|
Author
|
Topic: If I died today...
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
EDEN...OK, then go save yourself.
You told oneinchrist "no matter how bornagain a Christian I am" That's the first time I have heard someone say they were a Christian in degrees. Hmmmmm
Maybe a little savin of yourself and then some from God ? Maybe some left with the family?
IP: Logged | 
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
bluefrog wrote quote:
EDEN...Where do you get the idea that Christ died to help you out with your problems? What does that have to do with anything but being redeemed and Jesus Christ.
We don't make deals with God. It's all about HIM Not US.
Oh really? It is not also about us? Since when is having a relationship with a human or with God a one-sided thing?
God loves His saved children and shows them FAVOR over the rest of the unsaved people:
Psalm 106:4
Remember me, O LORD, with the FAVOR that You bear to Your people: O visit me with Your salvation.
Proverbs 8:35
For whoso finds Me finds life, and shall obtain FAVOR of the LORD.
John 10:10
... I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
It is about God AND about us. We the bornagain children thru Jesus are the object of God's love in a special way that the rest of the world does not receive.
Psalm 23:5
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anointest my head with oil; my cup runs over.
Relationship is not a one-way street, bluefrog.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
hi, oneinchrist, you wrote to Eden quote:
In reference to your response to me indicating that a prayer for strength to forgive may not be answered ... and then that would perhaps, in your mind, signify that unforgiveness/bitterness is thereby justifiable
Unforgiveness or bitterness is not justifiable at all by me; I do what I can, and that's it.
Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.
I do not set out to be mean to anyone, but given a certain set of circumstances, I know from experience that I can still be mean when certain buttons are pushed, no matter how bornagain a Christian I am. How about you, oneinchrist?
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
EDEN...Where do you get the idea that Christ died to help you out with your problems? What does that have to do with anything but being redeemed and Jesus Christ.
We don't make deals with God.
It's all about HIM Not US.
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi again Eden,
I understand that families have their issues........but I also understand what it says in the Word of God.
In reference to your response to me indicating that a prayer for strength to forgive may not be answered............and then that would perhaps, in your mind, signify that unforgiveness/bitterness is thereby justifiable. I flat out disagree..........why? because no answer to a prayer could still be an answer. God could be leaving it up to us to make the choice......testing our faith.
How do you know that God does not deem it perfectly sufficient enough to have sent the strong message of forgiveness to the world, by His Son, and for the Son to have sent strong warning regarding forgiveness. In other words, maybe God has determined that we have received sufficient motivation/reason to obey the command to forgive.
I have a feeling that your view on this is boxed inside of your view on "carnality". I tell you this..........that though Christians can at times think and behave carnally, there is no such thing as a "carnal" Christian in the sense that their life is marked by continous patterns of predominant carnal thinking and behavior. Though Paul the apostle spoke of the inner struggle between the mind and the flesh, he goes on to preach that victory comes to the mind choosing to serve the spirit. A mind that chooses to serve the spirit does not give low/nominal regard to the teachings of Jesus, the Son of God.
We cannot allow ourselves to become passive towards sin--giving sin excuses. That is how the devil begins to gain leverage into our lives and his foothold can gain more and more ground if we continue to regard sin that way. Unforgiveness/bitterness is sin, and it should be looked at as nothing less.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
hello, oneinchrist, you wrote to Eden quote:
Yes! pray to Jesus that He would help me. I think, Eden, that you would agree with me that the Lord would not ignore such a request.
I myself have prayed for things which did not come to pass. Many bornagain Christians still have plenty of problems. I know of one Christian woman, bornagain by all defintions that I know of, who still has a a lot of anger towards her ex-husband who cheated on her with her cousin. This same Christian woman also still has a lot of issues with her mentally ill sister. Other than that, the Christian woman helps many people and is active in her church, and does what she can to help out and love her neighbor.
We may be Christians, but we are still affected a lot by the same issues that affect non-Christians; howbeit, we Christians have an anchor for our soul, knowing that, beyond this life, we will have eternal life with Jesus, and that knowledge helps us:
Hebrews 6
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which enters into that within the veil;
20 Where the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec.
In spite of all of our problems, God loved us and sent His Son to die for us. Many of our ancestral problems are still with us, and some we overcome, and some we do not.
Romans 12
18 If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.
For some it may be forgiveness, for others it may be anger problems, whatever, that's why Jesus died for us, because we were unable to solve our problems, even after trying many times.
Jesus died in spite of who we are, and not because of who we are.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
ONE IN CHRIST...If you need someone to blame, there is always a Mother-in-law.
