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oneinchrist
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very true Carol, very true. Hence the urgency even greater.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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oneinchrist

You're right, of course. But this is also true because no one knows for sure how long he will live. Every hour is precious for the cause of Christ.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
I believe that we as christians and followers of Jesus Christ should seriously consider the urgency of getting out the gospel message of repentance for forgiveness of sin and faith in Jesus because there really may not be any more time for any one single person to change their mind after the coming of Jesus.

With love in Christ, Daniel

Thank you for that Daniel! [Smile]

Praise God! [Big Grin]

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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oneinchrist
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I believe that we as christians and followers of Jesus Christ should seriously consider the urgency of getting out the gospel message of repentance for forgiveness of sin and faith in Jesus because there really may not be any more time for any one single person to change their mind after the coming of Jesus.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Zeena
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The Euphrates was [partially] dried up once, according to the Prophecy of Isaiah 13;

quote:
BABYLON
Babylon was the capital of the ancient world. It was a centre of trade, learning and culture. Babylon had four walls each 14 miles long, covering 196 square miles, surrounded by a 30 foot wide moat. The walls were 311 feet high, 87 feet wide, with 100 gates of solid brass. 250 watchtowers extended 100 feet higher than the walls.
While the Babylonians were holding a drunken feast, Cyrus the Persian had diverted the Euphrates river away from its course underneath the walls of Babylon, and marched his troops along the dry riverbed. He then took the city in 536 BC.
Xerxes later plundered Babylon, as did Alexander the Great's troops. Trajan the Roman Emperor visited Babylon in 116 AD describing it as "mounds and legends of mounds." Layard writes of Babylon: "No Arab tents, no sheepfolds, and overrun by desert animals." Consider the following fulfilled prophecies concerning Babylon:
i) These prophecies were given in 713 BC: Babylon will be like Sodom and Gomorrah.
"Babylon shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." Isaiah 13:19.
ii) The Medes and Persians would conquer Babylon (536 BC). Isaiah 13:17;45:1-4.
iii) Babylon shall never be inhabited. Isaiah 13:20.
iv) Arab tents will not be pitched there. Isaiah 13:20.
v) Sheepfolds will not be there. Isaiah 13:20.
vi) Desert creatures will infest the ruins. Isaiah 13:21.
vii) Babylon will be covered with swamps of water. Isaiah 14:23.
Part of Babylon today lies under silt and under the water table.

Source --> http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/answers/answers/2.pdf

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Kindgo
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China’s 200 million-man Army

Are we nearing the Sixth Trumpet of Revelation 9?

By Ken Raggio

In Revelation 9:16, John saw the largest army ever assembled.

He said, "I heard the number of them." That number was two hundred million.

The occasion is the sixth trumpet of the endtime.

The event is a horrible calamity that would kill fully one-third of the earth - almost two BILLION people!

This incomprehensible battle would start with the loosing of four angels in the region of the Euphrates River.

The Euphrates flows through the territories of Turkey, Syria, Iraq. These are certainly volatile areas for military conflict.

It might be implied that the regime of Saddam Hussein could actually become a part of this final showdown with China.

Recent news indicates that China's need for oil is growing at a staggering pace, and the Middle East may be where she gets it, perhaps even by force. The Euphrates area is fabulously oil-rich.

Chairman Mao boasted in the 1960’s of an army of two hundred million men.

Bible students have for decades suspected that the two hundred million man army would undoubtedly be from China.

No other nation on earth could accomplish that feat. The link between China’s soldiers and the powers from the Euphrates region poses an interesting subject for speculation.

What could precipitate a battle of such magnitude?

What possible motives could China have for raising up its 200,000,000 soldiers and sending them out to battle?

Today’s sophisticated weaponry of jets, missiles, tanks, plus high-tech warfare tools as spy satellites, reconnaissance planes, aircraft carriers, and more, hardly leaves any place for conventional ground warfare of this magnitude.

China is historically aggressive.

China has already demonstrated to the world its eagerness to act swiftly in matters pertaining to political upheavals among its neighbors.

Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, have all felt Beijing breathing down their necks over the years.

China strongly desires to maintain and expand dominance in the Asian community.

The Gulf War, however, taught them a painful lesson about what happens when modern warfare is waged against outdated weaponry such as theirs.

China has conducted Nuclear Testing more recently than the other superpowers, and is anxious to flex its muscles to assert its presence in the region.

They conducted intimidating military exercises against Hong Kong during its transition from British rule to Chinese.

New threats are developing in the region.

In November, 1997, unexpected election results in Taiwan raised the possibility of an international crisis.

The old communist KMT government was suddenly unseated by the Democratic Progressive Party, and the consensus was boiling to declare independence from Beijing.

Eight of Washington’s elite military and diplomatic personalities were rushed to the region to try to diffuse any potential flare-up of tensions from Beijing.

Obviously, the risk of serious trouble was running pretty high, and may still be.

Nuclear Powers in India and Pakistan

In the summer of 1998, both India and Pakistan conducted Nuclear testing in their countries.

No one knows for sure all their motives, but one of the distinct possibilities is that they are building a defense against CHINA!

China, in July, 1998, deployed six new ICBMs, loaded with nuclear warheads. That adds to 14 others that were already deployed. While the United States is certainly one of their perceived enemies, no one can deny that the entire Asian region is a hotbed of potential conflict.

Could it be that there is a new Cold War emerging between CHINA, PAKISTAN, and INDIA?

Most alarming, is the possibility that a Nuclear showdown between these nations could EASILY KILL ONE-THIRD of humanity. There are 2.68 BILLION people living in the region.

That could become a fulfillment of the prophecy of Revelation 9:15, "And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men." The very next verse introduces the 200,000,000 man army (China).

Many Asian leaders hold the view that the United States must remain politically, economically, and militarily engaged in the Asian-Pacific to ensure stability.

Others believe, however, that the US will ultimately withdraw, leading to regional instability. Consequently, many countries are attempting to forge new ties with the United States.

New leaders now in power demonstrate
"New World Order" connections.

Meanwhile, China has a new Premier.

Zhu Rongi, China’s reformist tsar, was elected in March with a mandate to save the nation's industry and banks from collapse.

