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Author Topic: What is the "narrow path" all about?
Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote
quote:
People who take things 'personal', respond personally.
Okay, I'll just assume you have been stepping on the toes of crickets.

love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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Herez one I like:

  • Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

We are an heir of what? We read it and suppose that we are an heir of what God has. Nyet! We are an heir of God. It is personal! We get God. It goes so well with the passage on "Joint heirs with Christ." That means of what he hath!!!

1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

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Michael Harrison
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People who take things 'personal', respond personally.
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Carmela
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I was laying in bed trying to sleep, yet thinking about being a joint heir to the throne and what that means. I was thinking of the birth order in the king's house. The first born son was the one that usually took over the throne when the king died. Then, I was thinking about the house of David. David was the youngest of all of the sons, but he was the one that God had chosen. As we read about David's life, we see that God knew who he was choosing. David's life was a reflection of God. When David repented, it was from the bottom of his heart. True repentance.

I don't think it's always about our birth order. I don't mean in the natural, but in the spiritual realm. God looks at the heart of a person. That is how He chooses His people and that is how He chooses who will do the work that He needs to have done.

We are joint heirs to the throne. God knows who He is choosing. We just need to become like David and we too will be chosen by God.

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Carmela
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Daniel you asked:
quote:
In what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more simple than it is
Salvation really is simple. Jesus shed His blood so that we can be set free from out sins. In the O.T. the blood of animals had to be shed to cover the sins of the people. The only thing that I can think of that we do that makes salvation appear more simple than it is, is when we stay in our sin yet justify it or choose not to see our sin and while believing that our sin has been dealt with because of the blood. If we are living in sin by condemning others, criticizing others, or disobeying God's commandments and laws, then we are not a good witness to others. No one wants to be a Christian when they see other Christians behaving the way they do, either publicly or toward other Christians.

Matt 12:34-35
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
(KJV)

If our heart is right before the Lord, it shows outwardly.

Then you asked:
quote:
and in what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more difficult than it is?
Rom 11:1-2
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
(KJV)

Rom 11:16-24
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
(KJV)

Rom 8:16-18
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
(KJV)

These scriptures make it clear. We try to complicate things but the bible says that we have been grafted into God's family. Joint heirs. I think we tend to under estimate the true gift we have been given. It isn't just the blood of Christ that covers our sins. We are Sons and Daughters of God. His heirs. God loves us just as much as He loved Jesus. It's that simple. It's that wonderful.

Later you asked:
quote:
So what makes the difference between someone who "believes" (mentally acknowledges) the truth and one who takes what he/she claims to believe and assimilates and/or appropriates it into his/her life?
As I said earlier, the difference is in a person's actions. A person can only pretend for a while, but eventually, the true heart shows through and is exposed. A person can talk the talk, but are they really walking the walk? That's how you know the difference.

Carmela

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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote
quote:
Personal means 'directed towards'
You may want to check your dictionary. "Personal" means "pertaining to, of a person". Just like "Christian" means, "of Christ". Stepping on people's toes is ALWAYS person-al.

love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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Personal means 'directed towards', or intentional towards some given one. I can make a general statement and it may step on toes, but it doesn't mean that it was aimed towards anyone. That would make it personal.

Aren't we glad that you aren't lord? For if everybody was subject to your interpretations, we would all be in hooey!

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Eden
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Hello, Michael Harrison, you wrote
quote:
If I step on toes, it is not personal.
If you were to step on MY toes, would you not be stepping on the toes of my person? How then can u say that If I step on toes, it is not personal? What then? Are you stepping on the toes of animals that you say it is not personal?

But, com'on, that is a bunch of hooey. When you step on people's toes, of course it's personal. And it's not because the path is narrow, either, that you step on toes, if that is what you do.

love, Eden

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kjw47
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Hi Friend. Jesus showed us the narrow path by his example. He put Gods will first in all aspects of life, and every decision that he made. When Gods word teaches us that God requires us to do everything with our whole hearts, soul, and mind. That means 24/7. Bringing honor to God and his son in everything that we do. We live to do Gods will just as Jesus showed. The only way that this can be accomplished is by listening to Jesus when he taught us: Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance of God. This is what it takes to walk the narrow path. It would be a wise choice for every christian on the planet to study and learn Gods word inside and out, this is how to learn and then apply every utterance.
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Michael Harrison
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1nChrist! The heart is key! The mind can recognize it, but leave the heart out of it. Then there will be conflict in the person.

It is assimilated, and it is appropiated whenever the heart embraces what it should. One need do nothing more than believe what HE shows you.

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Michael Harrison
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quote:
I take as you say it. Then when you are corrected by the very text that you use to say it, YOU Cant take it.

