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Author
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Topic: DEAD WORKS
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Ah! He did say, "With his tenant." Yea, such a special situation requires special grace. That would be an easy temptation which would present a huge opportunity to 'react' out of the carnal instincts. But God's grace answers each situation. It may not be according to our design, which we would follow. And that is a fact about the test! It isn't usually according to how we would orchestrate it. There is where the "Breaking of the Outward Man," comes in (Nee), in that the test is not designed to accomodate us, but to Glorify God.
YE see, when you say you "picked up the pieces, and moved on," you do discredit the reality of the situation. All the pieces were not picked up. In fact, some were scattered. It isn't just about you. And God had a measured response that had worth for the offender. Then will the pieces have been 'picked up' so that one could move on.
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Michael Harrison
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Hey bluefrog. It seemed that you didn't post for a while. I was wondering? Mebbee I jus wasn't awake.
Well, gotta hand it to ya, that is well said; "Done" works. But people don't get it when you make it that simple. And if you make it lengthy, as say, Watchman Nee did, people start taking extracts and running with them as thought they were newly discovered things 'to do', if they want to be spiritual. It is quite the opposite though, of what Nee wants them to discover.
Was? No, is the professor a 'landlord'? (Is he a professor?)
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bluefrog
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MICHAEL HARRISON..Subject: Dead Works.
Not very important to the conversations subject but I think Eden is the Landlord, not the tenant.
Back to the subject: You made a good comment..."God longs for our "brokenness" so we can know what it means to follow."
Can't we boil this subject down to mean that there is Dead Works, which we will call "Do's" and Live Works, which we can call "Done's"?
Done by God, that is.
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Michael Harrison
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Concerning Stam's sermon, particularly the part in bold:
quote:
Mark well, these references are not to wicked works but to dead works. These "dead works" are the so-called "good works" (whether moral or ceremonial) which men did -- and still do -- to make themselves acceptable to God. They are "dead" because they are not the product of regeneration or spiritual life, but the mere attempt on the part of unregenerate sinners to justify themselves before God.
It really goes deeper than just the 'unregenerated'. There is in the 'regenerated' a condition that holds him back, that stunts him. In that condition he may want to please God, but cannot, as God desires, because he is 'still' blind. He knows God IS, and has professed faith in Him, and has been regenerated, however, he is in a 'works' based condition of belief. And that is why Paul wrote epistles to all of the churches, to lead them 'out' of that.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
eden, I do know, exactly. However, you not only sinned against the landlord. When it is truly understood, it will be known that you sinned against God, directly. And the situation you were in was for one purpose. It was to reveal something to you about yourself, in your relationship with Him. It reveals that you are not, or were not (in the situation) 'broken'. In other words, you 'reigned' and put God off. It is the opposite of serving. For God to come through and minister something to someone, or 'edify' you, you will have to know the meaning of being broken. That is 'you' plural: In otherwords, I mean anyone! Otherwise it is clear to be seen that 'we' stand in the way, which is 'not' a good thing. God longs in His heart of hearts, for our 'brokenness', so that we can know what it means to follow!
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Michael Harrison
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posted
1N: There is a deeper messge in the sufferings of Job than is entirely obvious. I haven't read it for a long time, but I'l try to relate what "i" understand.
I'll make it short. Job was a righeous man. Job was blessed. Job was blessed because he was a righteous man. But Job didn't understand where righteousness came from. Job supposed, mistakenly, that he 'contributed', and that by that, he was righteous. It was not very far from the righteousness of Cain, what Job understood.
Now, he was true to God, and God did prove him out to be. That however was ony part of the message. For Job's being 'true' was of God. Therein lies the message. But Job, prior to the shakedown, knowing that he was true to God, felt justified. That is the summation. That is the very problem. And when his friends 'accused' him, he could only be hurt because he thought his worth was 'self-generated' on 'behalf' of God, that is, to please God.
Now, he knew, basically, that he was true. And again, it goes back to the fact that Job didn't understand where his faithfulness derived from. When he understood that, then his faith stood in God, and was properly ordained. He then knew it was not his merit which 'earned'. And in the New Testament, this verse is one which would apply:
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
....and
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall 'no flesh be justified' in his sight:.
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
After his ordeal we might say he was able to "Lay up treasure in heaven, where moth and dust doth not corrupt," and realize that his righteousness did not create the wealth he had previously acquired. In other words, he was 'broken' without which no one of us can 'know' HIM. Again, in more other words, (otro palabras) he crossed an invisible line that he wasn't aware was there previously.