Zhu's strategy includes reorganizing the central bank along the lines of the U.S. Federal Reserve.

Students of prophecy will recognize the connection with behind-the-scenes international banking forces. This suggests that China is moving toward compliance with New World Order operatives (i.e., Big Brother).

If China finally aligns itself more favorably with the international community, it could become increasingly active in the UN Security Council (photo), and ultimately take the UN side in a Middle East showdown.

As long as China holds its seat there, its power can should never be underestimated!

With the worlds’ largest conventional, low-tech army, China could activate a Middle East confrontation on behalf of the United Nations that might be envisioned as unstoppable.

Only God knows the potential holocausts that could ensue as Saddam Hussein whips out his weapons of mass destruction, and full-scale nuclear war breaks out.

Revelation 9:17 says, "And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone."

The COLOR of these breastplates was 1.Fire, 2. Jacinth, 3. Brimstone. Numerous Bible commentaries transpose these to be the colors. RED, BLUE, and YELLOW.

Do these colors reveal the powers behind the red army?

Any seasoned student of prophecy is aware of the behind-the-scenes powers of the super-rich, especially the Rothschilds and Rockefellers.

They are the principle forces behind the New World Order. The name Rothschild means Red Shield. The shield and colors of the Rothschild family on their coat of arms is blue (hyacinth) and yellow. Was John telling us that the 200 million Chinese soldiers would be marching under the Rothschild colors – or New World Order instructions?

Can it be that the secretive New World Order will use these primitive conventional means of warfare to attempt to crush the Middle East.

Additional support for that theory comes from the fact that China has recently installed a new leader, and his first order of business was to overhaul the Central Bank.

The Central Bank is Big Brother’s number one power tool over any government.

That indicates the increasing control of the New World Order gang, even inside the Great Wall.

It is going to be very interesting, to say the least, at how these scenarios actually unfold.

Revelation 9:14 speaks of four spirits being loosed in the area of the Euphrates River, which runs through Iraq, (especially Baghdad and Babylon)

In verse 15, "And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."

The very next verse introduces the 200,000,000 man army (China).

As China's economy nosedives (as it is currently doing), and the Chinese need for oil increases (over 90 million barrels per day), China may decide that it needs to make an aggressive move into the Middle East to take oil.

While this is only one of many potential scenarios that might unfold, the sober facts of biblical prophecy demands that these players are destined for the worst armed conflict of all world history.


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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Kindgo
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http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9905/28/china.military/

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Kindgo
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2. (12-16) The sixth bowl: armies are gathered for a great battle.

Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

a. The great river Euphrates: The Romans considered the Euphrates River a secure barrier against invasion from the empires of the east. In that day it was 1,800 miles long and anywhere from 300-1200 yards wide.

b. Its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared: If the Euphrates were dried up and made a road, massive armies from the east (nations such as China, India, and Japan) could move westward with ease.

i. Why do these armies come? Is it to wipe out Israel? Is it to rebel against a European-based world leader (the Antichrist)? Ultimately, they come to do battle against God and His Messiah (Psalm 2).

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Eden
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Hello, Kindgo. You wrote
quote:
What about China's 200-million-man army?
First of all, the Bible does not say China, it says kings of the east.
quote:
Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Secondly, the 200 million army is not an earthly army but is the army of the LORD:
quote:
Revelation 9
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were 200 million: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them who sat on them, having breastplates of fire and breastplates of jacinth and breastplates of brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

It is the army of the LORD, as seen from Joel:
quote:
Joel 2
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

3 A fire devours before them; and behind them a flame burns: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.

5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devours the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.

7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.

9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

11 And the LORD shall utter His voice before His army: for His camp is very great: for he is strong that executes His word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

So this 200 million army is headed by the LORD Himself, and is not an earthly army. For which earthly soldier can fall upon a sword and not be wounded?

love, eden

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Keith
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quote:
When was the Gospel preached to all the nations? When was the Mark of the Beast implemented? What about China's 200-million-man army? When did 100-pound hailstones fall from the sky? And what date was it when the Euphrates River dried up?
These things have not happened yet.

quote:
The questions are endless. Why did we have the rebirth of Israel? If Jerusalem was forever removed from being the burdensome stone, why has it now returned to that status? When did all the Jews shout, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord," as Jesus said they would?
Real Israel, spiritual Israel was established by Christ Himself. They will shout the above, when Christ returns for his own. When the earth is cleansed by fire, and sin and sinners are no more, the New Jerualem will descend from heaven and the literal kingdom of God will once again be established on earth.


Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Y. b. in C. Keith

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Carol Swenson
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The purpose of the Second Coming of Christ


1. To defeat the antichrist and the world’s nations assembled at Armageddon. Two authors aptly describe this battle for us:

“Palestine is to be given a blood bath of unprecedented proportions, which will flow from Armageddon at the north down through the Valley of Jehoshaphat, will cover the land of Edom, and will wash over all Judea and the city of Jerusalem. John looks at this scene of carnage and he describes it as blood flowing to the depths of the horses’ bridles. It is beyond human imagination to see a lake that size that has been drained from the veins of those who have followed the purpose of Satan to try to exterminate God’s chosen people in order to prevent Jesus Christ from coming to reign.” (Pentecost, Prophecy for Today, pp. 118, 119)

“The Battle of Armageddon will result in wholesale carnage among the legions of the beast. The brilliance of Christ’s appearing will produce a trembling and moralization in the soldiers (Zech. 12:2; 14:13). The result of this demoralization and trembling will be the desertion from the antichrist and the rendering of him inoperative (2 Thess. 2:8). This tremendous light from heaven will produce astonishment and blindness in animals and madness in men (Zech. 12:4). A plague will sweep through the armies from this light and men will rot right where they stand (Zech. 14:12, 15). The blood of animals and men will form a lake two hundred miles long and bridle deep (Rev. 14:19, 20). The stench of this rotting mass of flesh and blood will fill the entire region (Isa. 34:1-3). The mangled forms of men and the rotting flesh of men and beasts will provide a feast for the carrion birds (Rev. 19:17, 18, 21). The beast and the false prophet will then be cast alive into the lake of fire forever (Rev. 19:20).” (Hoyt, The End Times, p. 165)

2. To regather, regenerate, and restore faithful Israel . Perhaps the most frequent promise in all the Old Testament concerns God’s eventual restoration of Israel. The prophets repeat this so often that it becomes a refrain—a chorus of confidence.