Whats that all about?

I fully can take it wb. "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." And I bear if for His sake, and those who may come to realize the truth that is within them if they will let.


zeeeena. The text you use as your authority to elaborate is wrong. The spirit of man is innermost. It is contained in the soul. The soul is 100 percent affected by the condition of the spirit. And when the 'root' of sin is removed from the heart, the soul is no longer corrupted by it. HIS spirit fills man's spirit, and in consequently the soul is filled by nature of the abiding spirit. The heart is key here! The spirit of God can fill, if you will, the believer, but God can still be missing from the throne of the heart. It is not that HE is not in there, but that He is in 'second place'.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
So what makes the difference between someone who "believes" (mentally acknowledges) the truth and one who takes what he/she claims to believe and assimilates and/or appropriates it into his/her life?

With love in Christ, Daniel

Jesus.

Revelation of God.

Being illumed by The Holy Spirit. [Bible]

1 Corinthians 3:6
I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

Romans 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.

John 16:13-14
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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oneinchrist
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So what makes the difference between someone who "believes" (mentally acknowledges) the truth and one who takes what he/she claims to believe and assimilates and/or appropriates it into his/her life?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Zeena
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quote:
Michael:
when I talk to someone, I speak as though addressing the world

2 Corinthians 2:17
For we are not as the many, corrupting the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, speak we in Christ.

Luke 16:15
And he said unto them, Ye are they that justify yourselves in the sight of men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
No Eden. I cannot even finish reading this. He doesn't 'speak' to the spirit of man, HE fills it. HE replaces your spirit with His. That is the reason we have the description of "Filled with the Spirit."

The infilling of the Spirit is in the SOUL!!!

quote:
There are some in the "union life movement" who affirmed the "no
independent self" of human potential and the "no independent self"
of Christian ability, but proceeded to claim there is "no
independent self" because "union with Christ" constitutes such a
oneness with the divine that the human "self" is annihilated by
absorption into God. Relational union with Christ is falsely equated
with essential oneness with Christ, and that to the point of
monistic merging into equivalence with Christ.

quote:
Claiming to have the "single eye" that sees "God only," some have
blasphemously declared, "When I see me, I see God. I see Christ. I
am the third person of the Trinity." Should anyone "see" otherwise,
they are regarded as not having the advanced spiritual sight to "see
through" to God. To "see" them and what they do as anything other
than a manifestation of God is identified as "seeing an illusion."
Those who are not regarded as spiritual "knowers" and "see-ers" are
seeing only the "illusion of humanness," "the illusion of
carnality," or "the illusion of sin."

Enamored with their alleged essential oneness with God's Being,
these spiritualists have little concern for the consistency of
divine character in their behavior. Despising the word "sin," they
often deny all possibility of expressing "self-for-self" character.
"What I do is what He does. All I do is Christ in action as me,
despite how it might appear." Even blatantly selfish and sinful
behavior is regarded to be "God's expression as me" - another
blasphemous indictment of God's character, that appears to be the
apostasy of calling evil "good." Such a view of the mechanical
inevitability of divine expression, claiming, "I am Christ, and
Christ does not sin," is a form of perfectionism that presumes an
integration into oneness with the Independent Self of the universe,
to the extent that they function as God.

Whereas "law" served a purpose for revealing the fallacies of
"human potential" and "Christian ability," it serves no purpose in
this fallacy of equivalence with God. Convinced that they can do all
things "as God," they are a "law unto themselves," flaunting their
carnality and lawlessness with no regard for the character of
God.

Though they use the phraseology of "no independent self," they
have invested it with an entirely different meaning, believing they
have progressed beyond being a dependent human self to operate as
the Independent Self of the Godhead. This thesis entails a subtle
denial of the distinctive objective realities of God and man - that
God is the only Independent Self, and man always functions as a
dependent self. Denying their human creatureliness, they claim to be
co-creators and co-gods with God, impinging on the singularity of
God's functioning only as Himself - What God is, only God is! At the
same time they reject man's function as a "dependent self," having
an intense disdain for the concept of "derivative man" wherein man
always derives character from one spirit-source or the other, God or
Satan. "God does not mean for man to have faith," they assert, for
they seek to deny the necessity of the human choice of dependence in
"receptivity of His activity." Satan's original lie that man could
be "like God" in human potential has now become the delusion that
"you are God" in the essentialism of divinization.


Source --> http://www.gracenotebook.com/s/pub.pl?id=481&sst=annihilate

The body of sin is not destroyed!, it is unemployed!

