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Author Topic: Suicide
Zeena
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Revelation 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Revelation 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Carmela
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It seems kandi hasn't returned, but I would say this to anyone who has similar struggles.

Turn to Jesus. He loves you more than you could ever imagine and He promises to never leave you.

Here on earth, many people may come and go out of our lives. Many people may leave us before we are ready to let them go. But there is one that promises to NEVER leave you nor FORSAKE you. Let Him meet your needs and love you the way you deserve to be loved.

I know it's hard to turn to a spiritual being to meet a physical need that is here and now, but it is possible. As you learn to trust Jesus and turn to Him, He will love you, comfort you, and be all things to you.

I have grown up with more abuse and rejection from my mother and other families members than I care to remember. My mother tried to commit suicide many times, including shooting herself in the stomach. I wasn't told what she did until she was healed and in a rehab to help her because I was in foster care. As I became a woman and had a daughter of my own, I would face times in my life when I considered suicide also. However, when I look back at how I felt when my mother broke down, I realized that I don't want that for my daughter. I don't want her to grow up with the same tendencies because she learned them from me and I also don't want her to have to feel the pain of having a parent try to kill themselves. It was such a painful time. I need to become better and become a stronger person if I want to make a difference in my daughter's life and if I want to break generational patterns that have run through my family for so many years.

I grew up learning self-sabotage by watching those around me. Cutting, drugs, alcohol, suicide, are all ways of running away from the things we can't face. However, we are not healed and set free until we finally choose to stop and face those things head on.

I remember when it was time for me to finally stop and face reality before God. I was so afraid to remember some of the things of my past that I had forgotten or revist the painful memories I still held on to. God couldn't heal me because I didn't want to have to go back to those painful moments so I avoided them. It wasn't until I finally put my complete trust in the Lord that I was able to revisit the past and allow God to heal the scars that were on my heart from each event. I'm still a work in progress but thankfully, God isn't finished with me yet and He doesn't start something without finishing it. The same goes for you.

As for suicide. Only God can decide who He chooses and who He doesn't. Suicide seems like a quick and easy solution to a multitude of problems, but it's really only a cop out. Rather than worrying about whether we will be saved if we commit suicide, we should be focused on become the best man/woman that God intended us to be and created us to be before sin entered in and tried to ruin us.

Sometimes the pains of life overwhelm me, but I choose to focus on Jesus. Some day, I want to be with Him because I am a joint heir to the throne. For now, I just press on, turning to the Lord daily.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He is the only one who can truly help each of us.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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chosenone
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Hi Carol.
The title "chosenone" (chosen one), was picked by me to express the fact that I humbley confess that I could do nothing to effect my salvation.
Scripture says "All is of God", (1Cor.8:5-7, 1Cor.11:12, 2Cor.5:18, Ro.11:36)
I realised that nothing I could do could have an effect toward my salvation, for scripture says "His (God) achievement are we" (Eph.2:10).
I know this is not a view most christians believe, most feel we are instructed to "repent", be baptised, or invite God into our lives, change our ways, develope a "relationship" with Christ, and various other "works".
But scripture says, "We don't chose Him (God), but He chooses us. Here are some scriptures (2Tim.2:10, 1Peter5:13, Col.3:12, Mark13:20, Ro.8:33, Ro.9:11, Ro11:7), there are more, but these should be sufficient for now.
Scripture also says "the flesh cannot please God" (Ro.8:8)
The book of Ephesians is especially good at showing that God is in complete control. Some examples are:
1.4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,

5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,

1.13 In Whom you also -- on hearing the word of truth, the evangel of your salvation -- in Whom on believing also, you are sealed with the holy spirit of promise
14 (which is an earnest of the enjoyment of our allotment, to the deliverance of that which has been procured) for the laud of His glory!

1.11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,

1.18 the eyes of your heart having been enlightened, for you to perceive what is the expectation of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of the enjoyment of His allotment among the saints,

1.22 and subjects all under His feet, and gives Him, as Head over all, to the ecclesia which is His body, the complement of the One completing the all in all.

