Home / Christian Website Hosting / Christian Domain Names / Christian Search Engine

Christian Message Boards


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Whooz pullin the Ox cart?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Whooz pullin the Ox cart?
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
BECAUSEHELIVES....Whew ! That was a pretty good work up to be done for a skimmer.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Come Unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." This is not a broadcast invitation, addressed indefinitely to the careless, giddy masses; rather is it a gracious call to those who seriously seek peace of heart, yet are still bowed down with a load of guilt. It is addressed to those who long for rest of soul, but who know not how it is to be obtained, nor where it is to be found. To such Christ says, "Come unto me, and I will give you rest." But He does not leave it there. He goes on to explain. Our Lord makes the bare affirmation that He is the giver of rest (Matthew 11:28). In what follows He specifies the terms on which He dispenses it, conditions which we must meet if we are to obtain it. The rest is freely "given," but only to those who comply with the revealed requirements of its Bestower.

"Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart; and ye shall find rest unto your souls"
(Matthew 11:29).

In those words Christ voiced the conditions which men must meet if they are to obtain rest of soul. We are required to take His yoke upon us. The yoke is a figure of subjection. The force of this figure may be understood if we contrast oxen running wild in the field with oxen harnessed to a plow, where their owner directs their energies. Hence we read, "It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth" (Lam. 3:27). That means unless youths are disciplined, brought under subjection and taught to obey their superiors, they are likely to develop into sons of Belial, intractable rebels against God and man. When the Lord took Ephraim in hand and chastised him, he bemoaned that he was like "a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke" (Jer. 31:18).

The natural man is born "like a wild *** ’s colt" (Job 11:12)—completely unmanageable, self-willed, determined to have his own way at all costs. Having lost his anchor by the fall, man is like a ship entirely at the mercy of winds and waves. His heart is unmoored and he runs wild to his own destruction. Thus he has a need for the yoke of Christ if he is to obtain rest for his soul. In its larger sense, the yoke of Christ signifies complete dependence, unqualified obedience, unreserved submission to Him. The believer owes this to Christ both as his rightful Lord and his gracious Redeemer. Christ has a double claim upon him: he is the creature of His hands, and gave him being, with all his capacities and faculties. He has redeemed him and acquired an additional claim on him. The saints are the purchased property of another; therefore the Holy Spirit says, "Ye are not your own, for ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s (1 Cor. 6:19-20).

"Take my yoke upon you," by which Christ meant: surrender yourself to My Lordship, submit to My rule, let My will be yours. As Matthew Henry pointed out:

We are here invited to Christ as Prophet, Priest and King, to be saved, and in order to this, to be ruled and taught by Him. As the oxen are yoked in order to submit to their owner’s will and to work under his control, so those who would receive rest of soul from Christ are here called upon to yield to Him as their King. He died for His people that they should not henceforth live unto themselves, "but unto him which died for them, and rose again" (2 Cor. 5:15). Our holy Lord requires absolute submission and obedience in all things both in the inward life and the outward, even to "bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5). Alas that this is so little insisted upon in a day when the high claims of the Savior are whittled down in an attempt to render His Gospel more acceptable to the unregenerate.

It was different in the past, when those in the pulpit kept back nothing profitable for their hearers. God honored such faithful preaching by granting the anointing of His Spirit, so that the Word was applied in power. Take this sample:

No heart can truly open to Christ that is not made willing, upon due deliberation, to receive Him with His cross of sufferings and His yoke of obedience: "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me . . . Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me" (Matthew 16:24; 11:29). Any exception against either of these is an effectual barrier to union with Christ. He looks upon that soul as not worthy of Him that puts in such an exception: "he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me" (Matthew 10:38). If thou judgeth not Christ to be worthy all sufferings, all losses, all reproaches, He judges thee unworthy to bear the name of His disciple. So, for the duties of obedience—called His "yoke"—he that will not receive Christ’s yoke can neither receive His pardon nor any benefit by His blood (John Flavel, 1689).