Note the following:

“Fear not, for I am with thee; I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth” (Isa. 43:5, 6).

“For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land; and I will build them, and not pull them down…” (Jer. 24:6).

“…Thus saith the Lord God, I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel” (Ezek. 11:17).

Perhaps the most sublime song of praise concerning Israel’s restoration is sung by the prophet Micah:

“Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? He retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. He will turn again; he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea” (Micah 7:18, 19).

In the New Testament our Lord also speaks about this during one of his last sermons:

“And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other” (Mt. 24:31).

Thus will our Lord gather Israel when he comes again and, as we have already observed, he will begin by appearing to the remnant hiding in Edom. Here we note:

a. Their temporary sorrow.

“And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem…in the valley of Megiddon. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart…” (Zech. 12:10-12).

“And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends” (Zech. 13:6).

“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him” (Rev. 1:7).

b. Their ultimate joy.

“He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth; for the Lord hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us. This is the Lord…we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation” (Isa. 25:8, 9).

“I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins” (Isa. 43:25).

“For the Lord shall comfort Zion; he will comfort all her waste places, and will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein; thanksgiving, and the voice of melody” (Isa. 51:3).

“For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands” (Isa. 55:12).

3. To judge and punish faithless Israel . In the book of Romans the great Apostle Paul makes two significant statements concerning his beloved nation Israel. He writes,

“And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob” (Rom. 11:26).

“For they are not all Israel which are of Israel” (Rom. 9:6). By the first statement Paul of course meant that all faithful Israel would be saved. As we have previously seen, this blessed event will occur during the tribulation.

By the second statement Paul writes concerning faithless Israel. In other words, all that glitters is not gold. From the very moment God began working through Abraham (the first Hebrew), Satan also began working through members of that same race. Thus, as the Bible has been advanced by faithful Israel throughout history, it has likewise been opposed by faithless Israel.

Therefore, when the matter of all Israel returns, he will be especially gracious to true Israel but especially harsh with false Israel. Note the tragic record of false Israel.

a. Her sins against the Father.

(1) Rebelling (Num. 14:22, 23).

(2) Rejecting (1 Sam. 8:7).

(3) Robbing (Mal. 3:2-5).

b. Her sins against the Son.

(1) She refused him (Jn. 1:11).

(2) She crucified him (Acts 2:22, 23; 3:14, 15; 4:10; 5:30; 1 Thess. 2:14-16).

c. Her sins against the Holy Spirit—stubborn resistance. (See Acts 7:51.)

d. Her sins against the kingdom.

(1) She refused to use her God-given abilities to promote it (Mt. 25:24-30; Lk. 19:20-24).

(2) She made light of the marriage feast (Mt. 22:5).

(3) She refused to wear the proper wedding garments (Mt. 22:11-13).

e. Her sins against her own people.

(1) She stole from widows (Mt. 23:14).

(2) She killed her own prophets (Mt. 23:31, 34, 35; Acts 7:58).

f. Her sins against the world.

(1) She led others into her own wretched blindness (Mt. 23:16, 24).

(2) She was filled with hypocrisy (Mt. 16:6, 12; Rom. 2:17-23).

(3) She had blasphemed the name of God among the Gentiles (Rom. 2:24).

g. Her sins against the gospel.

(1) She opposed it in Jerusalem (Acts 4:2; 5:28; 9:29; 21:28; 23:2, 12).

(2) She opposed it in Damascus (Acts 9:22-25).

(3) She opposed it in Antioch of Pisidia (Acts 13:45, 50).

(4) She opposed it in Iconium (Acts 14:2).

(5) She opposed it in Lystra (Acts 14:19).

(6) She opposed it in Thessalonica (Acts 17:5).

(7) She opposed it in Berea (Acts 17:13).

(8) She opposed it in Corinth (Acts 18:6, 12).

(9) She opposed it in Caesarea (Acts 25:6, 7).

The Apostle Paul dearly loved his nation, and doubtless wrote the following description of faithless Israel and her future judgment with a heavy and weeping heart:

“Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost” (1 Thess. 2:15, 16).

Thus the tragic prophecy of Ezekiel will someday be fulfilled upon faithless Israel:

“But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord God” (Ezek. 11:21).

“And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me…” (Ezek. 20:38).

4. To separate the sheep from the goats (Mt. 25:31-46).

a. The false views of this judgment.

(1) That this “sheep and goat” judgment is the same as the great white throne judgment of Revelation 20:11-15. They are not the same, for one takes place at the end of the tribulation while the other occurs at the end of the millennium.

(2) That the sheep and goat judgment deals only with entire nations. Some have imagined the nations of the world lined up before God. At his command, Russia steps forward and is judged—then America, then Cuba, etc. This is not the case. The word translated “nations” in Matthew 25:32 should be rendered “Gentiles.”

b. The basis of this judgment. The test in this judgment is how those Gentiles who survive the tribulation have treated faithful Israel (here referred to by Christ as “my brethren”).

In Nazi Germany, during the Second World War, escaping Jews were on a number of occasions befriended and protected by various German families who, in spite of their nationality, did not agree with Adolf Hitler. Apparently the same thing will happen during the tribulation. Gentiles from all nations will hear the message of faithful Israel and believe it and, at the risk of their own lives, will protect the messengers.

5. To bind Satan .

“And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly…” (Rom. 16:20).

“And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years should be fulfilled…” (Rev. 20:1-3).

6. To resurrect Old Testament and tribulational saints . It is the view of this study guide that at the rapture of the church God will raise only those believers who have been saved from Pentecost till the rapture. According to this view, all other believers will be resurrected just prior to the millennium.

a. The fact of this resurrection. At least nine passages bring out this resurrection.

(1) Job 19:25, 26.

(2) Psalm 49:15.

(3) Isaiah 25:8.

(4) Isaiah 26:19.

(5) Daniel 12:2.