There are many more in this book alone (Ephesians), but I will leave this up to you if you are interested.
So you see, I used this name not as being someone special, but just the opposite, one who has done nothing of myself to earn salvation, but God alone is the saviour of all mankind (1Tim.4:9-11), He is the "potter" we are the "clay". He moulds us as He pleases.

Eph2:8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.

God Bless, Jerry.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
I'm sorry for your loss ChoseNone
Chose None?

or

Chosen One?

OOHHHH!

AHHHHH! [thumbsup2]

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
I'm sorry for your loss ChoseNone
Chose None?

or

Chosen One?

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Zeena
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I'm sorry for your loss ChoseNone! [Frown]
I too lost someone close this way. [Frown]

He was a born again Christian, who suffered much in during his short stay with us [he was 20 when he listened to that devil, which our Father allowed, for his benefit].

Andy really loved the Lord. I'm glad he's with Jesus now [angel3] , but I still miss him.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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chosenone
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I'm new to this site, and just learning how to post. My previous first two posts were blank because I didn't understand the format. My apollagies.

Blessings.

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chosenone
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[
quote:
Originally posted by WTxDaddy:

As one, who considered suicide in my youth, I can speak with some experience on this. Obviously, I did not commit suicide, but was driven to it by some rotten stuff in my life. Abusive father, extremely low self-esteem, feelings of worthlessness. I went to a psychologist (who was a Christian) and he helped me through this chronic depression imposed upon me by my father. I learned that his behavior is learned behavior & that he and his brothers were similarly abused by their father. I came to understand my father's behavior. But it took a while for me to undo the thinking patterns I'd adopted as a child: hyper criticism of self & all that. I was convinced, I was stupid, unloveable, worthless & was lucky not too many people had figured all this out. My psychologist was amazed I did not turn to drugs & alcohol as a teenager. I got active in church, but I still was at the core a self-loathing kid. As an adult, I often experienced depression - sometimes of a nearly debilitating magnitude. It caused me to make very bad decisions and to engage in self-destructive behavior, damaging my professional and personal life.

My therapy (thankfully without the assistance of chemicals!) revealed to me that we don't always see ourselves accurately. I thought I knew myself & my friends, who tried to encourage me, we naïve and didn't see me clearly.

All this to say, when a person is mentally disturbed by either organic, or environmental causes, what they end up thinking in their minds which leads them to cause their own deaths is not really different than a fatal physical disease, in my opinion. We are all afflicted in some way, either emotionally or physically. Some of these afflictions lead to an untimely earthly death. I don't think this would necessarily cause a person to lose their salvation.

[/QUOTE]

Hi WTxDaddy, I read this post with much interest. Both I and my wife of 48 years, had one of our parents commit suicide. My wifes father suffered from sever depression, in those days there was not the medication there is now, he was released from the army during WW2 because of this, and commited suicide later on. My wife was only 5 years old at the time, and loved her father very much.
My mother, a very loving mother, loved very much by me and others, took her own life. She was burdenend much of her life looking after her mother. She was a terrific, loving mother herself, when she became ill and later lost the use of the lower half of her body. She took her own life and left a note to us, she said she did this so as to "not be a burden to her children". It was because of the burden she had looking after her mother for most of her life, that she didn't want us to have the same. It was this love of us, her children, that she did this for us. What love she had for us, I'll never forget this love.
Because of the death of our parents who we both loved very much, later in our married life, we both felt much angish as to whether we would see them in heaven, or would they be in hell. We searched for an answer, attending various churches and speaking to many ministers, all were evasive, telling us not to worry, that God is a just God, and will judge accordingly. This was not very reassuring. But finally, God did answer us Himself. He baptized us with the "Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:5). He gave us an understanding of Himself though scripure. He pointed us to various scripture, showing us that He was "the saviour of all mankind" (1 Tim.4:9-11). The scriptures came alive, we understood that God is in complete control, He says in Isaiah 46:10 "All My desire I WILL DO", and this goes with (1 Tim.2:4) God wills all mankind to be saved. Also, "God is operating ALL in accord with the councel of His will" (Eph.1:11). So it began to dawn on us that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves, "All is of God",
(1Cor.11:12)(2Cor.5:18)(Ro.11:36). Look at Eph.2:10, "His (God) achievement are we". Again look in Eph.2:8-9, For in grace are you saved, and this is NOT out of you; it is Gods approach present, lest anyone shoul be boasting. There are many more scriptures that say "All is of God". We finally concluded that scripture is saying "All mankind will be saved". So I hope I haven't offended anyone, I know this is not the understanding of many, but I believe this is what scripture is saying.
Now I am not infalible, prone to error as any human is, but this is my belief.

