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Author Topic: What is abiding?
Michael Harrison
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Jesus brake the the loaf and the fishes. Think about it. He broke the food and gave to someone. Yet His hand was still full with the original loaf and fishes. When He had fed the five thousand, He still had enough left over to brake more, if it were needed. It is like dipping into the jar of wine and drawing for many more people than the jar would allocate. Yet when you look inside, it is still full. Jesus is like that!! Praise God. Jesus is like that. This is who He is to us. He is infinite supply. This is a picture of who He is to us.

"Freely ye have received. Freely give."

What could possibly prevent this well from bubling over? Nothing. But for lack of faith, one does not see it. But according to scripture, it is there, and it doesn't run dry. If one doesn't see it, they are witholding something in their heart. Let Him change your heart. He will give you a new one, whoever you are reading this!

If people would only realize, Christians spend what time they do in prayer, asking God to 'do what He has already done (and is doing), and asking Him to BE who He already IS! Charles Trumbull says, "It is not in asking, but in thanking; not in praying, but praising."

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Michael Harrison
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quote:
There's more to it than just being a vessel. Using the coffee cup analogy, how is that cup filled then?
First of all carmela, you never, ever have to be half empty. That is not His love for us. It is not His design. It is our own faith shortcoming. Oh that people would only get this. This is the message of Watchman Nee and the others I post. So, how is that cup filled? You 'have' His filling. This is what scripture says. Nowhere does it say for you to be refilled. He fills you. That is what scripture says. You do not have to earn it even by seeking Him!!! Even that is 'works'. You do not have to 'do' what you have. You do not have to seek - what you have.

You ask, "Where is it?" Ask Him to show you. You never have to be out of His presence. You never have to 'feel' separate from Him. And HE doesn't want you to. This is why I say that one starts to please God when he or she says that they do not want to be in control. For we can only fail. And did you not ask Him to be Lord of your life? Moreover, the Glory is His. Dominion is His. How dare we take it out of His hands. And we do not begin to know it as long as we withold anything from His control.


quote:
We have to go to the Lord daily to be filled. The more we seek Him, the more anointing that if poured into our cups. The fuller we become. If I start feeling empty, tired and weary, I go before the Lord and He fills me up again. He refreshes my cup so that it will over flow.

As I go throughout my day, I'm pouring out the contents of my cup. By the end of the day, it's empty or maybe half full. So, I need to once again, go before the Lord and be filled up again. The more I seek Him, the less empty I find my cup.

You do not even have to seek what you have. He is doing it in you. Read the scriptures and reaiize it. Copy this and re-read it.

He says that "Rivers of living waters will flow from your innermost being." That is because He is in you. He is the well. He is a bottomless well. It doesn't run dry, therefore we do not need to be refilled. The coffee cup is continually filled if He is in you. It only becomes empty when your faith is empty.hh

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
I have said it before, and it is wonderfully confusing: You do not 'do' what you have. What you have is 'done'! He did it on the Cross, and is presently 'doing' it even as we trust. Our 'doing' does not accomplish it. It does however 'recognize' it. That is called 'following' as opposed to thinking that whatever we do merits favor, or action, or HIS activity, or benefit. Thank you! I am excited too! We don't 'work' for what we have. We walk in it, if we will bless Him. By this we know that we are the sons of God, in that we are led of the Spirit.

But the point is that we do not 'cause' anything. That would be glory stealing.

christunione@gmail.com

We haev His ENTIRE Life Living in us Michael.
Past, present and future, for Jesus is the Eternal Life of God!

Romans 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Don't fail to see Jesus in Eden, you are missing a WONDERFUL BLESSING! [Kiss]

2 Corinthians 10:2
But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:16-19
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by Carmela:
There's more to it than just being a vessel. Using the coffee cup analogy, how is that cup filled then?

We have to go to the Lord daily to be filled. The more we seek Him, the more anointing that if poured into our cups. The fuller we become. If I start feeling empty, tired and weary, I go before the Lord and He fills me up again. He refreshes my cup so that it will over flow.