"Take my yoke upon you." Note carefully that the yoke is not laid upon us by another, but one which we place upon ourselves. It is a definite act on the part of one who seeks rest from Christ, and without which His rest cannot be obtained. It is a specific act of mind, an act of conscious surrender to His authority, to be ruled only by Him. Saul took this yoke upon him when, convicted of his rebellion and conquered by a sense of the Savior’s compassion, he said, "Lord, what wouldest thou have me to do?" To take Christ’s yoke upon us signifies setting aside of our wills and completely submitting to His sovereignty, acknowledging His Lordship in a practical way. Christ demands something more than lip service from His followers, even a loving obedience to all His commands, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven . . . "whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock" (Matthew 7:21, 24).

"Take my yoke upon you." Our coming to Christ necessarily implies turning of our backs upon all that is opposed to Him. "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him" (Isa. 55:7). So taking His yoke presupposes our throwing off the yoke we had worn before, the yoke of sin and Satan, of self-will and self-pleasing. "O LORD our God, other lords besides thee have had dominion over us" confessed Israel of old (Isa. 26:13). Then they added, "but by thee only will we make mention of thy name." Thus taking Christ’s yoke upon us denotes a change of master, a conscious, cheerful change on our part. "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin . . . Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey: whether of sin unto death or of obedience unto righteousness" (Rom. 6:13, 16).

"Take my yoke upon you." It may sound much like a paradox—to bid those who labor and are heavy laden, who come to Christ for "rest," to take a "yoke" upon them. Yet, in reality it is far from the case. Instead of the yoke of Christ bringing its wearer into bondage, it introduces a real liberty, the only genuine liberty there is. The Lord Jesus said to those who believed in Him, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32). There must first be a "continuing in His Word," a constant walking in it. As we do this He makes good His promise, "and ye shall know the Truth": know it in an experimental way, know its power, and its blessedness. The consequence is, "the Truth shall make you free"—free from prejudice, from ignorance, from folly, from self-will, from the grievous bondage of Satan and the power of sin. Then the obedient disciple discovers that divine commandments are "the perfect law of liberty" (James 1:25). David said, "I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts" (Ps. 119:45).

By the yoke, two oxen were united together in the plow. The yoke then is a figure of practical union. This is clear from, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (2 Cor. 6:14). The Lord’s people are forbidden to enter into any intimate relationships with unbelievers, prohibited from marrying, forming business partnerships, or having any religious union with them. This yoke speaks of a union which results in a close communion. Christ invites those who come to Him for rest to enter into a practical union with Him so that they may enjoy fellowship together. So it was with Enoch, who "walked with God" (Gen. 5:24). But "Can two walk together except they be agreed?" (Amos 3:3). They cannot. They must be joined together in aim and unity of purpose, to glorify God.

"Take my yoke upon you." He does not ask us to wear something He has not worn. O the wonder of this! "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross" (Phil. 2:5-8). The One who was equal with God "made himself of no reputation." He, the Lord of glory, took upon Him "the form of a servant." The very Son of God was "made of a woman, made under the law" (Gal. 4:4). "Even Christ pleased not himself" (Rom. 15:3); "I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me" (John 6:38). This was the yoke to which He gladly submitted, complete subjection to the Father’s will, loving obedience to His commands. And here He says, "Take my yoke upon you." Do as I did, making God’s will yours. John Newton pointed out this is three-fold:

First, the yoke of His profession, putting on of the Christian uniform and owning the banner of our Commander. This is no irksome duty, rather is it a delight. Those who have tasted that the Lord is gracious are far from being ashamed of Him and of His Gospel. They want to tell all who will hear what God has done for their souls. It was true of Andrew and Philip (John 1:41, 43), and with the woman of Samaria (John 4:28-29). As someone has said, "Many young converts in the first warmth of their affection have more need of a bridle than of a spur in this concern." No Christian should ever be afraid to show his colors; nevertheless he should not flaunt them before those who detest them. We will not go far wrong if we heed, "Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" (1 Pet. 3:15). It is only when, like Peter, we follow Christ "afar off," that we are in danger of denying our discipleship.

Second, the yoke of His precepts.

