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Author Topic: Can one's salvation be lost?
oneinchrist
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Hi Wild B,
Thank you for the response. Yes I am at peace in my convictions of scriptural truth.......but I am not at peace in other regards. I am not at peace seeing a world fall away from God and deny His love towards us. That puts me at unrest, but it motivates me to draw strength from God.

I am at peace with you because this is the first time I ever remember you speaking from the heart and not giving someone elses answer to my question. You were not arrogant, and you were not rude, and you did not tell me to stop my silliness. I feel I have actually made a connection with you.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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Security

The doctrine that maintains the continuation of salvation for those who are saved. It must be distinguished from the doctrine of assurance. It must also be clearly remembered that it concerns only the regenerate. The doctrine of security is based upon twelve undertakings of God for His people, four related to the Father, four to the Son, and four to the Holy Spirit.


The Father’s Undertakings

(1) The efficacy of the perpetual prayer of the Son upon the Father (John 17:9-12, 15, 20). (2) Infinite divine power made available to save and keep (John 10:29; Romans 4:21; 8:31-39; Ephesians 1:19-21). (3) God’s infinite love (Ephesians 1:4-5; Romans 5:7-10). (4) God’s sovereign purpose or covenant, which is unconditional (John 3:16; 5:24; 6:37).


The Son’s Undertakings

(1) His intercession (John 17:1-26; Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:23-25). (2) His advocacy (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 9:24; 1 John 2:1-2). (3) His substitutionary death (Romans 8:1-4; 1 John 2:2). (4) His glorious resurrection (John 3:16; 10:28; Ephesians 2:6).


The Spirit’s Undertakings

(1) Regeneration, or quickening into eternal life, which is the partaking of the divine nature and an entrance into that which cannot be removed (John 1:13; 3:3-6; Titus 3:4-6; 1 John 3:9). (2) Baptism, by which the believer is united to Christ so as to partake eternally in the new creation glory and blessing (1 Corinthians 6:17; 12:13; Galatians 3:27). (3) Sealing, by which the Holy Spirit stamps and thus secures the Christian as God’s child (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30). (4) Indwelling, by which the Spirit inhabits the redeemed body forever (John 7:37-39; Romans 5:5; 8:9; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 1 John 2:27).

The NT clearly teaches that God offers no salvation at the present time that is not eternal. Although this doctrine has been greatly misunderstood and abused, when rightly understood it offers a powerful boon to a holy life (cf. 1 John 2:1). Arminian doctrines reject security, employing experience as a proof. However, the Scriptures commonly so employed, when clearly classified, do not favor insecurity: (1) Passages concerning false teachers of the last days of the church (1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Peter 2:1-22; Jude 17-19) that concern apostates or those who were never saved. (2) Passages comprehending no more than moral reform: for example, Luke 11:24-26. (3) Passages dispensationally misapplied (Ezekiel 21:1-32; 33:7-8; Matthew 18:23-35; 24:13; 25:1-13). (4) Passages relating to loss of rewards and chastisement (John 15:2; 1 Corinthians 3:15; 9:27; 11:27-32; Colossians 1:21-23; 1 John 1:5-9; 5:16). (5) Passages relating to falling from grace, that is, leaving the grace way of life for the legal way of life (Galatians 5:4). (6) Passages containing various admonitions (Hebrews 6:4-9; 10:26-31).

The doctrine of security has suffered much confusion and misuse. It is rejected by many theologians and subscribed to by others but abused by antinomian teaching and living. It is nevertheless a clear teaching of Scripture, and when properly understood and faithfully believed it is a doctrine of immense spiritual benefit and blessing.

(Unger's)

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WildB
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What comes out of our mouths and from our actions is indicative of what is in our hearts.

Boldness of truth is just one facet that follows the conviction of ones belief in a Biblical presentation of Christ.

Phil.4

[12] I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

Having the knowledge of being Sealed and being lead by the Spirit is a Must for proper direction.


Phil.4

[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.


Are you at peace my friend?

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That is all.....

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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
Now that you have been sealed, have you been a bolder witness of the Lord Jesus? That is my only question for you.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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WildB
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THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SEALED

As with indwelling, sealing belongs to believers only and to all believers. In 2 Corinthians 1:22 Paul makes no exceptions in writing to a group in which exceptions could easily be justified. All are sealed. If this were not true, then how could Paul make it the basis for the exhortation not to grieve the Spirit in Ephesians 4:30? He would have to be saying that only that group of believers who are sealed should not grieve the Spirit.

THE TIME OF SEALING

Like indwelling, sealing takes place at the time of our conversion. The "and" in 2 Corinthians 1:22 links sealing with the gift of the Spirit as the earnest. And the Spirit is given when we believe (Acts 2:3.)

Ephesians 1:13 can legitimately be exegeted two ways which result in two different answers to the question of when are people sealed. The principal verb is "you were sealed." The aorist participle that accompanies it is "believing." Now the participle may express an action that preceded that of the principal verb. If so, then the believing occurred before being sealed; i.e., there was an interval of time between believing and being sealed. Or the participle may indicate action that occurred at the same time as that of the principal verb. If so, then the believing and the sealing happened at the same time. Exegetically either could be correct. But theologically, both believing and sealing must be simultaneous. Otherwise it would be possible to have unsealed believers.

THE AGENT(S) OF SEALING

Clearly God does the sealing of believers (2 Cor. 1:22). Less clear is the question of whether the Holy Spirit is also an agent. Ephesians 4:30 seems to indicate that He is because it uses the phrase "by whom." However, this could mean "in whom." Ephesians 1:13 is ambiguous; no preposition is expressed. The Spirit may be the Agent or the sphere of the sealing, or both. We are sealed by the Spirit and in the Spirit.

If both, it might be like saying, "I went to the store in my car." You could mean "by means of my car" viewing the car as the agent that took you to the store. Or you could mean "by sitting within (the sphere) of my car," viewing the car as the enclosure in which you were taken. Actually you did both. The car served both as the agent that took you and the enclosure in which you were located. Similarly, the Spirit did the sealing as the agent, and as a result we are enclosed in Him.

THE DURATION OF SEALING

Sealing is to the day of redemption (4:30). This refers to that future day when our redemption shall be fully accomplished, including receiving our resurrection bodies (cf. Rom. 8:23). Thus the sealing guarantees the complete fulfillment of God's promises to us. And no believer can become unsealed on his way to heaven.

THE RAMIFICATIONS OF SEALING


A. Security

The concept of sealing includes the ideas of ownership, authority, responsibility, and, above all, security. Sealing assures us of the security of God's promises to us, especially our salvation. We can be certain (a) that He possesses us, (b) that we have a secure salvation sealed by and with the Spirit, and (c) that He purposes to keep us to the day of our full redemption.

Registered mail furnishes a good example of the security concept in sealing. When registering a piece of mail, it not only has to be sealed carefully but then the post office stamps it a number of times across the edges of the seal to be able to detect any tampering with that seal. Only two people can legitimately break the seal, the recipient or the sender (if it is delivered back to him). In the case of believers, God is the Sender and God is the Recipient, and God is the One who does the sealing. So only God can break the seal and He has promised not to do so until the day of redemption.

Both 2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 1:13-14 mention the gift of the Spirit as an earnest along with sealing. The association is quite logical. Sealing guarantees that we shall receive all that God has promised us, some of which awaits our future redemption. The presence of the Spirit in our lives serves as an earnest or pledge that all will be fulfilled. In human affairs, once earnest money has been given and received, both the purchaser and the seller are pledged to complete the transaction. Similarly, the gift of the Spirit serves as God's pledge that He will not go back on any of His promises to us.