As I go throughout my day, I'm pouring out the contents of my cup. By the end of the day, it's empty or maybe half full. So, I need to once again, go before the Lord and be filled up again. The more I seek Him, the less empty I find my cup.

By Grace it is so!

AMEN!

Psalm 23
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Carmela
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There's more to it than just being a vessel. Using the coffee cup analogy, how is that cup filled then?

We have to go to the Lord daily to be filled. The more we seek Him, the more anointing that if poured into our cups. The fuller we become. If I start feeling empty, tired and weary, I go before the Lord and He fills me up again. He refreshes my cup so that it will over flow.

As I go throughout my day, I'm pouring out the contents of my cup. By the end of the day, it's empty or maybe half full. So, I need to once again, go before the Lord and be filled up again. The more I seek Him, the less empty I find my cup.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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Michael Harrison
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Then I take it that your 'trusting', which is an !action! on your part, makes something happen, as though 'you', 'do' whatever accomplishes your salvation, healing, restoration, faith, or any manifestation of the Spirit, rather than HiM? Trusting makes nothing happen. It receives what HE has already done, and is for that matter doing.

WE are containers. We are clay pots! We contain the creator. That is how HE made us to be. If this seems debatable, remember HE said that, "We are the Temple of God." That is a meeting place that HE comes into. And there is this scripture:

  • 2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


We are the earthen vessles [clay pots]. The excellency of the power is he who is in the earthen vessles!

A coffee cup holds coffee. So that is 'doing' something. It can receive the coffee. It can overflow. But it does nothing to receive the coffee. It can be used! But it is used in the hand of the user. It doesn't go to the coffee pot and pour itself full. It doesn't get drank from by anything it does.

Unlike the coffee cup, we have something akin to a lid, which can be closed. That would be our heart, and will. But we can be used if we remove the lid, which is 'doing' something, but adds nothing to His works, of what HE is doing. We simply receive, if we believe, and we may have something to 'do' but what we 'do' receives, not creates, or initiates. Otherwise it would be works of effort, which would indicate 'righteousness' on our part, and we know that we are not righteous. All our righteousness is as a filthy rag, which means, what we 'try to do' comes up way short, and therefore is useless. But some insist on 'trying' anyway, when all they have to 'do' is have!

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Eden
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Hi, Michael Harrison, you said:
quote:
You do not 'do' what you have. What you have is 'done'! He did it on the Cross, and is presently 'doing' it even as we trust.
Perhaps a difference between you and me is that I think that "trusting" is also "doing something", namely, "trusting" is an action on my part, and I consider that "doing". Perhaps I should ask you for ur definition of "doing"?

love, Eden
"make love our aim"

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Michael Harrison
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I have said it before, and it is wonderfully confusing: You do not 'do' what you have. What you have is 'done'! He did it on the Cross, and is presently 'doing' it even as we trust. Our 'doing' does not accomplish it. It does however 'recognize' it. That is called 'following' as opposed to thinking that whatever we do merits favor, or action, or HIS activity, or benefit. Thank you! I am excited too! We don't 'work' for what we have. We walk in it, if we will bless Him. By this we know that we are the sons of God, in that we are led of the Spirit.

But the point is that we do not 'cause' anything. That would be glory stealing.

christunione@gmail.com

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Eden
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I agree, Michael Harrison, when you wrote "It is the thinking that is involved that is at fault. For if one thinks that they can 'add to' by trying, they labor in vain (Cain)."

It is a matter of trusting, not of thinking. Howbeit, trusting is also an action word, it is also a "doing". What am I "doing"? I am "trusting" God to know what's best for my life, and that includes the smallest details in my daily life. I am now often saying, Oh, thank You, Holy Spirit, for showing me that", like leading me to the balcony if I left something there that I should not have left there; and so it goes, all daylong, just wonderful. God shows me the best and gives me the best, to fit my budget and personality. Thank You, Jesus!!

"Delight yourself also in the LORD, and He will give YOU the DESIRES of your heart". [roll on floor]

love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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Thanks zeena!

So, quite simply, 'doing' is not to be confused with 'following;' for serving, which is following, is not the same as 'doing', which is same as the sacrifice of Cain, of offering what one wants to offer thinking it has merit.

