Names written on their foreheads.
I see this as the Many Denominations we have today as being the Harlots of the Mystery Babylonian Mother The Roman Catholic Church.
When we broke from Her, we indeed took some of her teachings and traditions with us and they can no doubt be found in almost every Protestant denomination there is today.
So yes you are correct, most denominations are "branches" off the Mother Church of Rome.
The 1st "Church" looked nothing like the church of Rome. In verse 4, the guady adornment of the woman suggests her wealth and Earthly glory. Abominations are idol worship and its defilements.
We are told in Jeremiah 16:19 that in the Last days :
"the Gentiles shall come from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit."
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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kjw47
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Member # 7230
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posted
Hi Friends, It can all be summed up like this--- The catholic church was first ( the tree trunk ) then a branch came off of the tree trunk, and another branch, then another branch, etc x 10,000. Thats a big choice as to whether we have chosen correctly in our choice in a religion. or did other wrong teachings and practices carry forth with each branch?
Posts: 48 | Registered: Jul 2008
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bluefrog
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posted
yahsway...I have a little more information about TAMMUZ.
It is a pagan nature deity as old as the third millennium B.C. It brought on mourning as a winter brought the death of the god, symbolized by dying vegetation and rejoicing as spring's renewal of plants and trees symbolized the god's return to life.
Ezekiel 8:14 Then He brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. Note: the rest of this chapter is interesting also. (sunrise service)
As for the cross...I have different feeling about it. Whatever the reason it has become a symbol, I still don't like it. To believers, we are told to take up our cross and follow Jesus.
Another figure of speech. It doesn't mean to actually haul a big ole' cross around or carry one around your neck. It doesn't mean to die for Him, or suffer physically. It means to become a disciple and share total submission to God's will.
I find it very difficult to see photos, films, paintings, etc of Christ on the Cross in any shape or form. Jesus also said to make no image of Him so what do we do...we make images of Him and hang them on the wall, put him on our jewelry. carve statues...oh well, you know......
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bluefrog
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posted
Someone here said that Catholicism CLAIMS to be a part of Christianity.
I CLAIM to be a frog, but I'm not really.
Catholics didn't PROTECT or PRESERVE the bible.
Catholics TOOK AWAY and HID the bible.
Catholics did NOT save the day for Christians.
Catholics killed us, tortured us, took over nations (Remember England) sent our ancestors to all sorts of other nations, and some of us ended up here. As for Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians...I don't think so, try CHRISTIANS.
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bluefrog
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posted
EDEN...SUBJECT: Three catholic errors in one short sentence.
You might want to reconsider the first error again.
Luke 1:28 and 30:
1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women.
1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
As for Mary showing up in an image, according to the bible and according to historical events, it is the work of the devil. Satan has caused some to believe that they actually saw and heard the voice of dead loved ones or others. Because Christians do not accept this they usually seek and find a pagan group that believes in such practices.
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Found in Him
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posted
The Difference Between Catholicism and Christianity
Question: What is the difference between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity?
Answer: Catholicism and Biblical Christianity are divergent religions. They are built on different foundations, and they propose different ways of salvation.
In principle, Christianity is built solely on the Holy Scriptures, the written Word of God. The Bible is our only infallible rule of faith, being sufficient to give us the sure knowledge of the Gospel for our salvation and holiness.
Roman Catholicism demands submission of the intellect and will to the doctrines taught by the Roman magisterium (the Pope and bishops). It is claimed that the Catholic Church derives its doctrines from the "sacred deposit" found in Scriptures and Sacred Tradition. However the faithful cannot verify these doctrines by referring to the original sources. The Scriptures are inaccessible because only the magisterium is able to establish the authentic meaning. Similarly the contents of Sacred Tradition can only be known through the magisterium. Roman Catholicism is mental and spiritual slavery to the Vatican.
