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Topic: But what is eternal life?
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Carol Swenson
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The Handbook of Bible Application
The fruit of righteousness will be peace; the effect of righteousness will be quietness and confidence forever. (Isaiah 32:17, NIV)
Eternal life is complete peace. God acts from above to change man’s condition here on earth. Only when God’s Spirit is among us can we achieve true peace and fruitfulness (Ezekiel 36:22-38; Galatians 5:22-23). The settings described here will happen in full only in the end times. But we can have God’s Spirit with us now, for he is available to all believers through Christ (John 15:26). The outpouring mentioned here happens when the worldwide kingdom of God is established for all eternity (see Joel 2:28-29).
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Carol Swenson
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Isaiah
I have to go to work now, but in a nutshell...
1. Christian souls go to Heaven to be with Christ when we die
2. At the Rapture, our bodies will be resurrected and glorified to be with the Lord in Heaven
3. Jesus will return at the end of the Tribulation, bringing His resurrected saints with Him
4. Jesus will conquer all His enemies so no unbelievers will enter the Millennium. This includes the sheep and goats judgment of Matthew 25:31-46
5. Old Testament saints and Tribulation martyrs will be resurrected after the Tribulation
6. Both Old and New Testament saints will live with Christ during the Millennium
7. At the end of the Millennium, the new Heavens, new Earth, and new Jerusalem will become our new home
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
You always seam to half quote this concept. You quote the mail dirrected TO JEWS as it pertains to the GENTILES.
With a little further study we come to Pauls use of ths concept.
Rom.11
1. [17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
2. [19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
3. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
4. [24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
This refers to the grafting in of the gentiles. It is not the only reference to burning of trees.
~
[Here we see that the enemy sows false Christians. It is understandable what follows versewise]
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
[But here, after the parable of the talents we see this concerning the unprofitable believer (not false Christian)]
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
~
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[The fact of the saved. One cannot be IN HIM if they are not born again.]
Joh 15:2 Every branch that is IN ME that beareth not fruit [IN ME! The branch must be IN Him to bear fruit]
[The result] ...he taketh away:[He taketh away] and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[The declaration of the firm reality of their relationship]
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [Ye are clean if you have been born again]
[The instruction to make sure of your salvation]
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[The result of complacency]
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: [ye are the branches does not refer to fake Christians]
He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[Further result of complacency]
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [We have seen through these passages that when Jesus says, "If a man abide not in me," it is not to be misunderstood as, "If a man is not born again." It is indicated that he is born again by being made clean, or visa versa. It is clear that they are born again in that they are instructed to 'abide in HIM' No one abides in Him who is not]
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[Ye are HIS disciples if you?] Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: [Our calling]continue ye in my love.
~
[So my concern is that some of those who are most sure, may have false confidence. It is always good to examine one's self to see if he is in the faith.]
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Isaiah
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Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
But does not the HEAVENLY Jerusalem come DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN?
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
..or do you believe people go to this new Jerusalem in heaven and when it is brought to earth they will have been living -aware -in it since they died?
Again -who would then be those "which are asleep" who awake -those dead in Christ -with which the living in Christ are caught up at the last trump -which is when Christ returns and the kingdoms of the earth become his?
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever
Do you believe that the biblical teaching of the first resurrection was replaced by the teaching that we go to heaven when we die?
Does not the bible say that the first resurrection is at the beginning of the thousand years -when they will all be resurrected at the same time -or do you take this to mean something else?
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
and what of...
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Is not this kingdom on earth -at least initially -though the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven?
Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
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Carol Swenson
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At death the souls of believers (i.e., the believers themselves, as ongoing persons) are made perfect in holiness and enter into the worshiping life of heaven (Heb. 12:22-24). In other words, they are glorified. Some, not believing this, posit a purgatorial discipline after death that is really a further stage of sanctification, progressively purifying the heart and refining the character in preparation for the vision of God. But this belief is neither scriptural nor rational, for if at Christ’s coming saints alive on earth will be perfected morally and spiritually in the moment of their bodily transformation (1 Cor. 15:51-54), it is only natural to suppose that the same is done for each believer in the moment of death, when the mortal body is left behind. Others posit unconsciousness (soul sleep) between death and resurrection, but Scripture speaks of conscious relationship, involvements, and enjoyments (Luke 16:22; 23:43; Phil. 1:23; 2 Cor. 5:8; Rev. 6:9-11; 14:13).