It is the thinking that is involved that is at fault. For if one thinks that they can 'add to' by trying, they labor in vain (Cain). There is a difference between the 'good intentions', and the "GIFT." Good intentions trump the GIFT, and foil the benefit. So scripture says to give up the 'good intentions' because HE has HIS own good intentions which will be fulfilled in you if you will lay down your life to HIM. But the flesh will be manifest - if you don't.

  • Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

...if in your heart you do not frustrate HIS grace!

Understanding (truly) is in the heart!

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Zeena
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[thumbsup2] Love you Michael, in Christ! [spiny]

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Michael Harrison
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And even more exactly, He is 'overridden', which is the point. Whenever HE is overridden, it is because we are not abiding. When HE is overridden, we are 'out' of His rest. When HE is overridden, we are 'alive to self'. When HE is overridden, we are greater, and HE is lesser. HE is overridden when we 'do' instead of "follow," which means we are alive and HE is not.

quote:
God has provided the written Word of God for us and prayer and listening to the Holy Spirit, as tools for our sanctification. The notion that "it is all God Who does the doing" in sanctification, is wrong; if we do not regularly read the Word of God and if we do not pray and do not listen to the Holy Spirit, God can talk all He wants but "ain't nobody gonna get sanctified".

Then you don't want to hear. The word of God will not change. Ye do resist the truth. If it isn't God that does all the doing, then you [/]'merit'[/b] by doing, which is trying to 'keep the law', which will not accomplish a heavenly thing. It is not that one shouldn't read or pray (which is doing), for that is covered in the scriptures:

  • Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.


But they don't accomplish, by this, what HE has done and is doing.

Now, when one knows what it means to (1Th 5:17) "Pray without ceasing," then they know and understand sanctification. For it is a life of praying, literally without ceasing, which cannot be accomplished without "Walking in the Spirit." If one believes not this, try to "Pray without ceasing for a few hours. For that matter, try it even for an hour.


[Prayer]

So if one wants something to 'do', they should keep it simple and:
  • 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:


Otherwise they beateth the very air:

  • 1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:


For one should not beateth the air, or:

  • 1Co 3:12 "build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;"


Both of which cause the believer to:

  • 1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.


So!
  • Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.



Because, after all, by 'doing' to merit His favor:
  • Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

...which means that there is nothing you can do in serving that will accomplish anything whatsoever that HE has already done. IT is simply taking (or trying) to take credit for what He has done, and is doing. But on that point, this is as profound as a meterior impact:

  • 1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.


For that is what happens when we try to 'do' instead of letting HIM 'do it'.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
quote:
Don't you know that my life with God's counsel has resulted in EVEN MORE DOING than I was doing before I was saved, and I am EVEN MORE ACTIVE now than I was before?

[cool_shades] Exactly! That is the problem. You are active, and He is dormant.1
Abiding is not passive bro. [Eek!]

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Yet, it is HIS SPIRIT that does the work as we trust, rest and abide, recieving the Salvation of our SOULS.. [Wink]

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Don't you know that my life with God's counsel has resulted in EVEN MORE DOING than I was doing before I was saved, and I am EVEN MORE ACTIVE now than I was before?

[cool_shades] Exactly! That is the problem. You are active, and He is dormant.1
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Eden
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Michael Harrison said:
quote:
The truth is that the things that one does to accomplish sanctification only defeats it, because one is trying to help God, and God doesn't need help.
God has provided the written Word of God for us and prayer and listening to the Holy Spirit, as tools for our sanctification. The notion that "it is all God Who does the doing" in sanctification, is wrong; if we do not regularly read the Word of God and if we do not pray and do not listen to the Holy Spirit, God can talk all He wants but "ain't nobody gonna get sanctified".

Salvation is mostly a one-sided thing, where God thru Jesus does almost everything; the only thing we have to do for salvation is "to believe and then to keep on believing".

But sanctification is a partnership between God and the believer; to "abide in Christ" requires work ("faith without works is dead"). If I don't do nothing, nothing new is going to happen in me. I'll just be saved, but not sanctified; carnal, but not spiritual. To be sanctified I have to read the Word (that can take years of work) and pray regularly, making petitions as well as listening; all of that takes time and work.

