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Author Topic: The anti-Christ
Kindgo
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quote:
even those in the book of Revelation, are somewhere explained in the Bible elsewhere.

The old prophet Daniel tells us about the book Revelation [happyhappy]

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Eden
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hello, brother oneinchrist, I thank you for being such a considerate person. Regarding figurative language, I think that (almost) every symbol and figure or shadow of things to come, even those in the book of Revelation, are somewhere explained in the Bible.

That is, the more one knows of the Bible, the more one is able to solve the figurative language and symbols and shadow of things to come. As Dr. Eby once said on TBN: "Jesus turned to Dr. Eby and said, "Haven't you read the Book?"

love, Eden
"whenever you need somebody..." [Bible]

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oneinchrist
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Hi Eden,
I was thinking the other day about why I believe that Christians can hold such different views about end times. I believe that some Christians make a literal application on every word in the book of Revelation. I have a tendency towards both a literal and symbolic application. For ex: I have a hard time believing that there will literally be like giant locusts and scorpions tormenting men. I think that it may be more of a figurative language to signify some sort of spiritual woe. Think about this for a second. When Daniel received some of the visions that he received he needed to receive an explanation for them otherwise he didnt really understand them. I think the book of Revelation is similar to that in some aspects, where we have the vision that John received, but not a follow-up explanation for each and every vision.

I am sure that by how literal or symbolic(figurative) we may view Revelation it will have a bearing on what end-time view we will have a tendency towards.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Eden
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oneinchrist was wondering...Do people worship the anti-Christ because he is ruthless or because he is persuasive?

Probably ruthless and persuasive.

Revelation 13
12 And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them who dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

14 And he deceives them who dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them who dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast which had the wound by a sword, but did live.

Satan, and thus the anti-christ, is ruthless and persuasive:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them who do not believe, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I'm glad I have escaped his kingdom:

Colossians 1:13
Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son.

love, Eden
"so help me God"

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Betty Louise
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Well, you are right. I thought it was little angel wings, but I can be alittle devil sometimes. [Eek!]
But the angel wings or bigger so maybe I am more good then bad. [Big Grin]
God bless you.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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oneinchrist
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lol, cute, but kinda looks like shes got little horns on her head.
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Betty Louise
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Daniel,

How about this one?
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Betty Louise
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Daniel,

I had a computer crashed and lost all my aviators.
I can't remember where I even got it. You know how old people can be about being forgetful.
It is pleasure talking with you.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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oneinchrist
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Hi Betty,
Thank you for the response. I am happy to hear that the move back to Texas worked out well for you guys. Hey, why didnt you put your Texas Betty Boop avatar back up then, lol?
I am also happy that we do agree on the most important part of our faith.......and that is who Jesus is and what He means to us. Though we do have disagreements, I do think it can be beneficial to be patient with each other and walk through disagreements because we never know what we can learn from each other.
Some of the things I have shared with you have come from listening to others views which have had effects on my view.
I know that you are a person who believes in erring on the side of caution......so I think that we also share that in common. In fact, if I remember right, you had replied to a post in reference to the highly controversial Hebrews language. Your advice to others was....."It wouldnt be a good idea to see how much sin you can get away with", and I remember replying back to you by saying that I had agreed with you that it would be best to err on the side of caution.

Keep the faith Betty. Praise God.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Betty Louise
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Good Morning Daniel,

I am from Texas and we actually moved back to Texas in July. We lived in Washington State and we loved the area. It is so beautiful. But homes in Washington State are so very very expensive. A trailer house with just the size lot to hold a trailer and a drive way was going for 250 thousand dollars. Hubby is on a fixed income and that is just not going to happen. We really did not want to move back but hubby is 59 and I am 56 and we got tired of throwing rent money away.

God has blessed us since we moved. My son lives with us and he helps us. Because of health reasons, neither one of us can drive any distance so my son takes us the VA hospital and shopping out of our area. My daughter and her family rented the house behind us. Her landlord let her take down part of the fence between us so we can just walk back and forth between the yards. My son in law runs his own computer web design company from home and he has hired my son so they work together from both places. God is so good!!

We got back in the Baptist Church were we were members for 15 years and we still have our Pastor who we love.

So all in all we have been blessed.

I love the fact that I have so many Christin friends on this board and I look forward to seeing you all face to face in Heaven.

We need to remember that although we all do not always agree on everything, we all agree that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and we all look forward to the day Jesus sounds the trumpet to call us home in the rapture.

Have a blessed day.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Kindgo
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Hi Daniel, No


I know it sounds circular, but you confirm your interpretation against other Scripture. Either it all works together or it all falls apart.

It depends on 'rightly dividing the Word of God'. That takes time and study and good instruction.