(6) Hosea 13:14.

(7) John 5:28, 29.

(8) Hebrews 11:35.

(9) Revelation 20:4, 5.

b. The order of this resurrection. This is the third of four major biblical resurrections. These are:

(1) The resurrection of Christ (1 Cor. 15:23).

(2) The resurrection of believers at the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:51-53).

(3) The resurrection of Old Testament and tribulational saints.

(4) The resurrection of the unsaved (Rev. 20:5, 11-14).

Thus one of the reasons for the Second Coming will be to resurrect those non-church-related saints. For many long centuries Father Abraham has been patiently awaiting that city “which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God” (Heb. 11:10); God will not let him down.

7. To judge fallen angels .

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels?” (1 Cor. 6:3).

All fallen angels are of course included in this judgment. But some believe that they fall into two main categories—chained and unchained.

a. Unchained fallen angels.

“And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion, because many devils were entered into him. And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep” (Lk. 8:30, 31).

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Eph. 6:12).

The point of these passages is simply this—there is a group of fallen angels (demons) who have freedom of movement, and can therefore possess the bodies of both men and animals. Their one sin was that of following Satan in his foul rebellion against God. See Isaiah 14:12-17; Ezekiel 28:12-19.

b. Chained fallen angels.

“Christ also suffered. He died once for the sins of all us guilty sinners, although he himself was innocent of any sin at any time, that he might bring us safely home to God. But though his body died, his spirit lived on, and it was in the spirit that he visited the spirits in prison, and preached to them—spirits of those who, long before in the days of Noah, had refused to listen to God, though he waited patiently for them while Noah was building the ark. Yet only eight persons were saved from drowning in that terrible flood” (1 Pet. 3:18-20, tlb). (See also 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6.)

According to the above passages these fallen angels do not have the freedom the previous angels do, but are right now in “solitary confinement” awaiting their judgment at the end of the tribulation. Why the difference? Many Bible scholars believe that this group of angels was guilty of two grievous sins—not only did they join Satan’s revolt, but they also committed sexual perversion with “the daughters of men” before the flood. See Genesis 6:2.

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The Second Coming of Christ


Surely John the apostle must have penned the following words with great awe.

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever” (Rev. 11:15).

“And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS” (Rev. 19:11-16).


A. The chronology of the Second Coming of Christ.

1. It begins with fearful manifestations in the skies.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken” (Mt. 24:29).

“And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring, men’s hearts failing them for fear…for the powers of heaven shall be shaken” (Lk. 21:25, 26).

2. In the midst of this, the heavens open and Jesus comes forth.

“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” (Mt. 24:30).

“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him…” (Rev. 1:7).

“And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True…” (Rev. 19:11).

3. The returning Savior touches down upon the Mount of Olives, causing a great earthquake (Zech. 14:4, 8). Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost writes the following concerning this earthquake:

“A news magazine reported some time ago that a large hotel chain has sent a crew of engineers and geologists to Jerusalem to explore the possibility of building a hotel on the top of the Mount of Olives. After their exploration they reported that the site was a poor place to build because the Mount of Olives is the center of a geological fault, and an earthquake in that area might divide the Mount and a hotel would certainly be destroyed. So they decided against building there and found another piece of property in another area. Subsequently another hotel was erected on the Mount of Olives which provides a breathtaking view of the old city of Jerusalem.” (Will Man Survive? p. 162)

4. After touching down on the Mount of Olives, Christ proceeds to Petra and Bozrah, two chief cities in Edom. It would seem that he goes to Edom to gather the hiding Israelite remnant. Accompanied by the holy angels, the church, and the remnant, Christ marches toward Armageddon (Isa. 34:6; 63:1).

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Kindgo [thumbsup2]


The Rapture of the Church


A. The meaning of the word “rapture.” The term is derived from the Latin verb rapere, which means “to transport from one place to another.” Thus the next great scheduled event predicted by the Bible will take place when the Lord Jesus comes in the air to catch up his own. Several key passages bring this out:

“For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thess. 4:15-17, nasb).

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Cor. 15:51-53).


B. The participants of the rapture. For whom will Jesus come? It is the view of this theological summary that Christ will come again for his church, which is composed of all saved people from Pentecost up to the rapture itself. The actual participants of the rapture include:

1. The Lord Jesus himself.

2. The archangel (perhaps Michael; see Dan. 10:13, 21; 12:1; Jude 9; Rev. 12:7).

3. The bodies of dead believers: “for this corruptible must put on incorruption.”

4. The translated bodies of living believers: “and this mortal must put on immortality.”


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Kindgo
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When was the Gospel preached to all the nations? When was the Mark of the Beast implemented? What about China's 200-million-man army? When did 100-pound hailstones fall from the sky? And what date was it when the Euphrates River dried up?

The questions are endless. Why did we have the rebirth of Israel? If Jerusalem was forever removed from being the burdensome stone, why has it now returned to that status? When did all the Jews shout, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord," as Jesus said they would?

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Hello Zeena.

I believe your post was right on . The link you gave though, which you got it from, started to go off course concerning the abomination of desolation. The temple in Jerusalem was desolate long before the Muslims built anything over it. Consider the following words of Christ.

Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

When Christ was crucified the purpose of the old covenant temple, or sanctuary had been fulfilled. The true Lamb of God had been sacrificed, and by the hands of the very ones who worshipped at the temple which pointed to this very event. God’s presents left the earthly temple, never to return. Christ is now our High Priest in the temple in heaven, who ever liveth to intercede for us.

The leaders of the Jews rejected and crucified their only Lord and Savior. The result was that their house was left unto them desolate, that is void of God’s presence. From that moment forward, it was doomed to destruction. Thus when Christ was crucified, the curtain separating the holy from the most holy was torn in two, that all might see that God was no longer there.

Matt 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Since the establishment of the new covenant, all biblical prophecy concerning Israel are directed toward spiritual Israel, which is the body of Christ. So also, all biblical prophecy concerning the temple of God are also directed to the same, for the body of Christ is the temple of God in the new covenant dispensation. The temple of God in the new covenant is in heaven where Christ our High Priest intercedes for us, and on earth in the body of His believers, both individually, and corporately. It is through them that God is reaching out to all the world. Thus the commission to preach the gospel of the kingdom in all the world, then the end shall come.