"Abiding in Christ" is not merely a concept; it is action, action, action, on my part as well as on God's part.

love, Eden

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Carmela
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Wildb, my blood is on the hands of Jesus. When I gave him my life, He took all of me.

What I see many do is shoot out a quick word of judgment about a person being a false prophet, but ignoring the statement I quoted. Show me one false teaching in that paragraph, and I'll be more apt to incline my ear to you. Other wise, I would suggest actually reading some books by Watchman Nee and making your own judgments about his teachings rather than taking the words you have received from other men about him and then making them your own opinions.

I haven't read enough of the book to say what I think of him, but at least I do my own research instead of listening to another man's opinion.

Sadly, there are many things in the bible that I have noticed those that feel it's their "job" to expose false prophets are ignoring in their own lives. If the words in the bible were not meant for us today, then why did Jesus tell people to go out heal the sick, raise the dead, ect? Sadly, some people are missing out on all that God has for them because they are so closed minded and would rather be critical of others than search for the truth.

I'm not worried about my salvation. I thank you for worrying for me. My burden is on the shoulders of Jesus so He and you are welcome to do my worrying for me if you like. [Big Grin] [Kiss] I'm content leaving my focus on things from above, rather than man on earth.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Are you a Wife with children?

quote:
p166 The Spiritual Man
Most soulish believers assume an attitude of self-righteousness, though often it is scarcely detectable. They hold tenaciously to their minute opinions. It is doubtless correct to hold fast the basic and essential doctrines of the Bible, but certainly we can afford to grant others latitude on minor points. We may have the conviction that what we believe is absolutely right, yet for us to swallow a camel but also to strain out a gnat is not at all pleasing to the Lord. We ought to lay aside the small differences and pursue the common objective.



--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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quote:
WildB originally posted:
Walk on walk on...I have did my job to keep your blood off my head.

Yep.. Works.. [Frown]

quote:
WildB originally posted:
Now I can sit under my juniper tree.

Job 30:1-15

quote:
WildB originally posted:
Have a wonderful eternity.

Eternity is a Person WildB, not a time frame.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Carmela
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WildB, the reason I originally asked David to make a separate section for false prophets is to keep bible study (with my focus on the Lord) from being disrupted by false prophet arguments. Please show me one thing in what I quoted that does not line up with the word of God instead arguing who is false and who isn't in this section. I love you as a person, I don't love being distracted from the word however. It is you who completely took this post off topic. I refuse to attack you, I just ask that we keep our focus on Jesus, not man.

Zeena, you are a wise woman and I very much enjoy your posts. I didn't read your posts with WildB here, just your posts in general. It's a pleasure posting with you.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote to Carmela regarding Eden's quote
quote:
quote from Eden: immersion in Christ-related things, that I think is the key, that is...baptism onto sanctification. immersion in all things Christian is like baptism.
quote:
Answer of Michael Harrison:

This quote is the sum of Eden's thinking from some ongoing conversation. It reflects some conclusions that Eden has come to in the course of discussing these things. It typifies some things that are widely believed, but not so, which is why I loved to put it in quotes because it is about what one 'does' (not) to go deeper in Christ. I am not making light of Eden. So many people think this way.

When I read it it reminds me of doing things like going to church, and cell meetings. I think of going to the Christian bookstore and reading a Christian book like, "The purple pilled strife reducer." I think of getting together with Christian friends. But even if it means praying more, reading the bible more, fasting, or even preaching to someone, even these things will not accomplish the life that IS Christ, as much as they do shew a pattern of "will worship."

Thinking about it, baptism into sanctification may not be that far off, but not as related by the thinking shown forth here.

The truth is that the things that one does to accomplish sanctification only defeats it, because one is trying to help God, and God doesn't need help. I know it is all well meaning, but it is mislead. And one has to come to the realization before they will finally surrender. But what happens is that someone will exaust a lifetime trying, before they will come to a knowledge of the truth, if they ever do.