As expected, since the foundations are different, so also are the edifices built upon them. Christianity stands on the Gospel of God's sovereign grace. In love, God predestines His chosen ones to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ, their sole mediator. The Son became man and gave His life as a ransom to secure their freedom from sin. Being dead in sin, they are completely unable to convert ourselves or merit God's favour. Therefore God graciously grants His people repentance and faith to turn to Him and trust in Christ Jesus for salvation. Believers are accepted in Christ, solely on the merit of His righteousness and blood, and not because of any goodness or human merit. God also resides in His people by the Holy Spirit, enabling them to obey and glorify the Father, and to guarantee their inheritance in heaven forever.
Rome's "gospel" is not good news at all. The Roman institution, calling itself "The Church", usurps Christ's mediatorial office, proclaiming herself as the "sacrament of salvation." The "Church" dispenses salvation to her faithful in small portions, starting at baptism and continuing throughout life. Forgiveness can only be obtained through the sacrament of penance. The benefits of Christ's sacrifice are accessible through the sacrifice of the Mass. Instead of teaching the faithful to rest in Christ by faith, Catholics are taught to perform religious works to "merit grace" and to do penance to make satisfaction. Even after death, Catholics remains dependent on the "Church" to relieve their suffering in Purgatory by masses and indulgences.
The Roman Catholic Church is a mighty obstacle to anyone seeking salvation, enslaving millions of people to a religious system and preventing them from coming directly to Christ.
The choice is between the Bible and the Roman magisterium; the choice is between salvation by grace through faith in Christ, or through human merit and effort in the Roman religion.
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Matthew 16
13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "YOU ARE THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD."
17Jesus replied, "BLESSED are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this ROCK (foundation) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Christ Jesus- Our foundation- Our salvation- Head of THE ONLY CHURCH, HIS church! Revealed to us by Our Father!!!!!!
Can you sing with me?....
The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's the book for me. I stand alone, on the WORD of God, The B-I-B-L-E!
Is any other reader other than myself thankful for The Lord Jesus Christ that has been proclaimed and revealed through THE LIVING WORD OF GOD?????
PRAISE GOD!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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yahsway
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posted
Eden, the "sign" of the cross was around long before Yeshua, long before the "Catholic Church", it was always a Pagan symbol, the Babylonians, Romans, Egyptians, ect.. used the "sign" of the cross during their worship.
Constantine used the "Labarum" Cross and it was on one side of their coins and on the other side was the phrase "committed to the invincible Sun."
The images found of Tammuz, the Sun god, show him carrying his cross.
Remember in the book of Ezekiel, the women were weeping for Tammuz?
This same cross symbol is similar to the celestial cross and sword of Mithra and also the "Double Axe" of Zeus, both pagan symbols that pre-date Constantines Labarum.
At the time of Yeshuas death, the cross used by the Romans to crucify people on was their sacred symbol of their allegience to their gods.
Tertullian writes about the subject of the cross in his book, "Prescriptuion Against Heretics"
He indicates that the the initiates of Mithra, the sun god, recieved the same sign upon their foreheads that "Christians" of that time recieved.
That sign, over 100 years after the crucifixion of Christ, was the sign of the cross.
This was old pagan ways mixed in with Christianity by Constantine to win over the pagans and build an empire. It was all political.
The "symbol" of the cross did not originate at the time of Christ. It has been a symbol used by sun worshipers since the time of Babel.
We Christians, we must not worship the "Cross" but worship Him who was sacrificed for us on a cross.
The Protestants had for many years refrained from undue adoration of, or homage to, the cross, especially in England at the time of the Puritans in the 16th and 17th centuries.
The evidence od its (the cross) pagan origin is so convincing that "The Catholic Encyclopedia" admits that "the sign of the cross, represented in its simplest form by a crossing of 2 lines at right angles, greatly antedates, in both East and West, the introduction of Christianity."
It further states "It goes back to a very remote period of human civilization". It then continues and refers to the Tau cross of the pagan Egyptians,
"In later times the Egyptian Christians, attracted by its form (the ankh) and perhaps by its symbolism, adopted it as the emblem of the cross."
Further proof of its pagan origin is the recorded evidence of the Vestal Virgins of pagan Rome having the Cross hanging on a necklace, and the Egyptians doing it too, as early as the 15th century B.C.