(Concise Theology: A Guide To Historic Christian Beliefs)
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WildB
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Phil.1
[21] For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
[23] For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
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That is all.....
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Isaiah
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Are you saying that we go to heaven when we die?
Then who are the dead in Christ that are raised at the last trump?
not sure I understand your point
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Isaiah
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At what point do people think we "go to heaven"?
In the new testament, "heaven" (G3772)is used hundreds of times, but notice that Christ tells the thief on the cross not that he will be with him in heaven, but in "paradise" G3857-Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
Rev 2:7 likens it also to Eden -saying that the tree of life is there.
There is one other instance of this word which specifically usues it to refer to "the third heaven" (Yes, there are three heavens -the atmosphere, space, and where the throne of God is now). However, it speaks of one -possibly angelic -whether in body or not -being taken for the purpose of vision -not to reside.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such a one caught up to the third heaven...
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
But was the man on the cross with Christ taken to that place that very 24 hour period? Or was Christ referring to something else?
David did not "go to heaven". David slept with his fathers. He knew that the meek would inherit the earth.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
1Ki 2:10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Did David expect to go to heaven -or to be resurrected to inherit the earth? How is it possible that he is sitting at God's right hand yet did not ascend to heaven?
What did Christ mean when he said...
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. ?
Some believe he meant up until that time -but is that what he meant?
What did those who came after Christ believe?
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Does he bring the dead in Christ with him from heaven?
Yes -but only inasmuch as their spirit returned to God -awaiting resurrection -but being asleep -and not aware. So then this resurrection to them is the next instant in their perception after death -or the same day to them.
Then what? Do they return to heaven?
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
I'm not saying it is not possible that we someday see where the throne of God now is -but it is not our reward.
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WildB
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Very Nobel of you.
2Cor.7
[9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
[10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
[11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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quote:
I am my Lords, a purchased possession.
If anyone is HIS and they sin and the Holy Spirit does not convict and convince of sin to change direction, they are none of His!
I rejoice in any and with every sinner that is truly saved and their corresponding actions of Faith show forth the Glory of Yahweh in a changed life!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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Only the guilty need feel guilty.
I am my Lords, a purchased possession.
Will you also feel sorry that He saves sinners?
Eph.1
[14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
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becauseHElives
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WildB, you can call me what ever you like, they hated Yahshua and Yahshua promised if anyone preaches the Truth they also will be hated.
Yahshua said it was a narrow way, few would find it...
Those that desire to live like the world and be a Christian are sadly mistaken....
Isaiah 35:8
And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
I feel sorry for you WildB, if you think Faith with no corresponding action is saving Faith....
I will pray for you....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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Does not a Cult use just one verse to make their religional pitch?
Repent~
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becauseHElives
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your the one half reading in this post I did not mention Paul's writings....
I quoted John... John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
the context is life is only abiding in Yahshua ....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Eternal Life is Yahshua / Jesus....
he that hath the Son hath Eternal Life...
WildB,
John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
becauseHElives,
You always seam to half quote this concept. You quote the mail dirrected TO JEWS as it pertains to the GENTILES.
With a little further study we come to Pauls use of ths concept.
Rom.11
1. [17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
2. [19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
3. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
4. [24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Lets try to rightly divide the Word.
I don't see no hell fire in Pauls use of this concept to the GENTILES~Do you?
Read Prayerfully the total...
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5051792
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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Eternal Life is Yahshua / Jesus....
he that hath the Son hath Eternal Life...
WildB,
John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 John 2:24
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Carol Swenson
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According to Scripture, the constant joy of heaven’s life for the redeemed will stem from
(a) their vision of God in the face of Jesus Christ (Rev. 22:4)
(b) their ongoing experience of Christ’s love as he ministers to them (Rev. 7:17)
(c) their fellowship with loved ones and the whole body of the redeemed
(d) the continued growth, maturing, learning, enrichment of abilities, and enlargement of powers that God has in store for them.
The redeemed desire all these things, and without them their happiness could not be complete. But in heaven there will be no unfulfilled desires.
There will be different degrees of blessedness and reward in heaven. All will be blessed up to the limit of what they can receive, but capacities will vary just as they do in this world. As for rewards (an area in which present irresponsibility can bring permanent future loss: 1 Cor. 3:10-15), two points must be grasped. The first is that when God rewards our works he is crowning his own gifts, for it was only by grace that those works were done. The second is that essence of the reward in each case will be more of what the Christian desires most, namely, a deepening of his or her love-relationship with the Savior, which is the reality to which all the biblical imagery of honorific crowns and robes and feasts is pointing. The reward is parallel to the reward of courtship, which is the enriching of the love-relationship itself through marriage.