Hi, Michael Harrison, so what do you recommend then, that a person sits still or lays down and refuses to get going until "God does something in him which finally gets him up to go do something"?

What if God leads a believing person into finding the world's things empty and boring and God leads that person into more Bible reading ("study to show yourself approved") and into listening to praise and worship music ("God inhabits the praises of His people") and leads a believer to be "in this world but no longer of this world"?

We have to DO SOMETHING with our time after we wake up in the morning, and are you now suggesting that IT DOES NOT MATTER what we do with our daily time since "God is leading us from the inside anyway", so what if we are listening to rap music and so what if go see Freddie Kruger movie, it's all wonderful because "God is leading us on the inside" anyway?

But what if God has, over time, led me instead away from all the worldly thigns I was doing before I believed in Jesus and God has led me instead into Christian-related things so that when I get up in the morning, a praise song now is already singing in my spirit instead of a Rolling Stones song or another worldly song?

Are you saying that "it makes no difference" what I read and what I listen to since "I'm TOTALLY depending on God now" and there is NO MORE DOING?

What if the Holy Spirit Himself has led me from these worldly things and into Christian things, it all still requires that I GO DO what God has counselled me to DO. It is either ME telling myself what to do, or God counselling me what to do, but in either case I AM DOING SOMETHING...that is, unless I'm laying in bed all day and all week and the whole month and just lay there from now on, because, after all, "I'm just WAITING on God to counsel me now".

Don't you know that my life with God's counsel has resulted in EVEN MORE DOING than I was doing before I was saved, and I am EVEN MORE ACTIVE now than I was before?

Isaiah 33:15
He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly; he who despises the gain of oppression, who shakes his hands from accepting bribes, who stops his ears from hearing of blood, and shuts his eyes from seeing evil.

God has led me this way, not will power.

love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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carmela:

quote:
immersion in Christ-related things, that I think is the key, that is...baptism onto sanctification. immersion in all things Christian is like baptism.
This quote is the sum of e's thinking from some ongoing conversation. It reflects some conclusions that e has come to in the course of discussing these things. It typifies some things that are widely believed, but not so, which is why I loved to put it in quotes because it is about what one 'does' (not) to go deeper in Christ. I am not making light of e. So many people think this way.

When I read it it reminds me of doing things like going to church, and cell meetings. I think of going to the Christian bookstore and reading a Christian book like, "The purple pilled strife reducer." ( [Wink] ) I think of getting together with Christian friends. But even if it means praying more, reading the bible more, fasting, or even preaching to someone, even these things will not accomplish the life that IS Christ, as much as they do shew a pattern of "will worship."

Thinking about it, baptism into sanctification may not be that far off, but not as related by the thinking shown forth here.

The truth is that the things that one does to accomplish sanctification only defeats it, because one is trying to help God, and God doesn't need help. I know it is all well meaning, but it is mislead. And one has to come to the realization before they will finally surrender. But what happens is that someone will exaust a lifetime trying, before they will come to a knowledge of the truth, if they ever do.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Zeena:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
And this

So what?

Have you changed your stance to faith by works? [Confused]

Are you finding it hard to stay on topic?

These personal attacks are just plain silly.

It was a question! [Kiss]

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
And this

So what?

Have you changed your stance to faith by works? [Confused]

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Zeena:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Galatians 2


[4] And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
[5] To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

The gospel of condemnation?
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. [youpi]
And this from a brother who proclaims Eternal Salvation to whosoever would believe? [Confused]

No condemnation PERIOD!

quote:
Forerunner Commentary:
Before we can go on, even though we have accepted God's invitation to us, repented, and have come back to Him, before we can grow in Christ, we have to understand and believe with all of our heart that we are completely accepted before Him. Do we feel He has accepted us?

He wants us to understand that we are accepted. He wants us to have the confidence that He is with us, that He loves us, that He is concerned about us, that He wants us to be part of His family. He wants us to be in His Kingdom. He wants us to grow. We are accepted before Him.