The verb katargeo translated `destroyed' in Romans 6:6 (A.V.) does not mean `annihilated', but `put out of operation', `made ineffective'. It is from the Creek root argos, `inactive', `not working', `unprofitable', which is the word translated `idle' in Matthew 20:3,6 of the unemployed laborers in the market place.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Fair enough wild b. But I am not examining you. I am examining scriptures. If I step on toes, it is not personal. And when I talk to someone, I speak as though addressing the world. Sorry if you take it wrong.

I take as you say it. Then when you are corrected by the very text that you use to say it, YOU Cant take it.

Whats that all about?

--------------------
That is all.....

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Michael Harrison
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Fair enough wild b. But I am not examining you. I am examining scriptures. If I step on toes, it is not personal. And when I talk to someone, I speak as though addressing the world. Sorry if you take it wrong.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
No Eden. I cannot even finish reading this. He doesn't 'speak' to the spirit of man, HE fills it. HE replaces your spirit with His. That is the reason we have the description of "Filled with the Spirit."

Perhaps someday HE will fill your spirit with His. Until then you will be empty inside. Or maybe this will challenge you to wake up, or take notice! For if this has already happened, why do you not understand it. And why will you not consider?

"If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." (It's in there somewhere.)

When he says:

"Know ye not how that Jesus is 'in' you except ye be reprobate?"

When you look inside you should see Jesus. Otherwise this scripture is a fraud. If you see the spirit of man, you are seeing a dead person. For the spirit of man is dead. Jesus is life. Let Him fill your spirit with His.\\\\

How will you know you see Jesus? When you see serving on the inside; when you see compassion, on the inside; when you see abandon on the inside; when you see joy on the inside; when you know that you can meet the need of someone because you are intimately tied to the source, and it goes on.

Lets look at that text closer .


Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Not Michal will examine you or Michal will prove you.

--------------------
That is all.....

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Michael Harrison
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No Eden. I cannot even finish reading this. He doesn't 'speak' to the spirit of man, HE fills it. HE replaces your spirit with His. That is the reason we have the description of "Filled with the Spirit."

Perhaps someday HE will fill your spirit with His. Until then you will be empty inside. Or maybe this will challenge you to wake up, or take notice! For if this has already happened, why do you not understand it. And why will you not consider?

"If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." (It's in there somewhere.)

When he says:

"Know ye not how that Jesus is 'in' you except ye be reprobate?"

When you look inside you should see Jesus. Otherwise this scripture is a fraud. If you see the spirit of man, you are seeing a dead person. For the spirit of man is dead. Jesus is life. Let Him fill your spirit with His.\\\\

How will you know you see Jesus? When you see serving on the inside; when you see compassion, on the inside; when you see abandon on the inside; when you see joy on the inside; when you know that you can meet the need of someone because you are intimately tied to the source, and it goes on.

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Eden
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Dear Michael Harrison, you wrote
quote:
So anything that is not Jesus, is the old man.
Absolutely. Jesus Who is seated at the right hand of God the Father speaks to us thru the Spirit of God to our spirit of man. Anything that we do that we DID NOT HEAR THERE is the old man or the flesh. You continued
quote:
This means that anything that does not fit, "What would Jesus do?" is the old. This is why Paul said to "...put off the old," and "put on the new man which is created in God after righteousness." And it makes sense. Your behavior will alter one or the other.
Here is an example of where you could have said, My behavior will...
quote:
The point is that we are to bury the old man by faith in the risen work of Christ. That is what it takes.
Yes, that is what it takes, but I tend to agree with Zeena that as long as we are in this first Adamic body, sin will always be an issue with us. Even Paul had to say, "So with my mind I serve the gospel of God, but with my members (the rest of my body) I serve the law of sin. O wretched man that I am! Who shall save me from this body of sin? Jesus Christ". When?

When our body is glorified. By faith we DO bury the old man, but even Paul could not get him buried entirely.

As long as we are a living soul, and not yet a living spirit, so long will sin also trouble us, no matter how much faith an individual Christian can achieve in the matter of the old man being dead and crucified with Christ. Given the wrong set of circumstances, the old man will suddenly come out.

I loved the way Watchman Nee put it The Normal Christian Life. He said we humans, even saved humans, are like this: As long as we sit quietly in a chair and do nothing, our stumblebum sinner nature does not readily appear.

But let that man get up from his chair and soon he has tripped over the coffee table or he has forgotten to do something that he had promised to do for someone, and so on, and his sinful nature appears. He is not anything at all like Jesus Christ.