God Bless, Jerry.

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chosenone
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quote:
Originally posted by WTxDaddy:
As one, who considered suicide in my youth, I can speak with some experience on this. Obviously, I did not commit suicide, but was driven to it by some rotten stuff in my life. Abusive father, extremely low self-esteem, feelings of worthlessness. I went to a psychologist (who was a Christian) and he helped me through this chronic depression imposed upon me by my father. I learned that his behavior is learned behavior & that he and his brothers were similarly abused by their father. I came to understand my father's behavior. But it took a while for me to undo the thinking patterns I'd adopted as a child: hyper criticism of self & all that. I was convinced, I was stupid, unloveable, worthless & was lucky not too many people had figured all this out. My psychologist was amazed I did not turn to drugs & alcohol as a teenager. I got active in church, but I still was at the core a self-loathing kid. As an adult, I often experienced depression - sometimes of a nearly debilitating magnitude. It caused me to make very bad decisions and to engage in self-destructive behavior, damaging my professional and personal life.

My therapy (thankfully without the assistance of chemicals!) revealed to me that we don't always see ourselves accurately. I thought I knew myself & my friends, who tried to encourage me, we naïve and didn't see me clearly.

All this to say, when a person is mentally disturbed by either organic, or environmental causes, what they end up thinking in their minds which leads them to cause their own deaths is not really different than a fatal physical disease, in my opinion. We are all afflicted in some way, either emotionally or physically. Some of these afflictions lead to an untimely earthly death. I don't think this would necessarily cause a person to lose their salvation.


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chosenone
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quote:
Originally posted by WTxDaddy:
As one, who considered suicide in my youth, I can speak with some experience on this. Obviously, I did not commit suicide, but was driven to it by some rotten stuff in my life. Abusive father, extremely low self-esteem, feelings of worthlessness. I went to a psychologist (who was a Christian) and he helped me through this chronic depression imposed upon me by my father. I learned that his behavior is learned behavior & that he and his brothers were similarly abused by their father. I came to understand my father's behavior. But it took a while for me to undo the thinking patterns I'd adopted as a child: hyper criticism of self & all that. I was convinced, I was stupid, unloveable, worthless & was lucky not too many people had figured all this out. My psychologist was amazed I did not turn to drugs & alcohol as a teenager. I got active in church, but I still was at the core a self-loathing kid. As an adult, I often experienced depression - sometimes of a nearly debilitating magnitude. It caused me to make very bad decisions and to engage in self-destructive behavior, damaging my professional and personal life.

My therapy (thankfully without the assistance of chemicals!) revealed to me that we don't always see ourselves accurately. I thought I knew myself & my friends, who tried to encourage me, we naïve and didn't see me clearly.

All this to say, when a person is mentally disturbed by either organic, or environmental causes, what they end up thinking in their minds which leads them to cause their own deaths is not really different than a fatal physical disease, in my opinion. We are all afflicted in some way, either emotionally or physically. Some of these afflictions lead to an untimely earthly death. I don't think this would necessarily cause a person to lose their salvation.


