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Topic: DEATH
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bluefrog
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posted
EDEN...Did I give you all the answers you were questioning? Caretaker gave a lot of good info also.
If not, lets tie up the loose ends.
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by bluefrog:
Hey CARETAKER...Lotsa good stuff. Thanks.
God bless you Bro;
You are sure welcome. I have about twenty pages but I thought to give the condensed version.
One will find that the Roman Catholic Catechism and the Westminster Catechism, and those who have a strong Catholic tradition teach one resurrection of the, and they change the term "great and small" to read "just and unjust".
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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bluefrog
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posted
Hey CARETAKER...Lotsa good stuff. Thanks.
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Caretaker
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posted
The "Bema seat" (or judgment seat) was an elevated seat, located in Corinth. At this seat in the square, Roman magistrates would sit and administer justice. Athletes may also have appeared here and received rewards for having distinguished themselves.
If a person is unsaved and dies in their sin, they will be judged at the "great white throne judgment" following the Millennium. If a person is a born-again believer in Jesus, they will be judged at the "judgment seat of Christ." Salvation is not an issue at this judgment. Their sins have already been forgiven. A person might then ask, how will we be judged? and for what will we be judged?
At this judgment, we must give an account of our life and what we did or did not do for the Lord. The believer's service to God will be reviewed and rewarded. For his lack of service or doing certain things, he will suffer loss. We will be held responsible for the things we did in our body. Every hidden thing will be made known. Every secret thing we said will be proclaimed; nothing will be hid. All believers must appear before this judgment seat.
2 Cor. 5:
10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Romans 14:
10: But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11: For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12: So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Some people will receive crowns in heaven as a special kind of reward for their sacrificial living while on earth.
The twenty-four elders seated around God's throne wear golden crowns and white garments (Revelation 4:4).
While we don't know the identity of these individuals or even exactly what the crowns represent, we do know these people overcame intense difficulties. The Greek word used for "crown" in this passage is stephanos: a victor's crown.
Five different crowns are mentioned in Scripture:
The imperishable crown for those who exhibit disciplined lives (1 Corinthians 9:2527).
The crown of rejoicing for those who lead others to Christ (1 Thessalonians 2:1920, Philippians 4:1).
The crown of righteousness for those who love his appearing (2 Timothy 4:Cool.
The crown of glory for those who faithfully shepherd the flock (1 Peter 5:24).
The crown of life for those who overcome spiritual battles (James 1:12, Revelation 2:10).
The above list is probably more suggestive than it is exhaustive. God may hand out crowns to many other faithful believers and for many other purposes. These crowns won't be awarded so we can show off our earthly accomplishments. Nor will they be for the purpose of making a fashion statement. I believe that these crowns signify different positions and assignments throughout eternity.
1 Thess. 4:
14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Rev. 20:
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
John saw thrones and they sat upon them, AND HE SAW the souls of them who had been beheaded and they lived and reigned.
The dead in Christ whom the Lord brings with Him, and we which are alive and remain caught-up to EVER be with the Lord!!!!!
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
THE SECOND RESURRECTION:
11: And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
There are no LIVING before the Great White Throne!!!!!!
None of the Righteous Dead in Christ before the Great White Throne!!!!
John 14:
2: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3: And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Paul says that to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord.
There are two resurrections, the resurrection of the physical body of the dead in Christ, those written in the Lamb's Book of Life wherein imperfection puts on perfection, corruption puts on incorruption and the RIGHTEOUS stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ for their rewards.
The second resurrection is of the damned where death and hell deliver up their dead to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment.
1 Cor. 15:
42: So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Thess. 4:
14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Rev. 20:
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The second resurrection of the unrighteous dead who are shown their names ABSENT from the Lamb's Book of Life:
Revelation 20:
11: And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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bluefrog
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posted
![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif) Hi EDEN !
I will attempt to answer or respond to your comments. First, you thanked me for my vote of confidence in you. Eden, it is not a matter of confidence in these discussions. I have a lot of confidence in you even though I don't know you.
Perhaps I can answer most of your questions by providing some scripture and it should tie it all together.
1 Cor. 15:36-38, 44 and 50 Sorry about how it starts off...Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened (made alive) except to die (it's dead). 37)And that which thou sowest, thou sowest NOT THAT BODY THAT SHALL BE, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat or some other grain 38)But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body. 44)It is sown a natural body, it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY (Note: remember this) 50)Now this I say brethern, that FLESH AND BLOOD (mortal body) CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Rev. 20:11-15 11)And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from Whose face the earth and heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12)And I saw the dead (Mortal bodies), small and great stand before God; and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works, 13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works. 14)And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This the second death. 15)And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
2 Cor 5:1-10 tells about Christians judgement, which is different than that of the unbelievers. The Christians sins are washed away by Jesus. This is a judgement of works.