B. Purity

The thought of the day of our full redemption when we shall be perfect should shame us about sin in our lives now. Furthermore, the fact that we have a relationship with the Holy Spirit who is grieved when we sin should motivate us to purity.

What sins grieve Him? Any and all sins. But in the immediate context (the two verses that surround 4:30) sins of the tongue are highlighted. Of course, what comes from our mouths is indicative of what is in our hearts. The thought of being sealed by and in the Holy Spirit should guard our lips.

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That is all.....

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oneinchrist
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Hi Wild B,
I see that you keep repeating "Once sealed always sealed" . I have a personal question for you. With the confidence that you have as having been sealed by the spirit of God, have you become a bolder witness of the Lord Jesus?

I know that you are not obligated to answer me, but I am just curious.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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You're both right

G4624
skandalizō
skan-dal-id'-zo

To “scandalize”; from G4625; to entrap, that is, trip up (figuratively stumble [transitively] or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):—(make to) offend.

I like the TEV version of this verse too:

Matthew 18:6 (TEV)

If anyone should cause one of these little ones to lose his faith in me , it would be better for that person to have a large millstone tied around his neck and be drowned in the deep sea.

Especially since we're talking about people who don't have faith in the sealing of the Holy Spirit.

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yahsway
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WildB, I assume you are using the KJV while i am using the NJKV, nevertheless, the word "Offend" in that passage is not about hurting ones feelings.

Its about causing those little ones to "Stumble".

Do a word search on Offend.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Carol and Betty,
We are really moving towards another topic of discussion that I had previously posted. Is discipleship an option? Can we say that we are saved, but never respond to the call of discipleship whereby we are called to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus? If Jesus states "If ye continue in my Word, then are ye my disciples indeed"......that sure seems to indicate that sanctification is not an automatic thing. In other words, is it a requirement for salvation that we accept Jesus as Lord of our lives? Is that what we learn from the gospels? Is it enough to say all we need to do is accept Jesus as Savior? Is a decision to follow Jesus only icing on the cake?

Are these the minimum responses God is looking for?
1. a repentant heart which involves a change of mind about sin, and humbling ourselves by turning from a position of rebellion to God and turning to God and his will for our life.
2. faith in Jesus whereby we believe on Him as savior and accept His call to discipleship in a decision to follow Him as Lord.

What do you think?

With love in Christ, Daniel

http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005901#000000
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Betty Louise
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Are these the minimum responses God is looking for?
1. a repentant heart which involves a change of mind about sin, and humbling ourselves by turning from a position of rebellion to God and turning to God and his will for our life.
2. faith in Jesus whereby we believe on Him as savior and accept His call to discipleship in a decision to follow Him as Lord.
-------------

I believe those are the minimum requirements for salvation. What does someone lose by getting into Heaven by the skin of their teeth? The lose having a closer relationship with Jesus on earth and rewards in Heaven.
To say that salvation is about discipleship would be saying that there is no death bed salvation, which Jesus Himself, disproved when He saved the man on the cross.


There is a difference in a person who is living in sin and a Christian who limits there relationship with God. I know Christians do who do that. There are many Christians who attend Church only on Sunday morning. They are still Christians but they are missing out on the deeper relationship that comes from Bible Study on Wednesday night.
For those who have chosen to be a distant child of God they will spend an eternity regretting that, but they will still be in Heaven because they are saved.


We lived 4 year 2,000 miles from my mom. During that time, my sister and my mom grew close emotionally. I was still my mom's child but I do not have the close relationship that my sister and my mom have. As Christians there are times we are closer to Jesus then others. It is not because Jesus has moved, but we can become over extended by work and family problems. We have not lost our salvation but we have lost the closeness that comes from keeping our hearts and minds close to Jesus. Sadly there are some Christians who allow life to keep them always further from Jesus then they should be. They are still God's Children but they are missing out on so much.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
WildB, you left something out of the verse you wrote in Matt 18:6

"But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me TO SIN, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

in verses 6-9 Jesus proclaims the severe consequences of causing another or oneself(8,9) TO SIN (become apostate)

Sorry To SIN is not in the text as you place it, Offend is.


But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me,

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That is all.....

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yahsway
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WildB, you left something out of the verse you wrote in Matt 18:6

"But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me TO SIN, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

in verses 6-9 Jesus proclaims the severe consequences of causing another or oneself(8,9) TO SIN (become apostate)

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WildB
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"Once Sealed Always Sealed”until the day of redemption is not a damnable doctrine of the devil."

The Bible says~

Those that accurse the work of the Holy Spirits part are nigh unto committing the great sin.

Read prayerfully,

Eph.4
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


and

Matt.12
[31] Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
[32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.



So if you are saying the sealing power of the Holy Spirit untill the day of redemtion is a doctrine of the devil are you not in fact doing the same thing that the Pharisees did in regaurds to the operation of the Holy Spirit in their day?

You don't understand it so you think to speak your long winded words against it but in reality your new age blasphemy against the Holy Ghost can cause the little ones to fall.

Matt.18
[6] But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


--------------------
That is all.....

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oneinchrist
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Carol and Betty,
We are really moving towards another topic of discussion that I had previously posted. Is discipleship an option? Can we say that we are saved, but never respond to the call of discipleship whereby we are called to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus? If Jesus states "If ye continue in my Word, then are ye my disciples indeed"......that sure seems to indicate that sanctification is not an automatic thing. In other words, is it a requirement for salvation that we accept Jesus as Lord of our lives? Is that what we learn from the gospels? Is it enough to say all we need to do is accept Jesus as Savior? Is a decision to follow Jesus only icing on the cake?

Are these the minimum responses God is looking for?
1. a repentant heart which involves a change of mind about sin, and humbling ourselves by turning from a position of rebellion to God and turning to God and his will for our life.
2. faith in Jesus whereby we believe on Him as savior and accept His call to discipleship in a decision to follow Him as Lord.

What do you think?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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Matthew 22:37 - 40 (NLT)
37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

Galatians 5:13 - 14 (NLT)
13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don’t use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love. 14 For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Now let's see. If we say "Obey and bear fruit or else!" then they will agree with us.

If we say "Obey and bear fruit out of love and joy and gratitude for our salvation", then they think we are wrong and evil.

Go figure.

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Betty Louise
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There will be a lot of disappointed people on the day of Judgment!
--------

What, shock, that people are saved that you did not think were saved? Thank God it is Him that saves and not people that saves us. Since we have made it clear that if a person bears fruit that they are saved then they are saved, then who are you to judge those those who are saved who bear the fruit of salvation? No one says a person can be saved and live like the devil. We just believe a true child of God does not have to live in fear of losing their salvation.

betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Carol,
You said in a previous post that the words "falling away" are found only once in the NT. That is true......but the words "fall away" are found in Hebrews6:6.

You also stated that the falling away spoken of in Thessalonians in only concerning the anti-christ. I do not believe that to be the case. My bible makes a reference to 1 Tim 4:1 from Thessalonians "unless the falling away comes first".

1 Tim 4:1 Now the spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

The above verse does not appear to be concerning only the anti-christ in that it says SOME will depart from the faith.

Do you still not believe that it is possible to fall away? or do you just believe that it isnt possible for you?

With love in Christ, Daniel

I should have been more explicit. I did not mean just the person of the Antichrist, but everything about him. The time in history, (the Tribulation), the world conditions, (judgments from God), and the people in the world at that time, (the church will be gone; the church will have been raptured). The Antichrist will demand that people worship him.

quote:
or do you just believe that it isnt possible for you?
I'm no different than anyone else.
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Carol Swenson
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oneinChrist

How about this one?

