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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Can one's salvation be lost? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Can one's salvation be lost?
Carol Swenson
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THE REASONS FOR ETERNAL SECURITY

Basically security is based on the grace of God and the fact that eternal life is a gift and it is eternal. When a person believes in Christ, he is brought into a relationship with the Godhead that assures his salvation is secure. Of course, this is true only of born again people. There are those who profess but do not possess life. Sometimes we can make a reasonably sure judgment as to whether an individual only professes or actually possesses eternal life. Sometimes we cannot. But the regenerated person’s salvation is secure because of that relationship to God which he has through faith.

A. Reasons Related to the Father

1. His purpose. God purposed to glorify the same group He predestined, called, and justified (Rom. 8:30). This daring statement could not be made if any one of that group could lose his salvation. If so, then the ones whom He justified would not be the same number as the ones He glorified. But the text says they will be the same.

2. His power. Most would agree that God’s power is able to keep the believer (and it is, Jude 24), but some would argue that it can be thwarted by a person renouncing his faith. But the Lord said that we are secure in His hand and the Father’s hand and that no one can seize the believer from the safe position (John 10:28-29). Now “no one” means no one, including the individual himself. The promise does not say that no one, except yourself, can seize the believer out of God’s hand. It says no one.

B. Reasons Related to the Son

1. His death. Paul asks two questions in Romans 8:33: who will bring a charge against God’s elect, and who condemns them? His answer that no one can is based on the death, resurrection, intercession, and advocacy of Christ (v. 34). If any sin can undo a believer s salvation, and if in fact, he can lose that salvation, then Christ’s death did not pay for that sin. But it did, Paul asserts. Our Lord Himself also declared that He would lose nothing of what the Father gave Him (John 6:39-40)—everyone who believes in Him will be raised at the last day, not everyone who believes and perseveres.

2. His prayers. Christ’s present ministry in heaven of praying for His own consists of two aspects: a preventive ministry (intercession) and a curative ministry (advocacy). His prayer in chapter 17 illustrates the preventive aspect. There He prayed that we might be kept from the evil one (v. 15), that we would be sanctified (v. 17), that we would be united (v. 21), that we would be in heaven with Him (v. 24), and that we might behold His glory (v. 24). Because of His unceasing intercession for us He is able to save us completely and eternally (Heb. 7:25).

Advocacy comes into action when we sin (1 John 2:1). Again, if any sin can undo salvation (and any can), then Satan has an airtight case against any believer whenever he sins (Rev. 12:10). He can justly demand the Christian’s eternal damnation, and were it not for our Advocate, we would be condemned. But the Lord points to His work on Calvary that removes the guilt of all our sins, those committed before and after salvation, and this suffices to answer Satan’s charge.

I sinned. And straightway, posthaste, Satan flew

before the presence of the Most High God,

And made a railing accusation there.

He said, “This soul, this thing of clay and sod,

Has sinned. ‘Tis true that he has named Thy name,

But I demand his death, for Thou hast said,

‘The soul that sinneth, it shall die.’ Shall not

Thy sentence be fulfilled? Is justice dead?

Send now this wretched sinner to his doom.

What other thing can righteous Ruler do?”

And thus he did accuse me day and night,

And every word he spoke, O God, was true!

Then quickly One rose up from God’s right hand,

Before whose glory angels veiled their eyes,

He spoke, “Each jot and tittle of the Law

Must be fulfilled; the guilty sinner dies!

But wait—suppose his guilt were all transferred

To Me, and that I paid his penalty!

Behold My hands, My side, My feet! One day

I was made sin for him, and died that he

Might be presented faultless, at Thy throne!”

And Satan fled away. Full well he knew

That he could not prevail against such love,

For every word my dear Lord spoke was true!

—Martha Snell Nicholson

C. Reasons Related to the Spirit

1. He regenerates. If we are born again by the Spirit when we believe, then if we can renounce our faith to lose our salvation, we would have to have the new birth taken away as well.

2. He indwells. If salvation can be lost, then the presence of the Spirit within the life of the believer would have to be removed. The Christian would become disindwelt.

3. He baptizes. The Spirit joins the believer to the body of Christ when he believes (1 Cor. 12:13); therefore, if salvation can be lost, the Christian would have to be detached from the body of Christ.

