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Tell me instead, how happy are you in Christ and how did you get there; and then maybe I'll copy some of your methods; or, maybe not, or only one or two.

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Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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love, Eden
"make love our aim"

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Tell me instead, how happy are you in Christ and how did you get there; and then maybe I'll copy some of your methods; or, maybe not, or only one or two.

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Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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The Spirit whom I know is in the reader's homes! I don't think you capable of understanding what that means though!

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The Spirit whom I know is in the reader's homes!

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RE the part I bolded, you are again making assumptions that you cannot know since you are NOT in the readers' homes. You do NOT know what registers with readers and what does not.

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Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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This is what Paul was doing, yet, all that registers with the readers is what he said in Romans Seven ...

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So the devil makes it sound like I am being harsh, but it is not so.

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"Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." Surely we are not perfect in the flesh, that is why we are commanded not to walk in it! It cannot be perfected. It cannot be improved. So why the observation, "We are not perfect in the flesh?"

Walking in the Spirit is something 'beyond' the norm. It is something that Jesus empowers us to do, if we will only.

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Posts: 646 | From: Central New York | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Eden, although I see what you are saying, It seems to me that in a way you are basically saying what oneinchrist did only adding 2 repentance scenarios as far as I can tell. I don't remember the bible talking about 2 different types of repentance but I would like to read what you are referring to. Could you please show some scriptures so I can do more research.

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I'm so tired of that chapter in the Bible. Why did Paul put it in there.

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I do agree with you, but I am still confused about what you are saying when you say you are perfected.

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Inbetween what we see as sin is usually filled with what we don't even notice.

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If one is listening to the spirit of man within him, he is fruitless, for he is listening to a dead man.

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Eden

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But when we, during the course of the day, again take up soul rule or flesh rule, instead of spirit rule, then we sin. Probably ALL soul rule or flesh rule is automatically sin.

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Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Carmela! Anyone who knows me will be quick as a kneejerk to point out that I am not perfect. And never should one be oblivious to such criticism about them, else their condition might become really questionable (See 1Pet2:20), and there is possibly some truth in the critique! Having said that, Jesus is perfect, and they found fault with Him, to the extent that they even killed Him. ??? Yes! So don't let the accuser of the brethren deceive you. You are not created (from above) to abide in failure waiting for a blessed day. That day is here.

Jesus made it easy for us. He is not only God, He is our big brother; and by His obedience, He set the example that we can also realize. But in that HE made it easy to, He says so in these verses:

• Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
  Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
  Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

• Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

• Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
  Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This simply says that HE set the example. He did it. And if we are in fear of transgressing Him, we can read Heb 4:16!!!

"By grace we are saved through faith." That throne of grace is the work of Jesus, the living word of God, and faith is the 'implementation' thereof. For what does HE say happens, "If we believe?" Do we receive?

You cannot 'do' it by trying. That is attempting to keep the law. But you can have it by trusting! That is the reason for faith. So, "Be ye perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect," is something you can walk in by faith, for He who said it performs it that we may abide in it.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Sin is a hard to handle subject. That said, we all have sin. I noticed you said that, and I agree that scripture says so. The point that I would make about those verses is that what it means that we all have sin, is, apart from Christ we do. At any point in time, if we diverge from Christ, we have sin because we are not trusting Him to deliver us. It is an in or out thing.

The reason I say it this way, is that if we are properly trusting Christ, we are 'delivered' from sin, and delivered from sinning. That is what we are seeking for, 'Properly trusting Christ'. In scriptural terms, that means, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these will be added on."

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One reason that I believe it so very important to understand the meaning of repentance...

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Originally posted by Eden:
Hello, KnowHim, you wrote

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Eden, can you explain why you are always defending sin and wanting to see just how much sin you can get away with.

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This is not a correct interpretation of what I said, or meant to say. I am not at all interested in sinning; to the contrary, now that I have the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to help me, I expect and trust that I will sin LESS than I did when I was NOT saved.

But for me it is a matter of trust and faith in God that, when I go WITH God, I will sin less than I did before.

But at the same time I know that, as Paul said, there is a sin principle in my members, so that in this life, we can mostly only serve God with our mind, but our members can still sin:

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Or, perhaps I ought to ask what YOU think the above scripture means?

To me it means that in this first Adamic life that I now have, I can serve God with my mind, but my body may still go its own way?
I'm not defending sin by saying that my body still goes its own way, but at the same time I'm saying that's what Paul himself said.

But my main point is that anyone who now has the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to help him, that person will sin less than they did before. That is just common sense to me.

I'm not advocating a "loose cannon" attitude toward sin, but rather a "trust" attitude that God will help me, to the extent that we can be helped in this life before we are glorified.

love, Eden

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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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I do believe that 1John makes a distinction that I was trying to express in regards to sin. In one passage he states that if we say that we have no sin that we call God a liar......but in another passage he states that a man that is born from above does not sin. How do we make sense of that?

