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Topic: The word and dependency
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Eden
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posted
dear oneinchrist, which verse are you referring to with your, "If any man does not hate his"........?
thanks, Eden
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bluefrog
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posted
HATE ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
In this day and age the word hate typically means a negative emotion. In Scriptures, the emphasis is often on volition. Hate means to reject something.
In Lk 26:14, Mt 10:37 and Jn 12:25 Jesus' call to hate one's family or your life in this world is a command, not to hate emotionally, but to reject anything claiming a higher allegiance than God. Examples would be worshiping idols, active sin nature, violence, failure to keep the covenant, evil.
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
Offended family member? Agreeable! However, it is a matter of instruction. If when Jesus called to the Zebedees to leave their nets and follow Him, and the father of the Zebedees had said, "Now come here son, and reason this out. Weigh this, and consider that...." Is this not what Jesus means? It is a question of whether one is obedient to Christ, or another. And if one is obedient to another, how can he learn of Christ? He cannot. He forfeits. And since we discovered in those other posts that discipleship means, 'to learn of' (I think you said onein), then it is self explanatory.
Certainly, to hate, does not mean to hate their person. It means to not be swayed by their contradiction of the Spirit of God. So it is what you said.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
hello, brother oneinchrist, you wrote quote:
Hi Michael,
I think that there can be a right and a wrong way to look at the passage that you give....."If any man does not hate his"...
I am quite convinced that Jesus isn't saying "I command you to hate your father, mother, brother, sister, and if you don't you cannot be my disciple...rather I am lead to believe Jesus is saying that if we are not willing to continue to follow Him because of an offended family member we cannot be considered His disciple.
RE the part of your quote that I bolded, I agree with you that the word "hate father or mother or brother or sister or (fill in the blank family member) is no more than an "offended family member".
Be blessed in Jesus,
Eden
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Michael,
I think that there can be a right and a wrong way to look at the passage that you give....."If any man does not hate his"........
I am quite convinced that Jesus isnt saying "I command you to hate your father, mother, brother, sister, and if you dont you cannot be my disciple..........more rather I am lead to believe Jesus is saying that if we are not willing to continue to follow Him because of an offended family member we cannot be considered His disciple.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
I remember some previous posts questioning the meaning of discipleship, but this occurs to me after the fact: Jesus said, (Luk 14:26) "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." In other words, he cannot 'learn of me' if he does not meet these conditions (though he may have crossed the threshold of 'believing'). Therefore he remains ignorant, in part. For God has more to show (reveal) to those who have made the initial confession of believing.
This ties in well with the guy who received one talent.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Copper25,
Its nice to meet you. Greeting to you in the Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus.
After reading your post it reminded me of one of the strongest inner beliefs/convictions that I presently have...........that being......
That there are many people who believe in Jesus for who He is and what He has done......but it ends there.......... for some reason they do not embrace the Words and teachings of Jesus the same way. Though some Christians think that it is an assumed thing that we would embrace both Jesus and His teachings......it is evident that is not what is happening in real life.
The truth is .....is that if we are a Christian then we are a disciple of Jesus. There was not in the past and never will be........"Thank you Lord for forgiving my sins.......Is it Ok if I put the discipleship portion on lawaway until a later time?"
In the book of acts, anyone that was baptized in the Name of the Lord immediately entered into discipleship and was brought under the instruction of the gospel teachings of Jesus. Since we have strayed so much from the model the church gave to us in the book of Acts........how could we expect to see anything different in this world today?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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bluefrog
unregistered
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posted
OH !
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Eden
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posted
hello, bluefrog, you wrote quote:
My Friends....He is talking to us...the choir.
Of Course the message is for non believers but do you see any here?
Yes, I see any here. This bbs averages 75 guests. Yes, there are some of us who are brave enough, or just so inclined, to post Topics and to post answers.
But there are many others who are more timid, for whatever reason, and they are too timid, or just not inclined, to post a Topic or answer a post.
And bluefrog, among the non-posters, there are probably some unbelievers and some wanta-be-a-believer kind of unbelievers, and other kinds of unbelievers "just checking out this Christianity thing".
And God sends some people to this bbs "just to get a one-time anwer to a current problem they were having and had prayed about", and God sent them here, they got their answer, and they went on with their life.
bluefrog, we do not know who exactly is sitting in the pews of this bbs, but:
Luke 15:10
Likewise I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.