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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by WTxDaddy:
We are all afflicted in some way, either emotionally or physically. Some of these afflictions lead to an untimely earthly death. I don't think this would necessarily cause a person to lose their salvation.

It is so.

Though we are complete in Him, we lack.
Though we are perfected forever, we do not yet see it.
Though we are saved, we are also being saved and are coming to experience our Salvation in this life. Experiencing Jesus! [Big Grin]

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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quote:
Originally posted by Kandi Sunshine:
if someone commits suicide, do they go to Hell?

No.

It is the Lord Jesus who saves, not works, or lack thereof.

Did that person place thier hope in Him?

For we can, each and ever one of us, be deceived..

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Zeena
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Jesus was tempted with suicide..

That devil took our Lord to the pinnacle of the temple in Jerusalem and said to throw Yourself down.

But what did Jesus say?

Luke 4:12
And Jesus answered him, "It is said, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."

We have a Saviour who has been tempted on all points, as we are, yet without sin!!!

We are bid COME, and He will save us!!! [clap2]

Hebrews 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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WTxDaddy
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As one, who considered suicide in my youth, I can speak with some experience on this. Obviously, I did not commit suicide, but was driven to it by some rotten stuff in my life. Abusive father, extremely low self-esteem, feelings of worthlessness. I went to a psychologist (who was a Christian) and he helped me through this chronic depression imposed upon me by my father. I learned that his behavior is learned behavior & that he and his brothers were similarly abused by their father. I came to understand my father's behavior. But it took a while for me to undo the thinking patterns I'd adopted as a child: hyper criticism of self & all that. I was convinced, I was stupid, unloveable, worthless & was lucky not too many people had figured all this out. My psychologist was amazed I did not turn to drugs & alcohol as a teenager. I got active in church, but I still was at the core a self-loathing kid. As an adult, I often experienced depression - sometimes of a nearly debilitating magnitude. It caused me to make very bad decisions and to engage in self-destructive behavior, damaging my professional and personal life.

My therapy (thankfully without the assistance of chemicals!) revealed to me that we don't always see ourselves accurately. I thought I knew myself & my friends, who tried to encourage me, we naïve and didn't see me clearly.

All this to say, when a person is mentally disturbed by either organic, or environmental causes, what they end up thinking in their minds which leads them to cause their own deaths is not really different than a fatal physical disease, in my opinion. We are all afflicted in some way, either emotionally or physically. Some of these afflictions lead to an untimely earthly death. I don't think this would necessarily cause a person to lose their salvation.

--------------------
Texaner dritter Generation deutscher Abstammung

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WildB
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Bump for Kandi Sunshine

--------------------
That is all.....

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Michael Harrison
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So what you are saying chewey is to choose Christ. Choose Christ and let patience have its perfect work. He will not ignore thee.

When we choose Christ, we choose life (not this one) love, and His wisdom, so that the things that we think are against us, will be found to work for us. Moreover, it is amazing to see.

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KnowHim
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Amen! Chewy


.

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CHEWY
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This is one of those subjects that stir up a lot of opinions. We must recognize that suicide is sin. It is murder of one's self. Those who commit this sin are obviously those who have lost sight of hope or possibly those where the pain is intolerable, which in essence is lost hope. I do believe that "most" who commit this sin do end up in hell. However, lets consider some circumstances.

Those who leaped to their death from the Twin Towers on 9/11 committed suicide per the definition of the word. They chose the death of the fall rather than the torment of the death of flames. If they had accepted Christ and then this perilous siuation came, did they lose their salvation? I think not. God's gifts are w/o repentance and salvation is a gift from God.

Consider the cancer patient who refuses treatment that would only prolong their life for months, are they not committing suicide by the definition? They have two choices take the treatment and suffer the terrible side effects only to die anyway in terminal cases or not take the treatment and continue to live as quality of a life as possible. Do they go to hell because they refused treatment? I think not. The only reason we will wind up in hell is the rejection of Jesus Christ as our Savior.