John W. Ritenbaugh

quote:
Christ Notes Commentary

Believers may be chastened of the Lord, but will not be condemned with the world. By their union with Christ through faith, they are thus secured. What is the principle of their walk; the flesh or the Spirit, the old or the new nature, corruption or grace? For which of these do we make provision, by which are we governed? The unrenewed will is unable to keep any commandment fully. And the law, besides outward duties, requires inward obedience. God showed abhorrence of sin by the sufferings of his Son in the flesh, that the believer's person might be pardoned and justified. Thus satisfaction was made to Divine justice, and the way of salvation opened for the sinner. By the Spirit the law of love is written upon the heart, and though the righteousness of the law is not fulfilled by us, yet, blessed be God, it is fulfilled in us; there is that in all true believers, which answers the intention of the law. The favour of God, the welfare of the soul, the concerns of eternity, are the things of the Spirit, which those that are after the Spirit do mind. Which way do our thoughts move with most pleasure? Which way go our plans and contrivances? Are we most wise for the world, or for our souls? Those that live in pleasure are dead, 1 Timothy 5:6. A sanctified soul is a living soul; and that life is peace. The carnal mind is not only an enemy to God, but enmity itself. The carnal man may, by the power of Divine grace, be made subject to the law of God, but the carnal mind never can; that must be broken and driven out. We may know our real state and character by inquiring whether we have the Spirit of God and Christ, or not, ver. 9. Ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Having the Spirit of Christ, means having a turn of mind in some degree like the mind that was in Christ Jesus, and is to be shown by a life and conversation suitable to his precepts and example.

quote:
BibleTrack Commentary

These first 11 verses are key to understanding the Christian life; they answer the dilemma Paul expresses in chapter 7. Many Believers don't get it; they believe that Believers only do the right thing as they are held into accountability by other Believers. These misguided Believers beat each other over the head with external requirements - a man-made prescribed list of authorized "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots." Paul is clear in the chapters leading up to this one: Righteousness is not attained by keeping the law - the Mosaic law or a law devised by anyone else. Righteousness is achieved by trusting Christ as Savior, and a righteous-looking walk is achieved by dependence on the leadership of the Holy Spirit. That's the point of verse 1 here which serves as an introduction to the whole chapter. Verse 2 further expands the concept by pointing out that our law as Believers is internal - not external; it's the internal law of the Holy Spirit, not the external law from anyone else that keeps us living before God as we should. As a matter of fact, verses 3 and 4 point out that an attempt to achieve righteousness by keeping the law fails every time, but righteousness through the power of the Holy Spirit succeeds every time.



--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Galatians 2


[4] And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
[5] To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

The gospel of condemnation?

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Carmela
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I just sat down to read the book Eden sent me and I thought the first paragraph fits here.

Watchman Nee writes:

The apostle Paul gives us his own definition of the Christian life in Galatians 2:20. It is "no longer I, but Christ." Here he is not stating something special or peculiar-a high level of Christianity. He is, we believe, presenting God's normal for a Christian, which can be summarized in the words: I live no longer, but Christ lives his life in me.

This is a response to the first question.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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Carmela
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Michael said:
quote:
immersion in Christ-related things, that I think is the key, that is...baptism onto sanctification. immersion in all things Christian is like baptism.

I don't totally agree. I think it's more than an immersion. It's letting God take total control of me. When I think of immerision in Christ Centered things, I think of the same things you mentioned first. It isn't about immersion, it's about becoming. Christ living in and through me, totally. Submitting it all over to Him.

quote:
Abiding is something that the heart discovers. It is not something that we initiate by trying.
I agree

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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Michael Harrison
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Abiding is something that the heart discovers. It is not something that we initiate by trying.
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Eden
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Hi, Michael Harrison, you wrote
quote:
Turn loose! Trust Jesus! Hear and obey, for there is no other way, to be happy in Jesus, let Him have the way.
So would you say that you are HAPPY in Jesus, or what adjective would you use for how it is going with you and God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit? Happy, [Smile] Happy, [Big Grin] Happy, [roll on floor] or... [Wink] ?

love, Eden

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Eden
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"Abiding" is taking the time to read the Word of God, and "abiding" is abdicating soul rule in favor of spirit of man rule (which in turn hears from the Spirit of God), and "abiding" is then listening to what the Spirit says to the churches. That is "Abiding".