4. He seals. The Spirit seals the believer until the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30). If salvation can be lost, then His sealing would not be until the day of redemption but only until the day of sinning, or apostasy, or disbelief.

Of course, Scripture gives no hint that a Christian can lose the new birth, or that he can be disindwelt, or that he can be removed from the body of Christ (thus maiming His body), or be unsealed. Salvation is eternal and completely secured to all who believe.

To be sure, believers sin and are warned against false profession and Christian immaturity, but God never takes back the gift of His salvation once it is received. Believers will not always persevere in godliness. Peter did not (Gal. 2:11). Many Ephesian believers did not (Acts 19:18). Lot did not (2 Peter 2:7). At the Judgment Seat of Christ there will be some whose works will be burned and who will be saved as through fire (1 Cor. 3:15). Even though every believer will bear some fruit (4:5), it is difficult if not impossible to quantify how much or what kind each one will bear and thus to make judgments as to the spiritual condition of an individual.

(Basic Theology)

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Carol Swenson
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THE ARMINIAN VIEW OF SECURITY

James Arminius (1560-1609) received his training in strict Reformed theology. When asked to defend supralapsarianism against sublapsarianism, he found himself guardedly defending the sublapsarian position. His writings, collected in three volumes, consist mostly of occasional treatises that grew out of the controversies he found himself in. The system known as Arminianism took his views much further and was forged by Simon Episcopius (1583-1643).

Among the principal teachings of Arminianism are the following.

1. Foreknowledge. God’s decrees are based on His foreknowledge (meaning foresight). Election was due to foreseen faith and reprobation to foreseen resistance to grace. Though Arminius also viewed foreknowledge as foresight, he did say that “God decreed to save some and damn certain particular persons” (The Works of James Arminius, translated by James Nichols [Auburn: Derby and Miller, 1853], 1:248).

2. Pollution, not guilt. Man inherited pollution from Adam but not imputed guilt. Depravity is not total for man can incline his will toward good deeds.

3. Perfection. It is possible for a believer to live in such conformity to God’s will so as to be called perfect.

4. Loss of salvation. Arminianism clearly teaches that a believer may lose his salvation. Arminius said: “I never taught that a true believer can either totally or finally fall away from the faith and perish; yet I will not conceal that there are passages of Scripture which seem to me to wear this aspect” (Works, 1:254).

On a more popular level, Arminians sometimes equate the position of eternal security with a license to sin. Of course, Calvinists do sin and excuse it, but so do Arminians. Our life should adorn our doctrine, but our life, good or bad, neither makes doctrine true or untrue.

As a practical matter, the Arminian view of the possibility and reality of losing one’s salvation sometimes leads to a cataloging of sins. In one category are sins which will cause you to lose your salvation; in another, those which do not. Of course, some sins are worse than others (Matt. 7:1-5; John 19:11), but if one sin can cause the loss of salvation, then any sin can. Resistance to this conclusion may account for the perfectionism teaching in Arminianism.

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Betty Louise
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Hi Kingo. I agree with you. We can do nothing to earn our salvation and we can not keep it in ourselves.
It is God's work in us.
Have a great evening. [hug]
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Kindgo
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Well, would you believe I am trying to get my post count up... [pound]


[happyhappy]

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Kindgo
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If we could "lose" our salvation due to something we "do", then we must have "done" something in the first place to earn it.

Losing one's salvation just doesn't square with Scripture.

When we receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion, He comes to stay. Of course, we don't live the "perfect" Christian life, but 1 John 1:9, says that when we sin, and we confess our sins, we can be cleansed from our unrighteousness.

Scripture has to interpret Scripture, and there is no consistent support for one losing his/her salvation.

Praise God--not so that we can sin,but so that we can know that God Himself has taken up residence within us to empower us to resist sin and convict us when we stumble.

We have true joy, and peace... [youpi]

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Kindgo
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If we could "lose" our salvation due to something we "do", then we must have "done" something in the first place to earn it.

Losing one's salvation just doesn't square with Scripture.

When we receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion, He comes to stay. Of course, we don't live the "perfect" Christian life, but 1 John 1:9, says that when we sin, and we confess our sins, we can be cleansed from our unrighteousness.

Scripture has to interpret Scripture, and there is no consistent support for one losing his/her salvation.

