|
Author
|
Topic: Making disciples
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
When witnessing I will find out what the person thinks of themself. I will start asking them questions leading to their death and heaven. Next, ask if they will go to heaven and their answer will lead me to the next issue.
Ask a few questions more from the 10 commandments to see if they are murderers, adulterers, thieves, etc... Call them what they are, ask them about going in front of a judge what would happen to them. Who would get them off? Explain that there is someone who has already gotten them off but that they need to repent, of which I explain in some detail, and then finish the details, etc.
Repentance is very important when witnessing.
IP: Logged | 
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Good morning Eden,
I noticed that you may have thought that when I used the word "preaching" that I was suggesting an activity done in front of several people or a crowd. To answer your question.........To the individuals that I witness to(which is usually in more of a private setting) I do share with them that the bible calls us all to repentance......and that it is important that we do not look at sin the same after we have heard of what God has done to save us from it.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
WildB wrote quote:
what the he ll are you talking about
And scythewieldor wrote: quote:
It is interesting that the time between the resurrection and the fall of Jerusalem and the time in the wilderness were about the same.)
There was a wilderness generation that did not enter into the promised land because of unbelief. That did not prevent their children from entering.
Yes, that IS interesting that the interval was about the same. It is my understanding from studying history that this period from about 30 A.D. to 70 A.D. was filled with rapacious people and sicarii who would cut your throat for a shekel, type of thing.
Exodus 16:2
And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness.
(not that I could have done any better...)
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hi, oneinchrist, you wrote to Eden quote:
I respect how you feel about this topic. I believe that the temptation to yielding to fleshly pride is a constant battle for everyone of us as we learn to walk in a spirit of humility. Can you see yourself preaching about repentance?
Actually I have never stood in front of a group of people and "preached repentance to them". Have you? For me any speaking of Christianity to others tends to occur in "as we go along during the day" type of settings. And I tend to go more in the direction of the "taste and see that the LORD is good" kind of preaching and teaching than "repentance", for example.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear WildB,
Resorting to vain words, even veiled ones, does not help your case.
The letter written to the Hebrews let's us know very well that there were some Israelites who were not going to make it into that which was promised because of unbelief.
Does that mean no Israelite made it into rest?
Of course not. Thousands did.
quote:
He 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7 ¶ Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
The believing Hebrews were the house of Christ if they held their faith unto the end. We know they did because they left Jerusalem fleeing persecution.
(It is interesting that the time between the resurrection and the fall of Jerusalem and the time in the wilderness were about the same.)
There was a wilderness generation that did not enter into the promised land because of unbelief. That did not prevent their children from entering.
quote:
He 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
There were Hebrews who believed and there were Hebrews who did not believe. At the end of forty years of resisting the testimony of Jesus, the unbelievers of the Sinai covenant died without entering the rest. However, there were Hebrews who made it to Zion.
quote:
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Are you, WildB, ready to say that Israelites did not come to the land God had promised to them in spite of the passage above.
God counts success with Israelites in "remnants" and "seeds".
quote:
Ro 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
This was the fulfillment of a prophecy by Isaiah concerning Judah and Jerusalem in Is., ch. 1. The success of God in Judah and Jerusalem was "a seed".
quote:
He 4:1 ¶ Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Notice how often this writer to the Hebrews makes the point that individual Hebrews could fail to enter into rest. However, he never loses the assurance that some Hebrews will enter into rest.
I would like you to remember the words of the Israelite, James, when the Israelites, Paul and Barnabas, came to Jerusalem to bring some resolution to the question that was brought up by Israelites in Antioch over the question of the law of Moses. In that event, the Israelite, Peter, was being seduced by the whole circumcision thing. And, even Barnabas was having trouble with it.
When Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem, they encountered a whole bunch of Israelites who believed.
The twelve apostles judged in this instance over Israelites and this was the sentence of that Israelite, James.
quote:
Ac 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
No matter how you think of the converted nationals of Antioch, James, clearly, saw the tabernacle of David as set up, again. It was a place where the "residue of men might seek after the Lord".
So did ALL the other Israelites who were in on the decision.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
Dear Believers,
The preaching of the Kingdom of God was wildly successful in Jerusalem.
What the he ll are you talking about?