And neither could he be. Which is why our main cry to God should always be: "God, have mercy on me a sinner"; for Jesus said that THAT man was justified, rather than the Pharisee who said, "God, I thank you that I am not like other men, unjust, backbiters, what have you". I'm afraid we are all Pharisees who should be crying, "God have mercy on me a sinner!" and "God, protect me from MYSELF!".

with love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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Galatians 2: 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God -- who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Let us note here that when Paul says, "The life I now live int the flesh..." means in the body. It does not mean that one lives in the flesh. In fact he said that there is no condemnation to those "who walk not after [in the manner of serving] the flesh, but in the Spirit." To walk in the Spirit is to not be a victim of the flesh. Essentially, to be a victim of the worldly desires, 'the flesh', one's old nature has the upper hand. This means that the 'old man' that you are without Christ, liveth. But to walk after the Spirit is for him to be dead and buried.

Some people talk about the old man being dead like it is s sheer and immutable fact, while they are keeping him alive by unbelief in the finished work of Christ and their very words or actions betray them. He is dead, after all, by faith, not in actuality. So anything that is not Jesus, is the old man. This means that anything that does not fit, "What would Jesus do?" is the old. This is why Paul said to "...put off the old," and "put on the new man which is created in God after righteousness." And it makes sense. Your behavior will follow after one or the other. One has to 'choose' the spirit or the flesh. He is controlled by which one he chooses.

The point is that we are to bury the old man by faith in the risen work of Christ. That is what it takes. For the 'narrow way' is quite simply the life of Christ. Anything less than the life of Christ is the broad way which leadeth to destruction. And Jesus made a way for us to 'abide' in Him which means that the life of Christ is manifest, and not our flesh.

How does one 'choose' the Spirit? They must put complete confidence in what Jesus is doing that they may be delivered from themselves. That means that a life which is beyond themeslves, which is the 'faith of' Jesus, works out in them. Then they are dead to self.
quote:
..

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Zeena
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Jesus is the narrow path [Smile]

Here's how it can be made more complicated, in fact, impossible;

By refusing to receive the FREE GIFT of Jesus!

Romans 3: 22 (KJV) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference......

Galatians 2: 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God -- who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Philippians 3: 9 And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the Law -- but that which is through the faith OF Christ -- the righteousness which is of God -- by faith.

Galatians 3: 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by the faith OF Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Romans 3: 3 (KJV) For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith OF God without effect?

Philippians 1: 27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith OF the gospel.

Revelations 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God -- and the faith OF Jesus.

Romans 3: 26 (Rheims New Testament) Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of His justice in this time, that He Himself may be just; and the justifier of him who is of the faith OF Jesus Christ.

Romans 3: 22 (Rheims New Testament) Even the justice of God, by the faith OF Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe IN Him -- for there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.

-----------------------------------------------

John 5: 16-18 (NRSV) Therefore the Jews started persecuting Jesus, because He was doing such things on the sabbath. But Jesus answered them, "My Father is still working, and I also am working." For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to KILL Him.... because He was not only breaking the sabbath, but was also calling God His own Father.... thereby making Himself equal to God.

John 5: 40-44 (NRSV) (Jesus speaking) Yet you (Jews) refuse to come to me to have life. I do not accept glory from human-beings. But I know that you do not have the love of God in you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me.... How can you believe, when you accept glory from one another.... and do not seek the glory that comes from the ONE who ALONE is GOD?

John 6: 41-42 (NRSV) Then the Jews began to complain about Him, because He said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." They were saying, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can He now say, 'I have come down from heaven'?"

John 7: 12-18 (NRSV) And there was considerable complaining about Him (Jesus) among the crowds. While some were saying, "He is a good man," others were saying, "No, He is deceiving the crowd." Yet no one would speak openly about Him, for FEAR of the JEWS. About the middle of the festival, Jesus went up into the temple and began to teach. The Jews were astonished at it, saying, "How does this man have such learning, when He has never been taught?" Then Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but His who SENT me. Anyone who resolves to do the will of God will know whether the teaching is from God.... or whether I am speaking on my own. Those who speak on their own, SEEK THEIR OWN GLORY.

John 7: 31-32 Yet many in the crowd believed in Him, and were saying, "When the Messiah comes, will He do more signs than this man has done?" The Pharisees heard the crowd muttering such things about Him.... and the chief priests and the Pharisees sent TEMPLE POLICE to ARREST Him.

John 8: 37 Jesus speaking: I know that you are descendants of Abraham; yet you look for an opportunity to KILL ME.... because there is NO place in you for MY WORD.

John 8: 40-44 (NRSV) Jesus speaking to Scribes and Pharisees: But now you are trying to KILL ME.... a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.... 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God, and now I am here. I did not come on my own.... but HE SENT ME. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot accept my word. You are from YOUR FATHER -- the DEVIL..... and you choose to do your father's desires.