This, suppose some, happened to Paul. Some suppose that when he was, "pressed out of measure insomuch that he despaired of life," that something in his spiritual understanding matured. Paul entered a new dimension of his faith.
And again, I have spoken of what Watchman Nee said about Jacob, how that his thigh was dislocated when he wrestled with God. It is the same thing, repeated over and over throughout the word. When God 'breaks' someone, he or she 'understands' total dependence upon God, which, if you will, is our goal, not 'working' for Him 'trying' to 'accomplish' His will. That is what Job found out. Amen!
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Eden
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becauseHElives quoted Matthew Henry: quote:
This is a most important exhortation; for while a man's darling sin, be it what it will, remains unsubdued, it will hinder him from running the Christian race, as it takes from him every motive for running, and gives power to every discouragement.
That's not my experience of sin. When there is something that I have done, like having a shouting match over unpaid rent with my tenant, it only temporarily takes away from running my race, but it does not, as Matthew Henry proposed, "take away every motive for running" and it does not "give power to every disouragement". That's not true at all. The effects of sin are temporary. Afterwards a Christian gets back up and continues on his race again as valiantly as before.
with love, Eden
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi Michael,
Im not sure if I can agree with the assessment that you make in your above post, that, Job felt that he gained favor in Gods eyes solely by the merit of his own goodness.........and that being the reason why he was chastised.
We do not know exactly how Job viewed himself before God.......so there is, I think, too much speculation on that end. What we do know is that Job was genuinely pious(which does not necessarily equate to a self-righteous attitude) and that he was in the manifest favor of God and men even before the sufferings came.
All in all, I believe that the sufferings came more to prove that Jobs heart was indeed loyal and true to God and not rather that Job deserved suffering for a self-righteous view of himself.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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bluefrog
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EDEN...You said:
Good God, man, give me a verse and chapter for this.
Answer: There isn't one. I was sure you could tell I was making it up. I will be more careful next time. Sorry.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
wildb sed quote:
Job was not chastened for bad conduct or evil desires.
Ultimately he was. Job was considered a 'righteous' man, however he was out of relationship. The problem was that he thought he merited the favor of God by his piousness. And indeed, God did recognize him. But his piousness is not what facilitated it. So it was bad conduct in that it missed God's perfect working, what Job thought. And his shakedown was about ordering the relationship properly, so that Job could recognize God in HIS work, and in HIS word.
In other words, Job was chastened in order to bring him out of self-dependency, upon which he relied in order to be seen as righteous.
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WildB
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posted
"Let us then learn to consider the afflictions brought on us by the malice of men, as corrections sent by our wise and gracious Father, for our spiritual good. "
Why would any consider this?
I Shall repel the enemy!
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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posted
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary...
Hebrews 12:1-11
The persevering obedience of faith in Christ, was the race set before the Hebrews, wherein they must either win the crown of glory, or have everlasting misery for their portion; and it is set before us. By the sin that does so easily beset us, understand that sin to which we are most prone, or to which we are most exposed, from habit, age, or circumstances.
This is a most important exhortation; for while a man's darling sin, be it what it will, remains unsubdued, it will hinder him from running the Christian race, as it takes from him every motive for running, and gives power to every discouragement.
When weary and faint in their minds, let them recollect that the holy Jesus suffered, to save them from eternal misery. By stedfastly looking to Jesus, their thoughts would strengthen holy affections, and keep under their carnal desires. Let us then frequently consider him.
What are our little trials to his agonies, or even to our deserts?
What are they to the sufferings of many others?
There is a proneness in believers to grow weary, and to faint under trials and afflictions; this is from the imperfection of grace and the remains of corruption. Christians should not faint under their trials. Though their enemies and persecutors may be instruments to inflict sufferings, yet they are Divine chastisements; their heavenly Father has his hand in all, and his wise end to answer by all.
They must not make light of afflictions, and be without feeling under them, for they are the hand and rod of God, and are his rebukes for sin. They must not despond and sink under trials, nor fret and repine, but bear up with faith and patience. God may let others alone in their sins, but he will correct sin in his own children. In this he acts as becomes a father.
Our earthly parents sometimes may chasten us, to gratify their passion, rather than to reform our manners. But the Father of our souls never willingly grieves nor afflicts his children. It is always for our profit.