In case you are not aware, in most cemetaries the tomb stones face the east. It used to be the belief that when Christ returns from the east that the ones asleep will rise up to meet him. They thought the body would somehow raise up all new and fresh. That has since been put to rest but you might find interesting.
Even with all the scripture and study of translations, etc, this subject is still hard to handle. Trying to fix in our mind what it will all be like is like trying to figure what God will look like and the whole new world, etc.
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote quote:
EDEN...You said: I understand physical death, but what is spiritual death ?
bluefrog's answer: I don't think you understand either by reading your comments.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. You continued that Eden said quote:
You said: That presumably means that their spirits have returned to their bodies so they can stand before the judgement seat.
bluefrog's answer: No, sorry. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Your body is placed in the ground and never used again.
So you are saying that the spirit of a Christian goes to be with the Lord and his body returns to dust and is never used again, right?
And are you saying that the spirit of a NON-Christian goes to another divide and his body returns to dust and is never used again?
And are you saying that the "dead" Christian comes IN SPIRIT (and not in body) to receive his rewards and his former body is no longer involved or regathered to be him again?
And are you saying that the "dead" NON-Christian also comes IN SPIRIT to the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive his punishment and his former body is also no longer involved or regathered to be him again?
If that is true, why would the Bible speak of resurrection? Even the body that Jesus came back with after His ascension was a body that could eat fish and was a body about which Jesus could say to Thomas, "Put here your finger, and be not faithless"?
John 20
25 The other disciples therefore said to him {Thomas), "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, Except I shall see in His hands the print of the nails and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into His side, I will not believe.
John 20:27
Then said He (Jesus) to Thomas, Reach here your finger and behold My hands; and reach here your hand, and thrust it into My side: and be not faithless, but believing.
But you kind of explained it here yourself quote:
Believers have died their only death. Death where is your sting? They will return to earth in their new spiritual body with Christ.
Okay, fair enough, that would mean that they would not need to take up their former body again.
You continued, quote:
The ones going to hell will stand before the Great White throne, face God's wrath and the spiritual body will be destroyed and hating it all of a sudden.
Okay, their spiritual body will be destroyed. Do you have any scripture for that? I ask because the Bible says, that "the spirit returns to God who gave it"? Where does it say that their spirit will be destroyed?
thanks, Eden
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bluefrog
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EDEN...You said: I understand physical death, but what is spiritual death ?
Answer: I don't think you understand either by reading your comments.
You said: That presumably means that their spirits has returned to their bodies so they can stand before the judgement seat.
Answer: No, sorry. To be abscent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Your body is placed in the ground and never used again. When you die your spirit leaves. You might say that all spiritual bodies are on hold. As a Christian, one way of explaining it is that you are under the throne of God, another call it being in Abarhams bossom. Those who have not turned to the Lord are in another divide. Believers have died their only death. Death where is thy sting? They will return to earth in their new spiritual body with Christ. The ones going to hell will stand before the Great White throne, face God's wrath and the spiritual body will be destroyed and hating it all of a sudden. As explained in Hebrew, it will be like putting a lamb over the fire and it burning putting off smoke which disappears to nothing.
All memory of those will be erased. The believers will be judged but for their works. They are also in spiritual bodies. No flesh bodies are allowed in heaven.
The spirit as explained above, the spirit of the lost, will not return to God. It will be gone for ever and ever, and not remembered.
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Eden
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hello, bluefrog. You wrote quote:
The biblical concept of death is complex and significant. Biological death is not natural but a distortion of God's original plan, introduced into the universe as a consequence of human sin.
There is also a spiritual death and some will have one death but some will have two.
[...] We can also discuss those who never come to know Jesus and die the second death. The second death of course is a spiritual death.
I understand physical death, but what is spiritual death?
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.
The Bible does say that all, both Christians and non-Christians, alive and dead, will be resurrected to stand before the judgment seat.
That presumably means that their spirit has returned into their bodies so that they can stand before the judgment seat.
Then all who are not Christ's are thrown into the lake of fire, which is the second death:
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Christians will retain their spirits:
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death has no power ...
So presumably, when the resurrected non-Christians die in the lake of fire, their spirit returns to God again who gave it.
Is that what you mean by spiritual death?
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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1 Corinthians 15:26
THE LAST ENEMY THAT SHALL BE DESTROYED IS DEATH.
The biblical concept of death is complex and significant. Biological death is not natural but a distortion of God's original plan, introduced into the universe as a consequence of human sin. There is also a spiritual death and some will have one death but some will have two.
Death is an enemy of mankind, but it will be destroyed when Jesus returns.
Something that might be of interest to discuss is the death process from physical death to our arrival into heaven. We can also discuss those who never come to know Jesus and die the second death. The second death of course is a spiritual death.
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