The prophecies relating to the cleansing, polluting, and the casting down of the sanctuary are now in relation to spiritual Israel, which is the body of Christ, and the temple of God on earth during this new covenant dispensation. Those who are still looking for the fulfillment of biblical prophecy in relation to the literal nation of Israel, and their literal temple, which the Lord Himself pronounced desolate, are being mislead. The purpose of which, is to prevent them from understanding the true fulfillment of biblical prophecy, and therefore warn the world of the same. The devil does not want the world to be warned concerning the truth of God’s word, thus he creates as many counterfeits of the truth as he possibly can to confuse and divide. The longer he can delay the Lord’s coming, the longer he lives to spread his lies and rebellion against the King of heaven.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Zeena, nicely done. that's exactly what I believe. love, eden

Love and Peace and Joy and Righteousness be yours in the Holy Spirit precious Saint! [Big Grin]

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Eden
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Zeena, nicely done. that's exactly what I believe. love, eden
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quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:
The tribulation begans sometime after the rapture when the antichrist signs a peace treaty for seven years (Dan 9:27).

quote:
Jesus had died. He had been “cut off from he land of the living.” On the third day, He was raised back up to life. On the following forty days, He met with His apostles to help them in understanding how the events that they had witnessed had been prophesied and how that His rejection, death, burial and resurrection were a fulfillment of these ancient prophecies. There were over 300 prophecies written from 400 to 1,000 years previous to His coming. All of them were fulfilled.

One of the most remarkable (to me, at least) of these prophecies is one made by Daniel. "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place. o you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." (Daniel 9:24-27).

The Historical Context
The nation of Judah had fallen away from God. Jeremiah had foretold that God would withhold His blessings and protection, and that Judah would be conquered and taken into captivity which would last for 70 years (Jeremiah 25:12; 29:10). This was later fulfilled when Babylon conquered Judah and took them into captivity, the first deportation according to history took place in 605 B.C. and the return in 535 B.C. Daniel himself was one of the young men taken into captivity and lived to see the the return commence under Darius (Daniel 9:2).

70 years fulfilled a Divine pattern. The Law of Moses had commanded that every 7th year be a “sabbatical year.” This Law of God had been neglected for most of Israel's history, so the Lord decreed that they would spend one year in captivity for every sabbatical year they had failed to keep as a nation. They had missed 70 sabbatical years during their 490 years as a nation.

But also, this 490 year figure not only looked back into time, it also looked forward. The Messiah would come and “make atonement for iniquity” in 70 units of seven, referred to in the context as “weeks” but the word means a unit of seven. In this case, it would not be 7 days but 7 years (Daniel 9:24; cf. 2 Chronicles 36:20,21; Leviticus 25:3,4).

The time of Daniel's prophecy can be precisely pin pointed due to the mention of Darius beginning his reign (Daniel 9:1,2). This would make it 538 B.C. The angel Gabriel assures Daniel that not only will he see the return from captivity, but also gives much more far reaching information concerning the coming of the Messiah another five centuries in the future.

The Messiah and His Mission
The prophecy states forth the primary mission of the Messiah, and gives several particulars in addition to a very precise timing of the event:

1) He would come and deal with the problem of sin. (9:24). Note three different phrases used in the prophecy; “to finish the transgression”; “to make an end of sin”; “to make atonement for iniquity.” Jesus introduced a system by His own blood through which one can be washed from his sins and held accountable for them no longer as well as continue to be forgiven as one walks by faith and seeks forgiveness by repentance.

2) He would bring in everlasting righteousness. (9:24). Jesus enacted heaven's plan to make sinners righteous by grace through faith (Romans 1:16,17; 3:21-26).

3) He would seal up the vision (9:24). This means to bring to completion; to close or finish. With the coming of Jesus and His new covenant, Divine revelation was completed. With the generation who were alive during Jesus' life, we see the last living prophets and prophetesses. With those men and women and the messages given through them, prophecy would cease. (Hebrews 1:1,2; 1 Corinthians 13:8-10).

4) He would anoint the Holy Place. (9:24). Jesus is the Messiah (Hebrew), or Christ (Greek). Both of these words mean “anointed one.” When Jesus ascended into heaven, He entered the true, spiritual Holy Place where He lives and intercedes for us (Hebrews 9:11,12).

5) He will make a firm covenant with many. (9:27). His covenant is the New Testament, ratified by His death (Hebrews 8:6).

6) He will bring OT sacrifices to an end. (9:27). He did this by offering Himself as our only perfect sin offering, thus fulfilling the Law and taking that system out of the way. (Hebrews 7:18,19; 24,25).

The Prophetic Chronology
Daniel's prophecy itself indicates when it will be fulfilled. It tells us of the beginning point, the duration period, and the fulfilling event.

The beginning point (9:25). The edict to rebuild Jerusalem is where we begin the 490 year count down to the Messiah. There were actually three such edicts issued, so we'll have to figure out which one.

The duration period (9:24). 70 weeks. Again, the term “week” means “unit of seven” and could refer to seven days, weeks, months or years. Since the looking back covered 490 years, then it is reasonable to do the same looking forward.

The fulfilling event (9:26). This would be the 'cutting off of the Messiah.” This refers to His death. This will happen in the middle of the final “unit of seven” or 486 1/2 years in the future.

In 457 B.C. Ezra led a group back to rebuild Jerusalem by the King's edict (Ezra 7:6,7; 9:9). To this beginning point. Add the above 486 1/2 years and we come to 30 A.D. which is the date of the crucifixion! Following this, as punishment for putting the Messiah to death, Jerusalem would be destroyed. This, too, was accomplished by the Roman armies led by ''the prince who is to come” (this would be Titus who would take his father's place as emperor) exactly as Daniel had said (cf. Matthew 24:15; 34). After a siege, Jerusalem was burned and the sanctuary was completely destroyed. But Jesus had already ascended back to heaven to serve in the new sanctuary. Our hope is in Him!

Source --> http://bibleprobe.com/daniel1.htm

Isaiah 22:25
"In that day," declares the LORD of hosts, "the peg driven in a firm place will give way; it will even break off and fall, and the load hanging on it will be cut off, for the LORD has spoken."

Zechariah 13:7
“ Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion,” Says the LORD of hosts. “ Strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.

Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

John 19:30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:4
and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Romans 6:9
knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.

Ephesians 4:8
Therefore He says:
“ When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

1 Corinthians 15:55
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Eden
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Kindgo wrote
quote:
I have a hard time understanding how these folks could think pretribulationists preach a secret rapture. We seem to be doing our very best to popularize the rapture before it takes place. I doubt that, afterwards, with all the car wrecks, plane crashes, and missing persons reports, the rapture will remain a secret occurrence.
It is hard for me to believe that the Loving Lord would cause many people to die in car wrecks and plane wrecks before they would have a "second" chance at salvation.

And what about that trumpet of God that will sound BEFORE the dead in Christ are raised and we Christians are caught up to meet Him in the air? Are you proposing that the dead in Christ and the alive Christians will be the only ones hearing that trumpet, and, if so, what scripture do you have for that opinion?

Thank you, eden

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quote:
The only people I know who are attempting to keep the pre-trib rapture a secret are its critics. Pre-wrath and post-trib folks have the national media and the liberal churches as their allies in their ongoing effort to silence all knowledge of the "blessed hope."
Yea, the media and the liberal churches are real supportive of those of us who believe the world will be destroyed when Christ returns.

Please show me the scriptural evidence for the idea that Christ will hide somewhere behind the clouds and take His people away, leaving the rest of the earth with a second chance at salvation.

Y. b. in C. Keith

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WildB
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THAT BLESSED HOPE
by Cornelius R. Stam

We wish all of our readers a blessed New Year. For believers in Christ it will be the most blessed of all if this year turns out to be the year of our Lord's coming for His own. How long the present dispensation of grace will be prolonged we do not, and cannot, know. Even St. Paul, who was commissioned to make known the glorious truth of the rapture of the Church, did not know. He never dreamed that God would linger in mercy for more than 1900 years, for in I Thes. 4:16-18 he says:

"We who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall be caught up..."

Thus instructed Bible-believers in every generation since his day have rightly been on the alert for their Lord to come for them, for they know that "the days are evil" and every hour is an hour of grace.

To the Philippians the Apostle wrote: "We look for the Savior," to the Thessalonians: "[Ye]... wait for His [God's] Son from heaven," and to Titus he says that we should be "looking for that blessed hope, and the appearing in glory of ...our Savior, Jesus Christ" (Phil. 3:20; I Thes. 1:9,10; Tit. 2:11-13).

With the Lord's coming and the close of "the dispensation of the grace of God" so much nearer than it was in Paul's day, we say to the unsaved: "Receive not the grace of God in vain.... Behold, now is the accepted time; behold now is the day of salvation" (II Cor. 6: 1,2).

And to the saved we say: "Buy up the time," take advantage of every opportunity to win the lost to Christ, for "the days are evil" (Eph. 5:16) and the day of grace may soon be brought to a close.

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That is all.....

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Kindgo
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"There is no secret rapture" is the beginning declaration of a large percentage of messages that attack the rapture. Rarely is this statement backed by supporting scriptural evidence. A few people will cite Rev 1:17, "every eye shall see him," as proof that the rapture will not be a secret event. Of course, I would immediately note that "every eye shall see him" is the second coming.

I have a hard time understanding how these folks could think pretribulationists preach a secret rapture. We seem to be doing our very best to popularize the rapture before it takes place. I doubt that, afterwards, with all the car wrecks, plane crashes, and missing persons reports, the rapture will remain a secret occurrence.

The only people I know who are attempting to keep the pre-trib rapture a secret are its critics. Pre-wrath and post-trib folks have the national media and the liberal churches as their allies in their ongoing effort to silence all knowledge of the "blessed hope."

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Eden
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Hey, Keith, I liked that: the context is that it will not be a secret, but a surprise. Very good. love, eden
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AS A THIEF


Matt 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

The context here is not that the Lord's coming will be a secret, but rather a surprise. Just as the world was surprised by the flood, because they did not believe it would happen, so will the world be surprised when Christ returns because they do not believe in Him. Those who were left behind in the flood died, so will those who are left behind when Christ returns. Peter speaks of this.

2 Pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Here again, the Lord does come as a thief, but not in secret. It would be hard for the people in the world not to know that the heavens, and the earth were being burned up. Just as those who refused to accept God's salvation through Noah were destroyed by the flood, so those who refuse to accept God's salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ will be destroyed by fire. This event could hardly be kept a secret.


Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; 36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Once again, the message here is not that Christ's coming will be a secret, but rather a surprise. The warning is to be ready, so as not to be caught off guard.

1Thes 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Again, those who are awaiting the Lord's return will not be overtaken as by a thief. However, sudden destruction comes upon those who are not ready and waiting upon the Lord.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

The above scriptures, are all the scriptures in the new testament that use the word thief in regard to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The word secret is not found at all among them. Nor do the above verses present any conclusive statement, or argument to the effect that Christ will return again in secret. However, the word secret is used in the new testament scriptures while addressing the topic of the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. This scripture however, is a warning against believing anyone who says that Christ has returned in secret. We are not to believe this kind of report. Yet, the greatest majority of Christendom, believe the secret rapture theory.

Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

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Eden
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This Topic should be called "7 Rapture Traditions"

Kindgo wrote
quote:
1. The Rapture is a sign-less event.

In Matthew 24 the Lord Jesus gives us many "signs of the times", yet those signs occur during the
first half of the tribulation (see Matt 24:4-14 and Rev 6). Those signs do not signal the coming
rapture, rather those signs signal Christ's second coming to earth to reign (Matt 24:32-35).

The rapture, on the other hand, has no signs listed for it. It could literally happen at any moment. Consider what Paul said:

"Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a theif in the night" (1Thess 5:1-2)

Notice that the "day of the Lord" will come like a "thief in the night", that is unexpected. A thief does not call ahead and warn when they are coming, they come when you are not expecting. The same way with the "day of the Lord", it will happen when nobody expects it.

Understand that the phrase "day of the Lord" does not refer to the rapture. While it is not in the
scope of this post to look at the phrase "the day of the Lord", it is always used as a time of
judgment.

The rapture occurs AT THE SAME TIME as the Day of the LORD. The Lord Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", meaning He comes when no one expects Him to come, or "suddenly".

When the Lord comes suddenly, then the dead in Christ are raised and we Christians who are still alive on earth at that time will together be caught up to meet (apantesis) Him in the air in our glorified bodies and then we accompany the Lord Jesus and His angels to the earth where the LORD and Jesus finish the Day of the LORD by taking control of the earth from Jerusalem.

And it is stated plain as day in the scriptures. When the dead in Christ are raised and when we who are alive on the earth are caught up, is also when the Lord descends from heaven with a shout:

1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We are caught up when the Lord comes down with a lot of noise. Now that's the rapture truth and it is NOT sign-less. It will be very noisy.

eden

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Good NewsforAll
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Thanks for making it more clear.

--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
they: in darkness and overtaken suddenly by the thief
saints: not in darkness and NOT overtaken suddenly by the thief

There is no thief. This is referring to Jesus. The words say he will come as a "as a thief" or some versions say "like a thief", meaning there will be no warning. Destruction and darkness will begin immediately after the Rapture.

Of course there is no thief. I was merely continuing the analogy presented by Paul. The One who comes "like a thief" will only surprise those who are in darkness. We who are not in darkness will not be surprised.

I know this flies in the face of decades of church tradition, nevertheless it's true. But, because this is the online bbs and I am not your teacher in the Lord you can take it or leave it.

Aaron

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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
they: in darkness and overtaken suddenly by the thief
saints: not in darkness and NOT overtaken suddenly by the thief

There is no thief. This is referring to Jesus. The words say he will come as a "as a thief" or some versions say "like a thief", meaning there will be no warning. Destruction and darkness will begin immediately after the Rapture.

quote:
Originally posted by Aaron."Let us watch". Interesting. That implies that there is something to watch for. Like a sign or signal or something. That would make sense considering that the saints are not in darkness and can therefore watch for out for the thief.
Let us watch means to be on guard or be sure that you are ready.

--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:

"Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you.
For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a theif in the night"

Whoa there, bro. We need to read on:

quote:
1Th 5:3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
The operative word is "they". To whom does "they" refer?
Well, to the "they" sudden destruction comes upon them. Certainly, I don't want to be the "they". I better read on...

quote:
1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
Oh, good. Paul is making a distinction between the "they" and the saints. "But you..." he writes. This denotes a clear difference between the "they" who will be suddenly destroyed and the saints.
And notice, the saints are not in darkness. So we have:

they: in darkness and overtaken suddenly by the thief
saints: not in darkness and NOT overtaken suddenly by the thief

Let's read on:

quote:

1Th 5:5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.

Ah, more distinction between the saints and the non-believers. We are not of the night (of which the thief is named) nor are we of darkness. The thief will only overtake those of his realm: night and darkness.

quote:
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
"Let us watch". Interesting. That implies that there is something to watch for. Like a sign or signal or something. That would make sense considering that the saints are not in darkness and can therefore watch for out for the thief.

So, while the Day comes as a thief in the night for those in darkness it will not come so to those who are not in darkness and are therefore watching.

This reasoning goes along with this verse:

quote:
Hbr 10:24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
Hbr 10:25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Bless you,
Aaron

For your consideration I'll send you a link to some teachings about this issue.

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Good NewsforAll
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Great posts Kindgo. The signless Rapture will be much different that Jesus' Second Coming, with all of its great fanfair, as explained in Rev. 19.

There is just one thing I don't agree with.
In Rev. 7 it mentions the 144,000, and I believe they and all of their converts will be raptured to miss the wrath of the mark of the beast, during the Great Tribulation of the second 3 1/2 years,fulfilling God's promise again that the righteous aren't appointed to wrath.(1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.)

Rev.7:9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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Carol Swenson
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Revelation 6:9 (NLT)

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony.


People who come to faith in Jesus Christ our Lord after the Rapture, during the tribulation, will be killed.

Don't miss the Rapture!

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Kindgo
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Distinctions between Second Comeing and The Rapture
From Hal Lindsey book Vanished ....and excellent book...a must read ...


1 Thessalonians 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

((((NOTICE:He doesnt come to earth he shouts from heaven...so this cannot be his second coming...he will put feet on mount olives on second comeing)


17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


The Rapture
1.Translation of believers into immortality

2.Saints go to heaven

3.Only believers judged for rewards

4.Earth not judged

5.Can occur at any moment without signs

6.Not predicted in Old Testament

7.Affects believers only

8.Before the day of wrath

9.No reference to satan

10.Christ comes for his own

11.He comes in the air

12.He claims his bride

13.Only the elect will see him
(((Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;
and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. )))


14.Tribulation begins


The Second Coming

1.Believers must remain mortals

2.saints remain on earth

3.Belivers and unbelivers judged on earth

4.Earth judged

5.Date can be calculated (2,520 days,days after AC treaty with Israel)

6.Predicted in Old Testament

7.Affects all men

8.Concludes the Day Of Wrath

9.Satan bound for 1,000 years

10.Christ comes with his own

11.His foot splits the Mount of Olives

12.He comes with his bride

13.Every eye shall see him (((Every eye shall see him Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds;
and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth
shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. )))

14.Millennial Kingdom begins

I just want to add one thing in here for those who think we will be raptured mid trib or even pos trib.....

Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear,
and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed:
and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying,
Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto
him to continue forty [and] two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle,
and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him
over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the
Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

(((((NOTICE IN HERE IT SAYS ............ALL that dwell on earth shall worship him (satan) ...No saints
are here because the verse before that says those who refuse will be killed

They will be KILLED not Raptured ...not taken out of the way ....not caught up)))))))))If you are here
in Tribulation you will be killed .....


9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
(((((THIS SAYS UNDERSTAND WHAT IT SAYETH))))))))))))

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the
sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
((((((((((trying to save your own lives is a no no ...))))))))))being armed and self defense wont work....