Our whole life here is a state of childhood, and imperfect as to spiritual things; therefore we must submit to the discipline of such a state. When we come to a perfect state, we shall be fully reconciled to all God's chastisement of us now. God's correction is not condemnation; the chastening may be borne with patience, and greatly promote holiness.
Let us then learn to consider the afflictions brought on us by the malice of men, as corrections sent by our wise and gracious Father, for our spiritual good.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote quote:
No, Michael ! I said stuff him in the pit in the ground and stand by with your horn. Not shove your horn in the pit and turn him loose.
Good God, man, give me verse and chapter for this.
Numbers 23:22
God brought them out of Egypt; he {Israel} has as it were the strength of a unicorn.
love, Eden
"another day to find my way with Jesus, I get another day, ooh, ooh..."
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bluefrog
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MICHAEL...18 Rounds, not 18 Holes.
I sure hope the angel of your namesake can get his details gooder. hehe
No, Michael ! I said stuff him in the pit in the ground and stand by with your horn. Not shove your horn in the pit and turn him loose.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Bluefrog, wyldb's latest post came before mine. I did start a 'side' post, due to the fact that wyld b erases his entire post and starts over if one disagrees with him, (at least if I do). It ain't nutin but a thang. But I have to say that I am a fan of Cornie Spam. Don't let the jab at his name fool ya. Nelious is a great preacher of the truth. We have spots of dissagreement. Tis not anything insurmountable though. But if I disagree ever, it mostly is with whileb's interpretation. He seems to favor the notion that grace is God 'looking' the other way, while God at the same time is stating that HE favors His own. Therefore whileb is missing a great blessing. I don't have to answer for him tho.
Such morsels to be eaten in one post.
You judge your own self.
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WildB
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Job was not chastened for bad conduct or evil desires.
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Michael Harrison
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Ya are confused then. Golf was never that hard on someone! ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
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bluefrog
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BECAUSE HE LIVES...Say HUH?
Hebrews 12:5-7-11 is interesting reading, especially for folks who do not believe in chastening.
As for your interpretation...Mercy ! I guess it could be read like you said:
I do not chasten for obedience, I chasten for disobedience.
Me thinks you need to consider the scriptures before and after. In other words the term disobedience is not used which is also proper.
How do I explain this ? Help Someone. I am coming out of a three day migrain and my brain feels like I went 18 rounds, it ainta workin too good.
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Michael Harrison
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Bluefrog, wyldb's latest post came before mine. I did start a 'side' post, due to the fact that wyld b erases his entire post and starts over if one disagrees with him, (at least if I do). It ain't nutin but a thang. But I have to say that I am a fan of Cornie Spam. Don't let the jab at his name fool ya. Nelious is a great preacher of the truth. We have spots of dissagreement. Tis not anything insurmountable though. But if I disagree ever, it mostly is with whileb's interpretation. He seems to favor the notion that grace is God 'looking' the other way, while God at the same time is stating that HE favors His own. Therefore whileb is missing a great blessing. I don't have to answer for him tho.
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becauseHElives
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posted
quote:
So when was the last time you "Think" you were chastened?
WildB, that's between my Dad and I
quote:
bluefrog said... BECAUSEHELIVES... You said:
"a disobedient child that is not chasten is a bastard..."
I take it that you got this from Hebrews 12;5,7,11 but I don't read it that way.
I can think of no place where it says that.
yep, that's what I said...."a disobedient child that is not chasten is a bastard..." and yep Hebrews 12 is where I was referring.
There is no other interpretation of Hebrews 12...
I have five children that I love, I did not chasten them for obedience, I chasten them for their disobedience...this principle is taught throughout the scriptures!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by bluefrog:
WILD B ...did you know that Michael has another board, Zombies, on the same subject ?
Yea , thats his style. He can't come up with a topic so he slightly spins anothers a little and post it as thou he were the originator.
Nothing new~
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bluefrog
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WILD B ...did you know that Michael has another board, Zombies, on the same subject ?
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Michael Harrison
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posted
quote:
Becausehelives sed: Quote: quote:
Christ extends his discourse farther: for he speaks not only of false prophets, who rush upon the flock to tear and devour, but of hirelings, who insinuate themselves, under fair appearances, as pastors, though they have no feeling of piety.— “though at bottom they have no feeling of the fear of God.”
There are people who elect themselves to serve God. These think God is on their side.