These the gracious soul approves and delights in: but still we are renewed but in part. And when the commands of Christ stand in direct opposition to the will of man, or call upon us to sacrifice a right hand or a right eye; though the Lord will surely make those who depend upon Him victorious at the last, yet it will cost them a struggle; so that, when they are sensible how much they owe to His power working in them, and enabling them to overcome, they will, at the same time, have a lively conviction of their own weakness. Abraham believed in God, and delighted to obey, yet when he was commanded to sacrifice his only son, this was no easy trial of his sincerity and obedience; and all who are partakers of his faith are exposed to meet, sooner or later, with some call of duty little less contrary to the dictates of flesh and blood (John Newton).

Third, the yoke of His dispensations, His dealings with us in Providence. If we enjoy the favor of the Lord, it is certain that we will be out of favor with those who hate Him. He has plainly warned, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (John 15:19). It is useless to suppose that, by acting prudently and circumspectly, we can avoid this. "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution" (2 Tim. 3:12). It is only by unfaithfulness, by hiding our light under a bushel, by compromising the Truth, by attempting to serve two masters, that we can escape "the reproach of Christ." He was hated by the world and has called us to fellowship with His sufferings. This is part of the yoke He requires His disciples to bear. Moreover, "whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth." It is hard to bear the opposition of the world, but it is harder still to endure the rod of the Lord. The flesh is still in us and resists vigorously when our wills are crossed; nevertheless we are gradually taught to say with Christ, "the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?" (John 18:11).

"And learn of me: for I am meek and lowly in heart." Once again we call attention to the deep importance of observing our Lord’s order here. Just as there can be no taking of His yoke upon us until we "come" to Him, so there is no learning of Him (in the sense meant) until we have taken His yoke upon us—until we have surrendered our wills to His and submitted to His authority. This is far more than an intellectual learning of Christ, it is an experimental, effectual, transforming learning. By painstaking effort any man may acquire a theological knowledge of the person and doctrine of Christ. He may even obtain a clear concept of His meekness and lowliness; but that is vastly different from learning of Him in so as to be "changed into the same image from glory to glory" (2 Cor. 3:18). To "learn" of Him we must be completely subject to Him and in close communion with Him.

What is it that we most need to be taught of Him? How to do what will make us objects of admiration in the religious world? Or how to obtain such wisdom that we will be able to solve all mysteries? How to accomplish such great things that we will be given the preeminence among our brethren? No indeed, nothing resembling these, for "that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Luke 16:15). What, then, Lord? This: "Learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart." These are the graces we most need to cultivate, the fruits which the Husbandman most highly values. Of the former grace it is said, "even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which in the sight of God is of great price" (1 Pet. 3:4); of the latter the Lord declared, "I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit" (Isa. 57:15). Do we really believe these Scriptures?

"For I am meek." What is meekness? We may best discover the answer by observing the word in other verses. For example, "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth" (Num. 12:3). This refers to the gentleness of Moses’ spirit under unjust opposition. Instead of returning evil, he prayed for the healing of Miriam. So far from being weakness (as the world supposes), meekness is the strength of the man who can rule his own spirit under provocation, subduing his resentment of wrong, and refusing to retaliate. The "meek and quiet spirit" also has to do with the subjection of a wife to her husband (1 Pet. 3:1-6); her chaste conversation (or behavior) which is to be "coupled with fear" (v. 2); even as Sarah "obeyed Abraham, calling him lord" (v. 6). It is inseparably associated with gentleness: "the meekness and gentleness of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:1); "gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men" (Titus 3:2). The "spirit of meekness" is in sharp contrast from the apostle using "the rod" (1 Cor. 4:21).

Thus we may say that "meekness" is the opposite of self-will. It is pliability, yieldedness, offering no resistance, as clay in the Potter’s hands. When the Maker of heaven and earth exclaimed, "I am a worm, and no man" (Ps. 22:6), He referred not only to the unparalleled depths of shame into which He descended for our sakes, but also to His lowliness and submission to the Father’s will. A worm has no power of resistance, not even when it is stepped on. So there was nothing in the perfect Servant which opposed the will of God. Behold in Him the majesty of meekness, when He stood like a lamb before her shearers, committing Himself to the righteous Judge. Contrast Satan, who is represented as "the great red dragon"; while the Lamb stands as the symbol of the meekest and gentlest.