Galatians 5:4 (NLT)
For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

The Hebrews 6 verse:
quote:
The people described are not backsliders but apostates.
We defined apostates in the "Forgiveness of Sins" thread. Do you remember?
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The Beauty of Holiness777
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All I can say about the Once Saved Always Saved Theory is;

There will be a lot of disappointed people on the day of Judgment!

--------------------
In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}

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oneinchrist
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My bible also gives an explanation for Hebrews 6:4-8

The language of vv. 4 and 5 clearly describes those who have experienced the saving grace of God, and the language of v. 6 denotes a complete disowning of Christ, a deliberate and decisive abandonment of the Christian faith. The people described are not backsliders but apostates. They have not merely fallen into sin but have denounced Christ. They have become as those who crucified Jesus.
The illustration depicts the condemnation of those who turn away from Jesus Christ.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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oneinchrist
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Hi Carol,
My bible offers a little different explanation on Hebrews 6:9-12. This is what it states.

The writer expresses confidence that his readers will remain steadfast, thus tempering his harsh warnings with warm encouragement. Faith looks to the One who promises; hope looks to the things promised.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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Hebrews 6:9 (NLT)
Dear friends, even though we are talking like this, we really don’t believe that it applies to you. We are confident that you are meant for better things, things that come with salvation.

After arguing that it is possible for non-Christians to seem like true Christians, the writer continued that we really don’t believe that it applies to you. The stern warnings are now balanced with an encouraging note. The writer assures readers that the dire warnings of tragedy and spiritual loss are, thankfully, not going to be enacted against the true believers. This encouraging word tells readers that they are “on course” and indeed receptive to the spiritual food offered here. (Life Application Bible Commentary)

Jesus Christ gives life. Where there is life there is growth and fruit.

Matthew 7:16 - 18 (NLT)
16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit.

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oneinchrist
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Carol,
You said in a previous post that the words "falling away" are found only once in the NT. That is true......but the words "fall away" are found in Hebrews6:6.

You also stated that the falling away spoken of in Thessalonians in only concerning the anti-christ. I do not believe that to be the case. My bible makes a reference to 1 Tim 4:1 from Thessalonians "unless the falling away comes first".

1 Tim 4:1 Now the spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

The above verse does not appear to be concerning only the anti-christ in that it says SOME will depart from the faith.

Do you still not believe that it is possible to fall away? or do you just believe that it isnt possible for you?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
you want come out and say it because it is forbidden on the board but what you are teaching is pure Calvinism....
Calvinism is no longer forbidden as long as people don't try to force their views on others. But NO I DO NOT TEACH CALVINISM.

Eternal security is the work of God which guarantees that the gift of salvation, once received, is forever and cannot be lost. The concept of eternal security emphasizes God’s activity in guaranteeing the eternal possession of the gift of eternal life. It relates to those the Holy Spirit regenerates.

Security focuses on God —it is God who secures our salvation. It does not deny that there may be times of stumbling, but it stresses the need for demonstrable fruit throughout the Christian life.

The Holy Spirit produces the blessed fruit of the Christian life (Gal. 5:22, 23).

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Carol Swenson
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THE HOLY SPIRIT EMPOWERS THE BELIEVER FOR LIFE AND SERVICE

Rom. 8:2—“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death” (also vv. 9-11). There are two natures in the believer: the flesh and the Spirit (Gal. 5:17). But while the believer is still in the flesh, he does not live after the flesh (Rom. 8:12, 13). The Holy Spirit enables the believer to get constant and continual victory over sin. A single act of sin a believer may commit; to live in a state of sin is impossible for him, for the Spirit which is within him gives him victory, so that sin does not reign over him. The eighth chapter of Romans exhibits a victorious life for the believer. The Spirit in the heart is the secret of victory over sin.

Then note how the Holy Spirit produces the blessed fruit of the Christian life (Gal. 5:22, 23). What a beautiful cluster of graces! How different from the awful catalogue of the works of the flesh (vv. 19-21). Look at this cluster of fruit. There are three groups: the first, in relation to God—love, joy, peace; the second, in relation to our fellowman—longsuffering, gentleness, goodness; the third, for our individual Christian life—faith, meekness, self-control.


THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE GUIDE OF THE BELIEVER’S LIFE

He guides him as to the details of his daily life , Rom. 8:14; Gal. 5:16, 25—“Walk in the Spirit.” There is no detail of the believer’s life that may not be under the control and direction of the Spirit. “The steps [and, as one has well said, ‘the stops’] of a good man are ordered by the Lord.”

The Holy Spirit guides the believer as to the field in which he should labor . How definitely this truth is taught in the Acts: 8:27-29; 16:6, 7; 13:2-4. What a prominent part the Spirit played in selecting the fields of labor for the apostles! Every step in the missionary activity of the early church seemed to be under the direct guidance of the Spirit.

(The Great Doctrines of the Bible)

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Carol Swenson
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Hi Betty Louise,

I know they say that. No matter how many times we say we do not teach license to sin, they still say that. No matter how many times we say that we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and we are led by the Holy Spirit, they still accuse us. No matter how many times we say that our purpose is to bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit; we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit; we are not to quench the Holy Spirit. They still insist we teach license to sin.

They condemn it as the "secure-in-sin" doctrine. They say it's a lie from Satan. They call it a damnable doctrine.

It reminds me of Matthew 12...


Matthew 12:24 - 37 (NLT)
24 But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, “No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons.”

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and replied, “Any kingdom divided by civil war is doomed. A town or family splintered by feuding will fall apart. 26 And if Satan is casting out Satan, he is divided and fighting against himself. His own kingdom will not survive. 27 And if I am empowered by Satan, what about your own exorcists? They cast out demons, too, so they will condemn you for what you have said. 28 But if I am casting out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has arrived among you. 29 For who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger—someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house. 30 “Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me, and anyone who isn’t working with me is actually working against me.

31 “ Every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.

33 “A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. 34 You brood of snakes! How could evil men like you speak what is good and right? For whatever is in your heart determines what you say. 35 A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. 36 And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak. 37 The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.”

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becauseHElives
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“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. (Gen 3:4)

Satan loves it, you OSAS teachers keep telling people that, you will help him fill up hell with that lie....

quote:
The belief that we control our own salvation is a sin of pride.
no Betty we don't control our salvation in the sense you are putting forth but we are to teach self control, self sacrifice, self crucifixion to the desires, lust and passions of the flesh...

you, Carol and other Once saved always Saved teachers take away all responsibility of man for his action after he or she is "saved"...

You disregard all warnings given to the believer by Yahshua, the Apostle and the Prophets of Old for living a Holy (separated life) from this world...

you teach that the saved saint will be forgiven because of one little prayer they said when they were 9 years old or some other age,...

you completely disregard the path that Yahshua said must be traveled....

you want come out and say it because it is forbidden on the board but what you are teaching is pure Calvinism....

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Betty Louise
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Some people think OSAS is a license to sin.

As Paul said: Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


OSAS is not about freedom to sin, but freedom to live a Christian life without fear that God is going to drop you out of His hands.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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The people who are opposed to OSAS always say the same thing over and over and over...

"If you live a life of sin and unbelief then you will not be saved."

Well shucks folks, we know that already.

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Kindgo
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Since a person is never completely free of sin, it is sometimes difficult to accept the fact that forgiveness is whole and permanent.

Once a person has accepted Christ, the devil can do nothing except to make him doubt or feel unworthy.

Satan knows that if he can cause doubt to spring up in the life of a believer, he can rob that believer of the joys of being a Christ-follower.

The best and most sure way to know that you are saved is the simple phrase: Because the Bible says so!