There are people who elect themselves to serve God. The difference is in whether they surrendered, or not. Christ has followers who recognize the value of His message, who elect themselves to carry it. They do not however recognize the value of HIS person.
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bluefrog
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BECAUSE HE LIVES...You said:
"Obedience and salvation can not be seperated from the True Gospel !!!"
Why ? Because the obedience shows visible proof of faith and the salvation is expressed in acts, made complete by what one does.
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bluefrog
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BECAUSEHELIVES... You said:
"a disobedient child that is not chasten is a bastard..."
I take it that you got this from Hebrews 12;5,7,11 but I don't read it that way.
I can think of no place where it says that.
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Eden
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oneinchrist wrote to WildB quote:
Jesus makes it clear to us by the story of the rich ruler that we cannot allow riches to come between us and Him...
I see. It is not a sin to be rich, though, right?
Abraham was rich. Isaac was rich. Jacob was rich. Esau did not do so bad for himself. To be rich is NOT A SIN.
Sure, we cannot allow "riches" to come between us and God, but we cannot allow "anything" to come between us and God.
1 Corinthians 8:2
And if any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.
I'll keep that in mind.
love, Eden
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
so right Daniel....Zacheus had money issues but Yahshua did not require him to sell all....
we are children and Yahweh our Father is child is different but each child is expected to obey... else the Father will have to chasten...
a disobedient child that is not chasten is a bastard...
obedience and salvation can not be separated from the true Gospel!!!!
So when was the last time you "Think" you were chastened?
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That is all.....
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Wild B,
Please do not make a mockery out of Jesus' words.
Jesus makes it clear to us by the story of the rich ruler that we cannot allow riches to come between us and Him and that following Him could mean that we may be required to forsake all our possessions.......especially if our possessions are our God.
It does not mean that everyone is going to Hell unless they go and immediately sell everything they possess.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Stand down~
You think a bee a good thing because it gives you honey.
But when that same bee stings , you curse it.
Repent of your sillyness.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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posted
so right Daniel....Zacheus had money issues but Yahshua did not require him to sell all....
we are children and Yahweh our Father is child is different but each child is expected to obey... else the Father will have to chasten...
a disobedient child that is not chasten is a bastard...
obedience and salvation can not be separated from the true Gospel!!!!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
Please do not make a mockery out of Jesus' words.
Jesus makes it clear to us by the story of the rich ruler that we cannot allow riches to come between us and Him and that following Him could mean that we may be required to forsake all our possessions.......especially if our possessions are our God.
It does not mean that everyone is going to Hell unless they go and immediately sell everything they possess.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by bluefrog:
Dead Works is sorta like Fire Wood is it not?
[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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bluefrog
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Dead Works is sorta like Fire Wood is it not?
If dead works are like something for the burn pile, why are we interested in that other than to get rid of it ?
Christians are to be zealous for good works.
Tit. 2:14
Those who have received God's grace are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Eph 2:10
Salvation can not be earned, but must be received as a gift, not by works, so that no one can boast. Moral and righteous acts are never a way to earn salvation, but they are fruit that salvation is expected to produce. How many bushels have you put out today?
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WildB
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Then BHL sell all that you have...
Acts.2
[44] And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
[45] And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
[46] And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
[47] Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Acts.4
[32] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Matt.19
[21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
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becauseHElives
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The Real People are those that obey Yahshua's commands...as we see as we continue to read Matthew 7 :24.
Every one, therefore, who heareth those saying of mine, and doeth them, I will compare him to a wise man, who built his house upon a rock. 25. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and struck against that house, and it did not fall: for it had been founded on a rock. 26. And every one who heareth those saying of mine, and doeth them not, shall be compared to a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. 27. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and struck against that house: and it fell, and the downfall of it was great. 28. And it happened, when Jesus had finished these sayings, that the multitudes were astonished at his doctrine. 29. For he taught them as having authority, and not as the scribes.
The True Believer can not get around obedience and Salvation... Yahshua says only the foolish person hearing does not also do!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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Indeed the Lord does know who are his and he will give them a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Overcomers are We the real People.
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becauseHElives
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WildB, you do greatly err in your dividing of the scriptures.... The Lord knoweth who are his: and, let every one who calleth on the name of Christ depart from iniquity, (2 Timothy 2:19.)
Matthew 7:21. Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord.
