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Author
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Topic: Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
quote:
Dead men can't sin but they can't work for the Kingdom of God, either.
Sweetie! (Can I call you that? It isn't my style, but it works in this post.) This shows that you do not yet understand.
Mar 8:18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
Mar 8:17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
When you got saved, who you were died according to the working of the Cross. However, the dead do not realize that they are dead till something comes along and pulls the rug out from under them. Therefore the Christian exists in a condition of being dead, because the work of the Cross effectively accomplished it, without his comprehending it in a practical way. That way is comprehended when he or she realizes that Jesus lives, not them. Therefore, his behavior (conversations in the KJV) is from the well-spring of living water, who the Holy Spirit is, as though Jesus Himself were there instead of you. That is what it means to be 'dead'. Who you were is dead. But the new creature is 'alive'.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This verse means that the 'old man' has passed away. However, it is not effectively true (without repentance) if the 'old man' still stands. This actually occurs because of unbelief. For if one truly realizes he is dead, then only the "what would Jesus do" would survive. But one does not 'recognize' the unbelief in himself. As a result, the dead man continues as it is written, "the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, so that you cannot do what you would (what the old man would do if he could)."
eden, I have not aught against any of the brethren, except the man who threw me into jail and labeled me for the rest of my natural life as a theif, to the rejoicing of thugs who call themselves po-lice, who would crucify me if they could find opportunity. He needs to learn the scriptures, and repent. My bible says "if any man is angry with his brother 'without reason'."
He owns the property that used to be the old PTL, if anyone wants to send him a note repremanding him. Caution, according to the local papers there, he is a hothead.
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Eden
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Betty Louise wrote quote:
Dead men can't sin but they can't work for the Kingdom of God, either.
Greetings, sister Betty Louise. Well, not exactly. The idea is more that I, as my "old man" am dead inside of me, meaning that "I no longer do the deciding of what to do next" but Jesus by the Holy Spirit now tells me what I should do next.
I think the Bible puts that concept this way:
Hebrews 4:10
For he who is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
That is, as a Christian I realize that Jesus thru the Holy Spirit is much smarter than me, so I "get out of the way", as it were, and "let Jesus do all the thinking for me thru the Holy Spirit".
So to repeat now what you said quote:
Dead men can't sin but they can't work for the Kingdom of God, either.
When I or the "old thinking man" is dead (i.e., stops doing the thinking like a dead man"), then actually [b]much more work can be done for the kingdom because Jesus is doing it thru the Holy Spirit, so a lot more gets done than if I "came out of retirement" and tried to do the thinking on behalf of God ... again.
love, Eden
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Eden
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Michael Harrison, I do want you to know that I appreciate you participating on this bbs, even when we are at loggerheads with each other, which is often for some reason. Either you are a "slippery somebody" or "I am a slippery somebody", or "we both are" but I haven't figured it out yet. In any case, be blessed in Jesus, okay? Thanks for participating.
Eden
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Betty Louise
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Dead men can't sin but they can't work for the Kingdom of God, either.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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slap a dead man, guaranteed he or she will not slap back....
Inwardly renewed day by day! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Found in Him
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Well, All I know is that He is My Lord, He walks beside me, He does not lead me into temptation--but delivers me from evil. He keeps me and has transformed me and is still transforming me. I'm a work in progress. I am dead to my old way of life and very much alive in this newness with Him.
I don't claim to know it all-- I strive to know Him (Jesus) better with each passing day! He's my best friend, my teacher, my comfort, my all in all.
As far as fellow Christians here on the board-- I think it's safe to say that we are standing on level ground at the foot of the cross, right Michael?
Let's try to remember that each one of us here are valued in the eyes of God, ok? I'm speaking to myself as well. We must speak to one another in a way that is pleasing to the Lord, right?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Michael Harrison
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posted
quote:
No wait-- I don't think I want to be perfect, why would I have need of grace then?
I guess I'll just remain 'imperfect'.
I forgot to address this! It shows that you think of grace as being His 'overlooking' (as does everyone else). That would be like forgiveness. But does HE overlook? He does not; not when He empowers one 'not' to do anything to be overlooked. He clearly says that if you do something to be overlooked, you have sinned. If you have sinned, you have separated from Him. That is why there is the call to repent. And that is why it is a valid question to ask how far one can repent. For without complete repentance, one is "in the wilderness." Spiritually!
Well, it is a difficult subject to be clear about. You cannot 'do' anything to be perfect. If you could, then HE would not have needed to be a sacrifice for sin. And I'll say it again. You cannot 'do' anything whatsoever to be perfect. But if you are 'dead' then Jesus is your perfection. That means HE lives, not you. It is because HE lives through you, or HE is cast aside, trampled, removed off of the throne of your heart (though HE may be in a corner).