If you have come to the Lord in repentance of your sin and asked Him to be Lord of your life, then you are saved.

1 John 1:9 promises, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

God loves you so much that He gave the life of His only Son to pay for your sins.

Do you think that God would do that, and then not keep His promise?

If you are still in doubt, please contact a trusted pastor who can help you through this. God bless you as you diligently seek Him!

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Betty Louise
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The belief that we control our own salvation is a sin of pride. We cannot save ourselves nor can we maintain our salvation. When someone says that Jesus saves our past, present, and future sins, they are speaking the truth. In the sense that Bible says the He knew us even before we were born.
God knows everything. He knew what sins we would commit before we were born. So in a sense He died for our sins before we were born. This does not mean we do not have to ask forgiveness. But, nothing we do is a shock to God.
God does not save us and then removes salvation from us. We will be judged for unrepentant sins whether on this earth or in Heaven.

Where the mistake comes in, is that people think that OSAS believes one can walk down the aisle get "saved" and live like the devil the rest of your life and be saved. If you do not have any fruit of the Spirit in your life, you are not saved. True salvation brings about change. It is not a question of whether salvation can be lost, but more of a question of whether salvation was real in the first place. Crying tears over being caught in sin is often not from a repentant heart but of shame of being caught.
If you do not bear fruit and if sin in your life does not grieve you, you may not be saved in the first place. The Bible says that the Sheep know the voice of God. If a person is not a Sheep, he is a goat. A Christian should seek forgiveness every day, not because God is standing over us taking salvation back every time we sin but because our sins should grieve us just as much as they do God. Just think of it this way, every time your mate says unkind thing, reacts in an unkind way, you do not divorce them, but you do appreciate them apologizing for their actions.
If a car pulls out in front of you on the freeway and a bad word comes out of your mouth, God does not yank the blood of Jesus off you and say: "Sorry Charlie, your salvation is lost". His blood is sufficient for our sins. The difference in a saved person who sins, is a saved person is grieved by their sins and if they don't repent, God will punish them until they repent. A sinner can sin day after day and feel not guilt.
If your the devil's child he doesn't care if you sin.
It is not a question of whether you are in danger of losing your salvation, but a question if you as a child of God are seeking to walk with God and live for Him in a way that is pleasing to Him.
Salvation is not a free ticket to sin, but a freedom to live for Christ, knowing we are safe and secure in Christ.

betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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becauseHElives
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The "Once Saved Always" crowd have embraced Satan's lie...and teaching it as truth

“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. (Gen 3:4)

the person that is not continually calling on the mercies of Yahweh, continually recognizing the daily need for forgiveness, are resting not in Yahshua but in their own self deluded righteousness.

There are many death blows to eternal security found in Scripture. At the very core of this non-Christian doctrine is the concept that a person once saved (a righteous person) will not die spiritually over his sin. The clarity of the Scriptures to the contrary is overwhelming from Genesis through Revelation starting with the first time God ever spoke to Adam, which was his only commandment for him to observe and the consequence of disobedience:

And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die” (Gen 2:16,17)

Adam was righteous and resided in the garden of Eden, a paradise garden only for the righteous. He was expelled from it after he sinned and died, as warned. Adam died spiritually the same day he sinned, yet lived physically many years afterwards to be 930 years old (Gen. 5:5). As God’s first statement about sin was issued to a righteous man concerning his own spiritual death through sin, the devil’s first lie was devised to make Eve dismiss this eternal truth, which led to her disobedience and spiritual death. Please note that Eve never sinned until she was deceived into thinking that sin would not bring about her own spiritual death. Furthermore, the doctrine of eternal security is identical to the devil’s first lie, that is, the righteous will not die spiritually through sin:

“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. (Gen 3:4)

This same consequence of disobedience for the righteous is repeated later by the prophet Ezekiel:

Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. (Ezek 3:20)

But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. (Ezek 18:24)

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. (Ezek 18:26)

If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. (Ezek 33:13)

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. (Ezek 33:18)

Clearly, a righteous person can die spiritually because of his sin, which again is the antithesis of the teaching of eternal security.

New Testament warnings to the righteous about them dying through sin are repeated, especially by Paul and James. The familiarity between these and the Gen. 2:17 and Ezekiel passages is evident:

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (Rom 8:13)

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? (Rom 6:16)

Those Scriptures are written to the saints at Rome, who were righteous:

To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. (Rom. 1:7,8)

By the way, if the reader would compare Rom. 8:13 to Gal. 5:19-21 and 6:8,9, where Paul wrote the same truth three different ways, it becomes unmistakable that he was referring to the spiritual death of the righteous (not physical death) for those who live according to the sinful nature because he compared you will die in Rom. 8:13 to not inherit the kingdom of God in Gal. 5:19-21 and reap destruction instead of reap eternal life in Gal. 6:8,9. Apparently Paul repeatedly warned Christians of this possibility, unlike our dark day which denies these same eternal truths. Especially focus on Gal. 5:21.

James describes the sinning process, which leads to the spiritual death of the righteous:

but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers. (James 1:14-16)

As already shown this sinning process to spiritual death dates back to the Garden of Eden, then to Ezekiel, then to Paul the grace teacher. James elaborated upon this eternal truth at the very end of his own epistle:

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20, NASB)

Notice how straying from the truth (a name for Jesus in John 14:6) is to jeopardize the soul of the righteous person to (eternal) death. But if that same person is brought back where he was before he strayed, his soul will once again be safe (or saved) in the truth. Also shown here is the truth that a saved person can become a sinner again, by straying from the truth.
How the Righteous Can Prevent Their Own Spiritual Death
The Lord Himself taught how the righteous can prevent their own spiritual death:

I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. (John 8:51)

Clearly, the Lord was not talking about physical death, since many righteous people remained faithful to the very end, such as the Apostle Paul did, yet died physically. Again, since Paul died physically, Jesus couldn’t have been referring to physical death. Hence, the Lord gave the preventative to spiritual death as being simply to keep his word or continue to obey to the end.

Jesus restated the same eternal safeguard for spiritual death in different words when he spoke the following:

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25,26)

The word translated “believes” in v. 26 is a continuous tense in the Greek. Jesus declared that the righteous would never die spiritually as long as they maintained this type of belief, which is shown elsewhere as being a trusting, submitting, obeying faith which produces good fruit and holy behavior. In other words, the Lord was saying in John 11 that a righteous person would have to continue to believe so he would not die spiritually, which does not always happen. The Lord taught elsewhere that it is possible for a believer to become an unbeliever, at which point he would fall away as a result:

Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. (Luke 8:13)

That was the Lord’s own interpretation of the following verse:

Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. (Luke 8:6)

To save their doctrine, the eternal security teachers (the Scripture distorters) sometimes amazingly argue that the people of Luke 8:13 only had a spurious or false faith, but that is not the text speaking—just their own faulty theology. Not only does Lk. 8:13 say such people did believe for a while, it also states that they receive the word with joy. Real, genuine plant life, likened unto spiritual life, sprung up from the word of God, which was received with joy. The problem is such don’t continue with God because they fail the test of persecution for godly living.
They Received the Word
To receive the word as in Luke 8:13 is the same description of what happened to Cornelius and his household who experienced true salvation. Just before Peter retold what happened with them we read:

The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. (Acts 11:1)

Similar to that are two additional Scriptures which refer to others who likewise received the word of God. According to the context, such describes that they got saved after receiving the word of God:

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: (Acts 8:12-14, KJV)

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. (Acts 17:11,12, KJV) Please note that the same Greek word translated received in Luke 8:13 is also found in Acts 8:14; 11:1 and 17:11. Luke 8:13 is referring to people who had experienced true salvation, just like these other Scriptures do because such people received the word. Yet the Luke 8:13 passage states they ceased believing.