11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake
as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which
dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do
in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast,
which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak,
and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand,
or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man;
and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

Also read about the two witnesses.....when the Lord says come up hither...and no trumpet ....no dead in Christ rose first and no one was raptured but them alone..
So no mid trib here is there?

Please carefull consider all this...study it hard...read that word carefully......


That verse keeps going over and over in my mind.....Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;
and((((((( unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation)))))))).

IF we are not looking for that Rapture then we will be here to die for him then in the tribulation...............................


And you will have to watch all the wicked and chaotic things take place.................May even include some loved ones being hurt
Remember ..........he says ...if you love your family more than me you cannot be my deciples....They may put family under arrest and kill them to get your attention....

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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Kindgo
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There are seven truths about the rapture that I would like to explain in this post.
1. The Rapture is a sign-less event.

In Matthew 24 the Lord Jesus gives us many "signs of the times", yet those signs occur during the
first half of the tribulation (see Matt 24:4-14 and Rev 6). Those signs do not signal the coming
rapture, rather those signs signal Christ's second coming to earth to reign (Matt 24:32-35). The
rapture, on the other hand, has no signs listed for it. It could literally happen at any moment.
Consider what Paul said:

"Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you.
For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a theif in the night"
1Thess 5:1-2

Notice that the "day of the Lord" will come like a "theif in the night", that is unexpected. A theif does
not call ahead and warn when they are coming, they come when you are not expecting. The same
way with the "day of the Lord", it will happen when nobody expects it.

Understand that the phrase "day of the Lord" does not refer to the rapture. While it is not in the
scope of this post to look at the phrase "the day of the Lord", it is always used as a time of
judgment. In the prophetic sense it refers to the seven year tribulation period. The rapture happens
before the seven year tribulation, but the rapture does not start the tribulation. The tribulation begans
sometime after the rapture when the antichrist signs a peace treaty for seven years (Dan 9:27). That
is technically when the "day of the Lord" starts. However what Paul is saying here is that the whole
thing will come with out warning. The rapture will happen without warning, and the world will be
plunged into darkness and the judgments of the day of the Lord.

So the rapture is a signless event.

2. The Rapture is a sudden event

Not only is the rapture a signless event, there will be no warnings that it is about to occur, the
rapture is also a sudden event. That is, the whole thing will happen without warning and be over with
just as suddenly. Paul said:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery...in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...the dead will be raised" 1Cor
15:51a,52in part

It will happen "in a moment" and in the "twinkling of an eye". What does that mean? It means that
the rapture will happen suddenly, and will only last as long as it takes you to blink your eye. Now
that is sudden and fast!

Sometimes I am asked if I believe in a secret rapture, my answer is this: No, I don't believe in a
"secret" rapture, but I do believe in a instant rapture. A rapture that comes with out warning, and is
over with before any lost person knows what happened. Thus it will appear as if Christians vanish,
but we want. We will just be "caught up" so fast that the world will miss it.

The bottom line is this: The rapture will happen without warnings or signs, and when it happens it
will be very quick. Thus there is no "getting ready", you either will be ready when the rapture
happens or you will be left behind to suffer through the wrath of God (the tribulation). That is why
today is the day of salvation, you don't know what tomorrow will bring. It may bring death, or
rapture. You just don't know.

3. The Rapture is a mystery

Back again to 1Cor 15 where Paul says:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery.." vs51a

The rapture is a "mystery", that is it is a truth that was unknown, or unrevealed, before the Lord
revealed it to Paul. And that is where Paul got this doctrine, from Jesus. Notice what he says:

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord.." 1Thess 4:15a (see also Gal 1:11-18).

The rapture is not to be found in the Old Testament, nor is to be found in the Gospels. Jesus does
mention it twice in the Gospels (Jn 14:3 and Lk 21:36), but He does not explain it or teach about it.
Paul was the first one to mention it in detail.

This is one major point that seperates the rapture from the Second Coming. The Second Coming is
no "mystery", it was known in the Old Testament. The rapture, however, is a mystery because it
was a new revelation from God to Paul the Apostle.

4. The Rapture is a blessed hope

"looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ
Jesus." Titus 2:13

Why does Paul call the rapture a blessed hope? Because in the doctrine of the rapture we find hope
for the future. Not only our future, but also the future of those who we know who die saved. Paul
explains this in 1Thess 4:13-15 when he says:

"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will
not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even
so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you byt the
word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord wil not preced
those who have fallen asleep."

The rapture is a blessed hope, because we know that we and our saved loved ones will be raised to
be with Christ forever. It indeed gives a blessed hope for the future.

5. The Rapture is a pre-tribulational

Another reason the rapture is indeed is a blessed hope is because it promises us escape from the
wrath to come. The tribulation that will happen following the rapture is a time of wrath, when God
pours out His wrath on this earth (Rev 6:15-17, Zeph 1:14-18, Joel 2:1-2, Rev 15:1, 16:1). This
time, He has directly promised that, His church will escape:

"and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us
from the wrath to come" 1Thess 1:10

and

"Because you have kept the word of My perseverence, I also will keep you FROM the hour of test,
that hour which is about to come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth" Rev
3:10

The church will escape, be kept from, the future tribulation.

6. The Rapture is a transforming event

At the rapture we will be forever transformed. The Bible promises:

"Behold, I show you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed..the dead will be
raised imperishable, and we will all be changed. For this perishable must put on imperishable, and
this mortal must put on immortality." 1Cor 15:51,52b-53

When the rapture happens all Christians, dead or alive, will be changed. Today we live in perishable
bodies, that is bodies that get sick and die. But at the rapture we will have our bodies raised and
changed into new imperishable bodies. If we are alive at the rapture, we will be instantly changed
into immortal bodies. Once the rapture happens, we will be changed forever. And death will have
totally lost its power:

"But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on
immorality, then will come about the saying that is written death is swallowed up in victory. O
Death, where is your victory? O Death, where is your sting?" 1Cor 15:54-55

7. The Rapture is a event for all believers

And lastly, all believers will be raptured. Look again at 1Cor 15 where Paul says clearly:

"we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed" 15:51b

All believers, living and dead, will be raptured. If you are a Christian you will not miss the rapture.

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
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