The meekness of Christ appeared in His readiness to become the covenant head of His people, and to assume our nature; in being subject to His parents during the days of His childhood; in submitting to the ordinance of baptism; in His entire subjection to the Father’s will. He made no retaliation; He counted not His life dear unto Himself, but freely laid it down for others. We most need to learn of Him not how to become great or self-important, but how to deny self, to become tractable and gentle, to be servants—not only His servants, but also the servants of our brethren.

"For I am meek and lowly in heart." As meekness is the opposite of self-will, so lowliness is the reverse of self-esteem and self-righteousness. Lowliness is self-abasement, yes, self-effacement. It is more than a refusing to stand up for our own rights. Though He was so great a Person, this grace was preeminently displayed by Christ. "The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister" (Matthew 20:28); "I am among you as he that serveth" (Luke 22:27). Behold Him as he performed the menial duties of washing: the feet of His disciples. He was the only one born into this world who could choose the home and the circumstances of His birth. What a rebuke to our foolish pride His choice was! My reader, we must indeed learn of Him if this choice flower of paradise is to bloom in the garden of our souls.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Found in Him   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
bluefrog, I exault Christ. Only the devil sees me as exaulting myself. The only reason I would receive any attention is to be able to 'direct' attention to Christ, and the 'finished work,' lest I be found at fault. And that leads to another sermon. "I must decrease, and HE must increase!"

"The least shall be the greatest!" Who are the least? It is they who are under the Cross. For that to be the case, one must understand what it means to be under the Cross. Otherwise he is not decreased. Therefore Christ is not 'increased.' And it is hard to die. No one wants to. But except a seed fall into the ground, and die.... Nothing good will come of it.

HE who saves his life will lose it. In otherwords, he who preserves himself, pushes God aside. HE who loves his own life (even how nifty he is as a Christian) usurps God's.

PLEASE STOP Michael!
Your words are confusing, offensive and rude. These are children of God that you are striking at every single day. I can hardly find a post where you have not attempted to slam a child of God.
You set yourself up for dissension.
That is not God's doing.
It is NOT edifying.
It is NOT instructional
It is NOT beneficial.
It is CONFUSION and is NOT of God.
PLEASE STOP.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yep, under the blood is gooder, me thinks too.

More english.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Michael Harrison wrote
quote:
"The least shall be the greatest!" Who are the least? It is they who are under the Cross. For that to be the case, one must understand what it means to be under the Cross.
And what does it mean to be under the Cross, Michael Harrison?

Should we not first be under the blood of Jesus, i.e., have the blood of Jesus on us by faith, and then we are IMMEDIATELY under the cross?

Just as the Israelites in the land of Goshen during the plagues, the people inside the house were saved, NOT BY THEIR CHARACTER, but they were saved ONLY if there was blood on the outside of the door, in a place where the people INSIDE the house COULD NOT SEE the blood, nor did the destroying Angel care WHO was INSIDE the house.

For what was the testimony?

Exodus 12:13
And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where you are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

The land of Egypt was a type of the world which will be judged next.

The house was a type of our body-house, and when we put the blood of Jesus on the OUTSIDE of OUR house by having faith in the Word of God that Jesus died in my place so that I don't have to die, then ALL GOD CARES ABOUT is whether the blood of Jesus is on the outside of me. Indeed, God isn't even going to BOTHER looking who is INSIDE the house, for the testimony is:

Exodus 12:13
And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where you are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

So even your phrase
quote:
"The least shall be the greatest!" Who are the least? It is they who are under the Cross. For that to be the case, one must understand what it means to be under the Cross.
Try, "It is they who are under the blood". We rejoice because we are under the blood, Michael Harrison.

love, Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MICHAEL...PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH.

What are you talking about in your last sentence, last script ? Are you talking about the living body or spiritual body ? Are you also talking about another of your unbelieving Christians? I'm just a dummy, remember ? You gots to be more pacific n' splain it gooder.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
bluefrog, I exault Christ. Only the devil sees me as exaulting myself. The only reason I would receive any attention is to be able to 'direct' attention to Christ, and the 'finished work,' lest I be found at fault. And that leads to another sermon. "I must decrease, and HE must increase!"

"The least shall be the greatest!" Who are the least? It is they who are under the Cross. For that to be the case, one must understand what it means to be under the Cross. Otherwise he is not decreased. Therefore Christ is not 'increased.' And it is hard to die. No one wants to. But except a seed fall into the ground, and die.... Nothing good will come of it.