Getting back to John 8:51 and 11:25,26, the Lord shared the same facts as stated there in yet a different Scripture, also from John:

I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (John 6:47-51)

Please note the word believes in v. 47 is also a continuous tense in the Greek. Believing in Jesus is compared to eating the bread of life, which will prevent spiritual death, and enable one to live forever. We eat this bread by continuing or maintaining our submissive faith in Jesus, that same truth as shown at John 11:25, 26. When one continues to believe he will keep God’s word, the preventative for the righteous dying spiritually, as stated in John 8:51.

At another time, the Lord spoke to those on the very edge of spiritual death in Rev. 3:2:

Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.

Please note it was the personal responsibility of the ones about to die to strengthen themselves spiritually. God was not going to do it for them, even though it was His will for them to be strengthened. The spiritual negligence and sloth of the righteous can be fatal.
Be Faithful, Even to the Point of Death
The Rev. 3:2 passage is similar to the warning given by the Lord in the preceding chapter to faithful Christians:

Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death. (Rev 2:10,11)

Certainly, spiritual death is implied since the faithful Christians at Smyrna were warned by Jesus to continue being faithful to the point of physical death (to overcome), so that they would not be hurt at all by the second death. The second death is another name for the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14; 21:8).

So what happens to a person with spiritual life (a Christian) who is not faithful to the end of his life? He will die spiritually. This possibility of the righteous dying spiritually is reiterated yet another time by the Lord himself, yet ends joyfully because he repents and returns to salvation:

For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found. So they began to celebrate. (Luke 15:24)

But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found. (Luke 15:32)

Please note that the prodigal was spiritually dead and spiritually lost at the same point in time, that is when he was in sexual immorality and wild living. After he repented he became alive again. Those words are very important. It says again. That means he had spiritual life before he left the Father to indulge in wild living and sexual immorality. He got that same spiritual life back again when he repented and returned to serve the Father. In other words, he was righteous yet died spiritually through sin (became lost) and later became spiritually alive again when he turned from his wickedness to serve God. (This is Jesus’ teaching not some cultist or so-called works salvation person.) Hence, as Jesus taught elsewhere that one passes from spiritual death to spiritual life at the point of getting born again, He also taught the same person can pass back from spiritual life to spiritual death through sin, as happened to the prodigal.

This same truth about spiritual death for the righteous is echoed by the Apostle John in his first epistle:

If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. (1 John 5:16)

John wrote about the spiritual death of the righteous here. He stated that sin would bring that about as happened to Adam, as well as the prodigal. Another definite example of a righteous man dying, but not physically, was King David when he turned to do evil. Ezekiel warned such a righteous person will die, yet David continued to live physically as did Adam and the prodigal. These facts, of course, are all opposed by the eternal security teachers who want us to believe the devil’s teaching, as stated in Gen. 3:4. They agree with the devil and try to confuse the issue by saying the death of 1 John 5:16 is physical death, with Ananias and Sapphira being examples. In other words, they believe God in his wrath over their sin of lying to the Holy Spirit struck them dead in their unrepentant wickedness and rewarded them by taking them quicker into His paradise kingdom, which is reserved only for the holy and pure of heart. By teaching like this the eternal security teachers not only proclaim a license for immorality, but also contradict yet another Scripture, which shows that all liars will go to the lake of fire:

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. (Rev 21:8)

For some reason the eternal security teachers seem oblivious to Scriptures which show that God does sometimes strike the wicked (or unsaved) physically dead for their sin:

But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the LORD put him to death. (Gen 38:7)

Those Widows Died Spiritually
Last but not least, let’s not forget the widows of 1 Tim. 5:6, which Paul wrote of:

But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.

Immediately afterwards, he refers to some widows that turned from their dedication to Christ (v. 11) to follow Satan (v. 15). Notice: those widows Paul knew didn’t die physically, yet were dead (spiritually) because of their sins. This passage doesn’t refer to those never saved, as we may assume could be the case in Lk. 9:60 and Mt. 8:22, but instead to those who were once alive spiritually like the prodigal, because they previously had a dedication to Christ and later turned away from it.

Green renders 1 Tim. 5:6, as follows:

But she who lives in self-pleasure has died while living.

Dear reader, don’t be deceived by those parroting the devil’s first lie to our generation, the eternal security teachers. The Bible is clear that the righteous will die spiritually, if they turn to do evil, as Adam, King David, the prodigal and the widows of 1 Tim. 5:6 did, which is also the clear teaching of Ezekiel. If you are a real Christian, you must faithfully follow Jesus and endure persecution for living godly to the end of your life to enter God’s kingdom. Don’t be deceived by the false teachers who want to convince you otherwise.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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Betty Louise [thumbsup2]

The only sin God will not forgive, the unpardonable sin, is to reject Jesus Christ.

Each of us is controlled either by light or darkness. The frightening thing is that some people have so hardened themselves against the Lord that they cannot tell the difference! They think they are following the light when, in reality, they are following the darkness. The scribes and Pharisees claimed to “see the light” as they studied the Law, but they were living in the darkness (see John 12:35-50).

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Betty Louise
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Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.
Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

One way to judge your own salvation is this: When you sin if you do not seek forgiveness if God does not correct you, you should wonder about your salvation. God will correct His children when they misbehave. If you live continuously in a sinful lifestyle, and you are God's child, he will punish you. You can reach a point that you have committed the sin unto death. At this point, if you refuse God's correction, you can cause your life to be shorten. How shameful, would it be to face God and have Him tell us that because we were so stubborn, that He had to take us out of this life early.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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oneinchrist
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I have to admit that the view that I once held as salvation being a one-time event(upon initial confession of faith in Jesus) has been shaken.

Paul oftentimes uses the words "having been saved", but Jesus frequents the use of the words "will be saved". This sure makes things confusing if you ask me.

Even with all the confusion I believe that I have finally come to a conclusion which is scripturally sound....that is that no matter what doctrine we decide to hold to ..... that there will be for each and every one of us a "real" test of our faith over time, of which comes only in the face of the "real" adversary. But if there is no resistance, then one would have to question whether or not one is "really" in the faith.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
So what some of you is saying if you sit around and think of sinning and later carry this sin out you are already forgiven; because God has forgiven you of all your sins past, present, and future.
No, we do not teach that it is okay to sin. But God is omniscient. When He saved us, yes He knew everything we have done and will do.

Only Jesus Christ is perfect, the rest of us are being progressively sanctified, which includes chastisment.

Chastisement at the hand of God is the experience of every Christian. Individuals who are not true children of God know nothing of it, Heb. 12:8; 1 Pet. 5:9. Scourging in Heb. 12:6 is understood to refer to the breaking of the stubborn human will. Chastening includes every form of discipline imposed by a loving Father as He prepares His children to reign with Christ.

quote:
Well if that's the case why would He let His only begotten Son died such a horrible death. Why would God let His only begotten Son go through the agony of being spit in the face, whipped with many stripes that took out peices of meat from His already tired body from carrying a cross. They mocked Him, humiliated Him and so on; a man who had no sins went through all of this for us who had many sins, for us to contiually keep on sinning after we say we are saved. GOD FORBID!!!!!
If we were able to live perfect sinless lives, then our Lord Jesus Christ would not have needed to die for us. He fullfilled the Law by living a perfect life, something we could never do. And...

2 Cor. 5:21 (RV)—“Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.”

Our Justification Is By the Blood of Jesus Christ

Rom. 3:24—“Being justified… through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.”

5:9—“Much more then, being now justified by his blood.”