John 8: 47 (NRSV) Jesus speaking to Scribes and Pharisees -- "Whoever is from God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear them is that YOU are not from God."

John 9: 18 (NRSV) The Jews did not believe that he had been blind, and had received his sight, until they called the parents of the man who had received his sight 19 and asked them, "Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?" 20 His parents answered, "We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; 21 but we do not know how it is that now he sees, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him; he is of age. He will speak for himself." 22 His parents said this because they were AFRAID of the JEWS; for the Jews had already agreed that anyone who confessed Jesus to be the Messiah would be PUT OUT of the synagogue.

John 10: 26-31 (NRSV) Jesus speaking to Pharisees. But you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep. My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. What my Father has given me is greater than all else -- and no one can snatch it out of the Father's hand. The Father and I are one." The Jews took up stones again -- to STONE HIM.

John 12: 42-45 (NRSV) Nevertheless many, even of the authorities, believed in Him. But because of the PHARISEES, they did not confess it, for FEAR that they would be put out of the synagogue.... for THEY LOVED HUMAN GLORY more than the GLORY that comes from GOD.

John 19: 12 From then on Pilate tried to release him, but the Jews cried out, "If you release this man, you are no friend of the EMPEROR. Everyone who claims to be a king, sets himself against the emperor."

Luke 11:43-48 (NRSV) Jesus speaking: Woe to you Pharisees! For you love to have the seat of honor in the synagogues, and to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces. Woe to you! For you are like unmarked graves, and people walk over them without realizing it." One of the lawyers answered him, "Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us too." And He (Jesus) said, "Woe also to you lawyers! For you load people with burdens hard to bear -- and you yourselves do not lift a finger to ease them.

Luke 11: 52-54 (NRSV) Jesus speaking: Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering." When He (Jesus) went outside, the Scribes and the Pharisees began to be VERY HOSTILE toward Him, and to cross-examine Him about many things.... LYING IN WAIT for Him.... to CATCH HIM in something He might say.

Matthew 15: 6 (NRSV) Jesus speaking: So, for the sake of your tradition, you make VOID the word of God. 7 You hypocrites.... Isaiah prophesied rightly about you, when he said: 8 'This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 In vain do they worship me -- teaching HUMAN PRECEPTS as doctrines.'

Luke 16: 15 (NRSV) So He (Jesus) said to them (the Parisees), "You are those who JUSTIFY yourselves in the sight of others; but God knows your hearts -- for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Michael Harrison
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quote:
So the soul is very PROUD of its accomplishments and is full of ego, and especially there is an aspect to the soul which thinks that the MORE COMPLICATED something is to achieve, the MORE SPIRITUAL someone is if they can achieve it. This can especially be seen in New Age beliefs.

For instance, a soulish, highly intellectual person thinks he is being spiritual when he can understand something that the "common can" cannot understand.

Something like Watchman Nee's "Breaking of the Outward Man," addresses this nicely.

quote:
So "repentance" occurs when an egotistical soul is finally able to meekly acknowledge (usually after a violent inner struggle with itself), when the soul finally becomes willing to acknowlege the simplicity of the faith in Jesus through the cross, that is the repentance God is talking about is required for salvation.

Most of the time, this repentance is NOT easy to come by, because this salvation is "just too simple" and all "superiority of intellectual achievement" (i.e., all ego-work) has been done away with, and that, for many, is HARD to acknowledge.

I concur! However, on this note: "...when the soul finally becomes willing to acknowlege the simplicity of the faith in Jesus through the cross, that is the repentance God is talking about is required for salvation." The need for it doesn't stop after the 'salvation' experience. If anything it becomes more important.
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Eden
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How to be saved is very simple. I believe that Jesus is the Messiah who died in my place and I am saved. All it takes is an ongoing belief in Jesus. That is SO simple it is almost shocking.

HOWEVER, to ACHIEVE that belief is NOT so simple. Why? Because man has been operating his life from the soul for SO long that the soul does not relinquish that position easily.

So the soul is very PROUD of its accomplishments and is full of ego, and especially there is an aspect to the soul which thinks that the MORE COMPLICATED something is to achieve, the MORE SPIRITUAL someone is if they can achieve it. This can especially be seen in New Age beliefs.

For instance, a soulish, highly intellectual person thinks he is being spiritual when he can understand something that the "common can" cannot understand.

This is why God has "confounded the wise" and "out of the mouths of babes", and God has instead set forth "the foolishness of the cross" so as to "shut the mouths" and to "prevent boasting".

The unsaved soul is highly proud and arrogant and full of itself, so that, when a simple belief in Jesus is ALL that is required for salvation, the highly egotistical soul cannot bring himself to "just believe" because that would place him on the same rank/level as "Mr. Anybody" so what kind of "achievement" is that?

