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Author
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Topic: The Christian And The Old Testament Law
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Eden
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posted
Hi, Michael Harrison. Are you saying that you are "trying to get out of the way of God or Jesus so that THEY can do their work in you?"
And, if so, how do you know that they ARE actually doing a work in you? I mean, here you are, Michael Harrison, in your daily life, and you are not even TRYING to do the 10 commandments because you seem to say that Jesus is GOING TO DO THEM FOR ME IN ME, so how do you notice that God or Jesus IS actually doing something in you if YOU are not "doing it", so to speak?
As for me, perhaps you are like me, I don't try but I do notice God doing things in my life. There are times when I can say, That was God.
And I think there is also the trust that I have in the character of Jesus and of God. If They say that they will work in me and "be the things of the law" that I "cannot be with my sinful trying", then also I should TRUST that the character of Jesus and of God CAN do it, so a lot of it, if not all of it, is just TRUSTING THAT GOD IS A GOOD GOD and will do BETTER in me than I could do, if I tried?
love, eden
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Keith
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posted
The following is a list of scriptures in the new testament concerning the law of God. The law of God was never meant as a means of righteousness, or salvation, but rather that it should point the sinner to both. The Lord Jesus Christ of course, being that which they point to for the salvation of the soul, and the fulfillment of righteousness within the believer. Christ did fulfill the law. Those therefore who believe in Him, and have accepted His presents in their hearts, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, also have the law fulfilled within them. This is not a means of righteousness or salvation, but rather as a result of being in Christ Jesus, in whom all things are made complete.
Rom 2:13-15 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Rom 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 7:14 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 8:3-4 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The law is spiritual. Those who walk in the spirit, have the righteousness of the law fulfilled within them. This is not in order to be saved, but rather because they have already been saved by faith in Christ.
Rom 13:8 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Love is the fulfillment of the law. You cannot fulfill a law that no longer exists.
Rom 13:10 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal 5:14-18 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Those who walk in the spirit, are not under the law. This is because, as has already been pointed out, the law is spiritual. Those who are walking in the spirit have the law fulfilled within them, instead of the works of the flesh, or carnal nature. If you are in Christ, by faith, then you have died with Him. If you have died with Him, then the penalty of the law is no longer over you, for the penalty is death, and you have already died in Christ. This having been accomplished by Christ's death on the cross, and your faith in that act, you now walk in newness of life. It is no longer you, but Christ that lives in you. This is the fulfillment of the law within the heart. Paul explains this very clearly in the next verses.
CHAPTER 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
PRAISE GOD! we have been freed from the penalty of sin, which is death, and given the power from God to live a life of righteousness, that is the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ.
James 1:25 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Matt 5:17-19 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 19:17 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matt 22:37-40 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
John 14:15 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 15:10-11 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
1 Cor 7:19 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
I Jn 2:3-4 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I Jn 3:22-24 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
I Jn 5:2-3 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
II Jn 1:5-6 5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Again I will say it, for all we are like bricks. Jesus died because no man can keep the commandments. For if we could have, then should he not have had to die. Therefore, by His death, but not only, but in combination with His life, 'we keep the commandments', by His grace. If we remember what grace is (some say it is [merely] unmerited favor), it is God's doing for us what we simply cannot succeed at by trying. This is where dying, or being under the cross comes in. Trying to 'keep' the commandments makes one to be alive, and not under the cross! At the same time, it puts them under the judgment of the law that they are trying to keep.
Jesus provides a better way. Yes it is real. You do not have to steal, kill or bear false witness, or anything else. But it is not possible by trying to keep Ten. It is possible by another means, therefore we are not to be fooled, we are to 'keep' them. Yet, we do not keep them, but allow Jesus to keep them by replacement, His life for ours (if we are truly surrendered by faith).
Here is why we are to give to Him, it all. For if we cling to what is ours, will we not covet it? Will we not envy another if theirs is greater than ours? Will we not kill (I mean in the heart) if someone tries to weasle us out of something that is ours? Will we not be defensive, protective, or possesive of what is 'ours'? But if it is His, will we not let Him preside as Lord over it??? Doth He not giveth, and doth He not taketh away. So do we trust that He is better able to care for us, thereby delivering us from envy, lust to obtain, or hold to, or even accomplish?
We let Him live when we give it over to Him. We allow Him to reign, if we surrender it to Him. If we do not, we try to reign, and our reign is failed.
"Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these." (Luk 12:27)
Who taketh care for thee - thee, or He?
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Galatians 4:28 - 29 (NLT)
28 And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac. 29 But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law , just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit.