What about the person whose mental status has impaired the rational thought process? Are they to be judged and condemned when they were unable to think rationally? I think not. However, the person who considers suicide for these reasons is using a logical thought process that would indicate to me that their mental impairment wasn't as severe as described above. Suicide in this case would most often be an action that happened out of impulse. They would not have had the mental ability to stop the action following the impulse.

What about the person who smokes and their physician tells them if you don't stop smoking it is going to kill you, yet they continue to smoke? Are they not also committing suicide? Where is their eternal destiny in all of this?

Which is worse the woman who would kill her children in a tub of water, or a woman who would kill herself to keep from doing it? I think we would all agree that the woman who would kill herself first is the better. No greater love has a man than to lay his own life down for his friends. Yet we won't condemn the woman who carried out the act of killing her own children. Even though we abhore the act of murdering the children, we hold out hope that she will turn to Christ for salvation/forgiveness.

We must remember that Salvation is lived out before God because of a love for God. Salvation is a gift that is given through faith in Christ as Savior. Salvation and faith are hand in hand. Suicide in itself generally [but not always] stems from a loss in our level of faith. Does it require a completely faithless moment? Surely not. That mustard seed of faith may have been what allowed some to step out of the window of the Twin Towers rather than suffer the flames. Perhaps they knew they were saved and were able to make that decision knowing their eternal destiny.

Suicide is most definitely a sinful act or at least the result of a sinful act. True Christians should never consider suicide. However it is within the power of God to allow the suicide of one saved person to test the faith of many other saved people or even to bring the unsaved to saving faith. His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

We cannot truly judge the salvation of anyone, but we can surely see the fruits of a life lived in Christ. I would recommend that you consider the lived profession of Christ and the display of love that can only come through the Father, rather than condemning someone for one fatal flaw/error.

Sin is a killer. The wages of sin is death. Hell is not the destination of anyone who commits sin [else we are all going there]. Hell is the destination of those who have committed the ultimate sin of rejecting the Gospel of Christ. Hell is the last stop for those who don't love the Lord.

If anyone reading this is considering suicide know this; There Is Hope! Paul promised us that God would always provide us with a way of escape from all of the trials of this world. If you are being persecuted....Rejoice! If you are facing shame for actions committed - understand that Christ hung and died on the Tree of Shame in your place. Their is no punishment, no shame, that He hasn't experienced. Give it all to Him. He is that way of escape.

Pray, Think and Listen -
He will answer

Chewy-

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Eden
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Hi, Kandi, I think that the best way to overcome this periodic suicide "addiction" is to "renew your mind" through the words in the Bible:

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Our thought life has become damaged and it needs to be repaired from the outside by the words that God has put into the Bible and from the inside by allowing the Holy Spirit to use our thought life.

Ask God to baptize your thought life with the love of God, for God is love. We realize that we are happy when we think about God and His Word but for the rest of the time, we realize that we are back to our own thought life alone again, that our own thought life is not very pretty.

What we need is God's thought life to speak through us:

Psalm 139:23
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Isaiah 55:8
For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD.

Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My
thoughts
higher than your thoughts.

Proverbs 23:7
For as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

But if, in the meantime, you were to be overcome by your current tendency toward self-inflicted injury, you would still be saved if you died, but the more time you put God's Word inside you, the more your mind will be renewed, and you will see life God's way, Kandi.

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Look, here! Or, look, there! For, look, the kingdom of God is within you.

We need to pray for God to baptize our thought life in the Spirit of Love for:

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he who dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.

What we need to pray for is for God to baptize us with holy, divine love, to replace our mostly dysfunctional human love. So pray to God and ask Him, "God, give me some of Your holy love in plave of what I have?"

Luke 11:13
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more then shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them who ask Him?