HE who saves his life will lose it. In otherwords, he who preserves himself, pushes God aside. HE who loves his own life (even how nifty he is as a Christian) usurps God's.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've had a lot of problems with the server. I got a virus several months ago that turned my posts into sputter, injecting things I didn't write, into the posts. I traced a link I came across, (I don't remember the details) to an international gambling website. It was in Japan. And even now I have a double view of the posting page. (What else?) Some things seem irregular.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
hehehe Sorry Michael it was indeed Eden's post I was quoting. I seem to be having trouble getting in to the CBBS server today so I didn't get back to edit my error. I am sorry!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sounds like Obama. He doesn't answer questions either. I knew he couldn't come up with anything.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
homeschoolers:
quote:
Michael:Respectfully, I did not ask the meaning of sanctification; I asked if you would share the scripture you believe supports these statements you have made.
I have the very same scripture you have!

As long as one thinks it is what they 'do' 'for God', instead of what they receive from God, though one expounds till he expires, it will not be understood. For this cause Jesus said, "He that hath 'ears to hear', let him hear." And wheat will be wheat, and tare will be tare.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
HELP FOR HOMESCHOOLERS...I have only been on here long enough to get myself into trouble.
Well, glad to see you back.

I figured you knew the definition of Sanctification. The reason I gave the two basic definitions was that they don't match with Michaels claims. Either that, or his prayer for me to understand will cause me to be sanctified.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Michael:Respectfully, I did not ask the meaning of sanctification; I asked if you would share the scripture you believe supports these statements you have made.

Bluefrog: thanks for the welcome;I am not new to the forum (note the member number) I just have not been around for a while. It is nice to pop in and see old friends though!

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
bluefrog, I have explained it as easy as it can be explained. Sanctified means cleaned, and fit for use. A little prayer, if you are really His, will go a long way towards understanding this.

I did use the dirty glass out of the dishwasher to make the point. One does not use a dirty glass. Certainly one does not offer a guest to drink out of a dirty glass. And we are like the glass. If we are not clean, we are not set apart (placed in the cabinet, in the case of a glass). If we cannot be set apart, we are not fit for use.

And it is like this: We do not pass go, we do not collect 200 dollars, until we get it. But people who don't get it think they can ignore the truth, break the rules, and rush on out there. These are they who bring reproach on the Kingdom of Heaven. And one, if he or she is serious about God, will stop and consider this, and not go an inch further until HE can go with um.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
HELP FOR HOMESCHOOLERS....Subject: Whoz pullin the Ox cart?

There is no scripture to back up what he is saying. I explained the word Sanctification in a couple of above scripts but none say that.
I also furnished some scripture.

Basicly, SANCTIFICATION means to make holy or set apart.

By the way, welcome to the board. It's good to see some women on here..with you about 4.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
agree that in the commission of a particular sin, while I am committing that sin, I not sanctified in that area at that moment.
Can you please offer some scripture to support this idea of being sanctified in an area of your life?

quote:
But there may have been moments were I WAS sactified in that area of my life, and there ARE areas of my life which ARE exclusively set apart unto Him, and for me that area is the music I listen to.
Can you provide some scripture to show that man is sanctified at some times and not other times...is sanctification something that is switched on and off based on our works?


quote:
I am also mostly sanctified in the books I read, and I am also mostly sanctified in going to the movies (i.e., I don't go). And I am more loving than I used to be, and I am giving more money away than I used to.
quote:
All these were and are part of a gradual process; the more I learned of the Lord and of the Spirit, the more I was able, as bluefrog also said, to SEPARATE good from the bad.

But while one sins in a particular area, one is at that moment not sanctified in that area and maybe one is not at all sanctified in that area of one's life, while there are OTHER areas which ARE already sanctified, even when we may sin in another part of our life still.

Please show some scripture to support that the degree of our sanctification is based on the degree to which we are able to separate good from bad.

Thanks

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Thunderz7     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In self it's filthy rags;
in HIM it's the righteousness of GOD.