If you don't have one, blame the one you didn't marry.
If all else fails "the devil made ya do it".
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Eden,
I see that you are saying that being "unable to forgive" should not be considered the same thing as "holding back forgiveness".............but I would argue, that for a Christian, there would have to be a close-knit relation between the two.
Let me try and explain what I mean.......
If I have become so offended by one of my brothers that I do not feel that I am able to forgive him........what am I, as a believer in Jesus, supposed to do if I really want to do Gods will, but cannot find the strength? Yes! pray to Jesus that He would help me. I think, Eden, that you would agree with me that the Lord would not ignore such a request.
The Lord surely knows the difference between someone who just does not want to forgive and someone who does want to forgive, but needs help.
If I am unable to forgive because I have not asked the Lord for help........then who's to blame?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Eden your welcome...
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
oneinchrist wrote to Eden quote:
Biblically, I believe it is necessary to forgive.
Yes, the Bible standard is to forgive even as we are forgiven.
oneinchrist continued quote:
you went on to give reasons why it may be OK to hold back forgiveness.
It is not a question of someone "holding back forgiveness", but of being "unable to forgive", especially not among family members where there often is a lot of residual sibling anger.
becauseHElives wrote quote:
Eden, your theology stinks.
Thanks for the compliment.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
EDEN...when you were baptised wasn't it to leave the old life and be saved from it ?
IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
quote:
we are products of our family and ancestral history. It is much easier for a Christian who was raised in a forgiving family, to forgive.
Eden, your theology stinks
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
|
posted
For an additional statement regarding the importance of forgiveness and the eternal blessing of this "gift" see my statement on the "gift of forgiveness" at http://christianityetc.org/forgiveness.php I think it supports what you say Daniel.
Bob
--------------------
Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Eden,
Biblically, I believe it is necessary to forgive. I do not believe the warning would be so strong if it was not imperative that we be forgiving. To love is a choice,and to be forgiving is a choice..........though it may be more or less difficult for some people in some circumstances........it is still a choice. Just like repentance is a choice......for some it may come with tears.....for others no tears, but still with an inner feeling of regret......and the choice to humble oneself before God in turning away from "pride" and "self-will". Faith is a choice......it is a choice of where we are going to put our trust. Choices, choices, choices that reflect where we put our faith........whether it be in the world or in the word of God.
As far as the example that I gave you. My relative chooses not to forgive. He has no excuse. He may think he does and he may think he can justify it in his own mind. It may be difficult for him, but it is still a choice. Jesus does not say that there is an exception for some people who may be harder to forgive.
I am kind of surprised that you did not answer with a clear yes or no........you went on to give reasons why it may be OK to hold back forgiveness. I certainly do not believe that there is any excuse to be unforgiving in any circumstance for the reason that Jesus suffered and died for even the most vile sinner and for the reason that the Word of God is specific on the issue of forgiveness giving specific warning. The message of Jesus is a message of Gods willingness to forgive us no matter how sinful we may have been in our lives........passivity(in our lives) towards the matter of forgiveness, I am afraid, may invite in judgement.
Eden, I would like to clarify something. I think we both understand that people who have not heard the word of God, people who have not understood the word of God, people who have been wrongly taught the word of God, babies, young children(until his/her age of accountability as determined by God),the mentally incapacitated, the severily physically handicapped, etc. would most likely not be put in the same category of accountability as those who have heard the word of God and understand what they hear. So when I say that I do not believe that there can be exceptions when it comes to forgiveness it is assumably appliceable to the ones who have heard and understood the Word of God.
When I share with others(especially my family) on this issue, I do not say that we as believers SHOULD forgive.........I say that we as believers MUST forgive. I am convinced that is what the Word of God teaches us.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hi, oneinchrist, you wrote quote:
Eden, based on "Jesus' teaching" on forgiveness, dont you think it necessary(not optional) to trust in His warning?
Eden, I think the truth is that there are many who say that they believe in Jesus........but His command to love is far from their hearts? What do you think? Is that OK?
Regarding whether a Christian is able to forgive, or not forgive, or whether a Christian loves, or does not love, we are products of our family and ancestral history. It is much easier for a Christian who was raised in a forgiving family, to forgive.
And it is much easier for a Christian to love another person when the Christian comes from a family which loved others.
Therefore, for some Christians it is easier to forgive and to love and to do many other things that Jesus taught, than it is for other Christians.
It is for this reason that I think that we are saved, not BECAUSE OF who were are, but IN SPITE OF who we are:
John 3
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him would not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.