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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oneinchrist
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Hi Kindgo,
Wouldnt you agree that interpreting Revelation Chapter 4 to be the "rapture of the church"
would be a private interpretation of scripture?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Kindgo
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Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation: Even in Peter’s day, enemies of Jesus were twisting the prophecies, giving them personal and bizarre meanings so as to exclude Jesus from their fulfillment. But Peter says that prophecy is not of any private interpretation, but its meaning is evident and can be confirmed by others.

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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oneinchrist
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I believe I have figured out the reason for the differences in viewpoints on end-times, and I realize that is just the way that it is going to be.
We differ on what we visualize "time of great tribulation" to signify and we also differ on our view of anti-Christ. With those differences alone we will already end up with differences in how we see the sequence of events play out in the end of time.

The only thing that I would like to re-iterate is that if there are those who are not true believers today, but who hold the position that "if there is a God, and if God is loving, He will always give a second chance"........The truth is that they could be sadly mistaken, not about Gods loving character, but about not understanding that there must be a final judgement that comes from a Holy God .......this time now may be the only second chance they have....and after the coming of Jesus the only purpose that may be fullfilled is the preparing of the unbeliever for the final battle by the further hardening of their hearts. Believe what you want to believe, but I caution you, be careful what you tell others because some may think to themselves, "Well if I find out what that Betty says is true and all these people disappear off the face of the earth, then I will believe in God." That is what I am talking about Betty, after Jesus returns it may already be too late for them to change their minds. Lets be confident in the coming of Jesus for it is accepting the sure promise of our Lord, but be careful with interpretations of Revelation. For there are many interpretations and some could have implications that we may not be aware of if we cling to them with our whole heart and share them as a fact with others. Thank you for the fellowship Betty. You are the former Texas Betty, right? The one who moved to Washington State?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Betty Louise
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I do not believe the tribulation has begun. There will people saved after the rapture, but they will die for their faith. The Church will leave earth before the tribulation.
I believe we are living in the last days.
Have a blessed day.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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oneinchrist
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Hi Betty,
I certainly agree with you that Rev 16 has not transpired yet. Believers are not appointed to wrath.
1 Thess 1:10 And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come

I just do not agree that Rev. 4 depicts the future rapture event. I believe that Chapter 14 vs. 14-15 would appear more likely to depict a rapture........yes, this would then have to mean that either the great trib. has begun already or at least that believers will be on earth during the time of Great trib........but that would coincide with Jesus' foretelling in Matthew 24, wouldnt it?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Betty Louise
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Revelations 4- through the end has not happened.
How could Paul have seen it then? Because God transported Paul to the future in his vision.
God is eternity. He has no beginning or end. Time means nothing to God. If He wanted to walk with Adam in the garden of Eden today, He could.
God said He knew us before we were even born. It does not say He knew about us in the future, it says He knew us. God can be in any time frame, He wants to be.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Betty Louise
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Revelations Chapter 16 has not happened.


16Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go and pour out the [fn1] bowls of the wrath of God on the earth."
First Bowl: Loathsome Sores
2 So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.
Second Bowl: The Sea Turns to Blood
3 Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died.
Third Bowl: The Waters Turn to Blood
4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying:

"You are righteous, [fn2] O Lord,
The One who is and who [fn3] was and who is to be,
Because You have judged these things.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
And You have given them blood to drink.
[fn4] For it is their just due."

7 And I heard [fn5] another from the altar saying, "Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments."
Fourth Bowl: Men Are Scorched
8 Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.
Fifth Bowl: Darkness and Pain
10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. 11 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.
Sixth Bowl: Euphrates Dried Up
12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings [fn6] of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, [fn7] Armageddon.
Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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oneinchrist
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What makes so many so sure that this "ruthless" anti-christ is still yet a future one? Why could this not have been referring to the time when much christian persecution began under the times of the Roman Empire.......To God a thousand years is as one day and one day is as a thousand years..........so the near end to God could have started long ago and still be many thousands of years to go, but to us we often have a tendency to look at things in the scope of our own lifetime.

Think about this for a second. Would it make sense for the devil to be killing his own army in the very near end time when he is going to be gathering them for the final battle. Even satan would realize a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. I really think the killing is referring to the martydom of Christians which began a long time ago and still goes on today......just not a common sight on American soil.
I guess the point that I am trying to convey is that I believe that many things in Revelation could be describing things that happen over a long period of time (humanly speaking) and that we may miss that truth because we have it in our minds exactly how things are supposed to play out. Maybe the last anti-Christ standing on the noly hill doesnt come in a manner expected by men, and maybe he never does turn into a monster.......maybe he is just a man who has so much confidence in his own lies and he smiles and the world smiles back, and the devil smiles behind the scenes.