T7

Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Michael Harrison wrote
quote:
So to answer your question, if you sin, you 'are' no longer sanctified. That is utterly basic.
I agree that in the commission of a particular sin, while I am committing that sin, I not sanctified in that area at that moment. But there may have been other moments when I WAS sactified in that SAME area of my life, and there ARE areas of my life which ARE exclusively set apart unto Him, and for me that area is the music I listen to. I am also mostly sanctified in the books I read, and I am also mostly sanctified in going to the movies (i.e., I don't go). And I am more loving than I used to be, and I am giving more money away than I used to.

All these were and are part of a gradual process; the more I learned of the Lord and of the Spirit, the more I was able, as bluefrog also said, to SEPARATE good from the bad.

But while one sins in a particular area, one is at that moment not sanctified in that area and maybe one is not at all sanctified in that area of one's life, while there are OTHER areas which ARE already sanctified, even when we may sin in another part of our life still.

love, Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Found in Him   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But my friend, Jesus will handle His believers.

Let Him.

He is very real AND active in the lives of His own.

Don't doubt Him or get in His way.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And I said, Found In Him, that I was saved, infilled, and then sanctified! And I will assert that almost without exception, believers read past what they don't want to face, or hear. They are content in their condition.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But it is, Found In Him! It is discernable every day. It is the choir that needs to be preached to. And that is what Paul did, mind you. He wrote to Christians about Christianity.

Bluefrog, you say, "You try, does that count." It does not. It completely defeats it, utterly.

Because you don't have to try.

Amen!

http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005884#000000

I didn't say I was perfect. Jesus is. And HE said that by your faith, it would be accounted to you. For what is righteousness? Huh?

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Found in Him   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bluefrog:

I wish I was perfect. I try though, does that count? Guess not. You started out saying that you were in a Ox cart and Jesus was pulling you around. Where do we end up ? [/QB]

um, [roll on floor]
never mind!

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596

Icon 5 posted      Profile for Found in Him   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Michael,

Do you realize that you are preaching to the choir here? We are saved, sanctified, and have the infilling of The Spirit of God. It's not a matter of "reading past what the scripture says"

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, you just go right on thinking that you are perfect. I hope you enjoy yourself even with all the burdens you have over us sorry lost souls.

I wish I was perfect. I try though, does that count? Guess not. You started out saying that you were in a Ox cart and Jesus was pulling you around. Where do we end up ?

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here is one of the places where I have discussed this before.

http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005884#000000

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One cannot be 'separate' unless he is cleansed. That is how he is set apart unto the Lord for use. But unbelief will kill it. For sanctification is by faith. And this is what gets me, over and over again I get to go around with someone over this "sanctification is a progression," talk. Well, ultimately it is not. You either are, or you are not. For if it is a process, then when do you become sanctified? And if you are not sanctified, you are not fit for the Master's use. Oh, HE uses us anyway, but not as HE could.

More, whenever...

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Like I told eden the other day, being clean is what sets apart. So to answer your question, if you sin, you 'are' no longer sanctified. That is utterly basic.

Now, there is sin, and there are sins. I know, that is opening another can of worms. But let's do it sometime.

That you said we all sin; it is a touchy subject. There are places however where scripture declares that we are to rise above it, and be perfect. (I love that word. It has engendered a lot of discussions here on this board. ) But people calling themselves 'right on' will go out of their way to dismiss these passages. But the passages will not go away. So people water them down to meaninglessness.

"Ah, there. That is better! It is so much better watered down."

No, I'm afraid not!

But! Everybody else accepts it that way!!!

Too bad. Jesus doesn't.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Found in Him   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Bluefrog wrote:

Sanctify or Consecrate means to make or declare sacred, dedication to a sacred purpose, making holy in preperation for battle, apart from sin to service to the Savior. It is simply put TO SEPERATE. Seperate good from evil, godly from ungodly...stuff like that.


[thumbsup2] and that's Christ's doing! Amen!

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is a never ending run down on sanctification is it not?

Please....how many more ways can a person try to use the word (which is too long to keep this up, hehe)?

Sanctify or Consecrate means to make or declare sacred, dedication to a sacred purpose, making holy in preperation for battle, apart from sin to service to the Savior. It is simply put TO SEPERATE. Seperate good from evil, godly from ungodly...stuff like that.