Acts.7
[1] Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
[2] And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
[3] And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
[4] Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
[5] And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
[6] And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
[7] And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
[8] And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.
[9] And the patriarchs, moved with envy, sold Joseph into Egypt: but God was with him,
[10] And delivered him out of all his afflictions, and gave him favour and wisdom in the sight of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and he made him governor over Egypt and all his house.
[11] Now there came a dearth over all the land of Egypt and Chanaan, and great affliction: and our fathers found no sustenance.
[12] But when Jacob heard that there was corn in Egypt, he sent out our fathers first.
[13] And at the second time Joseph was made known to his brethren; and Joseph's kindred was made known unto Pharaoh.
[14] Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.
[15] So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our fathers,
[16] And were carried over into Sychem, and laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money of the sons of Emmor the father of Sychem.
[17] But when the time of the promise drew nigh, which God had sworn to Abraham, the people grew and multiplied in Egypt,
[18] Till another king arose, which knew not Joseph.
[19] The same dealt subtilly with our kindred, and evil entreated our fathers, so that they cast out their young children, to the end they might not live.
[20] In which time Moses was born, and was exceeding fair, and nourished up in his father's house three months:
[21] And when he was cast out, Pharaoh's daughter took him up, and nourished him for her own son.
[22] And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.
[23] And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
[24] And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended him, and avenged him that was oppressed, and smote the Egyptian:
[25] For he supposed his brethren would have understood how that God by his hand would deliver them: but they understood not.
[26] And the next day he shewed himself unto them as they strove, and would have set them at one again, saying, Sirs, ye are brethren; why do ye wrong one to another?
[27] But he that did his neighbour wrong thrust him away, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge over us?
[28] Wilt thou kill me, as thou diddest the Egyptian yesterday?
[29] Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.
[30] And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
[31] When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
[32] Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abrham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.
[33] Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.
[34] I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
[35] This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
[36] He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
[37] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
[39] To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
[40] Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
[41] And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
[42] Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
[43] Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
[44] Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
[45] Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
[46] Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
[47] But Solomon built him an house.
[48] Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
[49] Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
[50] Hath not my hand made all these things?
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
[52] Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
[53] Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
[54] When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
[55] But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
[56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
[57] Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
[58] And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
[59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
[60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
The preaching of the Kingdom of God was wildly successful in Jerusalem.
quote:
Ac 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Obviously, you are mistaken about the regenerated twelve tribe nation of Israel over which the twelve apostles sat in judgement.
quote:
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Do not think that this letter was to any one but the twelve tribes over which the twelve apostles sat in judgement. Terms of real judgement completely permeate this letter. James knew what his job was, and who his audience was.
As James addresses the twelve tribes, he can not be speaking to the Jews. They were not scattered, yet. Their headquarters was still in Jerusalem.
However, the converts of that nation were being scattered like crazy.
quote:
Ac 8:1 ¶ And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
4 ¶ Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
Since this scattering began before the revival in Samaria, this scattering had to be Israelites of Judean origen.
This is the beginning of the fulfilment of the prophecy of Zechariah.
quote:
Zec 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
Dear Believers, and WildB,
A person has left the discipline of the Son of God if he refuses to teach the nations to observe the things Jesus commanded His disiples.
Let me get this straight. The Believers and wildb have left the discipline of the Son of God if we don't feed The Kingdom Commission to the Nations.
Well, Jesus did indeed command this to his disciples at that time but they were unable to even get past Jerusalem . They kinda got stuck there.
So please tell the baseball fans HOW, If the Nation of Israel rejected The Davidic kingdom then from this Commission of Christ to the Apostles, it is somehow going to be made right on all nations Now?
And even more so, to be following this Kingdom Commission you should be over there in Jerusalem and not on some BBS board.
Please prayerfully learn how to rightly divide the Word of Truth before posting again.
Luke.24
[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers, and WildB,
A person has left the discipline of the Son of God if he refuses to teach the nations to observe the things Jesus commanded His disiples.
quote:
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
Ro 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
The apostles DID teach the nations to observe the things whatsoever Jesus had commanded them. They got it written down and the Holy Spirit has crafted the endurance of their work in Christ.