And as for your comment that Copper25 is "preaching to the choir" ...uhh, aren't we all preaching to the choir too?
Acts 18:23
And after he had spent some time there, he departed, and went over all the country of Galatia and Phrygia in order, strengthening all the disciples.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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posted
My Friends....He is talking to us...the choir.
Of Course the message is for non believers but do you see any here ?
After he goes through his disortation he closes with Jesus knocking on the door making an invitation.
Well, If I am Wrong blame it on someone else, but not me. lol
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Glory belongs to Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7432
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posted
I agree Michael and I give the post by Copper25 a ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) up. For it's for the unbelievers (for a call to salvation) as well as the believers (to come up where we are lacking).
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If you ever get so hungry for God that you are in pursuit of Him, He will do things for you that He won't do for anybody else.
Posts: 112 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2008
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
Actually he is not preaching to the choir, if I may. The message is the same, at least, the wording is the same as that which is preached to sinners, but it takes on a different meaning somewhere along the way after we are saved.
Because there is a 'breaking into' wherein we 'press' into the Kingdom of Heaven. And when we get saved, more often than not, people take for granted what they have, and do not realize being 'changed from glory to glory'. In other words, there is an outer court and an inner court: Then there is the Holy of Holies. And to be status quo is addressed in the parable of the talents.
But there are people who think that when they 'got it', they got it. But even though they are right, their understanding is short of realizing the full implication, and therefore their understanding needs to 'get it'. In other words, the understanding needs to abound more. And that is part of a problem, for people say, "What more do I need to understand?" What is worse, that becomes their attitude.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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bluefrog
unregistered
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posted
I detect a burr under your blanket.
There are very few unbelievers on this board so I think you are preaching to the choir.
If you are trying to reach a nonbeliever, you might want to choose another way.
Not many will argue with your thoughts though.
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Copper25
Advanced Member
Member # 7464
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posted
2 Corinthians 6:7) By the word of truth, by the power of God, By the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left
By the word of truth- By the word of truth, God’s word we can have victory in our lives, overcoming sin and the enemy. But how can we do this if we lean to our own understanding? People in today’s world have butchered the truth of God with false teachings that pose a threat to the well being of the person hearing. People tend to stray from obedience to God which is the main key to success. Teaching people that living in sin is acceptable in any way is lying. Let’s face it, God called us to be free from sin, not to be living in it. This truth is illustrated all through out the Bible. “ if ye love me, ye shall keep my commandments ”, “ this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not grievous ”, “ O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always ”. It is obvious that there is a high expectancy of obedience God wants from us. There is no in-between. How can one be obedient and disobedient at the same time? You can’t, but too many people act like they can and it will be acceptable in the eyes of God.
by the power of God - How many people don’t take in to account just how powerful God is. He has created the heavens and the earth, he parted the Rea Sea, tore down the walls of Jericho, set on fire mount Sinai at the entrance of his presence. How much more easily can He help us with our sin when we lean to him. A crumb off the plate, that’s what it is to God. Isaiah 41:28) Hast thou not known? Hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? There is no searching his understanding)) People don’t realize just how powerful the grace of God is. Virtually wiping out presumptuous sin and sparking the influence of righteousness upon us at the same time. You either gain sin and lose righteousness, or you gain righteousness and lose sin, but you can’t live with both. “ when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness ” and when a person is enslaved to any from of presumptuous sin, how then can they be “ servants of righteousness ”. We aren’t perfect, but that never justifies sinful behavior. In Numbers 15, presumptuous sin was equated with despising the word, how much more does that apply in today’s crooked society were morality is rare and the element of righteousness, scarce, even shunned. Legalist, Legalist, people shout when some one brings up the straight truth of the Bible. People can’t and choose not to handle the truth but are willing to accept every other thing that crosses the ear vain jangling, babbling, its all the same, that which is not the truth of God and leads to destruction. Its easy to go there but it is hard to enter in to life. “ through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God ”, yet people think there is a shortcut or quick way to salvation, no, they are deceiving themselves. It takes discipline, pray, and focus toward God for guidance, in his word, in his truth, and in his way, not in yours or mine, and that is the error, when guidance and judgment come from our own heart which is “ deceitful above all things ”. So lean to God and not yourselves, this is the key, now open the door. Revelation 3:20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and him with me
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
Posts: 262 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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