Praise God--not so that we can sin,but so that we can know that God Himself has taken up residence within us to empower us to resist sin and convict us when we stumble.

We have true joy, and peace... [youpi]

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Kindgo
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If we could "lose" our salvation due to something we "do", then we must have "done" something in the first place to earn it.

Losing one's salvation just doesn't square with Scripture.

When we receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion, He comes to stay. Of course, we don't live the "perfect" Christian life, but 1 John 1:9, says that when we sin, and we confess our sins, we can be cleansed from our unrighteousness.

Scripture has to interpret Scripture, and there is no consistent support for one losing his/her salvation.

Praise God--not so that we can sin,but so that we can know that God Himself has taken up residence within us to empower us to resist sin and convict us when we stumble.

We have true joy, and peace... [youpi]

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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The Beauty of Holiness777
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Nope! In no ways that is not what the scripture is saying.

When we become saved if one sin would cause us to be lost none of us would stand the ghost of a chance of entering into God's Kingdom.

For it is written that ALL have come short of the Glory of God.

None of us have crossed every "T" and dotted every "i" in our walk of Salvation.
The sin the scripture is talking about are the one's we continously do, and never getting our selves totally right with God.

David was a man after God's own heart not because he was so righteous because David sinned more than once.

He was a man after God's own heart because "David had a heart (mind) of repentance.

God knows our hearts (minds) and He knows whether our repentance is sincere or not. If it is we will not continously sin. Why? Because we truly love the Lord and want to please Him and not man. Amen! And to God be the Glory! [clap2]

--------------------
In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}

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Kindgo
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So exactly what sin will make me NOT SAVED any more?

Is it a special one?

Or does it take more then one?


If I sin twice then I am lost forever?

Is that right?

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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The Beauty of Holiness777
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No matter how one may try to camouflage "The Once Saved Always Saved Theory" there is no truth in it in "God's Holy Word" that will not return to Him Void.

This is a theory that was and is made on a theory of misinterpreted scripture, and it is causing many to be deceived. It is one that the "Father of Lies" has placed in the mind of many who causes others to err.

Be not deceived God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sowed that shall he reaped. The soul that sinneth shall die, and the soul that continous to sin though she or he was once saved shall in no way enter into the Kingdom of God.

It is written in the Holy Bible for it is the Word of God.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good (what is right) and doeth it not, to him is is sin. (James 4:13-17)

God said it I beleive it and to me that settles it.

Love and Peace to All! [Smile]

--------------------
In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}

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becauseHElives
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the first Adam...

was he not created in the image of Yahweh?

is not the image of Yahweh eternal?

The first Adam was created an eternal being, doubt it not!

But Adam was warned what not to do, just as oneinchrist pointed out the scriptures give the believer warnings....

A believer's obedience will not save them or add anything to what Yahshua has done for them through His obedience to the Cross and His Blood on the Mercy Seat but the individual that thinks his or her continual lack of regard for the warnings given to those that would choose to follow Yahshua with only the loss of reward are sadly mistaken.

If my only concern was as some of you who preach that damnable message of "Once Saved always Saved" that I might lose some reward that I don't deserve anyway on Judgment Day, I would rejoice but the only thing I fear is a Holy God...who warns if how you live and what you preach causes a little one to fall, it would be better for that person to have never been born.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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The Beauty of Holiness777
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2 Timothy 3:1-7
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy.

Without natural affection, truce breakers, falst accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good.

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than of God.

HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT DENYING THE POWER THEREOF: FROM SUCH TURN AWAY.

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led with divers lusts.

EVER LEARNING, BUT NEVER ABLE TO COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.


Once Saved always Saved holds no weight to scripture. In other words this theory contradicts the Word of God and God Word is true.
For GOD IS NOT A MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE, NOR THE SON OF MAN THAT HE SHOULD REPENT. (Numbers 23:19)

These are they which believe but they do not believe savingly. Some may called them tares or fence sitters. Some call them nominal believers who might even profess being followers of Christ, but who were never truly born again they never truly repented and accepted Christ or never committed fully to Him.

Beleif in Christ Jesus is only the beginning for anyone who seeks eternal life. In addition to beleif the practice of faithful living, of righteous works, of obedience to God and to the laws of God and a fearful respect of the following.

Woe unto the so called christians that have a form of godliness but deny the words, the teachings and commands of the True and Living God. (Religious Charades)

God will not tolerate "Save today Out Tomorrow, In and out Saints." [spiny]

There is no horseplay or compromising with Jesus Christ and Salvation. His Word is plain and made easy to all that truly study, seek His Face, His statues, and His laws.

God has no respected person His Word does not apply for some and not for others. As He has said unto one He says unto ALL. He has no pleasure in sin or those who turn back that hold the plow.

But nevertheless, "He is the God of a second Chance."

Revelation 2:4-5
Repent and do thy first works over...

--------------------
In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}

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Grams
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I do believe that once you are saved you are
always saved.
But I do believe you may have thought you were
saved but were not !
We can come close , but close is not good either.

Things were different back when I grew up.
We had not been told to use the bible!
And we were always to do works.
And I was not saved till I left that Church.

--------------------
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[ WARNING: EXPOSURE TO THE SON MAY PREVENT BURNING. ]

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yahsway
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Yeshua says to the Loveless Church

"Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have LEFT your fisrt love."

"Remember therefore from where you have FALLEN; repent and DO the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and Remove your lampstand from its place-unless you repent."

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Carol Swenson
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The KJV only mentions "falling away" once in the New Testament concerning the Antichrist.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 - 4 (KJV)
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

In the NLT "falling away" is mentioned only once in Jude.

Jude 1:24 - 25 (NLT)
24Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into his glorious presence without a single fault. 25All glory to him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are his before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen.

The word "backsliding" is used only in the Old Testament.

"Falling into sin" appears nowhere in either translation.

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oneinchrist
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Interesting that you would ask me that Carol.

How do you explain the fact that even though Paul gave man the reasons to have confidence in Salvation through Christ, that the same Paul also speaks of the reality of backsliding, falling into sin, and ultimately falling away? Dont you think that falling away would have something to do with ignoring warnings?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Wild B,
You are not suggesting that it is OK to ignore the warnings of our intercessor??? are you??

I would question( only as a fallible human) the claims of one who states they have the seal of God, but yet at the same time discounts the importance of heeding to Jesus' warnings throughout scripture.

With love in Christ, Daniel

You are not suggesting that Paul would teach us contrary to the will of Jesus Christ??? are you??
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Carol Swenson
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Galatians 1:11 - 12 (NLT)
11Dear brothers and sisters, I want you to understand that the gospel message I preach is not based on mere human reasoning. 12I received my message from no human source, and no one taught me. Instead, I received it by direct revelation from Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:30 - 32 (NLT)
30And do not bring sorrow to God’s Holy Spirit by the way you live. Remember, he has identified you as his own, guaranteeing that you will be saved on the day of redemption.

31Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of evil behavior. 32Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you.

Matthew 6:14-15

“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”(NRSV)

Jesus’ words reinforce the petition in 6:12. Jesus gave a startling warning about forgiveness: If we refuse to forgive others, God will also refuse to forgive us. This does not refer to salvation because salvation is not dependent on anything people can do. The foundation of God’s forgiveness builds upon his own character. In love he regards the death of Christ as sufficient to pay our penalty. Forgiving others is not a meritorious work for earning salvation. However, living in relationship with God requires constant repentance of the sins that plague us. Because believers must come to God constantly for confession and forgiveness, refusing to forgive others reveals a lack of appreciation for the mercy received from God. All people are on common ground as sinners in need of God’s forgiveness. If we don’t forgive others, we are in fact denying and rejecting God’s forgiveness of us (see Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 3:13). Later, Jesus told a parable depicting such a situation (18:23-35).

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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
You are not suggesting that it is OK to ignore the warnings of our intercessor??? are you??

I would question( only as a fallible human) the claims of one who states they have the seal of God, but yet at the same time discounts the importance of heeding to Jesus' warnings throughout scripture.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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WildB
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quote:

I always believe that it is best to err on the side of caution.

Why err at all.

It is the teaching of our Apostle Paul (Rom. 11:13) that members of the Body of Christ living in the dispensation of Grace are eternally secure in Him (Rom. 8:35-39; Phil. 1:6).

--------------------
That is all.....

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oneinchrist
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I always believe that it is best to err on the side of caution. If it is possible to "fall away", then we need to make sure that we heed to scriptural warnings. We can argue and argue about our theological stance on eternal security and it can get nowhere, but no one can go wrong by opening their bible and saying to themselves "So what does Jesus (our intercessor) warn us about?"

With Great Love comes strict warnings. Wouldn't we be foolish to think that the warnings are not for our own good?

To illustrate my point: We are warned against unforgiveness. I can say to myself, "Well its only "works" if I forgive and I cant add my "works" to what Jesus did for me".
Well, if my memory serves me ,Jesus states at least twice in the four gospels that if we choose not to forgive, then neither will our Father in heaven forgive us............Is there any Christian among us who thinks we should not take that warning seriously????

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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Kindgo good post!


It is of great spiritual value to accept without question what the Bible teaches about the safekeeping of the people of God.

The believers’s life in Christ is said to be everlasting or eternal—that is, it will never end, John 3:16; Rom. 6:23. Believers shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of the Father’s hand, John 10:28, 29. They are said to be “kept by the power of God,” 1 Pet. 1:5; kept for Jesus Christ, Jude 1:1. Christ declared that all who believe have everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, John 5:24. He is able “to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him,” Heb. 7:25.

The entire Trinity is involved in the safekeeping of Christians. The Father has given believers to the Son, John 17:9. The Son has asked that they be kept, John 17:11, 20. The Holy Spirit is to dwell within every believer forever, John 14:16; 1 Cor. 6:19. These revealed truths have nothing to do with human experience, but only with the divine purpose and promise.

Passages which seem, to some, to contradict the doctrine of security are found to be related to rewards, chastisement, and the fact that an absence of good works reveals a lack of genuine faith, Phil. 2:12, 13; 2 Pet. 3:9-17.

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Kindgo
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Question: Can one's salvation be lost?



Eternal Security and the Oldest Lie in The Book

by Jack Kinsella of Omega Letter

I received an email recently in which the writer, arguing against the doctrine of eternal security, noted that some Scriptures seem to support it and others seem to contradict it.
He lamented that nobody can know for sure, and therefore, nobody should teach eternal security as a doctrine.

Any Scripture taken out of context can be made to prove anything. Within various chapters and verses, one finds specific contexts.

But then there is the whole body of Scripture, which, when taken in its entire context, DOES reveal the truth. The central theme of Scripture centers around three main points;
1) Man is a sinner constitutionally incapable of keeping the law.
2) Nobody is qualified to enter into the Presence of God based on his own merits and,
3) For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Remove any of those key points from the equation and the theme of salvation makes no sense. If point 1 were not true, then it would negate point 2, which would then eliminate the necessity for point 3. Do you see it?

If eternal security is a false doctrine, that means we each play a role, through our works, (either sinful or righteous) in maintaining our salvation.

In that case, maintaining one's salvation would require working at it by maintaining our personal righteousness.

But the Scripture says that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." (Isaiah 64:6)

Remember, our native unrighteousness is the central theme of Scripture -- and it demands the necessity of a Savior.

Therefore, if maintaining one's personal righteousness is a condition of salvation, then point 1 is not true, point 2 is partially untrue and point 3 is unnecessary. That would defy the central theme and context of the revealed Word.

In witnessing to the lost, one generalizes the whole context of Scripture, telling the sinner;
"You are lost, and cannot stand before a Righteous Judge clothed in your own righteousness. But Jesus has paid the penalty for your sins at the Cross. Repent (change your mind) and trust in His shed Blood as full payment for your sins."
Then one turns to Scripture to lead the sinner down what is often referred to as 'Romans Road'.

Is that not the central theme of Scripture as generally presented by pretty much EVERYBODY, regardless of their position on eternal security?

Is that not the altar call that YOU responded to?
One can dig and dig and find Scriptures that appear to say the opposite -- yet those who focus on those seemingly contradictory Scriptures find no conflict in giving the same synopsis of salvation to a lost sinner that I just gave.

It isn't until AFTER someone surrenders to Christ that they begin to doubt, and Satan is more than able to direct the doubters to this Scripture, or that, until the free gift of salvation morphs into a joint effort between the Lord and the believer.

Pretty soon, the believer starts to put sins into various categories, according to his own human understanding.

But the Scriptures are abundantly clear that ALL sin is equally sinful in God's view, and ONLY that view is in harmony with the central context of Scripture as summarized as points 1, 2, and 3.