The Buddhists, and numerous other sects of India, also used the sign of the cross as a mark on their followers heads.
Further stated in the Catholic Encyclopedia..
"The cross thus widely worshiped, or regarded as a 'sacred emblem', was the unequivocal symbol of Bacchus, the Babylonian Messiah, for he was represented with a head-band covered with crosses."
This was none other than Tammuz, whom the Greeks call Bacchus, with the crosses on his head-band. He is the one referred to in Ezekiel.
Ancient Egyptian Rot-n-no priests wore robes with crosses on them as well as necklaces hanging from their necks.
My point in all this is that we should not worship any "symbol" but worship Him that died on the cross.
The Catholic Church were NOT the 1st to introduce "cross worship", they only mixed it in with their religion to make it more palitable to the many pagans coming into the christian faith.
And its also the same with "Mary Worship". It was another "image" that they "Christianized".
The worship of mother and child is the re-incarnated sun-god, that has been one of the main components of sun worship since ancient times.
The child represented the re-born sun-god, husband of the mother. Thru the proclomation that Ninnus was actually Bel, Beltis became the mother of her husband, the sun god. That enabled her to claim the title "mother of god"- "queen of heaven"
There were no such depictions of the Biblical Mary and Christ by early believers. Later, however, as paganism began to corrupt the worship of God "in spirit and in truth", these representations began to be made.
Mary was given the title "Theotokos-Mother of God" and these icons began to be placed on the eatern wall of Churches. The eastern wall of pagan temples, toward the rising of the sun, is where they had always been depicted.
Examine now the quotes from Pope John Paul the 2nd in his book "Crossing the threshold of hope":
"... true devotion to the Mother of God is actually Christocentric, indeed, it is very profoundly rooted in the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity, and the mysteries of the Incarnation and Redemption...."
It continues:
"In regard to Marian devotion, each of us must understand that such devotion not only addresses a need of the heart, a sentimental inclination, but that it also corresponds to the objective truth about the Mother of God. Mary is the New Eve, placed by God in close relation to Christ, the New Adam,...."
Further states:
"The Mother of Christ the Redeemer is the Mother of the Church."
Okay, now consider this, the terms used by the Pope are the exact same terms employed by the mystery religions of antiquity to describe their sun gods and goddesses.
The "Mary" and "Jesus" of the Catholic Church have been declared in writing by the Pope to be the "New Eve" and the "New Adam".
Adam and Eve were husband and wife, therefore, the church has given its "Mary" and "Jesus" the same relationship.
The Mary of the Bible was not the wife of God. She is not her husbands mother as has always been the case in pagan sun worship.
TThe god and mother goddess having the before mentioned characteristics have nothing to do with the Mary and Jesus of the Bible. Their true identiy is found over and over again by many different names and titles in pagan sun worship of antiquity. This began in the time of Nimrod and is best represented by the name of his kingdom Babel:
"CONFUSION".
The worship of the God of the Bible is not a "mystery religion". The Catholic church has added their own man-made traditions that come straight from pagan worship. They worship "another Jesus"
May our worship be Biblicaly based and may we worship Him alone in Spirit and in Truth.
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Found in Him
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I am very thankful to The Lord for those who protected and continued to preach Jesus and Him crucified. For that is The power of God that has been proclaimed, the only Power able to deliver people from death, hell and the grave! The message of the gospel, The message of The King of Kings!
IF ANY speak of a different Jesus... They are NOT of HIS fold of sheep!
4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Food for thought: If God used a donkey to speak through (Numbers 22)... He could of most certainty have used a dog or a rock to preserve and declare His "Word"!
With everything giving thanks unto God...
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Amen, thank you, Whisper.
Eden
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Eden
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dear Found in Him, you wrote quote:
This whole catholic thing really makes me thankful for what we do have in Christianity.
Actually Catholicism IS a part of Christianity. Perhaps what you mean is that you are thankful for what we have in "Protestant" Christianity.
But prior to the Reformation of Martin Luther and others in the 1400s and 1500s, Catholic Christianity WAS the protector and bearer of the faith of Christianity since the 1st century A.D.