(Concise Theology: A Guide To Historic Christian Beliefs)
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Carol Swenson
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Eternal life will be radically different from this life. Some people are repulsed by the idea of eternal life because their lives are miserable. But eternal life is not an extension of a person’s miserable, mortal life; eternal life is God’s life embodied in Christ given to all believers now as a guarantee that they will live forever. In eternal life there is no death, sickness, enemy, evil, or sin. When we don’t know Christ, we make choices as though this life is all we have. In reality, this life is just the introduction to eternity. Receive this new life by faith and begin to evaluate all that happens from an eternal perspective.
Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. (2 Corinthians 5:1, NIV)
Eternal life begins in this life. Paul contrasts our earthly bodies (“earthly tent”) and our future resurrection bodies (“building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands”). Paul clearly states that our present bodies make us groan, but when we die we will not be spirits without bodies (“be unclothed”). We will have new bodies that will be perfect for our everlasting life.
Paul wrote as he did because the church at Corinth was in the heart of Greek culture, and many believers had difficulty with the concept of bodily resurrection. Greeks did not believe in a bodily resurrection. Most held that the real person was the soul, imprisoned in a physical body and that the afterlife was something that happened only to the soul. They believed that at death the soul is released—there is no immortality for the body, and the soul enters an eternal state. But the Bible teaches that the body and soul are inseparable.
The Holy Spirit within us is our guarantee that God will give us everlasting bodies at the resurrection (2 Corinthians 1:22). We have eternity in us now! This truth should give us great courage and patience to endure anything we might experience.
(The Handbook of Bible Application)
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Eden
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In the Old Testament, that "everlasting" or "eternal" life is always the Hebrew word "olam", and in the New Testament that "everlasting" or "eternal" life is always the word "aionos". And the Greek LXX Old Testament always has "aionos" where the Hebrew Old Testament had "olam".
In brief, the word "olam" and the word "aionos" means "age-lasting", and what they MEAN is determined by the noun that FOLLOWS "olam" and/or "aionos".
For instance, the "aionos" fire or "everlasting" fire that burned Sodom and Gomorrah was an "age-lasting" fire, meaning, "lasting for the duration of the fire".
But when "olam" or "aionos" are followed by a word that has an eternal nature to it, like God or like God's life, then the word "olam" and/or "aionos" ALSO MEAN EVERLASTING because the LIFE of God IS divine or truly everlasting.
So when we receive "eternal life" in the New Testament, the word "life" is the Greek word "zoe", and "zoe" means "divine life", so that when we get "eternal zoe" life the word "olam" and "aionos" truly mean "everlasting" because "divine zoe" life is everlasting.
love, eden
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Isaiah
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In my wondering about wonderful things I have often wondered what one might actually DO for all eternity...
The answer?
CREATE!
After all the time we once spent warring and wrecking things is freed up -and we no longer argue, disagree or are given to vain imagination, we will be free to use the wonderful creative power we were given to make the universe (perhaps beyond if possible) a beautiful -inhabited -place.
We have accomplished some amazing things even with our inefficiencies and limited ability to create -God had to confuse our speech at babel to slow us down, lest anything we imagined be possible (unfortunately including self-destruction)!
Imagine when we are given a body and power similar to that which the glorified CHRIST possesses -and a God-like mind...
Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
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WildB
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God says…
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
The Gospel of John
Chapter 14, Verse 6
"He who believes in Me has everlasting life."
The Gospel of John
Chapter 6, Verse 47
The life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us.
The First Letter of John
Chapter 1, Verse 2
That means…
In one sense, eternal life is what its name suggests: unending life. After all, if eternal life could be lost, then it is misnamed, because it wouldn’t really be eternal. All who have eternal life will live forever in God’s kingdom. No one who has come to faith in Christ will ever go to hell. Once you believe in Christ, your eternal destiny in God’s kingdom is guaranteed.
In another sense, eternal life is not merely unending life. It is the life of God. Indeed, John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. Eternal life is God’s kind of life. It is life that comes from God. Thus a person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.
It is obvious from what we have just said that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, "He who believes in Me has [present tense] everlasting life." He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life--from that very first moment of faith. Thus a brand-new believer has God’s life, which is unending and full of potential.
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That is all.....
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