You as a believer are like a window to heaven. If however the window is closed, how will the breeze enter? Through what avenue will the breeze come? That is what it is like when one doesn't understand.
Do I believe in the 'finished' work? The very reason why you cannot 'do' anything to be perfect is because HE already has. It is what HE did and IS doing that is your perfection. That is why HE calls us to 'enter His rest'. It means to 'rest' in His finished work, and working. Therefore, once accomplished, to enter therein, "who" is doing the work? We or HE? For if we are doing it, we are following our own lusts. We are 'walking in the flesh', determining for Him. But we cannot add to what HE did. We can however, receive, if we will humble ourselves to the understanding.
The key is that it is what HE IS doing, not what you do. It is what you 'have' because HE IS doing, and without 'surrender' you do not 'have' this.
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Found in Him
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Michael,
If you scroll up I asked forgiveness for that! Can we be nice on this forum? I was asking you a question about the work of the cross... Do you believe that is a finished work?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Michael Harrison
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The simplicity of the opening statement is that, if you are dead, then being free from sin, you do not respond 'sinfully' by obeying the lusts of your old nature. Else you are not dead! You are kidding yourself.
To be dead is to be free. To be free is not to minister anything less than Jesus! So when people start judging whether one is ministering Jesus, he or she comes under judgment. If he or she is not wrong, well.....
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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But for comparison, most believers are constantly living in a dead state. Literally! That means that he or she is not alive unto God, but to the old man who is supposed to be under the Cross. That means he or she is not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, but of the flesh, though he or she may be, "born again."
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Michael Harrison
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posted
quote:
If you are dead you can't move at all.
How's that suppose to work ne ways?
Or were you talking about being perfect again?
Are we going there again?
If you figure it out will you fill me in?
No wait-- I don't think I want to be perfect, why would I have need of grace then?
I guess I'll just remain 'imperfect'.
Do you still love me?
quote:
found
????
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
????
????
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif) If you are dead, you are not supposed to move at all, you said? Have you ever read the scriptures, 'found'?
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif) If you are dead, then who is supposed to respond to circumstances in your life? Your life is hid with Christ, in God according to scripture. But that doesn't make it your faith reality. If you are truly dead (by faith), you are alive in Christ. So then, what response comes from you when you are tested?
Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Ok, well.....
Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
This is elementary stuff! Does the ‘dead’ man respond, or does the living? Just because you are dead doesn’t mean that you are dead. You are dead according to the choice of your will, by faith, and only as you are willing, by faith. So in ‘light’ of these scriptures, do you spew saltwater, or fresh? Do you bear ‘bad’ fruit, of the fruit of the Spirit? In every response of yours in which you do not minister Jesus, the dead man comes to life!
1Ti 5:6 But she [or he] that liveth in pleasure is dead
while she liveth.
For who liveth, the old man who is supposedly crucified, or the new who is made alive by the quickening of the Spirit?
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith 'of' the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
More scriptures, "Examine yourselves to see if ye be in the faith."
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
The good man is he who abides in Christ and ministers Him by His Spirit. The evil man is he who reveals that he is not 'dead' whenever the circumstance tries him.
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Found in Him
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quote:
Tell you what I mean by dead? I told you what Jesus says about it. Do you expect me to play God? Even God has this condition, even now, and that is that a man 'believe', if he would receive. If your eye is single, your body 'will' be full of light. Look not to another for what 'you' must do.
Michael,
The single work of the cross provided us with all the necessary equipment we need to do EVERYTHING we need to do in life as a Christian. That includes provisions for living holy, unspotted from the world, and for remaining separate from the world and having the strength to overcome any obstacle that threatens our Christianity. We are made children of God through the work of the cross! The cross allowed us to come to God and experience new birth! And since we are children of God, we have the ability to see God's will accomplished in our lives. But it is all because of the work of the cross.
Do you agree?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Michael Harrison
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It is amazing how far people will go to avoid looking directly at themsleves in light of a scripture, or look directly at a scripture!
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Michael Harrison
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posted
quote:
slap a dead man, guaranteed he or she will not slap back....
quote:
becausehelives
Best answer by far. One thing to note though, the dead man will not slap back, but the living one may respond! That would be out of Jesus. That however is different from reacting. The dead man, if not dead, will react. That will be out of the lusts of his flesh, and not out of the will of God.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Well, perhaps you don't mind, since you started this Topic, are YOU dead when you are tested? Would you mind starting with answering THAT question first, and then I'll tell you whether I am dead or not:
Luke 20
3 And He {Jesus} said to them, I will also ask you one thing; answer me:
7 And they answered, that they could not tell from where it was.
8 Then Jesus said to them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
quote:
sed edne
Totally invalid, but nice try! There is no relation.
Tell you what I mean by dead? I told you what Jesus says about it. Do you expect me to play God? Even God has this condition, even now, and that is that a man 'believe', if he would receive. If your eye is single, your body 'will' be full of light. Look not to another for what 'you' must do.
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Found in Him
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quote:
I was not individually "slapping" at Michael but I was trying to bring to this conversation the fact that in dealing with the new birth, the believer must on a day by day basis deal with the old man.
Sorry if I offended you by my ding dong sense of humor in the above box! That was rude-- Sorry!
Do you still love me?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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posted
quote:
We die daily to sin and what has been buried with Christ or in Christ must stay buried. (For in the flesh dwelleth no good thing.)
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Inwardly renewed day by day!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Glory belongs to Him
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Amen! becauseHElives, we do die on a daily basic from sin for this is a on going process. We do not die totally from sin all at once. (Unless we die physically at the time we become save and receive the Holy Spirit). Other than that it's an on going process until we go home to be with the Lord.
We have been crucified with Christ through water baptisim but what has been crucified must be eventually mortified. We die daily to sin and what has been buried with Christ or in Christ must stay buried. (For in the flesh dwelleth no good thing.)
Dying daily only means the outward man is being brought unto submission not to sin or live in it.
While the inward spirit or new creature is renewed day by day living and having the mind of Christ Jesus.
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If you ever get so hungry for God that you are in pursuit of Him, He will do things for you that He won't do for anybody else.
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becauseHElives
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I was not individually "slapping" at Michael but I was trying to bring to this conversation the fact that in dealing with the new birth, the believer must on a day by day basis deal with the old man.
Yahshua said take up your cross daily.....
to me, I have found after 35 years of walking with Yahshua as my Savior and friend that the people whom I consider the most spiritual are the lest likely to point out others problems.
The more a spiritual person understands about how far he or she is from perfection and the more merciful and compassionate they are toward those who are struggling with stuff in their lives dealing with the day by day battles between the flesh and spirit / new birth and old man.
the struggle is only over when this clay house is in a grave and our soul and spirit are in eternity
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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becauseHElives wrote quote:
slap a dead man, guaranteed he or she will not slap back....
Good one. I think becauseHElives meant that since Michael Harrison still "slaps back", he can't be dead.
As Watchman Nee once said, "when temptation comes, we furiously begin to reckon ourselves dead, "I'm dead, I'm dead, I'm dead", only to find that something within is still very much alive, and I'm not talking about the Holy Spirit.
Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! WHO...shall deliver me from this body of sin???
Thanks be to God: Jesus Christ!
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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If you are dead you can't move at all.
How's that suppose to work ne ways?
Or were you talking about being perfect again?
Are we going there again?
If you figure it out will you fill me in?
No wait-- I don't think I want to be perfect, why would I have need of grace then?
I guess I'll just remain 'imperfect'.
Do you still love me?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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becauseHElives
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slap a dead man, guaranteed he or she will not slap back....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote quote:
Are you dead? Here is a test! It is total qualificaton in one single short sentence. Rom 6:7 "For he that is dead is freed from sin." Is forgiveness - 'freedom' from sin? So, when you are 'tested' are you dead?
Well, perhaps you don't mind, since you started this Topic, are YOU dead when you are tested? Would you mind starting with answering THAT question first, and then I'll tell you whether I am dead or not:
Luke 20
3 And He {Jesus} said to them, I will also ask you one thing; answer me:
7 And they answered, that they could not tell from where it was.
8 Then Jesus said to them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
So MH, you wrote quote:
Are you dead? Here is a test! It is total qualificaton in one single short sentence. Rom 6:7 "For he that is dead is freed from sin." Is forgiveness - 'freedom' from sin? So, when you are 'tested' are you dead?
When YOU are tested, are YOU dead, and if you say you are DEAD, can you describe this "deadness" for me?
thanks, Eden
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.
Paul does not mean that any failure of the flesh due to weakness is ok! He is nowhere near that - at all.
He that knows what it means to be dead, that is to be under the Cross, and not alive to the flesh, is free from sin. Anything less would not be being free So one knows he is dead if he does not have to fulfill the lust which beseige him.
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Found in Him
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By Grace through faith seems to be the anthem.
2 Corinthians 12
but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.
7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Michael Harrison
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![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
Are you dead? Here is a test! It is total qualificaton in one single short sentence. Rom 6:7 "For he that is dead is freed from sin." Is forgiveness - 'freedom' from sin? So, when you are 'tested' are you dead?
![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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