Christ extends his discourse farther: for he speaks not only of false prophets, who rush upon the flock to tear and devour, but of hirelings, who insinuate themselves, under fair appearances, as pastors, though they have no feeling of piety.— “though at bottom they have no feeling of the fear of God.”
This doctrine embraces all hypocrites, whatever may be their rank or station, but at present he refers particularly to pretended teachers, — “reigned and deceitful teachers.” who seem to excel others.
He not only directs his discourse to them, to rouse them from the indifference, in which they lie asleep like drunk people, but also warns believers, not to estimate such masks beyond their proper value.
In a word, he declares that, so soon as the doctrine of the Gospel shall have begun to bear fruit by obtaining many disciples, there will not only be very many of the common people who falsely and hypocritically submit to it, but even in the rank of pastors there will be the same treachery, so that they will deny by their actions and life what they profess with the mouth. — “what they teach and confess with the mouth.”
Whoever then desires to be reckoned among the disciples, must labor to devote himself, sincerely and honestly, to the exercises of a new life.
In the Gospel of Luke, it is a general reproof:
Why call you me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
But as this corruption proceeds, for the most part, from pretended teachers, and easily finds its way from them into the whole body, so, according to Matthew, our Lord expressly attacks them. To do the will of the Father not only means, to regulate their life and manners, (as philosophers talked — “as the philosophers wished to teach the world.” ) by the rule of virtues, but also to believe in Christ, according to that saying,
“This is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life,”
(John 6:40.)
These words, therefore, do not exclude faith, but presuppose it as the principle from which other good works flow.
22. Many will say to me Christ again summons hypocrites to his judgment-seat, as we showed a little ago from Luke. So long as they hold a place in his Church, they both flatter themselves and deceive others. He therefore declares, that a day is coming, when he will cleanse his barn, and separate the chaff and straw from the pure wheat.
To prophesy in the name of Christ is, to discharge the office of teacher by his authority, and, as it were, under his direction. Prophecy is here, I think, taken in a large sense, as in the fourteenth chapter of the Epistle to the Corinthians. He might have simply used the word preach, but purposely employed the more honorable appellation, in order to show more clearly, that an outward profession is nothing, whatever may be its brilliancy in the eyes of men. To do wonderful works in the name of Christ is nothing else than to perform miracles by his power, authority, command, and direction: for, though the word ὁμολογήσω, powers, is sometimes confined to one class of miracles, yet in this and many other passages it denotes every kind of miracles.
23. And then will I confess to them— “and then will I openly say to them.” By using the word ὁμολογήσω, I will confess,483483 — “the Greek word, which the Evangelist uses, literally signifies ‘I will confess to them.’“ Christ appears to allude to the vain boasting, by which hypocrites now vaunt themselves. “They indeed have confessed me with the tongue, and imagine that they have fully discharged their duty. The confession of my name is now heard aloud from their tongue. But I too will confess on the opposite side, that their profession is deceitful and false.” And what is contained in Christ’s confession? That he never reckoned them among his own people, even at the time when they boasted that they were the pillars of the church.
Depart from me. He orders those persons to go out from his presence, who had stolen, under a false title, an unjust and temporary possession of his house. From this passage in our Lord’s discourse Paul seems to have taken what he says to Timothy,
The Lord knoweth who are his: and, let every one who calleth on the name of Christ depart from iniquity, (2 Timothy 2:19.)
[/B] The former clause is intended to prevent weak minds from being alarmed or discouraged by the desertion of those who had a great and distinguished reputation:— “of any who shall have made great noise, and shall have been greatly esteemed.” for he declares that they were disowned by the Lord, though by a vain show they captivated the eyes of men. He then exhorts all those who wish to be reckoned among the disciples of Christ, to withdraw early from iniquity, that Christ may not drive them from his presence, when he shall “separate the sheep from the goats,” (Matthew 25:33.) [/B]
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Eden,
This is kinda the way I see the balance. If man commits to obeying the Lord and to being a disciple of Jesus.......then the Holy Spirit will HELP. I am not going to pretend to know the exact balance on "what God has given man the intrinsic ability to do once exposed to the love of the gospel" vs. what man cannot do without the divine assistance of the Holy Ghost". It is my thought though that if man chooses not to do what God has given him the ability to do that God will probably not entrust him with more responsibility. Responsiblity is a good thing if it is delegated by God.
Just like the verse in Proverbs.......
"A man deviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps."
With love in Christ, Daniel
Another verse come's to mind.