Be blessed in Christ Jesus, Kandi.
eden

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Michael Harrison
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Well thanks for telling us kandi. I see that you are concerned about it. That's the best. You know that others share your concern. Do you believe that? Someone else has gone through that, or something similar, and they share your agony. But you know that this is not going to hurt you because He is protecting you. Nothing is warmer than to feel His reassuring smile and feeling His confidence within you. His heart is this big, and loving and He wants to reassure you. That is worth a whole lot because it means something knowing that He cares.

But like I was saying before, life hates us. But He loves us and can make it work out, or go away. It is invaluable to know that. And don't worry about asking questions. Ask away.

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Kandi Sunshine
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First- Kandi refers to the term "kandi kid". Kandi kids are people who wear lots of bright colors and rainbows and they love cute and happy things such as Hello Kitty and Carebears. That's how I am most of the time. I love bright neon colors and cute fluffy things. :]


Second- The reason I ask is because I do have friends who have done it, and I have a tendency toward it as well but I have borderline personality disorder so I think a lot of it comes from that.
I pray. But there's chemical reasons why some people injure themselves because of adrenaline and endorphins and such. I haven't done it in around 6 months (yay) but it truly is an addiction and in no way do I think it's the work of God, I think it's the work of Satan that drives some people to do such an action.
Maybe it's something people need time to grow out of, I think.

--------------------
"In a sick way I wanna thank you, for holding my head up late at night. While I was busy waging wars on myself, you were trying to stop the fight." -Blue October

I ask a lot of questions.

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Michael Harrison
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Let me try again. Kandi, cutting, burning and other such of which you mentioned, are symptoms of something. They do not appear to be good symptoms? No? Where something is wrong, Jesus is willing to minister. Judging by the symptoms, something is wrong, will you agree? I don't imagine that anyone will find such things acceptable, and casually brush off concern, if they are rooted in His love. These do not reflect a relationship with God, these symptoms. But I really don't know what your deeper concern is? Are you concerned for someone whom you know who does this? Or are you asking because you have a tendency towards these things? In either case, they are not 'healthy' symptoms, which is to say that they are not ok. They indicate that whomever is experiencing them is missing something that God longs to give, which brings them closer to Him. These symptoms do not do that.
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Eden
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Hi, Michael Harrison. You said
quote:
Cutting, burning? You know kandi, life is brutal on people. Things like this are the manifestations of life's brutalness. Things like this are like, bad fruit. Bad fruit happens to people who are tangled in sin. Sin simply means separation from God. Clearly there is no love in such actions, which illustrates separation from Him. These things are awful. But God is love. He carries one beyond such things, when the one will discover Him. And He is longing for the one to discover Him so that HE can show them. One does not have to feel condemned. Only reach out. He will meet you.
But there are times, Michael Harrison, like the thief on the cross who believed, when the new believer has "no time to mature" and "to learn all the things that we can learn, if there is time".

Some new believers come from such horrid backgrounds that they thankfully became believers, but then they were overcome, like the thief on the cross, by their historical cross to which they were nailed, before they could mature, and they died believing in Jesus. I'm thankful I'm not having any thoughts of suicide, Amen?

But to die in Christ is glory. Just ask the thief who heard Jesus say:

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said to the thief on the cross, Verily I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in paradise.

I thank God that I have had time to mature in the knowledge of God and His Son Jesus. But I've come from a fairly nice family; but some new believers come from very difficult and psychologically and emotionally dangerous families. They may die on the cross like the thief did, but thankfully, after they believed that Jesus died for their sins. They are wholly saved:

Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.

with love, eden

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Michael Harrison
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Does kandi sunshine mean sweet sunshine?

Cutting, burning? You know kandi, life is brutal on people. Things like this are the manifestations of life's brutalness. Things like this are like, bad fruit. Bad fruit happens to people who are tangled in sin. Sin simply means separation from God. Clearly there is no love in such actions, which illustrates separation from Him. These things are awful. But God is love. He carries one beyond such things, when the one will discover Him. And He is longing for the one to discover Him so that HE can show them. One does not have to feel condemned. Only reach out. He will meet you.