As a believer in a flesh body it is our duty to try to do these things. If you sin are you no longer sanctified ? Sanctification is something that we do, a process, an effort. Believers sin and that is a fact. Those who say they don't sin are kidding themselves. With righteousness we can and will be forgiven if we ask, but how many times do you think Christ needs sacrificed?
It is Done already.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But there is danger in each and every unsanctified moment, as it is written:

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: [or overcome with sin, or violence against him]

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
If I can add the phrase "at any given moment one is sanctified or in sin", then I can agree with your phrase.

As for your first statement, I can go along with that!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Michael Harrison wrote
quote:
One is sanctified, or one is in sin.
If I can add the phrase "at any given moment one is sanctified or in sin", then I can agree with your phrase.

In history, only THREE people have thus far been FULLY sanctified or SET APART to God:

1. Adam BEFORE the fall
2. Eve BEFORE the fall
3. Jesus as the Son of Man

But nobody has ever been fully sanctified since while they are living in this POST-fall Adamic sin body.

It IS however probably true that God does not look at my sanctification as a basis of whether to give me eternal life/a glorified body when I die, or at the rapture (should the rapture come before I die).

When God looks at a saved sinner, in God's BOOKS, the saved sinner, or Christian, is ALREADY COUNTED as SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED, REDEEMED, and GLORIFIED. So that, in God's BOOKS, I already AM and HAVE all those things:

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.

In God's BOOKS, we are already complete because God actually will look at Jesus instead of us if the blood of Jesus is on us. That is, Jesus covers me and Jesus is "all that" already, for me and in my place and on my behalf.

Okay. Those are the BOOKS. And then comes my daily life, where I was transfered from the devil's world playground to the Lord's world playground, and there are some things to LEARN about how to walk with God:

Matthew 11:29
Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls.

Proverbs 4:7
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom; and with all your getting get understanding.

Michael Harrison, if we already were 100% sanctified, what would be the need of me "getting wisdom" and "getting understanding" if I'm already sanctified "all over"?

love, Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MICHAEL...Sanctification is not what you describe.

You are set apart (sanctified) to God through holiness. It is also a growing experience of becoming holy by what you say or do. It is a powerful word of hope, assuring that a truly good life has now become possible.

I explained all this before, do you think I am wrong ?

Do you believe that Christians sin ? Do you believe that a Christian who sins is no longer a believer ? Do you believe that Jesus is willing to forgive the sins of a Christian ?

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
If the saved Christian CHOOSES to listen to the Holy Spirit and CHOOSES to read the Written Word of God (or, if blind, to hear it on tape), THAT is a CO-OPERATIVE WORK between the Christian and the God of Israel, and that is called "sanctificatin", the gradual setting apart of parts of one's life unto God", like what one reads and what music one listens to, and so forth.
quote:
eden

If one 'listens' to the Holy Spirit, he will be led. That is, if one is sanctified to the Holy Spirit, he will know what it means to be under the Cross. If one is under the Cross, he will be moved by the Spirit. He will know 'how' to listen. If he is not sanctified, he cannot possibly be under the Cross, for they are one in the same. Therefore if it is a matter of degree, one has to ask, "Can I be just under one corner of the Cross, or do I have to be ALL THE WAY?" One is sancitified, or one is in sin.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
And as far as I am concerned, ANYONE who is willing to post Topics and post answers on this bbs is WORKING IN THE VINEYARD OF THE LORD.
quote:
eden

Ah yes, there are those 'good' intentions. So, is the one working 'for' of 'against'? Does one speak 'by' the Lord, or on HIS behalf (supposedly). These are questions I had (and have) to ask myself. It is called 'to examine one's self in the light'. For, "Whatsoever doth make manifest is light."

  • Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

It is a mirror kinda thing:

  • Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

But a hearer sees results. He however does not cause them. So to be a doer, one must 'do faith'. And that comes from drawing closer to the Lord, and not from 'working it up'. Ah yes. There are those 'good intentions' again.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Michael Harrison wrote[quote[If someone thinks he or she will be recognized for what he or she did 'for' God, he or she will find him or herself on the wrong side of judgment. For what one does 'by HIS Spirit' will be everlasting. Ever wonder where they got the expression "By God?"[/quote]A person is saved by merely believing that Jesus died for them, but once a person is saved (i.e., Jesus died 100% for them), after that it becomes a CO-OPERATIVE WORK between the saved Christian and the Christian's willingness to listen to the Holy Spirit and the Christian's willingness to read the Written Word of God.