So "repentance" occurs when an egotistical soul is finally able to meekly acknowledge (usually after a violent inner struggle with itself), when the soul finally becomes willing to acknowlege the simplicity of the faith in Jesus through the cross, that is the repentance God is talking about is required for salvation.

Most of the time, this repentance is NOT easy to come by, because this salvation is "just too simple" and all "superiority of intellectual achievement" (i.e., all ego-work) has been done away with, and that, for many, is HARD to acknowledge.

Galatians 3:22
But the scriptures shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them who believe.

love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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The truth is, self' is shed when one trusts HE who 'giveth'. Self is preserved, when one tries to perform it! (It's outrageously, completely true!) When one 'receives' it, they come to the end of themselves. It is not as though it is 'added' to them as they are. There is a trade off. It is 'out with yours', and 'in with HIS'. It is 'off' with the old clothes, and 'on' with the new. That is what 'receiving' does.

Let not one mistakingly say that they are not changed! For if they were not, then they didn't 'receive' HIM!

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Michael Harrison
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Well I believe that God is able to worry about them so that you will not have to. Are you not finite? What will you accomplish for HIM that HE cannot accomplish for Himself? Or do you not 'promote yourself' in claiming to be a defender of the way? Have you met the requirements? Then you will not have to speak evil of another to make your point! Did HE not leave the ninety and nine, to find the one who was lost? Or did He send them out to find thee?
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
In what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more simple than it is?, and in what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more difficult than it is?

With love in Christ, Daniel

Here is the first test: Did your profession of faith in Christ cost you anything? If not, then it was not a true profession. Many people who “trust” Jesus Christ never leave the broad road with its appetites and associations. They have an easy Christianity that makes no demands on them. Yet Jesus said that the narrow way was hard . We cannot walk on two roads, in two different directions, at the same time.

The second test is this: Did my decision for Christ change my life? False prophets who teach false doctrine can produce only a false righteousness (see Acts 20:29). Their fruit (the results of their ministry) is false and cannot last. The prophets themselves are false; the closer we get to them, the more we see the falsity of their lives and doctrines. They magnify themselves, not Jesus Christ; and their purpose is to exploit people, not to edify them. The person who believes false doctrine, or who follows a false prophet, will never experience a changed life . Unfortunately, some people do not realize this until it is too late.

He died that we might live through Him: “God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him” (1 John 4:9). This is our experience of salvation, eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ. But He also died that we might live for Him, and not live unto ourselves (2 Cor. 5:15). This is our experience of service. It has well been said, “Christ died our death for us that we might live His life for Him.” If a lost sinner has been to the cross and been saved, how can he spend the rest of his life in selfishness?

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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Good morning Eden,
I am in a little hurry on my way to work in a few minutes. I did read your post. It did seem to lean more from the perspective of people over complicating or making more difficult the way of salvation and I do have to agree with that scenario.....but, I still believe that the way of salvation can also can be oversimplified in some ways also. Is there anyone else that believes that?

With love in Christ, Daniel

I can no longer constrain myself. Your question is probably the result of bantering between ANM, zeena, perhaps myself and others. I have to say oneinChrist, that zeena is correct (even though, she says it one the one hand, and evidently denies it on the other!) It 'is' that easy, but one has to 'accept' it. That does not come easy! And here we have an amplification of what Paul meant when he said, "Labor to enter that rest."

So you 'have' to accept it! That means 'receive' it. That is how simple God has made it, and we complicate it.

For the sake of those like Billy, here is another simple one liner so that it is not more than people can easily digest (and I am not being facetious):

"But thanks be to God, which - giveth - us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."(1Co 15:57 )

If someone wants to argue, well (shrug)! It shows what they are about. But one could read only, "But thanks be to God, which giveth..." For this is a profoundly unsimple, simple oneliner. For it is hard to comprehend just the first seven words. More difficult is the comprehension of what that is about. The sentence limits it to 'victory'. But the word victory implies a whole host of things. For one, if one assimilates it correctly, he will understand that that which HE giveth, incorporates victory over 'total' defeat in sin. And to keep it simple, the first seven words state simply what is HIS intent, and what He accomplishes (or has by the Cross), if we will 'receive' it. It is of no value if we don't receive it, and most people struggle desperately to do so. Think about it! They start off by grace, and they continue by 'desire', or works.

"Blessed be God who 'giveth'..."

Just so one understands that it starts with 'victory' over the world, because there are those who would mistake this to mean, houses, cars, loftier positions in employment!!! But when Jesus said that "I am come that they may have life, and have it more abundantly, HE is life. HE meant 'HIMSELF'.