What is John trying to tell us? In my best heart attempt to understand John this is what I come up with................

That we all have sin (born-again or not), but that born-again believers do not commit willfull/intentful/premeditated sin as a way of life.

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I know it seems that I harass you oneinchrist. I don't mean to. FWIW! If you don't mind, let me say:

Sin is a hard to handle subject. That said, we all have sin. I noticed you said that, and I agree that scripture says so. The point that I would make about those verses is that what it means that we all have sin, is, apart from Christ we do. At any point in time, if we diverge from Christ, we have sin because we are not trusting Him to deliver us. It is an in or out thing.

The reason I say it this way, is that if we are properly trusting Christ, we are 'delivered' from sin, and delivered from sinning. That is what we are seeking for, 'Properly trusting Christ'. In scriptural terms, that means, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these will be added on." There is a mode of properly trusting Christ, which is why He said to Abraham that he believed, and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

But in that we are born from above does not mean that we are 'experiencing' deliverance from sin. We can be born from above, and be flat full of it. That is because we don't know how to overcome. And we think that we overcome by trying. Therefore, we can't, plain and simple. Because trying will only fail. Hence we have the chapter in Romans saying:

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for 'to will' is present with me; but 'how to perform that which is good' I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

This is what it means about 'trying' to keep the law. Because trying to keep the law, is trying to overcome sin. (See verse 18) But we don't overcome it by trying, but rather by faith. And one will find that at every point in the epistles, if they are looking.

But here is the reason I talk about 'having' vs. 'doing'. All sin comes from trying to have that which HE has not given us (or so it seems, He hasn't). But the point of faith is that HE has given us everything that we need. That means that we are having. Therefore, if we are having, we need not transgress HIm by 'trying' to have. HE fills us. He fulfills us. When we believe this, and we begin to walk in it, we realize that we do not have to 'lust' after anything, for HE is our provider.

Of course, this means we have to surrender. We have to trust in His provision, according to His will. Then we can realize that all our need is met:

• Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

• Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

• Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Eden, can you explain why you are always defending sin and wanting to see just how much sin you can get away with.

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In the book of Hebrews we are warned against willfull sin after having come to the knowledge of the truth.

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I do believe that 1John makes a distinction that I was trying to express in regards to sin. In one passage he states that if we say that we have no sin that we call God a liar......but in another passage he states that a man that is born from above does not sin. How do we make sense of that?

What is John trying to tell us? In my best heart attempt to understand John this is what I come up with................

That we all have sin (born-again or not), but that born-again believers do not commit willfull/intentful/premeditated sin as a way of life.

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Just speaking from my heart here, I believe that God has protected His Word through the centuries so we will learn what He wants us to learn as the Holy Spirit leads us.

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Michael the original translation of the bible was the actual text so as I see it...

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Originally posted by TB125:
Zeena,
You have quoted a lot more verses of Scripture and added some more comentary. Here is a quotation from your statement that raises a basic question with me.

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I quoted ONE more verse of Scripture, didn't I?

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

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Bob:

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Zeena:
Sanctification is now no longer dependant upon me, but the work of God in and through me as I yeild to Him for His Holy Life.

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With my understanding of the English language, this phrase as I yeild to Him for His Holy Life means that the subject (the process of Sanctification) is somewhat dependent up "me", the object of the action.

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I died, was buried, and was raised to newness of life in Christ Jesus.

It is His Life I've recieved, yes, the Eternal Life of God! But I too [the new me] am present, and made His witness.

It's Him who now works in me, it is His Life!
To say that "I" work is to take glory for myself when there is none to be had.. "I" rely on Jesus to do His Work in and through me.
All Glory to the Son of God!
He both saved me, and is become my Righteousness of God. He's my Life and my Salvation!
Every word in the above is Scriptural truth. But can only be revealed by the inwelling Holy Spirit.
But now that I have recieved Him [the initial act of faith on MY part which placed me in Him [yet, by God's Grace alone, wherwith I have nothing with which to boast, except Him!]], He is become the Righteousness of God which believes His Father in and through me.

My soul is still active, mind you!
Actively trusting, resting and abiding in His Provision, wherewith He bestowed upon me the Person of Jesus!

It's ALL Jesus, or it's nothing.

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One of my basic points of difference with Michael Harrison is that he seems to remove all personal action (work) of "me" from God's work of "santification" in "me". I think that several of us in this Forum have this same problem with Michael Harrison's apparent beliefs regarding salvation and santification. I have the same problem with you, if you share his belief.

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This is a brief response to your post, but I think that is best to keep such posts brief, so I'm focusing on only the above point.