Romans 5:8
But God commends His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Luke 18
13 But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you that this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone who exalts himself shall be abased; and he who humbles himself shall be exalted.
The reason why Jesus died for us are obvious: we are hopeless lost in sin and need a savior. If we could do anything about our condition, I'm sure we would do something. But our righteousness is as filthy menstrual rags.
God will only look at Jesus's righteousness when the time comes to decide whether we should die the second death, or not. And the only question to be decided then and there will be: did the person believe that Jesus died in their place?
And if the answer is yes, they will be saved because God said, "when I see the blood I will pass over". God didn't first ask WHO WAS IN THE HOUSE before He passed over. God passed over without asking about the quality of the people inside the house; if they had faith to put the blood on the lintel of their house, they were passed over (and thus saved), period.
The teachins of Jesus are what they are. But how well each Christian is able to do any one of the teachings, depends a lot on that Christian's family history.
So oneinchrist, it is not that I don't think that we should DO Jesus's teachings, but that depending on which teaching, some are better at some than others.
But in any case, it is not so much a case of ME doing the teachings of Jesus, as it is me getting out of the way and letting Jesus IN ME do His own teachings.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
ONE IN CHRIST....OK, that is good news. Starts my new year off well now.
Now, what can we disagree on ? LOL
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Bluefrog,
Sorry, I lost you. I was agreeing with you in my post and then I went on to elaborate a little. It seems to me that you think that I was being disagreeable with you. That is not the case though.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
ONE IN CHRIST...Subject: If I died today.
Know what, you are the hardest man I ever did see to agree with. Firstest, I didn't bring the subject up, I just commented on it. Secondly, the subject can't be ignored, especially under the circumstanses. One of the firstest thangs ya learn in Law 101 is that when a point of law is introduced and you have two witnesses they can both see the same thang but when give out their testimoney is sounds different. IE, Witness No. 1 says, I seed a blue car hit a van. Witness No. 2 says, I saw a car hit a red van.
They are both right.
There is no question, I don't think, LOL, that when a person is saved years before his/her death that they will be capable of glorifying the Lord more than the person who steps out of church and gets run over by a bus right after their baptism.
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Bluefrog,
The point that you stress is the very reason that I believe that we should be cautious not to confuse the message of the thief on the cross with the message of what it means to be a follower/disciple of Jesus. The thief on the cross sends the strong message that no matter how sinful or vile someone may seem to others, that they still can be saved to eternal life......but...........that message does not take from the message that it is not easy to be a true follower of Jesus......one who is not ashamed of the gospel will come face to face with adversity...........and we should pray for one another that we do not become offended by the word.......falling to the wayside.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
Christ wants No One to come short of the Glory of God. If He told the thief on the cross next to Him that because of his belief in Him he would be with Him in heaven, who would doubt it?
How many times do you suppose that a person has discovered Christ, believed in Him, and felt like they should ask to be saved but put it off for some reason ? Of those, how many lived to see that day, or did they die before it happened?
Did they plan to die, or were they sure they would live plenty long to take care of that and this way they could get in all the sinful things they wanted to do? Hello, Great Commission !
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi again Eden,
To answer your question about "which teachings"..............all of His teachings. Eden, I do not understand why you would argue against what I am saying? Faith, even in the days before the New Covenant was established, was evidenced by both a trust in God for Who He is as well as a trust in His Word.........let me try and give you one example of what I am trying to say in a way that I believe cannot be misunderstood.
To believe in Jesus would mean that we believe in the "peril of being unforgiving". Jesus could not be any more clear when He said that if we choose not to forgive that our Father in heaven will not forgive us. I personally know somebody in my family who claims that they believe in Jesus, but they have continued for many many years now to harbor unforgiveness towards another family member. The bitterness in their heart is so evident by their willingness to falsely accuse them in all sorts of ways, even without remorse when obviously proved wrong. I do not make any judgements on this person, but I do fear for their soul.
Eden, based on "Jesus' teaching" on forgiveness, dont you think it necessary(not optional) to trust in His warning?
Eden, I think the truth is that there are many who say that they believe in Jesus........but His command to love is far from their hearts? What do you think? Is that OK?
If I may, I would like to propose what I believe becauseHElives is trying to express to you........please correct me becauseHElives, if I am wrong..............while you, Eden, appear to be accusing becauseHElives of false teaching(by adding obedience as a requirement for salvation), what I believe the truth is, is that becauseHElives is trying to emphasize (at least to my understanding) is that true genuine faith in Jesus issues in obedience. How can anyone argue that? Obedience shows that we believe something strongly enough that we are willing to act on it.