The real ugly truth is that one wants it to be hard so that they can contribute to accomplishing the overcoming. That is because they cannot 'trust' God.

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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
In what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more simple than it is?, and in what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more difficult than it is?

With love in Christ, Daniel

Just want to point out the the above is the questions. I don't see many answers that are about the above questions.

I am typing this because I am interested in what others answers to these questions are and I think Daniel is also.


.

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Eden
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Amen, Zeena.

John 13:10
Jesus said to him, He who is washed needs only to wash his feet, but is every whit clean: and you are clean, but not all of you.

love, Eden

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Zeena
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We have recieved the Spirit of God, who is The Eternal Life, yes. Man is a tripartite being, spirit, soul and body. The Holy Spirit indwells our spirit upon believing on Jesus. We can [now] be filled with the Spirit in our souls, working His way outwards through the body by Grace through faith, yes. BUT, we STILL have sin in our bodies vieing for control over our souls. Every moment we take our eyes off the Lord we walk after the flesh which had grown accustomed to sin before recieving Eternal Life.

This is not Heaven [here on earth], though He has raised us up and made us to sit with Him in the Heavenlies, our feet still touch the ground! Our feet get dirty here, for it is a fallen world! We are in need of cleansing by confession of our sins to Jesus!

Your Life is Eternal in Christ, for it is God's Zoe Life He has given you in the Person of Jesus.

John 12:24
and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not the body that shall be, but a bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other kind;

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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NewDiscovery711
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salvation means saved rescued from the fallen nature and to walk in the LIBERTY OF LIFE, the same as Messiah did here on earth - He is our pattern - this is how His people should be - not as the abomination the ''christian church'' is today - she is dead in trespass and sin. [1 corn 1 v 10]
That is why the pews die - they failed to overcome their own sin and death.
It is like the Breath of Life leaks out from their sores called sin, till Father shall not strive with them anymore.

The ''narrow way'' is the way of yielding up our deceived soul called Eve to the Holy Spirit to be trained to live THE LIFE OF OUR SAVIOUR.

Both men and women are 'eve' a deceived soul.


The broadway of ''THE CHURCH'' catters too deceived souls who cannot receive their salvation/liberty/freedom from death and the fallen nature law.
alas.
Few find eternal life according to the bible but the system called ''organised religion'' with hirelings in charge says all their creed/sect people find eternal life - that is a lie - for in the word ''eternal life'' it means NO DEATH has invaded this people - they now have attained to ZOE life....an endless life according to the NT and these few who do find eternal life by seeking after it [see Roms 2 v 10] enter into the Melchedezeck Order - or the Order of incorruptible life.

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Billy
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I need add nothing. KnowHim, you stole my thunder. But this is a good thing. At least I know that there are people on this message board that agree with what I've read and arrived at, from the scriptures.

The only thing that I would add, and this is just sidebar, is that this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many intricacies to getting to know God in a deeper way, after you have yielded to His lordship through repentance and faith. So get under a mentor that has a high view of God and a high view of the scripture. Learn all that you can about the love of Christ and pray that He would use you to demonstrate His love to the world around you.

Also, learn all that you can about the faith, and the essential doctrines. Pray that the Holy Spirit would give you wisdom and discernment so that you would know how to use this new found knowledge to affect the world around you. But never forget that love for God and your fellow Christians is the greatest gift you can be blessed with from the Holy Spirit. Pray that He would cultivate in you a love that would reflect Him.

In Christ,
Billy.

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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.

- The Apostle Paul

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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
In what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more simple than it is?, and in what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more difficult than it is?

With love in Christ, Daniel

>>> In what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more simple than it is?

The feel good modern day institutionalized religious machine wants people to think that life if about them and God is here to give you your every wish. They teach that if you raise your hand, walk the isle, get Baptist, say a sinners pray then you are saved. You have pushed the magic button and you now have a free ticket to heaven.

But my bible says:

1 John 2:3-6 (NIV)
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

This is as plain as it gets.

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13 (KJV)

You can do all the things people want you to do on the outside. You can say you believe in the existence of God. You can say you believe what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, that He is the virgin born Son of God. He died on the cross to pay our sin debt. He was buried and that He rose from the dead. But if your life is not showing you actually believe this then you have never come to know Him and you are fooling yourself.

Those that are in this condition will be quick to try and prove you can push the magic button and get their free ticket to heaven, but that is because they know they just want to do as they please and not really come to know the Lord Jesus Christ. Why, it can be very painful to know Him as sometimes it is not a wonderful life but a pain filled one. (But this is just a short while then we will with Him) It is also very peaceful and rewarding to know Him.