The sacrifices of the Old Testament were more than a meaningless butchery—“Without shedding of blood is no remission” of sin (Heb. 9:22). The great sacrifice of the New Testament, the death of Jesus Christ, was something more than the death of a martyr—men are “justified by his blood” (Rom. 5:9).

In justification all our sins are forgiven, and the guilt and punishment thereof removed (Acts 13:38, 39; Rom. 8:1). God sees the believer as without sin and guilt in Christ (Num. 23:21; Rom. 8:33, 34).

There is also the imputation of the righteousness of Jesus Christ to the sinner. His righteousness is “unto all and upon all them that believe” (Rom. 3:22). See Rom. 5:17-21; 1 Cor. 1:30. For illustration, see Philemon 18.

Are we saved to be later rejected by the omniscient God who knew everything about our past, present, and future when He saved us? No.

Are we saved to do whatever we want? No.

We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. We are saved for the purpose of bearing fruit for the Lord.

Ephesians 2:10 (ESV)
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Kindgo, Carol, WildB, Grams.... all your beliefs are built on the idea that Salvation is instant and not progressive....

you need to study more closely the scripture....the scriptures do not teach instant salvation but a progressive salvation....

The inclusive sweep of salvation is underscored by observing the three tenses of salvation.

(1) The moment one believed he was saved from the condemnation of sin (Eph. 2:8; Titus 3:5).

(2) That believer is also being saved from the dominion of sin and is being sanctified and preserved (Heb. 7:25).

(3) And he will be saved from the very presence of sin in heaven forever (Rom. 5:9-10).


Point (2) "being saved from the dominion of sin" does not mean progressive salvation. It is continuous, not progressive.


Sanctification is progressive, not salvation.


We are saved by faith, not works.

Ephesians 2:8 - 10 (KJV)
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Salvation includes regeneration, justification, adoption, and sanctification.


Regeneration is a spiritual quickening, a New Birth

Regeneration is the impartation of a new and divine life; a new creation; the production of a new thing. It is Gen. 1:26 over again. It is not the old nature altered, reformed, or re-invigorated, but a new birth from above. This is the teaching of such passages as John 3:3-7; 5:21; Eph. 2:1, 10; 2 Cor. 5:17.


Justification is a change in a man’s relation or standing before God

It has to do with relations that have been disturbed by sin, and these relations are personal. It is a change from guilt and condemnation to acquittal and acceptance. Regeneration has to do with the change of the believer’s nature; justification, with the change of his standing before God. Regeneration is subjective; justification is objective. The former has to do with man’s state; the latter, with his standing.

The Condition of Justification is Believing in Jesus Christ

Gal. 2:16—“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,”

Rom. 3:26—“To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness; that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.” “Him that believeth in Jesus” is contrasted with “as many as are of the works of the law” (Gal. 3:10).


Adoption takes place the moment one believes in Jesus Christ

1 John 3:2—“Beloved, now are we the sons of God.”

Gal. 3:26—“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.” See also John 1:12.

Sonship is now the present possession of the believer. Strange as it may be, inconceivable as it may seem, it is nevertheless true. The world may not think so (1 John 3:1), but God says so, and the Christian believing it, exclaims, “I’m a child of the King.” Formerly we were slaves; now we are sons.


Regeneration begins the new life in the soul; justification deals with the new attitude of God towards that soul, or perhaps better, of that soul towards God; adoption admits man into the family of God with filial joy. Regeneration has to do with our change in nature; justification, with our change in standing; adoption, with our change in position.


Sanctification is our change in character

Sanctification is threefold:

Instantaneous Sanctification

1 Cor. 6:11—“And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” Heb. 10:10, 14—“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.… For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.” By the death of Jesus Christ the sanctification of the believer takes place at once. The very moment a man believes in Christ he is sanctified, that is, in this first sense: he is separated from sin and separated unto God. For this reason all through the New Testament believers are called saints (1 Cor. 1:2, rv; Rom. 1:7, rv).

Progressive Sanctification

Justification differs from sanctification thus: the former is an instantaneous act with no progression; while the latter is an act which is instantaneous and which at the same time carries with it the idea of growth unto completion.

2 Pet. 3:18—“But grow in [the] grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” 2 Cor. 3:18—We “are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.” The tense is interesting here: We are being transformed from one degree of character, or glory, to another. It is because sanctification is progressive, a growth, that we are exhorted to “increase and abound” (1 Thess. 3:12), and to “abound more and more” (4:1, 10) in the graces of the Christian life.

Complete and Final Sanctification

1 Thess. 5:23, rv—“And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” “Wholly” means complete in every part, perfect in every respect, whether it refers to the Church as a whole, or to the individual believer. Some day the believer is to be complete in all departments of Christian character—no Christian grace missing. Complete in the “spirit” which links him with heaven; in the “body” which links him with earth; in the “soul” as being that on which heaven and earth play. Maturity in each separate element of Christian character: body, soul, and spirit.

This blessing of entire and complete sanctification is to take place when Christ comes: 1 Thess. 3:13—“To the end that he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.” It is when we shall see Him that we shall be like Him (1 John 3:2).

(Great Doctrines Of The Bible)

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oneinchrist
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Psalm 19:13
Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

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The Beauty of Holiness777
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So what some of you is saying if you sit around and think of sinning and later carry this sin out you are already forgiven; because God has forgiven you of all your sins past, present, and future. Please tell me where this verse is in God's Word!!!

Because if that's the case why would He let His only begotten Son died such a horrible death. Why would God let His only begotten Son go through the agony of being spit in the face, whipped with many stripes that took out peices of meat from His already tired body from carrying a cross. They mocked Him, humiliated Him and so on; a man who had no sins went through all of this for us who had many sins, for us to contiually keep on sinning after we say we are saved. GOD FORBID!!!

Furthermore, the Law sentenced those that sinned to death sometimes right on the spot. Some would be taken on the outside of town and stoned. They Law never gave them a chance to repent nor change their ways the Law just did away with those who sinned and disobeyed.

Jesus said He did not come to CHANGE THE LAW BUT TO FULFILLED THAT WHICH WAS WRITTEN IN THE LAW.

Where the Law condemns you for your sins.
I (Jesus)who brings Grace and Mercy can forgive you of your sins.

Where the Law gives only death for your sins.
I (Jesus)who brings Grace and Mercy forgives and give you life even after death. For I can give you eternal life I give life abundantly.

Where the Law cannot help you.
I (Jesus) who brings Grace and Mercy am your very present help in the time of trouble.

By the Law all who sinned was put to death on the spot for their sins. Some was taking outside of town and stoned others were slaughtered with their families for their sins. There was no repentance, nor forgiveness for their sins by the Law.


As far as David and some of the other Patriots of the Old Testament "The Gift of Salvation" did not exist until after the death of Christ.
That is why scripture tells us how Jesus visited hell and set the captives free that were bound even there. He preached the Word to them and gave them a true chance for repentance and to be saved.

Read deeply in the scriptures even this too is gospel. Even though David hadn't receive the "Gift of Salvation" during the era he was in. He was a man after God's own heart because He beleived and knew God was God; and David was a War Warrior that had a heart of true repentance.

Romans 6:14 says;
Our sins were forgiven on the grounds that we have died to sin.

{WHERE A SINFUL NATURE REMAINS SIN WILL CONTINUALLY MANIFEST TISELF.}

But we who are saved by God's Grace whose sins were forgiven on the grounds that we have died to sin been buried by water baptisim for the remission of our sins through the blood of Jesus Christ shall sin no more.

UNLESS WE TRAMPLE ALL THIS UNDER FOOT, there is no room for the dominion of sin.

It has neither right nor power for we are not under the law-A dispensation (divine revelation in testing for man's obedience to God).
A dispensation of terror and bondage which only shows sin, WITHOUT enabling you to conquer it. (We had no power to help us fight sin under the Law)

Not saying that the Law was not true or good but man could not keep the Law by himself.

But through God's Holy Spirit those who have repented and are now saved live under Grace under the merciful dispensation (still a divine revelation testing man's obedience to God) of the gospel of God's Word.

Which brings complete victory over sin to everyone who is under the powerful influences of the Holy Spirit of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

Jesus said in Acts 1:8;
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.

Now my question is this;
If one who is born again and say they are saved will you keep sinning I am not talking about one sin or two sins. I am talking about continuous sin just because you think you will keep on being forgiven.

If so then you have no power [Frown] for if the Holy Spirit truly dwells in you then sin has no power no dominion over you.

In other words it will come up for temptations will always be around us but we don't have to carry it out!

No debate here just facts!

Love and Peace to All [Smile] And God still gets the Glory [clap2]

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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}

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becauseHElives
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Kindgo, do you know where to find the example of trampling the blood underfoot in the Old Testament?

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Kindgo
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(26-31) The danger of a willful rejection of Jesus’ perfect sacrifice for us.

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

a. For if we sin willfully: To sin willfully is defined in Hebrews 10:29. It speaks of someone who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace. It is a knowing, deliberate rejection of Jesus’ great work for us on the cross.

i. Sin willfully: In a sense, every sin is a “willful sin.” But here, the writer to the Hebrews speaks of something much more severe and relevant to these discouraged Jewish Christians who contemplated a retreat from a distinctive Christianity and a return to Judaism with its sacrificial system. This is turning your back on Jesus.

b. There no longer remains a sacrifice for sins: If Jesus’ sacrifice for sin is rejected, there remains no other sacrifice that can cleanse.

c. How much worse punishment: If someone does reject Jesus’ sacrifice, fearful judgment is certain, even more certain than it was under the Old Covenant.

d. When we sin willfully by rejecting Jesus’ work on the cross as sufficient, we have:

i. Trampled the Son of God underfoot: We have disgraced Him by rejecting His greatest work. We devalue Him by devaluing what He did.

ii. Counted the blood of the covenant . . . a common thing: We have considered that Jesus’ blood was of no greater importance than the countless animals that had been sacrificed under the Old Covenant.

iii. Insulted the Spirit of grace: We offend the Holy Spirit, whose purpose it is to present Jesus and His work to us (John 16:8-15) when we reject Jesus and His finished work on our behalf. When we reject God’s free gift of grace and seek to be justified by law.

e. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God: It is fearful indeed to one-day face the God you have rejected and offended so greatly!


When we sin willfully by rejecting Jesus’ work on the cross as sufficient, we have:

i. Trampled the Son of God underfoot: We have disgraced Him by rejecting His greatest work. We devalue Him by devaluing what He did for us on the cross!

Please stop with the twisted scriptures

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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becauseHElives
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The security-in-sin teachers are spiritually dangerous people. Besides all of the other grievous declarations they make, some have also gone so far as to say that a Christian’s future sins are already forgiven, even before they are committed. Perhaps they teach this way in an effort to safeguard their doctrine of eternal security while they continue to tickle ears.

I have heard at least one state that if it was possible for a Christian to lose his salvation, it could only occur through sin. Hence, by removing (in their minds) the only danger to eternal security, they have erected an imagined indestructible shield for its protection.

(Unfortunately, like many other Scriptural issues, the eternal security teachers are oblivious to the two other ways a Christian can lose his salvation besides through sin: [1] Denying Jesus through persecution and [2] Accepting a wrong plan of salvation.

Here are two specific examples of what we are dangerously being taught from eternal security teachers Charles Stanley and David Jeremiah respectively:

No matter what you do as a child of God, you are forgiven.

You say, “Murder?” Forgiven.
“Stealing?” Forgiven.
“Adultery?” Forgiven.
“Worshiping Idols?” Forgiven.

Do you realize that when God forgives you, he forgives your past, your present and your future sin? Some people struggle with that terribly. They think that God only forgives them of all the sin they committed until they were converted. I had a lady tell me one day, she said, “You know, I know my sins were forgiven when I accepted Christ, but I’ve done a lot of other sin. How am I forgiven for that?” Well, you were already forgiven.


If you are a Christian, try to put yourself in their shoes thinking that your future sins are already forgiven before you commit them. If you accepted that premise, then your spiritual guard is not only down it is gone. You won’t ever need to guard against personal sin and its defiling abilities since you are already forgiven. This would mean you will always remain spiritually pure, just as you were the day you were saved, even if you would turn to sexual immorality, drunkenness, theft, idolatry, lying, murder, etc. You would never have to confess those sins to God that you committed after conversion, repent of them, forgive others who sinned against you, etc. to be purified, forgiven and cleansed, since you were never contaminated by any sin after conversion. In contrast, the spiritual danger of failing to do these is clear to anyone who has read through the New Testament with spiritual ears to hear and eyes to see, yet is seemingly hidden from the security-in-sin teachers themselves.

Let me cite some of the reasons why Christians reject the above deplorable teaching as taught by Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah and many others.

The Scriptural Evidence
Please notice what Jesus said to the Christians, after his infinite death on the cross for every person’s sins:

Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. (Rev 3:4)

Comment: All the other people in the church at Sardis did soil their spiritual clothes and were no longer worthy to walk with Jesus dressed in white. How did the majority, who were previously saved, get soiled? The answer is clear when you realize that sin can defile a Christian and even bring him to his spiritual death. That is why we have the following Scripture (among others):

... Do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. (1 Tim 5:22)

Paul believed Timothy could become spiritually defiled again through sin and consequently told Timothy to keep himself pure. That would be meaningless, if Timothy would turn to sin and automatically be pre-forgiven. Paul (and others) were repeatedly teaching like this, even to the point of telling Christians they could die spiritually through sin and not inherit the kingdom of God:

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live (Rom 8:13)

but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers. (James 1:14-16)

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)

At this point, I could stop this article, for it has already been proven that sin committed after conversion can defile a Christian, bring him to his spiritual death and cause him not to inherit the kingdom of God. All of that would be impossible if his future sins were already forgiven before they were committed, like these popular savage wolves in sheep’s clothing want us all to believe.

What the Bible teaches about past sins being forgiven at the point of repentance and a submissive faith in Jesus (Acts 20:21 cf. 26:20) is shown in the following Scripture:

But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. (2 Pet 1:9)

That Scripture was written about any person who had been saved, but since has forgotten he was cleansed from his past sin. Please note, a Christian at the point of salvation is cleansed from all his sins up to that moment—his past sins, according to Peter. Similarly, Paul stated below:

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins (Col 2:13)

All our sins were forgiven in a moment’s time when we got born again. If a Christian is afterwards deceived or yields to the devil’s temptations to sin, the following is given as a remedy:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

The Apostle John put himself in on that Scripture by using the plural pronoun we. In other words, if we don’t confess those sins to God, which are committed after conversion, then we won’t be purified from their effects. (Apparently, no person who believes what the security-in-sin teachers proclaim about this will confess his sins to God and renounce them to get purified, since he thinks they are already forgiven.)