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jimbarn
Advanced Member
Member # 7053
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posted
In the beginning God gave Adam and Eve one commandment.They broke it.
Then He gave Moses ten(there are actually some six hundred recorded) and they broke them.
Jesus gave us two.Yep.we brake them.
Why do I try and keep the commandments?
John 14:15 Jesus said "if you love me you WILL keep my commandments."
The two;Matt.22:37 "You shall love the Lord with all your heart and soul and with all your mind."
Matt.22:39 "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Jimbarn
a recovering pharisee
Ps.try this sometime;
1 Jn.4:8 says God is love.
Now read 1 Cor. 13 and put God where it says love.
To me this made a great chapter even more impressive.
Just a thought,Jimbarn
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
1 Timothy 1:5 - 11 (NLT)
5 The purpose of my instruction is that all believers would be filled with love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and genuine faith. 6 But some people have missed this whole point. They have turned away from these things and spend their time in meaningless discussions. 7 They want to be known as teachers of the law of Moses, but they don’t know what they are talking about, even though they speak so confidently. 8 We know that the law is good when used correctly. 9 For the law was not intended for people who do what is right. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious , who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders. 10 The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching 11 that comes from the glorious Good News entrusted to me by our blessed God.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Every sin comes literally, from 'trying' to do the Ten Commandments, as easily as it does from trying not to. Scripture clearly says that "The law was added to show transgression," so that we would see that good intentions, while they feel good, and seem to justify us, only fail. (Our righteousness is as dirty rags.)
But our mind blocks this out in zeal to accomplish, because obviously, we are to be 'representatives of the fulfillment' of the law, else what is our salt worth as believers in the just one? Therefore we feel that we must 'do' it. But according to scripture, the focus is on Neptune by way of this; way off course. Our command according to Jesus is to do:
"Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this 'do', and thou shalt live."
...which is how the commandments are sucessfully kept. Here is discipleship, to learn what it means to 'do' this as opposed to keeping Ten. Jesus is keeping the Ten Commandments for us. For this cause came He into the world. The real question, which cannot be over emphasized is, how do we let Him keep them for us? The answer is so simple that our mind cannot comprehend it. It is spiritual. For the Lord says, in diverting our attention, "this 'do', and thou shalt live." By saying "thou shalt live," He is saying that you will fulfill (or experience the fulfillment of) them, albeit not by trying, but by focusing on what HE said we are to 'do'.
For in that it means that we will live, when we 'do' what He said, clearly, by their not being done (the ten) the result can only be that we will not live as a green branch grafted into the vine, but as a dead one.
Green up!
~
Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this 'do', and thou shalt live.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Carol Swenson
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posted
1 Cor 11:13-16
In a general way, it is true that nature gives women longer hair and men shorter hair. The Romans, Greeks, and Jews (except for the Nazarites) pretty much followed this custom. Nowhere does the Bible tell us how long our hair should be. It simply states that there ought to be a noticeable difference between the length of the men’s hair and the women’s hair so that there be no confusion of the sexes.
The woman’s long hair is her glory, and it is given to her “instead of a covering” (literal translation). In other words, if local custom does not dictate a head-covering, her long hair can be that covering. I do not think that Paul meant for all women in every culture to wear a shawl for a head-covering; but he did expect them to use their long hair as a covering and as a symbol of their submission to God’s order.
In my ministry in different parts of the world, I have noticed that the basic principle of headship applies in every culture; but the means of demonstrating it differs from place to place. The important thing is the submission of the heart to the Lord and the public manifestation of obedience to God’s order.
(Warren Wiersbe’s “Be” Series: Old & New Testaments)
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yahsway
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Member # 3738
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posted
Nelsons Bible Dictionary -
Covering The Head- the practice among women of wearing a head covering in early Christian worship services. The apostle Paul argued that a woman participating in the services ought to have her head covered(1 Corinth 111:5-16).
According to Paul, it was a "symbol of authority" (i Cor. 11:10). The Christian woman had recieved a new freedom and spiritual authority from Christ (Gal 3:28). Thus she was able to pray and prophesy in the services.
By wearing the head covering, however, she would show that her authority came from God; she had not siezed it herself. Without the covering she might offend recent Jewish converts or others who held to the ancient tradition that women ought to always have their heads covered in public as a sigh of modesty.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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Aaron
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posted
Link sent.
Aaron
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Eden
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posted
Hi, I think we are saved by the finished work that Jesus did, but once we are in the family of God, God expects us to behave and to help out in the family of God, and every room in the house of God has the 10 commandments on the wall.
We are not saved by the 10 commandments because God knows and we should know that we are only saved by the work on the cross that Jesus did.