Every Word that has comes out of Jesus mouth pertains to life. I think we are in danger if we think that we can pick and choose. Please do not assume that I am saying that there is a such thing as perfect obedience.......what I am saying is that biblical faith in Jesus is both faith in Him and in His Word......
John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him---the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hello, oneinchrist, you wrote to Eden quote:
I hope you do not think that the thief on the cross proves that there is no need for committing oneself to the teachings of Jesus.
All in all, when Jesus says that we must have faith in Him, I do believe it safe to assume that faith in Him also means faith in His life teachings.
If you believe that faith is saving faith without faith in Jesus' Word I would disagree with you.
If I may ask, which teachings of Jesus did the thief commit himself to? The thief had "faith in Jesus", and the thief had probably seen and heard Jesus before the thief stupidly caused himself to be crucified next to Jesus. So the thief probably "had faith in Jesus".
As it says in the Bible:
John 6
28 Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent.
So the thief was following the teaching of Jesus in that.
But oneinchrist, when you say: quote:
I hope you do not think that the thief on the cross proves that there is no need for committing oneself to the teachings of Jesus.
I do think that there is a different between a soon-to-be-dead-new Christian and a living Christian. A Christian who "continues to live" has, like any living being and family members, "obligations to be a productive and helpful member of the family", and as such, it is not so much that I do the teachings of Jesus as that it is Jesus who performs His own teachings in me and through me.
In any case, I have always found it curious that someone can propose or imply that a believer, who has faith in Jesus, and who has access to the Holy Spirit is "now going to be a worse human being than they have ever been before", and that of course, "just isn't going to happen".
A Christian may stay a "carnal" Christian and not make much progress beyond believing in Jesus for their salvation, but it is RARE that a Christian, once having believed and having access to the Holy Spirit, is now going to be "much wilder than they have ever been"; that is both unlikely and unrealistic.
However, Paul did address this issue in the Bible, preaching first that since Christ died for us, we COULD, conceivably, DO MORE BAD than we did before "since we are forgiven anyway". This is what Paul said:
Galatians 5:13
For, brethren, you have been called unto liberty; only, do not use liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Romans 6
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
So oneinchrist, let me ask you, when you say quote:
[quote]I hope you do not think that the thief on the cross proves that there is no need for committing oneself to the teachings of Jesus.
, which teachings of Jesus do you have in mind, more or less? As I said, I do think there is a difference between a soon-to-be dead Christian and a living Chrstian. A living Christian has "family obligations", Amen?
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hello, oneinchrist, you wrote to Eden quote:
I hope you do not think that the thief on the cross proves that there is no need for committing oneself to the teachings of Jesus.
All in all, when Jesus says that we must have faith in Him, I do believe it safe to assume that faith in Him also means faith in His life teachings.
If you believe that faith is saving faith without faith in Jesus' Word I would disagree with you.
If I may ask, which teachings of Jesus did the thief commit himself to? The thief had "faith in Jesus", and the thief had probably seen and heard Jesus before the thief stupidly caused himself to be crucified next to Jesus. So the thief probably "had faith in Jesus".
As it says in the Bible:
John 6
28 Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent.
So the thief was following the teaching of Jesus in that.
But oneinchrist, when you say: quote:
I hope you do not think that the thief on the cross proves that there is no need for committing oneself to the teachings of Jesus.
I do think that there is a different between a soon-to-be-dead-new Christian and a living Christian. A Christian who "continues to live" has, like any living being and family members, "obligations to be a productive and helpful member of the family", and as such, it is not so much that [b]I do the teachings of Jesus as that it is Jesus who performs His own teachings in me and through me.
In any case, I have always found it curious that someone can propose or imply that a believer, who has faith in Jesus, and who has access to the Holy Spirit is "now going to be a worse human being than they have ever been before", and that of course, "just isn't going to happen".
A Christian may stay a "carnal" Christian and not make much progress beyond believing in Jesus for their salvation, but it is RARE that a Christian, once having believed and having access to the Holy Spirit, is now going to be "much wilder than they have ever been"; that is both unlikely and unrealistic.
However, Paul did address this issue in the Bible, preaching first that since Christ died for us, we COULD, conceivably, DO MORE BAD than we did before "since we are forgiven anyway". This is what Paul said:
Galatians 5:13
For, brethren, you have been called unto liberty; only, do not use liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Romans 6
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
So oneinchrist, let me ask you, when you say quote:
[quote]I hope you do not think that the thief on the cross proves that there is no need for committing oneself to the teachings of Jesus.