He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. (Prov 28:13)

There are other indications that a Christian’s future sins are not forgiven and that sin can spiritually defile a believer, even though Jesus died for all sins nearly 2000 years ago:

See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. (Heb 12:15)

Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Cor 7:1)

Also, notice the following Scripture which shows that the Apostle Paul knew of some who wandered away from a pure heart. In other words, sin can adversely affect a pure heart. This would be impossible if their future sins were already forgiven:

The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. (1 Tim 1:5,6)

As Christians, we are also to have a certain frame of mind, a certain type of hope that will purify:

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:2,3)

Jesus taught openly that sin can drag any lustful person to hell:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Mat 5:28,29)

The Lord also stated the stipulation for a Christian to get his sins forgiven, that is, he must forgive others who sin against him. Such a teaching would be impossible if his future sins were all automatically forgiven even before they were committed. If that was true then there would be no conditions to get forgiven, unlike what Jesus stated:

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14,15)

Then the master called the servant in. “You wicked servant,” he said, “I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?” In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart. (Mat 18:32-35)

That is not all we read about a Christian’s sins getting forgiven. The prayer of faith can bring healing to the body, as well as forgiveness of sins:

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. (James 5:14,15)

Another deathblow to the lie that a Christian’s future sins are already forgiven is the following passage:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. (Heb 10:26, 27)

Clearly, Heb. 10:26,27 is referring to people who had been converted then decided to deliberately sin in a certain way. Instead of believing the ear-tickling deadly lies of our day, let’s all cleave to the message of the Bible. Among other things it will show us the following, which also would be impossible if a Christian’s future sins were already forgiven:

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. (2 Pet 3:14)

Being found spotless, blameless and at peace with God is not automatic. Christians under grace are to put forth every effort to remain in this condition:

Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. (Luke 13:24)

Dear reader, don’t let yourself, family or friends be deceived by the eternal security teachers Scriptural distortions. Contend for the faith against their deadly teachings. Souls hang in the balance. God bless you.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Kindgo
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Isn't that glorious?

God'll never mention any of your past iniquities again as you turn to Jesus Christ.

God not remembering our sins again is true under grace, the grace of God whereby we have that forgiveness of sins.


Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.


Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.


Isa 43:25 I, [even] I, [am] he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.


Isa 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.


Mic 7:18 Who [is] a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth [in] mercy.


Mic 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.


Rom 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.


Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Betty Louise
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Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
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Notice it does not say "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and over time you will be saved. To believe that we are saved over time, is to believe that works adds to salvation. But the Bible says all of our righteousness is but filthy rags to God. There is nothing, NO WORK good enough to add one ounce to our salvation.
Only the blood of Jesus. When we get saved, Jesus does not sprinkle a drop of blood on our sins and says to us that if we serve long enough He will cover the rest of our sins. What if we were to die before all our sins were covered? No my friend, when we get saved, we are saved indeed.
Jesus' blood is sufficient. Praise His Name!


Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Kindgo
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John 10:28 “And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.”

“Eternal” and “never perish” means than no genuine child of God can lose his salvation.

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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becauseHElives
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ARE FUTURE SINS AUTOMATICALLY FORGIVEN?

Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) hinges on the theory that all sin (past, present, and future) are auto-forgiven at the first moment of true saving faith. The Bible has a different story.


Matthew 6:14-15
14: For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
(How can the Father not forgive your tresspasses, if they were already all forgiven -- past, present, and future?)


2 Corinthians 7:1
1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
(Speaking to the saved and washed, telling them to cleanse themselves of all filthiness. According to OSAS, they would have no filthiness to cleanse, because all sin -- past, present, and future -- is already forgiven, and hence, cleansed!)


Romans 3:24-25
24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(For the remission of sins that are past)


This last example is our final example, but can disprove the OSAS theory all by itself!

Matthew 18: 23. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33. Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34. And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


'Tis the truth: Your past sins can be brought back upon you.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Kindgo
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Messiah took care of all sin in one moment in time, past, present and future.

If all of your sins were taken to the cross, then that means, before you were born, everything you would do would be dealt with.

If you understand, on your own righteousness, that you are and always will be unworthy, and accept salvation, then that deals with all of that.

It does not give you a free pass to do anything without consequence, but it means you have passed from death unto life eternal and that is without repentance.

OSAS. Nothing we can do about it.

In the Hebrew, the sense of salvation of God is a continual, active and present tense.

It means you "were/are/will be" saved. it is past/present/future in it's manifestation.

It is as eternal as God, without beginning or end.

You just "jump in" the middle of the "salvation river".

Ain't that some good news or what?!

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Kindgo
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Romans 8:38-39 - "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation [including our own sins], will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

If it were possible to lose our salvation, where does God draw the line?

What sin is "going too far"?

What sin was the cross too weak to deal with?

If David could commit contract murder and adultery and yet be referred to as one "after God's own heart", then what on earth do we have to do to "lose our salvation"?

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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becauseHElives
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Can one lose one's salvation? If yes how and if not why?

The apostle John wrote us a wonderful promise from God: John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Does this mean that once we accept Jesus in our heart by faith, and thus are saved, that we can do anything even immoral things, and we still will be saved? Let's see what the Scriptures says about this.

1 Tim 4:1: "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

This text shows that Christians can loose their salvation if they follow deceiving spirits.

2 Peter 2:20-22: "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: 'A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.'"

The apostle Peter indicates clearly here that it is worst for someone who has accepted Jesus in his life to return to his old ways than "not to have known the way of righteousness". Why? The book of Hebrews explains this for us.

Heb 6:4-6: "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

This text describes Christians who not only accepted Jesus by faith into their life, but also personally tasted God's Holy Spirit. What happens to them if they "fall away'? This text is clear. It is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance, and thus obtain eternal salvation, because they did sin against the Holy Spirit. They have lost it!

Heb 10:26-28: "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

Here we see clearly that once we have accepted Jesus in our life, we just can't go on living as if He did not exist, and "deliberately keep on sinning". What would be the result if you did? Would you still obtain eternal salvation? The Bible says that these will have "a fearful expectation of judgment". There again, they have lost their salvation.

The apostle Paul confirms this in 1 Cor 15:1-2: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."

In other words, if someone does not hold on firm to God's word, he/she has "believed in vain".

An example that one can loose his/her salvation is King Saul. He was chosen by God to be the first king of Israel. He was filled with God's Spirit at first (1 Samuel 10 6), but because of his pride and evil actions, never repenting from what he did wrong, eventually God's Spirit departed from him 1 Sam 16:14 "Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul…" NIV King Saul had been saved, but he lost his salvation due to his unrepentant heart. How sad!

These texts clearly contradict the theory of "Once saved, always saved". This theory is simply not Biblical. Will you trust in our Lord and give your life to Him? Don't spoil what blessings you have received from Him. Don't let yourself be dissuaded by the philosophies of our world. Only God can give you eternal salvation and will give you the strength to hold on till the end. All you need to do is trust in Him and accept Him fully in your life.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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becauseHElives
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Kindgo, Carol, WildB, Grams.... all your beliefs are built on the idea that Salvation is instant and not progressive....

you need to study more closely the scripture....the scriptures do not teach instant salvation but a progressive salvation....

all of nature teaches seed time and harvest....

the word that comes through preaching is continually referred to as a seed...Yahshua said to His disciples, if you do not understand "this Parable" the Parable of the sower, they would not understand any of His doctrine.

first the blade, then the head, after that the full grain in the head (Mark 4:28,

until Christ is formed in you” (Galatians 4:19)

for the new creation to be able to come forth, there must first be time in the womb of Yahweh.

or if you want to look at it another way the seed must lay in the earth until certain processes take place before the seed comes forth unto life...

but there is no instant life as taught by the "Once Saved Always Saved" crowd

some seeds never have a chance to even begin to grow because Satan steals them....

some seeds begin to grow only to be scorched by the sun and die....

some seeds make it to growth but are choked out by weeds...

all those seeds are the same eternal seeds of Yahweh's word

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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