If the saved Christian CHOOSES to listen to the Holy Spirit and CHOOSES to read the Written Word of God (or, if blind, to hear it on tape), THAT is a CO-OPERATIVE WORK between the Christian and the God of Israel, and that is called "sanctificatin", the gradual setting apart of parts of one's life unto God", like what one reads and what music one listens to, and so forth.

The more sanctified we are, the more God will bless us, because God pays unbelievable wages to anyone who will come work in the vineyard of the Lord:

Matthew 20
2 And when he had agreed with the laborers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4 And he said to them; Go also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

God pays incredible salaries to those who are willing to work in His vineyard.

And as far as I am concerned, ANYONE who is willing to post Topics and post answers on this bbs is WORKING IN THE VINEYARD OF THE LORD.

Whooz pullin the Ox cart?Hopefully God. But if not God, I'm the one pullin the Ox cart, to my detriment.

love, Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
So, you see, I don't totally disagree with ya.
I just can't see Jesus pullin us around when He has already done that, so to speak.

"Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever." It is always now bluefrog. When you say that HE already 'done' that, you no doubt imagine that now you must begin to carry the baton. But in that HE did that, HE is also 'doing' it. It is why we need a savior, for we cannot. But pride, and smugness convinces us that we must 'help' Him.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MICHAEL...Subject: Whooz pullin the Ox cart?

Wellllll, I don't see it the way that you do, sorta.

The comment that Jesus made is a bit unusual but not to tough to understand.

Matthew 11:28,29,30
v 28 Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden.
v 29 Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart; and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
v30 For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.

Christ refers not to sins but to service; not to guilt, but to labour, not conscience but to the heart; not repentance but to learning, not to finding forgiveness but finding rest. When Jesus says He is meek and lowly in heart, it means He is gentle and humble in heart. He puts us in harness with Himself and we become his partner as he shares his strength with us, easing the weight we once had to pull.

So, you see, I don't totally disagree with ya.
I just can't see Jesus pullin us around when He has already done that, so to speak.

Therefore, Whooz pullin ? We are. We are yoked with Him and it is following our salvation. But it is for sure a figure of speech. rivit

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And here's the thing, it is not 'past tense'. It is continually present tense. Whoz doin the doing? Jesus is the Ox. HE said of Himself, "Take my yoke. My burden is light." What HE means is that HE does the pulling. We are along for the ride. He paid a fearsome price to grant us this. It is the only way HE will have it. And our obedience enables HIS accomplishment. For it is imparted (imputed) to us.

I went to a gospel singing the other night. I was thinkin: The difference between a church attendee and a spirital believer is that attendee sees a group that entertains, and the spiritually regenerated person hears a group that inspires him to worship. The attendee is entertaining the flesh, while the spiritual person is worshipping in the Spirit. And scripture says that we must "Worship God 'in' the Spirit, and in the Truth." One knows God and knows it, and the other pretends, though he believes he is one of the elect! It is both scary and hurtful.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bluefrog
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ephesians 2:8-9
v 8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; v9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The ox is a symbol of strength. The face of an ox was seen on the cherub in Ezekiel's vision (Ez 1:5-10) and on one of the living creatures by the throne of God (Rev.4:6-11).

The Israelite tribes gave the Levites six carts and twelve oxen to help transport the tabernacle (a meeting tent) across the wilderness (Num. 6)

When you are adopted into the family of God you become part of the family with all the rights and priviledges and no one can take it away from you. There was absolutely nothing that you did or could have done to deserve this other than faith, nothing.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Why do I keep saying it is not in 'doing'? Well, you don't get saved, and get hitched straight away to the oxcart and start pulling. You find the Ox, and you get in the wagon. Find the Ox, dummie.

(I guess Betty will be calling me and tellin me not to say dummie!)

If someone thinks he or she will be recognized for what he or she did 'for' God, he or she will find him or herself on the wrong side of judgment. For what one does 'by HIS Spirit' will be everlasting. Ever wonder where they got the expression "By God?"

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Christian Visual Media | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0