When I testify, I let people know that I believe - that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God crucified for the sins of men, resurrected from the dead, and Lord of all,
- that He is the Word of God,
- that He taught us to fear God, to love God, and to love men in a self-sacrificial way, and
- that we who trust in Him must let His words be mixed with faith in our hearts resulting in a change of behaviour.
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Good morning Eden,
I respect how you feel about this topic. I believe that the temptation to yielding to fleshly pride is a constant battle for every one of us as we learn to walk in a spirit of humility. Can you see yourself preaching about repentance? It is a predominant theme in the book of Acts (which is a model for the church), but Christians have a tendency to leave that out because they believe it shows pride.
All in all, I would say that it depends on the way that it is preached/taught.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Regarding the title of this Topic, "Making disciples", I do not really think in terms of "making disciples" at all. I tend to only think in terms of "preaching" or "teaching" or "sharing about the Bible" and "making the Bible taste so good that others want to try it", but I never think in terms of "making disciples".
Although I recognize that "making disciples" is talked about in the Bible, at the same time I feel that the phrase "making disciples" can promote pride in a Christian who now thinks of himself as "so accomplished that he now is great enough to 'make disciples'."
The heart and mind are desperately sly, so I think it is much safer to think in terms of "preaching" or "teaching" or "sharing about the Bible" and "making the Bible taste so good that others want to try it", rather than that I am "making disciples".
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Wild B,
Commissioners of apostleship??? What is that supposed to mean?? Please explain.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Jesus' command in the Great Commission was to go out and make disciples. Does anyone agree that when we witness to the unbeliever that we should be making it clear to them that Jesus' calls us to be one of His disciples by putting ourselves under His authority and subject to His teachings and commands......
Or are there some of you out there that do not believe that it would matter because it is not a salvation issue?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Paul, by the divine commission of Christ, said we should be good STEWARDS of the Gospel of Grace.
NOT COMMISSIONERS OF APOSTLESHIP.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
When I preach and teach:
I feel gooder n' snuff and not half as dusty.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
When we preach and/or teach, do we have "great joy"?
Luke 2:10
And the angel said to them, Do not be afraid; for, look, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Philemon 1:6
That the communication of your faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and be always ready to give an ANSWER to every man who asks you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
oneinchrist, it is not so much even an issue of "preaching" or "witness", but of "someone ASKING US what the reason is for the hope that is in us", which is kind of the "reverse" of preaching and teaching without being asked about our hope first.
But in any case, the more we ourselves show that these tidings are OF GREAT JOY and the more we have Jesus in us, and the more we know what we have in Christ, the more likely it becomes that "our joy will increase" and that "someone WILL ask us" too.
Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 15
32 That I may come to you with joy by the will of God, and may with you be refreshed.
2 Corinthians 1
24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith you stand.
2 Corinthians 2
14 Now thanks be to God, who always causes us to triumph in Christ, and makes manifest the savor of his knowledge by us in every place.
Psalm 34:8
O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man who trusts in Him.
If we think to make some disciples, it showing that the LORD is good, when we preach and teach to make some disciples?
How is it going with us?
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
Daniel...One more thought....
You can not save anyone. (I know you know this but stay with me) After witnessing to someone, thank them for listening and let it go. You will then turn the transformation over to the listner and the Holy Spirit. Do not dispare if you find that your listner ignored your invitation.
It's like the man said...For every No you get you are one step closer to a Yes. Your job is to make the Introduction not Save the listner.
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
Daniel..Yes, it is a good thing to explain why you are speaking to someone about their salvation. You can and should make it very easy for them to understand though, and refrain from quoating scriptures or trying to make a big impression.
Just get the message to them that you are concerned about them even if you don't know them.
If they are not a Christian, just tell them that you are and that someone in your past discussed this with you and now you are trying to share what you have learned with them.
IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Daniel that's the difference between the true and the false gospel....it's the reason the Apostle Paul said examine yourselves if you are really a true believer with real faith that saves!
if there is no repentance there is no salvation...
with true repentance comes obedience...
that is why Yahshua said only a few would be saved!
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Jesus' command in the Great Commission was to go out and make disciples. Does anyone agree that when we witness to the unbeliever that we should be making it clear to them that Jesus' calls us to be one of His disciples by putting ourselves under His authority and subject to His teachings and commands......
Or are there some of you out there that do not believe that it would matter because it is not a salvation issue?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