MATT 7 [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Sounds like they thought they were being responsible too.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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posted
quote:
Eden said...I do not think that the atoning blood of Yahshua provides a heart of action, because that leads to legalism again, I do it.
Ezekiel 11 : 19And I will give them one heart [a new heart] and I will put a new spirit within them; and I will take the stony [unnaturally hardened] heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh [sensitive and responsive to the touch of their God],(A)
20That they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances, and do them. And they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi Eden,
This is kinda the way I see the balance. If man commits to obeying the Lord and to being a disciple of Jesus.......then the Holy Spirit will HELP. I am not going to pretend to know the exact balance on "what God has given man the intrinsic ability to do once exposed to the love of the gospel" vs. what man cannot do without the divine assistance of the Holy Ghost". It is my thought though that if man chooses not to do what God has given him the ability to do that God will probably not entrust him with more responsibility. Responsiblity is a good thing if it is delegated by God.
Just like the verse in Proverbs.......
"A man deviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps."
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
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Hello, becauseHElives, greetings in this holiday season of our Lord's birth, I hope He finds you well.
You wrote quote:
True trust in the atoning Blood of Yahshua produces a heart of action in the teachings of Yahshua every time.
I do not think that the atoning blood of provides a heart of action, because that leads to legalism again, I do it.
Rather I sense that it is, "If I get out of the way and cease from my own works, then Jesus Who is IN me through the Holy Spirit IS THE ACTION instead of me.
It is no longer MY heart that produces action, but Jesus's heart that produces action in me.
Look again at what you wrote quote:
True trust in the atoning Blood of Yahshua produces a heart of action in the teachings of Yahshua every time.
I think the Old Testament is a clear testimony that WE cannot DO the teachings of Yahshua.
Not to sound irreverent, but the law was given, not that we should keep it, but that we should break it. God knew that we could not keep the law, which are the teachings of Jesus, and we cannot keep them either.
ONLY JESUS IN US CAN KEEP THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS. So it is not so much a question of the "atoning Blood of Yahshua producing [b]a heart of action in the TEACHINGS of Yahshua every time, because, the moment I try to do THAT, it leads to legalism because I am trying to do the teachings of Jesus.
It is a matter of us stepping aside and letting Jesus do His Own teachings in us, and not us doing Jesus's teachings, I think.
love, Eden
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becauseHElives
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Faith without works is dead! ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
True trust in the atoning Blood of Yahshua produces a heart of action in the teachings of Yahshua every time. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
"Good works" come through a faith that is directed into the right source......Jesus and His teachings.
"Dead works" come through a faith that is directed into any other source.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Any Faith that is not in the shed blood of Christ is a 1st class ticket to Eternal Damnation.
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oneinchrist
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"Good works" come through a faith that is directed into the right source......Jesus and His teachings.
"Dead works" come through a faith that is directed into any other source.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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by Cornelius R. Stam
Twice in Paul's epistles he refers to "dead works". In Hebrews 6:1 he writes about "repentance from dead works", while in Hebrews 9:14 he declares that the blood of Christ avails to "purge the conscience from dead works to serve the living God".
Mark well, these references are not to wicked works but to dead works. These "dead works" are the so-called "good works" (whether moral or ceremonial) which men did -- and still do -- to make themselves acceptable to God. They are "dead" because they are not the product of regeneration or spiritual life, but the mere attempt on the part of unregenerate sinners to justify themselves before God.
Paul himself, once zealously religious, but wholly unsaved, had to repudiate his "dead works" and count them "loss" to find salvation in Christ, through whom alone he could produce good works which God could accept. (See Philippians 3:4-9).
This is why he later declared by divine inspiration: "For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works..." (Eph.2:8-10).
"Dead works" are not only unacceptable to God, but an evil substitute for the faith He desires, "for without faith it is impossible to please God" (Heb.11:6). But "he that believeth on the Son of God hath life" and this life is bound to bear fruit -- the good works with which God is truly pleased.
The difference between the "good works" of the unregenerate man and the "good works" of a true believer, then, is that the former are "dead works" while the latter are the precious fruit of life possessed.
No man can please God while he denies the truth of His Word or rejects His Son, so graciously given to die on the cross as our Saviour. To try to win His favor by "good works" while rejecting Christ is like sending a gift to a man whose beloved son you spurn and despise.
"The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hands. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. And he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:35,36).
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That is all.....
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