, which teachings of Jesus do you have in mind, more or less? As I said, I do think there is a difference between a soon-to-be dead Christian and a living Chrstian. A living Christian has "family obligationis", Amen?
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
BECAUSE HE LIVES....Subject: If I died today:
I don't think that anyone here believes that Jesus died just to get us into heaven either. Of course He died to also give us a new birth with life everlasting. That new birth brings on the release of the sinful past.
IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Amen phillip tidwell ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Amen Daniel
Eden I carefully chose how I answered your question, the greatest enemy Yahshua's Church has is the doctrine of easy believism...
His gave His life that He might have a Bride,
He died that people might be free from the bondage of the sin that held humans souls in a bondage grip just as Paul compared to the grip Pharaoh had upon the Israelite's ...
Yahshua did not die just so you and I can go to heaven.... He died that we can be free of the bondage of sin in this life.... and don't come back and ask me if I am perfect in this body of flesh, I am not but I am not in bondage to sin as I was before Yahshua became my master either....
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
The initial question: "If I died today" seems to be a question of timing, nothing else in question here on this subject. Am I right ?
Are you going to make me wait til next year to hear your answer ?
rivit !
IP: Logged |
|
|
phillip tidwell
Advanced Member
Member # 6966
|
posted
This sounds like an issue of semantics as much as theology. Perhaps if the word “discipleship” were substituted for the word “obedience”, the issue would be cleared.
James 2:19 says: “You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder.” In other words, intellectual acceptance (head knowledge) that Jesus is Lord and the one and only means of salvation is insufficient by itself to actually receive the gift of salvation. Knowing Jesus in our hearts and not just our heads is required to be a true Christian as opposed to a nominal Christian (Christian in name only).
Knowing Jesus in our hearts is essential to accepting Him as your personal savior and is discipleship. I contend the thief on the cross knew Jesus in his heart and thereby accomplished discipleship or, in a sense, obedience.
Discipleship changes the heart so that a true Christian is born again and is motivated to follow teachings of the Christ as lead by the Holy Spirit so that “good fruit” is produced. Call that obedience if you want. I call it discipleship and certainly believe it is essential to salvation.
Posts: 63 | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Eden,
I thought that I might see what direction this topic was going to go. The only thing that I want to say regarding this issue is that I believe that scriptures reveal to us that there is to be no dichotomy between faith in Jesus and faith in His Word. In other words, if I believe in Jesus I must also believe in His teachings. You seem to put all emphasis on believing in Jesus(who He is and what He has accomplished) and apparently(at least in this post) none on His teachings.
I hope you do not think that the thief on the cross proves that there is no need for committing oneself to the teachings of Jesus.
All in all, when Jesus says that we must have faith in Him, I do believe it safe to assume that faith in Him also means faith in His life teachings.
If you believe that faith is saving faith without faith in Jesus' Word I would disagree with you. If you believe that a person can be saved without committing His life to Jesus and His teachings I would disagree with you. The thief on the cross story would not convince me otherwise.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hi, becauseHElives, you wrote quote:
Just don't miss use what time you may have left, believing the lie obedience is not part of salvation!
So you want to add "obedience" to salvation by faith? If I may, in what way did the thief add "obedience to his faith"? Is the "thief" situation the "bottom line" of salvation?
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
EDEN...Question: If I died today...
I can't understand why anyone would ever ask such a question. I suppose that is is asked often at one time or another, but why ?
I have no answer for the question. My thinking is that it may be as questionable as "Lord, if I have only minutes before I die, will you accept me into the Kingdom?" or "Lord, if I die before I have time to ask you to save me, would you go ahead and save me anyway?"
Anytime a person is saved it is because the Lord has accepted them isn't it? In this senerio it sounds like it is the choice of the so called believer.
IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
it was true for the thief on the cross, I see no reason it would not still be the same today....
Yahweh knows the heart, not I.....
Yahweh knows your circumstances, not I....
just don't miss use what time you may have left, believing the lie obedience is not part of salvation!
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
If I died today and said to the Lord Jesus with my last breaths, "Lord Jesus, I commit my spirit into Your hands", and assuming that I sincerely meant that Jesus had suffered and died for me on the cross and in my place, the Lord Jesus would HAVE to accept me JUST ON THE BASIS that Jesus DID suffer and die for me on the cross, right?
That is, there are NO OTHER ADDITIVES, right? Jesus's work on the cross was SUFFICIENT in God's eyes, right, if I died today?
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