It was the Catholic side of Christianity that protected and preserved the Bible that we have today for us from the 1st century A.D. to the 15th and 16th century A.D.
And for that I am extremely tnankful to the Catholic side of Christianity. But there is no doubt that many areas have crept into Catholic Christianity which are not Biblical, such as the nonsense that "Mary was conceived without sin" or the nonsense that "Mary can intercede for us with her Son" or the nonsense that "wearing a medallion of Mary with devotion will bring the wearer special favors", these are all NON-Biblical doctrines that HAVE crept into Catholic Christianity.
And I am thankful for Protestant Christianity in its insistence that "doctrinal things should line up with what the Bible szys ONLY".
And lastly, and this will probably set off WildB's service weapons, but I just love the sign of the cross which probably started as a Christian sign sometime within the Catholic Christianity.
The sign of the cross was probably started by Christians as a way to identify themselves, both to men, and to both good and bad angels.
So overall, Catholic Christianity protected the Bible for us and without them we wouldn't have our Protestant Bible and Protestant Christianity which I love.
So to repeat what you wrote, Found in Him, you wrote quote:
This whole catholic thing really makes me thankful for what we do have in Christianity.
I am thankful for Catholic Christianity's contribution to Christianity, and I'm also very thankful for what we have in Protestant Christianity.
love, Eden
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whisper
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I am a former catholic and I recieved that letter a few years back and wrote them asking what they were talking about . I stated that only Jesus was sinless they responded with that this was not anywhere in scripture . They said that I could not respond anyway because only a priest could interput scripture they said mary was given her position beacuse of all her suffering. It was all nonsense but they would not back away from it.
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Found in Him
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When I read the letter you posted that the one popey Pope wrote, Honestly Bro Bluefrog it made me feel dirty and sick. When I think of the deception that their congregations sit under and practice, it grieves me and rips my heart.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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The bible also says the dead can hear nothing.
It says to pray to or worship no carven immages.
The teach that you can work your sins off by spending the appropriate amount of time in pergatory then go to heaven, that is if you didn't go to your priest and get forgiven.
If you are present in a Catholic church you may not participate in communion with them if not a member.
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Found in Him
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This whole catholic thing really makes me thankful for what we do have in Christianity. It breaks my heart because these people really are deceived. My mom spoke of a neighbor she had one time that she would try to discuss saving knowledge with her. Mom said, "It was as if it went in one ear and out the other." I'm just very thankful that I see Him for who He is. The Son of God, the only way. I wish they could see it...
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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And there are other errors on the pamphlet. The whole front text is nonsense and a lie.
"All who carry this medal will receive great favors ... favors will abound if it is worn with devotion." (November 27, 1830)
"On that glorious day, the Blessed Virgin appeared in a vision. At one point during the apparition, the Virgin Mary stood on a globe with a serpent beneath her feet."
Wow, that last part is amazing. It reminded me of bluefrog's Topic on the serpent, and in this case, this "apparition" or the "Virgin Mary" "stood on a globe with a serpent underneath". Have you ever seen a more appropriate representation of the coat of arms that Lucifer might fance for his kingdom here on earth?
Eden
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Eden
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When I was out and about today, I found a Catholic card which had a medallion of Mary in it and some text, and the first words that I read were already fanciful:
"O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you."
Error 1: "Mary was conceived without sin".
Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us. There have been only 3 sinless people on earth and they are Adam and Eve before they fell, and Jesus of Nazareth.
Error 2: Mary ... pray for us. Mary is dead and cannot pray for us. We who are alive can only pray for ourselves while we are still alive and we can also pray for others who are still alive. But the dead cannot pray for us.
Mary is just as dead as King David is dead. But we CAN pray to Jesus because Jesus is resurrected.
Error 3: "for us who have recourse to you".
We don't have any recourse to Mary. Mary is dead and in the grave. She is a sinner who needs to be saved by the blood of Jesus, just like the rest of us. Mary is dead. We have NO recourse to her.
love, Eden
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