The more we "abide" in God and in Christ and in the Holy Spirit, the more fruit we bear and the more abundant our life becomes.

love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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Turn loose! Trust Jesus! Hear and obey, for there is no other way, to be happy in Jesus, let Him have the way.
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Michael Harrison
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Abiding!

What does it mean to abide in Christ? Ask someone, and they may tell you that they don't have a definitive answer. Or they may come up with something like, "If I go to church, if I read my bible more, and if I do not go to worldly movies, then I am abiding in Christ!" Or they may something like the following:

quote:
immersion in Christ-related things, that I think is the key, that is...baptism onto sanctification. immersion in all things Christian is like baptism.

No finer example could be thought of to illustrate the 'works' that a person may attend to in order to find more of God, or to , make him feel that he is abiding in Christ. For sure, this passage illustrates perhaps one of the first things that we likely think of whenever we want to be closer to God, or to be more filled with the Spirit - something to 'do', that affects it, or which will accomplish it.

But know we not that it is 'works'? Even the things that it seems we cannot fault, the things that seem absoutely 'right in themselves', when initiated by us, are the very works of effort, of self will. They are an attempt to merit. Therefore, by nature of that, that they are an 'attempt', they are to be immediately recognized as works. But is this not what Paul was trying to say when he made this statement to the Galations that, "Poor souls, you began in the Spirit by the hearing of faith, but now you want to accomplish for yourself, the Holiness that evades you by what you do, rather than what you receive and walk in (which is further refined to mean 'follow')?" (Gal3:2-3) You want to do, to merit it, when it is already 'Done' and you have it.

  • Gal 3:3 Are ye - so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

By doing! Why is it so hard to get it? It is no doubt, that it is because we want to contribute. We feel guilty if we don't. But it is our flesh and the condemner of souls who lays on the guilt. While that is a basically a 'feel-good' thing, it is not what works, nor what Jesus is after! Let us remind ourselves, what, after all are we after? We are after more of the Spirit, to be closer to Him, to walk hand in hand. If we could, we would see more of Him, and visualize His brilliance, such as is delivered to us in the script of Revelations maybe. We would see the shining glory, feel the thunder, and be shaken until we fell on our face as the rumble rumbled touching the sinew of the nerves, as to the very core; and when we were able, we will have stood, trembling, in awe at the shekinah glory, hard to be comprehended. But again, does this come about by our efforts? Galations 3:3 has this to say about it:

  • Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


There may or may not be an effort involved in hearing, but works of the law, translated, simply means, trying to please God by anything that we can do by our own will. This would be ok if it were His wisdom, but His wisdom is greater than we can begin to figure out. That is why it is by faith, according to His will.

  • Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith[meaning, you believe that you have], the same are the children of Abraham.

There is nothing that we receive that is not by faith. And we are not children of Abraham by trying. We are however children of Abraham, if we believe, unto 'receiving'. It is so much easier to 'have', and yet it isn't. We want to 'do' something for it.

  • Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

But we have to 'receive' it - by faith (this washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost). When we 'try' to do it, we try to steal His glory, and we should get ahold of it. (Rom 3:20, 1Co 1:29 Say that, "That no flesh should glory in his presence.") And it is not by works for this reason, that we should not glory as though 'we did it'. It is about receptivity, and receiving is by surrender, your life for His. Nothing happens without this exchange.

  • Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

    But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise, work is no more work.

So if one wants to be close to Him, thee must ask, "What is abiding?" So then, what is "Abiding?" Abiding is, in pure essence, 'letting Him do it', letting Him lead, and we follow after. It is a condition of the heart wherein we let Him BE who HE IS. When we try to do it, we are trying to lead. we are trying to keep the law. As long as we are 'letting' Him, we are abiding. So, when we try, we literally (not figuratively) come out of His rest, out of abiding. That can't be good. And HE said, "Abide in me, for apart from me (that is, apart from MY doing it), ye can 'do' nothing." Let Him do it all. It truly is all or nothing.

Turn loose! Trust Jesus.

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