>>> and in what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more difficult than it is?

Well I guess the religious people that tell you that you have to follow their man made religious rules and give them your money. They want you to believe that you are under bondage to them so they can fleece you. They don’t tell you that it is all about knowing Jesus Christ. They hint around and tell you that if you don’t go to Church Sunday morning, Sunday Evening and on Wednesdays then you are not really a true believer. They have a list of things they use to make you feel guilty so they can control you. But in reality salvation comes only by knowing and following Jesus Christ. You will know if you know Him. Your life changes and you no longer want to sin, you will sin, but you start loving Jesus Christ more then you love your sin. You stop defending your sin so you can get away with it. You come to know that when you sin it hurts the one you now love (Jesus Christ) so you do your best not to sin. Your life changes and you begin to live for Him not the Church building or fellowship but you live for Jesus and when you do you actually start caring about others to the point you want them to come to know Jesus Christ and not religion, a building or a fellowship. Once someone comes to know Jesus Christ, He will deal with what kind of fellowship you should have. The main thing is He wants you to fellowship with Him. He wants to come first your life and not religion.

As for the narrow path. It is also simple. Jesus said:

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Meaning religion, men, or anything else will not give you eternal life. Only Jesus can give you eternal life. But many, many people don’t want to let loose of their lives and give it over to Jesus so they depend on religion and many other things. But the bible is clear Jesus Christ is the only way and few find it.

Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are FEW who find it. - Matthew 7:14 (NKJV)

Few that really seek the Lord and get to know Him.


.

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Wild B,
What you say is true.....but I am not on this site to prove that I have all the right perspectives on the Word of God. I am here to share my testimony and to work and study with others to hopefully come to a balanced view of scriptural truth. A couple of my concerns when it comes to preaching the gospel are either the lack of, or an incomplete message of repentance and the necessity of a committment to the Lordship of Jesus. I dont see it as faith plus repentance and saying yes to Jesus' call to discipleship, but as faith needs to include a repentant heart and a positive response to the call of discipleship. What do you think?

With love in Christ, Daniel

A verse does come to mind.

1Pet.3

[15] But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

--------------------
That is all.....

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oneinchrist
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Hi Wild B,
What you say is true.....but I am not on this site to prove that I have all the right perspectives on the Word of God. I am here to share my testimony and to work and study with others to hopefully come to a balanced view of scriptural truth. A couple of my concerns when it comes to preaching the gospel are either the lack of, or an incomplete message of repentance and the necessity of a committment to the Lordship of Jesus. I dont see it as faith plus repentance and saying yes to Jesus' call to discipleship, but as faith needs to include a repentant heart and a positive response to the call of discipleship. What do you think?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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oneinchrist
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Good morning Eden,
I am in a little hurry on my way to work in a few minutes. I did read your post. It did seem to lean more from the perspective of people over complicating or making more difficult the way of salvation and I do have to agree with that scenario.....but, I still believe that the way of salvation can also can be oversimplified in some ways also. Is there anyone else that believes that?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Eden
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Hi, oneinchrist, I'm outside in Summer a lot too. I think that generally people make being saved way too complicated.

To me it is simply believing that Jesus is the Son of God who died in place of my sins so that I can go 100% free.

John 8
23 And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.

24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sins.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 He who believes on Him is not condemned: but he who believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Salvation is simple. Believe that Jesus is the Prophet of Deuteronomy 18:15:

Deuteronomy 18
15 The LORD your God will raise up to you a Prophet from the midst of you, of your kinsmen, like me {who did miracles in the wilderness and before Pharaoh); to him shall you listen.

Salvation is easy to get; believe Jesus is the Son of God, the Prophet of Deut.18:15.

But sanctification is much more difficult and is a lifelong project. But God knows what adopted children are like. God knows who our former father was:

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he who loves not his brother.

God knows what adopted children are like. Sometimes it's not very pretty, but it is saved.

The "narrow path" leads to the gate of the camp of the God of Israel and once inside the gate through belief, the "narrow path" is trying to "be more sanctified-acting" in the family camp of God.

One "narrow path" leads to the gate of being adopted into the family of the God of Israel, and once inside the camp, that same "narrow path" continues, but God knows that adopted sons and daughters "have a lot of issues" until they are LOVED back to normalcy by God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

love, Eden

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oneinchrist
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Hi Michael,
I've been outside a lot working on a screen room project. Havent even been on to check e-mails for a while. I am outside a lot more in the summer. Thanks for asking. Keep the faith.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Michael Harrison
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Where have you been? LTNSee
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oneinchrist
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In what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more simple than it is?, and in what ways do people make the way of salvation appear more difficult than it is?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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