When someone has these afflictions, they want attention. They need it. He will give it. The one has to make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to talk to Him about it.

When being concerned for another who is in this condition, there are at least two things to do: ONe is pray. The other is to be a friend, and not condemn. People have enough of that already. Concerning prayer, pray it. Know that He heard. Believe that He is already working it out. Walk through till you come out on the other side. Just like a Hollywood movie about walking throug the Black Forest, to get to the castle, the devil will make it scary to get one to turn back. But he cannot withstand faith. See the goal and go for it.

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Kandi Sunshine
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Good posts.

What about self-destructive behaviors such as cutting, burning, ect.?

I know people who have done it. It's a sad sight.
Is that a sin though?
It's always confused me.

--------------------
"In a sick way I wanna thank you, for holding my head up late at night. While I was busy waging wars on myself, you were trying to stop the fight." -Blue October

I ask a lot of questions.

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Eden
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I think suicide is as much of a sin symptom as any other self-destructive behavior. If the person is NOT a saved Christian, then that person is like all the other persons who did not accept Christ.

But if the person committing suicide had just become a Christian by putting their faith in the finished work of Jesus, then it is a bit harder to understand why a person having put his or her faith in Jesus WOULD commit suicide.

However, it may be that the family history of this newborn Christian ("a babe in Christ") falls victimm to one more great depression and commits suicide as a newborn Christian, then I think this person is saved and God will regard the suicide as "merely another kind of sin that Jesus already died for", and the person will be saved, in my opinion.

love, eden

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oneinchrist
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There is nothing hidden in the heart that God cannot see. That is why He is the just Judge. There are some who may commit a certain sin that God holds accountable and others who commit the same sin who receives less of a consequence. There are factors such as age of accountability/responsibility, mental illness, physical incapacitations, etc. that I am sure God considers. It is willfull rejection of His Son Jesus Christ and living in intentful rebellion to Him and His will that He will not tolerate.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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TB125
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Kandi,
Are your questions really in regard to the people of Africa, or are your questions more personal in regard to your own salvation? The people of Africa and you and me will each one day have to stand before God, and he and Jesus are the ones who will decide the salvation/fate of each person. Questions, like those you ask in the preceeding message, are sometimes expressed by a person who is seeking to avoid more personal issues of his or her relationship with God. Is that why you apparently have a lot of questions? Let me know, maybe I can help you to find some answers to your personal questions.

--------------------
Bob

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Kandi Sunshine
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Good answers.
I just feel so bad for people who are depressed and Christian.
I'm one of them (though not suicidal), but depression and other mental illness is a disease. So really, no matter how much praying you do, the chemical imbalances would still be there, altering your thoughts and impulsive actions.
I'd just hate to think that someone suffering so much pain would be condemned in eternal flame for trying to escape their own torture, you know?
I like to believe that God is the only one who can judge.
For example, what about the tribes in Africa who are dying without hearing the Lord's word? It's impossible for them to get saved because they haven't even been told of Christ. I don't think they're condemned. I think that God can read our hearts and know all about us. He can see "Hm well if those African tribes did hear of me, would they have become saved Christians?" and just know, and then decide if they would have been faithful enough to go to Heaven.

:]

--------------------
"In a sick way I wanna thank you, for holding my head up late at night. While I was busy waging wars on myself, you were trying to stop the fight." -Blue October

I ask a lot of questions.

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TB125
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I don't think that any one of us can say with any authority that one's act of suicide condemns the person to hell anymore than if he or she was to murder someone else or have an abortion. It is important to remember that salvation and judgment are always under the direction and authority of God, and most of us don't have the authority or the wisdom to know in every case what He is going to decide to do with anyone who stands before Him and his judge, Jesus.

The Scriptures seem to indicate the fate of Judas, but he is a unique individual. Jesus apparently knew that he was a "devil" when he chose him (John 6:70). Jesus knew that he would betray him, and he identified him as the betrayer during his "last supper" with his disciples (Mt. 26:21-25). Jesus referred to him as "the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled" in his prayer for his disciples to God (John 17:12), so it is probably reasonable to conclude that he did not go to hell because he committed suicide.