But in the family of God, God does expect us to try to do our best to do the 10 commandments. We're nto saved by doing our best, but it is how we should try to behave once we're in the family of God.
becauseHElives says that the Bible commands women to wear something on their head when they pray or prophesy.
If you are to receive it, receive it. If not, our salvation does not depend on that, and that's where I think sometimes becauseHElives becomes a legalist or a Judaizer Christian and he takes his eye off the fact that only the work of Jesus on the cross provides salvation, but how we behave in the family of God is also important, for us and for God, and we must do our best.
But we should not treat this "doing our best" as having anything to do with how we receive salvation or "almost imply" that "if you don't cover your hair", "you're going to miss out on salvation". That is legalism or Judaizer Christianity.
Only Jesus's work on the cross provided salvation for us; the rest is "That was a nice try!" ![[angel3]](graemlins/angel3.gif) in the family of God.
with love, eden
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Aaron
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posted
Carol,
It is true.
Bless you,
Aaron
P.S. May I send you a link? There is a teaching that really solidified this truth in my spirit.
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Carol Swenson
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The Christian and the Old Testament Law
Galatians 3:1-29
I. The Law Was Temporary
A. Scripture reveals God’s three basic provisions for dealing with men over the centuries—the patriarchal, Mosaic, and Christian dispensations (note Mark 4:28). Recall God’s promise (Genesis 3:15, 12:3; Galatians 3:16). The gospel preceded the law in the promise. Galatians 3:19 explains why the law was added.
B. The law was inadequate, but not erroneous. It was not complete because it lacked the shedding of blood in a perfect sacrifice (Hebrews 9:22). No one but Christ could keep the law perfectly (Galatians 3:10-13, 21). To the Galatians, troubled by the Judaizers, Paul made it clear that the law was like a school bus, designed to take us to the proper place (3:24).
II. The Law Was Fulfilled.
A. Jesus regarded the law as provisional (Matthew 5:17, 18). It was good (Romans 7:12, 13), so good that only Jesus could keep it perfectly (Galatians 3:10ff). In Him it was fulfilled, filled full, completed.
B. Some try to limit the “law” to the Ten Commandments, but this is not correct. Where in them is there a reference to offering turtle doves and pigeons? (See Luke 2:22ff). The Ten Commandments contain the moral law, but they are not the moral law. Moral law as such cannot be done away with, and has not been.
C. In the New Testament, the Ten Commandments (except the Sabbath) are repeated, reinforced, and reissued. We live by their moral principles, but not by the Ten Commandments as such.
III. The Gospel Is Our Permanent Authority.
A. Jesus has all authority for all time (Matthew 28:18ff). He told the story of the new wine and old wine skins (Matthew 9:17). Paul reminded his readers how they were saved (Galatians 3:1-5).
B. We need no law but love for Christ; no rule of faith and practice but His New Testament; no requirements in the church but those He has laid down. God offers salvation, not on the basis of our keeping the law perfectly, but because of what Jesus did for us (3:26-29).
Illustrations
Why Obey the Law?
Some object, “But if I am not now obligated to follow the Ten Commandments why am I not to kill?” In brief, the answer is, “Because Jesus said not to.” He went even further, warning us against the anger that causes murder (Matthew 5:21ff). The same principle is true of adultery (5:27ff). It is like a person growing up in my home state, New Mexico. Until New Mexico was admitted to the Union in 1922, it was a territory. Territorial law forbade murder. Today a New Mexican who murders is not arrested on the basis of territorial law, however, but state law. The moral principle—murder is wrong—remains the same, but the provision under which it is judged has changed. So the moral principles of the Ten Commandments are eternal, but we are under obligation to obey Jesus and His Word, not the Old Testament law as such.
Knowing Him Makes the Difference
An American soldier was dying on the battlefield in World War II. A soldier stopped to assist him. He moistened his lips and made his head rest easier. The dying man said, “My father lives in Detroit, and he is a wealthy man. I want to write him a note so he can repay you for your kindness. “ He wrote, “Dad, the bearer of this letter made my last moments easier and helped me die. Receive him and help him for Charlie’s sake.” The war ended and the soldier, in worn clothing, looked up Charlie’s father. At first the wealthy man almost refused to see him because of his appearance. “I have a note in which you may be interested,” the veteran said. He handed him a soiled piece of paper. When the father’s eyes fell on the name of his son, everything instantly changed. He threw his arms about the soldier, and put at his disposal whatever he needed. It was the son’s name that made the difference. We can stand before God only because of the intercession of His Son.
(Sermon Outlines on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians)
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