What in the heck is it that makes people think that Revelation is always in the future when Revelation was given to John long ago, and even at the time Revelation was given to John the book had included past events ( including the casting out of the dragon)??????????????? I am puzzled by this. Dont get me wrong. I realize that Jesus has not returned yet.......but Revelation encompasses more than the return of Christ.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
What makes so many people think that the final leading anti-Christ (in high places) is a ruthless one?
The Beast from the Sea (Rev. 13:1-10)

Some texts read, “And he [Satan] stood upon the sand of the sea.” The sea symbolizes the Gentile nations (Rev. 17:15). From one of them, Satan will bring forth his “Super Leader,” the man we call “Antichrist.” Up to this point, Antichrist has headed a ten-nation European league; but now he is about to embark on a new career as Satan’s world dictator.

You will remember that Antichrist began his career as a peacemaker (Rev. 6:2) and even “settled” the Arab-Israeli problem by making a covenant with the Jews to protect them for seven years (Dan. 9:27). This protection would permit the nation to rebuild the temple and reinstitute religious rituals (Dan. 9:27; Rev. 11:1). But in the middle of the seven-year period he will break that covenant, stop the ceremonies, and set up himself as god in the temple (Dan. 9:27; 2 Thes. 2:1-12).

The symbolic description of “the beast” enables us to learn something about his origin and character. God does not see him as a man, made in the divine image, but as a wild animal, under the control of Satan. He is a man (Rev. 13:18); but he is energized from hell, for he comes out of the pit (Rev. 11:7; 17:8). Just as Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, so “the beast” will be Satan in a human body (see John 13:2, 27).

There will be war (Rev. 13:7-10). God will permit Antichrist to war against His people (“wear out the saints,” Dan. 7:25) and even to defeat some of them. John prophesied that some of the saints will be captured and some will be martyred. But because of their faith, they will have patience, or endurance (see Heb. 6:12; Rev. 1:9), and will not deny the Lord in spite of persecution and death.

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Carol Swenson
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Revelation 13:3

One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. (NIV)

Using spectacular miracles, the Antichrist persuaded the world to accept his false teachings. The Beast seduced the world by imitating Christ’s resurrection when he recovered from a fatal wound (from a sword, see 13:14). Because the Beast, the Antichrist, is a false messiah, he will be a counterfeit of Christ and will even parody Christ’s resurrection (13:14). People across the whole world will be astonished and will follow him because they will be awed by his power and miracles. Paul had written, “This evil man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of wicked deception to fool those who are on their way to destruction because they refuse to believe the truth that would save them” (2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 NLT).

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oneinchrist
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In the past there have been both many ruthless and/or persuasive anti-christs..... Caesar, Nero, and Domitian were ruthless and they killed Christians. I guess my next question is.............

What makes so many people think that the final leading anti-Christ (in high places) is a ruthless one? Wouldnt a easy going peaceful guy be better at doing the devils dirty work. He could just mix enough lies with the truth to satisfy the devil and his agenda.........and if that was working so well.......why then the need to have the guy turn into a monster and get ruthless? That just might spoil things that are already going so well. If the devil can accomplish his mission with lies and people are believing those lies, then he doesnt need to use force then, does he? What he needs to do then is to lift up the credibility(in the eyes of the people) of the most influential and highly regarded liar so that even more people believe him. Im sure that is accomplished with even more lies....and so on and so on.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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WildB
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"By Thy Sorceries Were All Nations Deceived"

The word in bold in the following verse is the King James Version translation of the Greek word pharmakeia

A study of the Greek words pharmakeia (Strong's 5331) and pharmakeus (Strong's 5332).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:
"5331. pharmakeia ... from 5332; medication ('pharmacy'), i.e. (by extension) magic (literal or figurative)."
"5332. pharmakeus ... from pharmakon, (a drug, i.e. spell-giving potion); a druggist ('pharmacist') or poisoner, i.e. (by extension) a magician."


Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:
"pharmaceutical ... from Greek pharmakeutikos ... a medicinal drug."
"pharmaco- ... Greek pharmako-, from pharmakon ... medicine : drug."
"pharmacology ... the science of drugs."
"pharmacy ... from Greek pharmakeia ... the art or practice of preparing, preserving, compounding, and dispensing drugs ... a place where medicines are compounded or dispensed ... DRUGSTORE."

I think that it will be caused mostly by some sort of drug induced deception.

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That is all.....

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Forever His
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I would say that the bible speaks to the point that they were deceived...

For example:

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Rev. 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

God Bless you
Forever His

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Betty Louise
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Do people worship the anti-Christ because he is ruthless or because he is persuasive?

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Both. I believe he will be seen as at first as a calm compassionate loving person. Those who appose him, will be gotten rid of quietly. Then after the anti-Christ has developed a following and people begin to think of him as God, he will kill those who refuse to take the mark of the beast and the general population will go along with that, because they will believe those who refuse the mark are the cause of the problems in this world. Once most people realize that they have made their bed with the devil, they will have the mark and it will be too late for them.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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oneinchrist
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I was wondering.............

Do people worship the anti-Christ because he is ruthless or because he is persuasive?

What do you think?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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