The most challenging questions regarding Judas are these: Why wasn't he converted during his years of association with Jesus? Why didn't he stay around to seek Jesus' forgiveness even after he realized the sin of his betrayal and returned the money he had received with "remorse" to the "chief priests and the elders" before Jesus was crucified (Mt 27:3-5). Was his betrayal more unforgivable than Peter's three public denials?

Opportunities to repent and to receive God's forgiving grace as well as visions of hope in the midst of depressing circumstances of life are each gifts from God and each individual has the freedom and the responsibility to respond to God in accord with his or her own "faith". I think that this is the best perspective that we can reach on this matter.

--------------------
Bob

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Good NewsforAll
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Taking our life into our own hands is playing God. I feel as if the only way she would make it to heaven is if she had a chance to ask for forgiveness in the remaining moments of her life.

Acts 1:23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they all prayed, “O Lord, you know every heart. Show us which of these men you have chosen 25 as an apostle to replace Judas in this ministry, for he has deserted us and gone where he belongs.”

Judas' fate doesn't sound too hopeful.

--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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Michael Harrison
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I knew a guy once that insisted that this was the 'unpardonable sin'. (There is one, you know.) But I don't think that there is anyone who can answer your question but God. But let's look at this. Suicide is rejection of His council, for it is strict absence of faith. How so? I will answer with a question. Is it trusting Him with your life to do this, by taking into your own hands, your destiny, rather than trusting Him, which is what we are called to do? Literally! God is merciful and so much more, but this would be taking a chance, and also rejecting His provision in the same fellswoop. Life is about trusting Him. That however, sounds like rejection.

If you know someone like this, by all means pray. He works in strange ways. Your very prayer may make the difference.

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Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by Kandi Sunshine:
I'm a baptist Christian and I've always wondered- if someone commits suicide, do they go to Hell?
I was always told that once you're saved, you're always saved no matter what you do. Even if you don't repent, you're still saved and when you die, God judges you and your faith.

My pastor was telling my church about a girl he watched grow up while he first got into preaching, and when she was in her 20's, she committed suicide on impulse by driving a car off a bridge. He told us that he has full belief in his heart that the girl is in Heaven right now because she was saved.

What do you think?

My dear Kandi,

Questions like these, in this venue, tend to invite more debate than truth. Take heart and the Lord be your strength.

With that said: suicide does not condemn one to suffer the second death.

Aaron

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Carol Swenson
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Hi, and welcome to the Christian BBS.

I couldn't find very much information on this topic.

In the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia , it is included in a long list of crimes, and this is all it says:

No special law is found against this crime, for it is included in the prohibition against killing. Contrary to the practice and the philosophy of paganism, the act was held in deep abhorrence by the Hebrews because of the high value placed on human life. It was held inexcusable that any but the most degraded and satanic should lay hands on their own lives. Only the remorse of the damned could drive one to it, as witness Saul (1 Sam 31:4) and Judas (Mt 27:5).

I personally don't think that anyone who is devoted to doing the will of our Lord Jesus Christ, and who has put his trust in Christ, would consider killing himself.

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Kandi Sunshine
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I'm a baptist Christian and I've always wondered- if someone commits suicide, do they go to Hell?
I was always told that once you're saved, you're always saved no matter what you do. Even if you don't repent, you're still saved and when you die, God judges you and your faith.

My pastor was telling my church about a girl he watched grow up while he first got into preaching, and when she was in her 20's, she committed suicide on impulse by driving a car off a bridge. He told us that he has full belief in his heart that the girl is in Heaven right now because she was saved.

What do you think?

--------------------
"In a sick way I wanna thank you, for holding my head up late at night. While I was busy waging wars on myself, you were trying to stop the fight." -Blue October

I ask a lot of questions.

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