In the Garden of Eden, the serpent deceived Eve by promising her that, in disobeying God, three things would happen.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:5)

Let's break it down into its component elements.

1) "Your eyes shall be opened."
The serpent begins by hinting that God is deliberately withholding beneficial information from them. The argument that some Scriptures seem to require salvation by faith plus works, while others seem to support eternal security stems from that seminal deception -- that God's Word is ambiguous when examined closely.

2) "Ye shall be as gods."
It goes against the grain of human pride to believe that the only role we play in our own salvation is to accept a free gift of unearned pardon. Most human religions -- and many Christian denominations -- insist that mankind play some role in his redemption.
In this view, the sacrifice of the Cross is not enough -- it is just a kick-start that gets us going. We must then perform at a certain level or that sacrifice is negated by our own failed efforts.

3) "Knowing good from evil."
This goes back to the belief that we humans can know which sins are sufficient to disqualify us from heaven and which ones God will let slide because they weren't as evil -- which is the ONLY rationale for rejecting the doctrine of eternal security.
(Unless one is prepared to accept as fact that there are saved believers who never sin again after being saved. I've never met one, personally. But let's examine the possibility that I missed him.)

Ever get angry after being saved? Ever say something hurtful? Ever roll through a stop sign? (Did you hunt down a cop to tell him you deserve a ticket?) Ever eat something you knew was unhealthy? Ever think something bad about somebody at church? Ever get mad at your parents? Ever think, 'you idiot!' when somebody cuts you off?

(". . . whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." -- Matthew 5:22)

"Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. . . " (Romans 2:1)

Humans know right from wrong because right and wrong are relative to actions. One can do right, or one can do wrong. Saving a person from being hit by a streetcar is a right thing. Pushing him in front of one is wrong -- one might even say, 'evil'.

But good and evil are outcomes -- and the outcome of our actions is known only to God. Allow me to illustrate.

You are in Vienna, Austria, and the year is 1905. A man is painting a landscape portrait of downtown Vienna and doesn't realize he has stepped back into the path of a street car. You see him, and push him to safety.
You did the right thing, right? It was a 'good' thing that you did, and not 'evil', right?

If you knew what the outcome of your good deed in 1905 would be -- that is, if you knew at the time that you had just saved the life of Adolph Hitler and knew what he would become -- did doing 'the right thing' result in a 'good', or 'evil' outcome?

The first lie of the Garden of Evil was that man should trust in himself and on his own understanding. The Scriptures teach the precise opposite.

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." (Proverbs 3:5)
The doctrine of eternal security flies in the face of that first lie by removing man from the equation altogether. Eternal security says that human righteousness is as 'filthy rags' before the Lord, therefore, Jesus paid the FULL penalty for sin.

It teaches that man plays no greater role in his salvation than that of accepting the gift of Pardon offered him by repenting (which means to change one's mind) about his sin and trusting in the shed Blood of Christ as a completed work.

The Scriptures teach us we can be, "confident of this very thing, that He which hath BEGUN a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Phillipians 1:6)

One doctrine, that of salvation plus works, teaches that once He hath begun a good work in me, it is up to ME to perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

The other, that of eternal security, teaches that, once He hath begun a good work in me, HE will continue to perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

Which doctrine lines up best with the main theme of the revealed Word of God?

We return to the message of salvation, but presented WITHOUT the implicit promise of eternal security for the believer.

"You are lost and deserve to go to hell. But Jesus has made a way for you to be saved. All you have to do is believe in Him and not sin again. Go to church, learn the Bible, quit smoking, drinking, swearing, having lustful thoughts, avoid all your old sinful friends, do good and don't sin, and you shall be saved. But if you continue in sin after trusting Jesus, you will go to hell anyway."

If one discounts the doctrine of eternal security as some kind of Satanic lie, then giving the Gospel in any manner differently than the one above is deceptive advertising.
But the Scriptures teach, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature." (Galatians 6:15)

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2nd Corinthians 5:17)

If one is turned into a 'new creature' through God's extension of Sovereign grace accepted through faith, how then does one turn ONESELF back to the old creature by an act of human will (sin)?

Finally, there is the logic argument, as further advanced the Apostle Paul in his letter to the Galatians.

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Galatians 2:21)

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28)

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator



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