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And, I'll have you note, not one verse of Scripture! haha!

Though, I stand at the ready to post them
For my delight [in Christ], is in the Word of God given us in Scripture

OK, lol, just ONE, ok?
I just CAN'T contain The Word!

2 Corinthians 10:17
"Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Sanctification is now no longer dependant upon me, but the work of God in and through me as I yeild to Him for His Holy Life.

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Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TB125:
Zeena,
You ask me:

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Ok, [hopefully] it is 'clearer' now?

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No it isn't. You state that you've added more to your comments, but your additions are not helpful.

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Please state your case with WildB and with me in a brief personal articulate statement so that we can understand your point of view regarding these matters of belief in which we are seeking to share our insights and opinions. Posting more Scripture verses probably isn't going to help any of us.

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How shall we hear then, if not of God?

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Hopefully this will make things clearer..

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Originally posted by Michael Harrison, the OP [Original post/poster]:
There are two kinds of believers: self righteous believers, and HIS righteousness believers. Is the self-righteous believer really a believer?

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Originally posted by Zeena in response to Michael's OP:
You willing to recieve your faith "OF" God then?

Romans 3: 22 (KJV) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference......

Galatians 2: 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God -- who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Philippians 3: 9 And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the Law -- but that which is through the faith OF Christ -- the righteousness which is of God -- by faith.

Galatians 3: 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by the faith OF Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Romans 3: 3 (KJV) For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith OF God without effect?

Philippians 1: 27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith OF the gospel.

Revelations 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God -- and the faith OF Jesus.

Romans 3: 26 (Rheims New Testament) Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of His justice in this time, that He Himself may be just; and the justifier of him who is of the faith OF Jesus Christ.

Romans 3: 22 (Rheims New Testament) Even the justice of God, by the faith OF Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe IN Him -- for there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.

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Originally posted by Michael Harrison in response to Carmela's post:
Perhaps you are 'not trusting Jesus'. You are perhaps having very little faith in Jesus! Why do I say that? It is not to be insulting. But you said that:

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Carmela wrote:
Michael there's only one problem. At 10:00 you confess your sins and at at 10:01 or sooner, you have already sinned again. It could be a thought, an act, or anger, turning our back on someone in need because we are busy or something, anything. Sometimes, we sin and may not be aware of it.

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Michael wrote:
Well, based on this I would have to ask if you are perhaps instead trusting yourself? And as we can see by the timetable that you personally laid out, we can see just how long faith in ones own self lasts. Maybe a minute. Huh?

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Originally posted by Zeena in response to the bashing of Carmela's faith:
heh

But the Faith OF God is Eternal

Isn't that The Faith we've recieved in Christ?

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It seems to me to be pretty straightforward.. This entire thread is devoted to the deception that there are 'Two believers', as it is aptly named. Meanwhile we are told by God that our old nature has been crucified with Christ!

Sanctification is now no longer dependant upon me, but the work of God in and through me as I yeild to Him for His Holy Life.

It is Jesus we've recieved, and ALL of Him at that. We are complete in Him who is our head, and have all faith abound to us by the Grace of God, through the faith that is in Him. (2 Corinthians 9:8)

Psalm 23:6
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

And here, in the above verse of Scripture, I quote a good promise that God alone is able to perform, a promise given us in Christ Jesus.

For both my edification, and yours

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Ok, [hopefully] it is 'clearer' now?

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Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | 

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I do know that the most trying ones to be around can be the most immediate members of one's own family. In fact, I have to confess that they can cut through one's victory like a knife, because they have this perception of ownership, and can be very trying as a result. Usually you are just 'property' to them, and they take advantage by making unconscience assumptions, without any respect or recognition whatsoever for the 'object' that is more of less perceived as theirs.

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Originally posted by TB125:
Zeena,
Your recent posts are examples of the problem that I have been trying to correct with my recent postings on the topic of "Sound Teaching".

You cite three different verses of Scripture for some reason in two of your posts, but you don't make a clear statement of your point or the case that you are seeking to make. Many posts would be much better and much clearer if the person would just state his or her point in clear English. Then he or she might be able to support it with a quotation from Scripture, as long as the context of the passage had a direct connection to his or her point.

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The point of your above posts is unclear, and the meaning and application of your cited verses of Scripture is lost. I would encourage you and a lot of us to stop "throwing" a lot of Scriptures at each other in our postings. As I've said before, it is not biblical, and it isn't helpful.

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Your short slogan, "Are ya dead yet?!?", at the end of your messages doesn't help. It is somewhat provocative and judgmental, IMHO.

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You seem willing to learn. I hope that these observations and further suggestions are helpful.

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As long as I don't feel compelled to write anything into the text of Scripture, I'm happy

Have a great day at church!

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged |