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Topic: Jesus and Judging
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by KnowHim:
You are looking more and more like this because you think it is OK to rob and distroy God's people.
They only want to think it is OK because they are getting rich.
Stop it.
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Stop what? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) You are away off track KnowHim. I am not talking at all about "they are getting rich." I am even talking about monitoring myself in my Christian walk. This thread is about Jesus and Judging. Please show one post where I talk about 'them'
I am just wondering how many people who call themselves Christians can honestly say that they are not having dissention in their own their personal lives. What are they like with their husband/wife or kids? I would like to be a fly on the wall. 
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Likewise we can judge people according to what they say about what is written, whether it lines up with what is written, or not.
But when it comes to behavior it gets dicier since we ourselves are all sinners:
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
If I said to someone "It is written" I wouldn't use them a judgment words, but rather as teaching words. I would leave it to God to judge whether they are doing right or wrong. If I am having a bad day myself, how can I hypocritically look down on others.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Eden
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WWJD (What Would Jesus Do), Jesus in His day did keep track of what was written in the Word (the Old Testament) and He chided His audience for substituting tradition for what was written in the Word:
Matthew 15:3
But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
And:
Matthew 21:16
And they said to Him, Do you hear what these are saying? And Jesus said to them, Yes, have you never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings you have perfected praise?
And there are numerous places where either Jesus or the apostles said, "For it is written...":
Acts 15:15
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Jesus did keep track of what was written and of people either distorting or omitting and reminding them of what was written.
Likewise we can judge people according to what they say about what is written, whether it lines up with what is written, or not.
But when it comes to behavior it gets dicier since we ourselves are all sinners:
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
Then we are safer to just say:
Luke 18:13
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
And not to be like the pharisee who seems to be saying a righteous thing, but he is not because he has not seen his own filthiness:
Luke 18
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank You [sounds beautiful], that I am not as other men are [sounds beautiful], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice a week[sounds beautiful], and I give tithes of all that I possess [sounds beautiful].
But it is all wrong.
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
So we can judge what is being written by it is written, but judging behavior gets a lot dicier, lest we start to talk like that Pharisee, "I thank You, God, that I am not like other men".
Howbeit, I do think that (most of the time) it is not that hard to stay within the bounds of the 10 commandments. "Don't lie", "Don't steal", and "Don't kill".
with love,
eden
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Good NewsforAll
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WWJD
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
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[22] And he said, All is well.
My master hath sent me, saying, Behold, even now there be come to me from mount Ephraim two young men of the sons of the prophets: give them, I pray thee, a talent of silver, and two changes of garments.
[23] And Naaman said, Be content, take two talents. And he urged him, and bound two talents of silver in two bags, with two changes of garments, and laid them upon two of his servants; and they bare them before him.
[24] And when he came to the tower, he took them from their hand, and bestowed them in the house: and he let the men go, and they departed.
[25] But he went in, and stood before his master. And Elisha said unto him, Whence comest thou, Gehazi? And he said, Thy servant went no whither.
[26] And he said unto him, Went not mine heart with thee, when the man turned again from his chariot to meet thee? Is it a time to receive money, and to receive garments, and oliveyards, and vineyards, and sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and maidservants?
[27] The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow.
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That is all.....
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Good NewsforAll
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Luke 22;44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
46And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. 47And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
48But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss? 49When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
50And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
51And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
Once again Jesus showed his compassion.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
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posted
Wow ~.
Read your Bible more.
2Kgs.5
[21] So Gehazi followed after Naaman. And when Naaman saw him running after him, he lighted down from the chariot to meet him, and said, Is all well?
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That is all.....
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Good NewsforAll
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I am not allowed to talk about the WOF'ers, yet people keep luring me into the topic. I's bordering on harrassment. I believe their concepts are supposed to be in Exposing False Teaching.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Please, let us get our eyes off of the WOF'ers and onto Jesus. That is what this thread is about.
Seems you are the one wrapped up in it and are blinded by their lies.
If you don't keep posting in the thread defending the wolves that are ripping up God's people in the name of Jesus maybe the thread will die down.
Yes I pray you and anyone who has their eyes on the WOF will see it is not from Jesus and then turn their gaze to Jesus who really loves you and is not out begging for your money, but for you to come to know Him. May the WOF people come to look at Jesus for who He is and not for what they can get from Him.
But as far as saying it is OK to deceive God's people NO I will not let it go. MOST all TV WOF preachers are out to steal from God's people and spend the money on themselves to live lavishly on money people give thinking it is going to Godly work. But it is not, it is being spend on lavish living for the wolves who are lying to God's people to get their money.
Shame on them and anyone who is promoting their false gospel.
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Good NewsforAll
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Please, let us get our eyes off of the WOF'ers and onto Jesus. That is what this thread is about.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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yahsway
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Yes, Satan is our enemy but one must not forget that Satan uses people.
Jesus rebuked Peter and did say "get behind me Satan."
Proverbs 27:5 says
Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed.
verse 26 Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
this means that Tough love is better than flattering hypocisy.
There is a time to speak up against what some of these WOF preacher/teachers are saying that clearly does not line up with scripture.
Its out of love for them and the body that people do speak up against their teachings that are not scriptural.
If you dont stand for something you fall for anything.
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Good NewsforAll
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Are we capable of having the same type of anger as Jesus had? He was angry because his Father's house had been turned into a marketplace. He was angry at the sin itself and the disrespect towards God.
Michael Harrison quoted Eph 4:26 on another thread -
Eph.4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
This means that we are not supposed to harbour or dwell on the sin, and allow the devil to stir up pride and revenge against the other person, which may end up in bitter words and actions. The anger should be towards the devil, the sin and the injustice, not the person. Satan is our real enemy.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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becauseHElives
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posted
there is that side to Yahshua Good NewsforAll but there is also the side of Yahshua that is very zealous over not fleecing the flock of Yahweh ...
Yahshua cleanses the Temple
we must never loose sight of either aspect of who Yahshua is....
Yahshua is love, mercy, long suffering, gentle, kind and forgiving beyond a humans understanding...
but He is also a righteous judge
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Good NewsforAll
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I would like to get back to focus on the compassion of Jesus.
I love the story of Zacchaeus in Luke 19. He was too short to see Jesus over the crowds so he climbed up into a tree. Seeing him in the tree Jesus said "Quick, come down! I must be a guest in your home today.”
6 Zacchaeus quickly climbed down and took Jesus to his house in great excitement and joy. 7 But the people were displeased. “He has gone to be the guest of a notorious sinner,” they grumbled.
8 Meanwhile, Zacchaeus stood before the Lord and said, “I will give half my wealth to the poor, Lord, and if I have cheated people on their taxes, I will give them back four times as much!”
9 Jesus responded, “Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham."
Jesus is no respecter of persons.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
People believe what they want to believe, no matter what you try to tell them. I have made a comment on Paula White's thread on how her words were twisted, but because of the reputation she has gained with many, my comments won't be taken seriously.
On another message board people tried to say that a certain minister didn't believe in the Trinity, and I showed them in black and white that he believed in the trinity and they twisted his words and still didn't believe me.
The fact of the matter is Paula White is a prosperity gospel preacher, therefore she is teaching a false gospel and I have seen her publicly doing it on TV were she is deceiving many.
I don't know who the other person is you are refering to.
But I read the below in my devotions this morning:
Luke 16:13-15
“No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”
The Pharisees, who dearly loved their money, heard all this and scoffed at him. Then he said to them, “You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God.
So to me it is saying that the Pharisees dearly love their money. Yes they are the ones that wanted Jesus dead and one of the reasons was they wanted their money.
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becauseHElives
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I believe the scriptures are divinely inspired by the Spirit of Yahweh, so I therefore believe in matters of Church discipline there are times we must judge.
loving Yahweh commands believers to expose error. There is only one right doctrine, and that is the doctrine of the apostles as we have it in the New Testament Scriptures, and every doctrine that is contrary to that is false and is to be exposed. The Lord's apostles did this repeatedly. The loving apostle Paul, for example, in his epistles to the preacher Timothy, warned about false teachers and compromises BY NAME 10 different times (1 Tim. 1:20; 2 Tim. 1:15; 2:17; 3:8; 4:12, 14). He said:
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some" (2 Tim. 2:15-18).
Notice how the loving apostle Paul instructed Timothy, another loving and faithful preacher of that day. He told him to study the Word of God that he might know sound doctrine, but he did not stop there. Timothy was not merely to know the truth for himself and be content with that; he was not merely to be "positive" for the truth; he was to go beyond that to expose and warn about those who taught false things. To illustrate how Timothy was to deal with error, the loving Paul used the specific example of two preachers of his day, Hymenaeus and Philetus. They had erred from the truth in spiritualizing a prophetic event and Paul said they were dangerous. He used very strong language to condemn them.
We must understand that these two men were professing Christians of that day, and yet Paul did not hesitate to expose and warn of them. Can you imagine how Hymenaeus and Philetus felt about Paul's warning? Surely they were angry with him for saying that their doctrine was not sound. "Who does that Paul think he is, anyway!" And think of how their followers must have felt toward Paul. Doubtless they attacked Paul as unloving and mean-spirited and as puffed up in his own sense of importance. Doubtless, Hymenaeus and Philetus and their followers treated the Pauls and Timothys and Tituses of that day precisely as the ecumenists today treat fundamentalists who are striving against error.
What if Timothy himself had replied to Paul: "Paul, I don't think I will follow that pattern. It doesn't seem to be very loving to run around exposing other believers as false. You are too harsh, Paul. You need to live and let live. Are we not all the body of Christ? Don't you love Hymenaeus and Philetus? Don't they love Jesus, too? Why are you so mean-spirited and narrow-minded? Leave judgment to the Lord. Your business is simply to love, and love doesn't judge"? Would Timothy have thereby been accepted in his ministry? Would Yahweh have rewarded him for taking such a position?
In fact, Paul was not being unloving when he exposed Hymenaeus and Philetus as false teachers. He was being very loving. In so doing, Paul revealed his love for Jesus, who is the Truth; and he revealed his love for the church, which is the pillar and ground of the truth; and he revealed his love for the Lord's sheep, because he was willing to protect them from dangerous wolves. Furthermore, he thereby revealed his love for Hymenaeus and Philetus themselves, because if we love someone we will speak plainly about things that will destroy them, and probably nothing is more destructive than false teaching.
True Christian love exposes error and warns of its danger.
LOVE PREACHES HOLY LIVING AND DISCIPLINES SIN
Love also demands holy living and disciplines sin. In almost every epistle to the churches, we see that the apostles demanded strict holy living and reproved those who were sinning. When the loving apostle Paul wrote to the preacher Titus to instruct him in how to conduct his ministry, he said:
"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee" (Titus 2:11-15).
Notice what Titus, in Christian love, was instructed to do. He was told that the true grace of God saves men freely through faith in the sacrifice of Christ (Eph. 2:8-9), but that same grace also teaches believers to live godly, separated lives. True grace does not teach believers that they can live as they please. That is not grace but license. It is a misuse of grace. It is the old error of antinomianism, which taught that believers, because they are forgiven, are free to live pretty much howsoever they will. Paul rebuked that wicked error and taught Titus that he was to preach strict holy living. He was to SPEAK, AND EXHORT, AND REBUKE WITH ALL AUTHORITY." That sounds like strong, fundamentalist preaching to me!
What if Titus had said to Paul, "Paul, I don't want to be so harsh-sounding in my preaching. I don't think it is loving to be so judgmental about how the Lord's people live. I think I will tone down the preaching so it sounds more loving"? Would Titus have thereby been accepted in his ministry? Would God have rewarded him for taking such a position?
Furthermore, when believers ignore this strong preaching on holy living and they openly sin, they are to be disciplined. The church at Corinth was instructed in this fashion. There was a believer in Corinth who was living in fornication; and instead of judging him the church was "puffed up." This carnal church had the philosophy of tolerance toward sin and error, and they were proud of their spirit of non-judgmentalism! The loving apostle Paul twice rebuked them for this great error (1 Cor. 5:1-6; 2 Cor. 11:1-4). He instructed them to repent of their broadmindedness and to judge sin and to judge error.
What if the church at Corinth had replied to Paul, "We don't accept what you are saying. Who are we to judge others? Are we not sinners ourselves? Do we not have our own problems to take care of? We say that judgment should be left up to God, and for ourselves we will just love and be loved." Would the church at Corinth have thereby been accepted? Would God have rewarded them for such a thing?
Of course not. True Christian love preaches holy living and it rebukes and disciplines sin. It is not the love of God that causes professing saints to overlook sin and error; it is carnality and a spirit of disobedience to God's Word.
To preach strongly against sin is to love people, because sin defiles and destroys. To rebuke sin is to love the church of God, because sin defiles His church. Paul warned the church at Corinth that they must deal with sin because, "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump" (1 Cor. 5:6). To preach boldly and plainly against sin is also to love God, because sin is against the holy God and because God has commanded us to rebuke it.
True Christian love preaches strict holy living and disciplines sin.
LOVE CONTENDS FOR THE FAITH
Furthermore, it is a very loving thing to contend for the faith. The loving Jude demanded this:
"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort YOU THAT YE SHOULD EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH WHICH WAS ONCE DELIVERED UNTO THE SAINTS" (Jude 3).
Notice how this responsibility is described. The loving Holy Spirit uses the Greek word epagonizomai. It is a very strong word and is well translated in our Authorized Version by the English words "earnestly contend." It means to strive for, to fight for, to defend against, but also to do that in a vigorous, earnest manner.
And this is not a responsibility that is given only to preachers. Jude is addressing believers in general. It is every Christian's duty to engage in this battle.
And notice more carefully exactly what we are to fight for -- "the faith once delivered to the saints." This tells us that the Christian faith was completed in the days of the apostles. It was not left for some Catholic church council hundreds of years later to decide what the faith was. The Christian faith was delivered to the apostles by the Holy Spirit, and it was completed in their day. That "faith once delivered" is the one absolute and complete standard by which doctrine and practice is to be judged. From that day until the Lord returns, the job of every true believer is to fight to defend that one true faith against every false doctrine. Timothy was instructed not to allow "ANY other doctrine" (1 Timothy 1:3). That is a very, very narrow view of doctrinal purity. If a preacher seeks to obey Paul's command in 1 Timothy 1:3 and Jude 3, he will not be able to hold hands with those who have a different doctrine. How could he? His task is to hold the one true faith and to earnestly contend against every false thing! It is absolutely impossible to be ecumenical in any sense while seeking to obey 1 Timothy 1:3 and Jude 3 and other such obligations of the Scriptures.
And in fact, it is a very loving thing to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, because the truth sets men free, while error corrupts and destroys. Thus, those who earnestly contend for the faith love men and want to see them walk in the truth; and they love God and want to be faithful to His Word; and they love the Lord's church and want to see it shine in its purity; and they love the Holy Spirit, who is "the Spirit of TRUTH"; and they love the truth itself. The faithful soldier loves those for whom and that for which he fights.
True Christian love earnestly contends for the faith.
LOVE SEPARATES FROM FALSE AND SINFUL THINGS
Finally, true Christian love not only preaches holy living and rebukes and disciplines sin and exposes error and earnestly contends for the faith, but true Christian love goes even further and separates from false and sinful things.
The loving Paul taught the believers at Ephesus that it was not enough for them to live pure moral lives for themselves; they were to separate from and even rebuke sinful things.
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, BUT RATHER REPROVE THEM" (Ephesians 5:11).
Notice the command that the loving Holy Spirit gives through the loving preacher Paul. Believers are not to have fellowship with evil things, and not only that, but they are to reprove evil things. This is what has gotten the saints into trouble through the ages. Ordinarily, the world doesn't mind if a Christian lives a holy life to himself and his family, as long as he "minds his own business" and doesn't rebuke others for how they live. But as soon as the Christian starts telling other people how they are to live and rebuking sin in them, he finds himself in "hot water." John the Baptist is an example. He did not preach against sin merely in generalities. He was very plain. And when he rebuked Herod for taking his brother's wife contrary to the law of God, he made an implacable enemy of Herod's new wife and her animosity toward him resulted in his death (Matt. 14:1-12).
Furthermore, Christians are not only to separate from and rebuke sinful things but also to separate from false doctrine and those who teach it. The following is only one of many commandments to this end. Notice what the loving apostle Paul taught the believers at Rome:
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).
There are two obligations here. First, the loving brethren are to mark those who teach false things, which means they are to plainly identify them as to who they are; and secondly, they are to avoid those who teach false things. "Avoid" is a term referring to separation.
And how are we to know what is false? Ecumenists today argue that it is not reasonable to think that a believer can know the truth in such a fashion that he can say that others are wrong. That is not what the Bible teaches, though. The standard for truth is the teaching of the apostles, and that which is contrary to their teaching is false. It is that simple. Where had the believers at Rome learned their doctrine? From the Apostle Paul. Thus, he is instructing them that if they find doctrine that is different from that which he had taught them, they were to reject it and avoid it. The child of God is commanded to study the Word of God and to rightly divide it (2 Tim. 2:15) and then to judge everything by that standard. If is it not possible to know the rightly divide the Scriptures, why does God command us to do it?
And, in fact, it is a very loving thing to mark and avoid false teachers. To do so is to love those who are in danger of being deceived by the false teachers. To pretend that the false teachers are not teaching error and to associate with them as if nothing were wrong is an unloving act toward those who will be deceived by their error. To separate from those who are teaching error is also an act of love toward the sound churches, because in marking and avoiding those who err, we protect the churches from their corrupting ministries.
True Christian love separates from false and sinful things.
BUT I KNOW A TRULY UNLOVING FUNDAMENTALIST
Do I hear someone protest, "What you say is true and there is no doubt that we have an obligation to do these things, but I know some fundamentalists who are genuinely unloving and truly mean-spirited."
My reply is that I know that there are some who claim to be fighting for the Lord but doubtless are only fighting for themselves and who in so doing bring reproach to the cause of Christ. It is always wrong to be mean-spirited and carnal. If I am fighting for the truth in an ungodly manner, that is wrong; and the soldier must continually guard his spirit, because the flesh is weak and it is easy to fall into the trap of fighting the Lord's battles in the old ugly flesh.
But such failures are personal problems and are not something that reflects on the ministry of fighting for the faith in general. It is unwise to reject biblical fundamentalism as defined as obedience to the scriptural obligations we have cited in this article, because of the shortcomings of certain fundamentalists.
And I can show you many fundamentalists, myself including, who have grown in spiritual grace as they have progressed in their Christian sanctification, and who are capable of expressing more graciousness in their dealings after 30 years in the ministry than they could after five!
Further, I can show you just as many unloving and carnal new evangelicals as you can show me unloving and carnal fundamentalists. That is a serious problem, but it is a personal problem.
In conclusion, judging and separating from sin and error is not contrary to Christian love. True Christian love is not a mushy tolerance of things that are wrong. Such an idea is a false definition of Christian love.
The loving apostle John taught us the true definition of love:
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous" (1 John 5:3).
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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How can a sinner judge another sinner? Or, how can even a saved sinner judge another saved sinner? I tend to think that our righteousness is so filthy that every time we try to judge another, our filthy self gets in the way with unnecessary harshness or condemnation.
I find it hard to do more than just say about myself, "Lord have mercy on me a sinner". How then can this sinner judge another sinner, for all have fallen short of the glory of God.
But when it comes to Biblical doctrine or what I know about the Word of God, I think we can judge whether what someones says and teaches lines up with the Word of God.
And behavior-wise, perhaps we can judge whether someone is at least trying to do the 10 commandments. But even that gets sticky because I'm only trying to do the 10 commandments myself.
Because God condemned the behavior of the Pharisee:
Luke 18:11
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank You that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
But the publican could only say, "Lord have mercy on me a sinner", and Jesus said the publican had it right. So how then can I judge another if all I can say, "Lord have mercy on me a sinner" and I cannot say, "God, I thank You that I am not like other men?"
with love, eden
"and do I have a beam in my eye?"
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
GodNewsforAll. I think allowing the guilty to continue, and wrongly accusing the innocent are both problems.
If we are like Paul and don't even trust our own judgment at times, maybe we should just leave the subject alone. Could be doing more harm than good.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Bloodbought
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
GodNewsforAll. I think allowing the guilty to continue, and wrongly accusing the innocent are both problems.
The biggest problem is that those who are guilty to some are innocent to others, which is unscriptural.
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
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Carol Swenson
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GodNewsforAll. I think allowing the guilty to continue, and wrongly accusing the innocent are both problems.
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Good NewsforAll
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Originally posted by KnowHim:
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Some downright lies have been printed about these preachers. Enough said - God will be the final judge.
Again, where are these lies?
All I am commenting on is what I have actually seen them do.
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People believe what they want to believe, no matter what you try to tell them. I have made a comment on Paula White's thread on how her words were twisted, but because of the reputation she has gained with many, my comments won't be taken seriously.
On another message board people tried to say that a certain minister didn't believe in the Trinity, and I showed them in black and white that he believed in the trinity and they twisted his words and still didn't believe me.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Good NewsforAll
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Some downright lies have been printed about these preachers. Enough said - God will be the final judge.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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KnowHim
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Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
What really disturbs me is that the internet is is indundated with people who think that they have a right to judge, and it makes you wonder about their motives and their true hearts.
If you really have a true heart towards Jesus Christ and his flock you will do what ever you can to expose false gospel preachers and wolves that come among the sheep. If you don't you surely do not love God's people. To let people in leadership who influence and go around teaching lies and stealing from people is just plain wrong and acting like you are blind to it is not being Godly it just shows you don't really care about or love God's people.
Trying to act like you are more holy then others is what the passage you are refering to is about. It is not about exposing wolves. I am sure glad our shephard Jesus don't leave us to the wolves and run. Thank you Jesus and help us to know you better and love others the way you do. It cost Jesus His life for doing what is right and not trying to be a man pleaser.
Please wake up and stop it with the modern day gospel telling everyone that everything is OK. Everything is not OK. God's wrath is the opposite of His love and the people that are trying to water it down will answer on judgement day.
If you love people warn them of the wrath to come and stop it with the everything is OK.
By the way when you are on TV and broadcasting around the world it is no longer a private matter.
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Good NewsforAll
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What really disturbs me is that the internet is is inundated with people who think that they have a right to judge, and it makes you wonder about their motives and their true hearts.
As Carol says the scriptures say that we have trust God to be the final judge. Paul said in 1 Cor. 4:3 As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. 4 My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide. 5 So don’t make judgments about anyone ahead of time—before the Lord returns. For he will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives. Then God will give to each one whatever is due.
Do we really trust Jesus to be the final judge and are we truthfully living a blameless and good behaviour life as David mentioned? We all are ambassadors for Jesus Christ.
The following is a good example in the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector. On the surface the self-righteous Pharisee was showing blameless and good behaviour, but Jesus saw things differently. At the outset how would the tax collector fare in to-day's rule book of righteous judgment???? Jesus sees things differently than we do.
Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector
Luke 18: 9 Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else: 10 “Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else. For I don’t cheat, I don’t sin, and I don’t commit adultery. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! 12 I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ 14 I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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KnowHim
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When the Church allows compromised Christian leaders to explain away sin, compromise truth, and sin with impunity, we exchange truth for lies. We become no better than idolaters, people whose credulous adoration of compromised leaders fulfill what Paul calls exchanging "the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man . . . exchang[ing] the truth of God for a lie" (Rom. 1:22, 25). Unfortunately, although most Christians sincerely want truth and want to follow biblical ethics, we too often listen to such lies from our leadership and instead of denouncing sin and demanding accountability, we parrot excuses like those given here and allow compromised leaders to continue in leadership.
The Bible clearly states that Christian leaders should be accountable both to the Word of God and also to God's people, whom the leader serves. Among the requirements Paul describes for a Christian leader are that he be "blameless," and "of good behavior" (1 Tim. 3:2). A Christian leader must "have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil" (1 Tim. 3:7). This does not mean that the Christian leader is simply good at covering up his sin. Christian leaders must display integrity and honesty -- they must prove themselves worthy of Christians' trust.
One would think that our outspoken faithfulness to truth telling would extend to telling the truth about sin within the Church. And yet at this point many Christians shrink from truth telling, instead hiding behind empty platitudes such as "don't judge;" "forgive and forget;" "don't shoot your own wounded;" "look at all the people who came to the Lord through this ministry;" etc. Sadly, we have unbiblically acted as though telling the truth contradicts biblical concern for a sinning Christian leader.
Christians who cry out, "It's wrong to judge," are ignoring the context of the passage (Matt. 7:1-2), which does not forbid judging, but instead insists on judgment according to God's word. In addition, a judgmental criticism of judgement is self-refuting. If it is wrong for a Christian to publicly criticize a Christian leader whose testimony is false or who is immoral, then isn't the critic also wrong for publicly criticizing the Christian? Paul points out this contradiction among some Jews, saying, "You who say, 'Do not commit adultery,' do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?" (Rom. 2:22). One who speaks English to utter the sentence "I can't utter a word in English" has refuted himself. Aren't those who accuse Christian investigative journalism of being the "Christian Gestapo" themselves acting Gestopo-ish?
Assuming that integrity and accountability exclude compassion unfairly brands truth telling as "shooting" and ignores that "the wounded" have been wounded by their own sin.
Christians who excuse false testimonies and immorality by pointing to the "fruits" of a ministry deny Paul's forceful argument in Romans 3:8 that to do evil that good may come is slanderous and contrary to biblical ethics.
To equate forgiveness with absolution from personal responsibility is to cheapen biblical forgiveness and to deny biblical justice.
From:
http://answers.org/issues/exposing_sin.html
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Eden
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When it comes to judging, I often think that Jesus was the only Person CLEAN ENOUGH enough to be able to judge properly and cleanly. I'm afraid that more often than not, some of our own uncleanliness is mixed in with our judging of others.
I often think that Jesus was and is the only One clean enough to judge properly.
But the publican only dared say, "Lord, have mercy on me a sinner". Now, that I can judge properly.
Luke 6:42
Either how can you say to your brother, Brother, let me pull out the splinter that is in your eye, when you yourself do not see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, cast out first the beam from your own eye, and then you shall see clearly enough to pull the splinter out that is in your brother's eye.
But the question is:
what does the beam represent?
how is the beam removed from my eye?
how do I know that my beam has been removed?
So that I would be qualified to remove splinters. ![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif)
with love, eden
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Carol Swenson
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Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. (Matthew 7:1-2, NIV)
Some types of judgment are necessary and appropriate. Jesus’ statement, “Do not judge,” is against the kind of hypocritical, judgmental attitude that tears others down in order to build oneself up. It is not a blanket statement against all critical thinking, but a call to be discerning rather than negative. Jesus said to expose false teachers (Matthew 7:15-23), and Paul taught that we should exercise church discipline (1 Corinthians 5:1-2) and trust God to be the final Judge (1 Corinthians 4:3-5).
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by KnowHim:
With so many TV Preachers out to make a profit it is not hard to tell who is preaching a false gospel for gain.
Sticking your head in the sand it not what we are to to.
That is what is wrong with the religious machine today. Everything is OK just do it.
Well everything is NOT OK so stop it.
Wake up!
I have already watched the video. Great video, but I have seen too much of the other side of the coin. When I see total lies and misquotes printed on certain websites, it just makes me want to weep.
This thread is about Jesus and I want to give him credit for his great compassion and unconditional love.
Again -
Jesus was constantly being judged by the Pharisees. There is also a very strong Pharisee spirit prevalent today. Serious discernment is gravely lacking. Too many go by the words of others
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
When someone appears to be on the Lord’s side but in reality they are of their father the devil, coming with sin rapped and cloaked in something that looks good, we need to make a righteous judgment and say why sin are you coming to me tempting me and pretending to be something you are not.
Jesus was constantly being judged by the Pharisees. There is also a very strong Pharisee spirit prevalent today. Serious discernment is gravely lacking. Too many go by the words of others.
With so many TV Preachers out to make a profit it is not hard to tell who is preaching a false gospel for gain.
Sticking your head in the sand it not what we are to to.
That is what is wrong with the religious machine today. Everything is OK just do it.
Well everything is NOT OK so stop it.
Wake up!
Watch Blind Guides click below:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZBz-T8rxzmo
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are FEW who find it. - Matthew 7:14 (NKJV)
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Michael Harrison
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Rom 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
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Good NewsforAll
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Jesus always cautioned his followers about judging with a hypocritical heart. Look at what he said to the ones accusing the woman caught in adultery in John 8.."He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. "
"Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? " 11She said, "No man, Lord." And Jesus said unto her, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
The Jews didn't associate with the Samaritans, and they even accused Jesus of having a devil. He didn't judge them, but questioned why they dishonoured him in John 8.
By to-day's standards if there were a deed done by a good Samaritan we would warn others to be wary of his doctrine and following a wolf in sheep's clothing. Not Jesus, He didn't judge him once.. Speaking about the priest, the Levite, and the Samaritan. Jesus said.
Luke 10:36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
Speaking to the woman from Samaria who came to draw water from the well, and in response to her surprise that he would even talk to her and ask her for a drink,, he didn't remind her of her inerrant doctrine, his response was -
John 4:10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water
Th Canaanites were always considered to be the enemy. They were in the same class as the Hittites, Amorites and Jebusites and were often defeated in battle in the OT.
When the Canaanite worman begged Jesus to come and heal her daughter from being vexed with a devil, Jesus didn't preach to her about her false doctrine. After worshipping him, Matthew 15:28 says " Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."
Jesus would plant some seed and leave the rest to God, something Christians often forget. We think we have to get on a soapbox and drill the wrongdoings of others into our listeners..
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
When someone appears to be on the Lord’s side but in reality they are of their father the devil, coming with sin rapped and cloaked in something that looks good, we need to make a righteous judgment and say why sin are you coming to me tempting me and pretending to be something you are not.
Jesus was constantly being judged by the Pharisees. There is also a very strong Pharisee spirit prevalent today. Serious discernment is gravely lacking. Too many go by the words of others.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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yahsway
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I believe we are to judge what pastors/teachers are preaching is true or not. In other words, what is preached or taught can be judged to see if it lines up with scripture.
Judgement means discernment or seperation between good and evil.
Gods role as as judge is reflected in the leadership functions of political officals, who uphold order in society and execute judgement on evildoers(Romans 13:1-7)
The rulers of Israel bore special responsibility in this respect (Duet. 16:18-19)as do the Leaders of the church today(Matt 18:17-18).
Believers also have a Responsibility to Judge matters of wrongdoing among themselves (Matt 18:15)but it should always be done fairly and with compassion.
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Bloodbought
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When making judgments we also need to keep in mind that the enemy will always dress sin in a pretty coat so that the unsuspecting wont recognise it and judge it as sin, but instead make a wrong judgment and find themselves in the same camp with those who promote sin. Sin will never show up as the ghastly horrible thing that it is and therefore we need discernment to be able to recognise the devices and schemes of the enemy. When someone appears to be on the Lord’s side but in reality they are of their father the devil, coming with sin rapped and cloaked in something that looks good, we need to make a righteous judgment and say why sin are you coming to me tempting me and pretending to be something you are not.
The enemy has so many actors pretending to be one thing when in reality they are something that is the opposite and they are leading many astray who are not equipped to judge between good and evil. We need to be careful not to fall into the trap of the enemy by being deluded by his actors, because what is lurking beneath the disguise destroys lives and causes a departure from Jehovah God.
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Good NewsforAll
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Bloodbought, to judge righteously we must be sure we follow the strictest moral code. Another term we could use is to judge favorably. Often if we hear something negative about another person, right away we may quick to accuse them of being wrong and think the worst about them. It is usually done with a cynical and critical spirit.
If we have a righteous heart, we will give them the benefit of the doubt, until we research the facts carefully. Righteous judgment can follow if we double check our motives and act according the divine law of the scriptures.
Keeping in mind that we are also capable of a sinful nature, we should only judge after careful discernment and with the utmost mercy.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Bloodbought
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
We believe we can judge under righteous judgment, but is has to be done with the right motives. However, we ourselves have to die daily, and so often we all are working on something in our lives. How can we hypocritically condemm others?
Hi Good NewsforAll,
What is your interpretation of “righteous judgment?”
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Good NewsforAll
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The Pharisess were always passing judgment but Jesus told the that he doesn't make judgment by human standards, but only judges through the Father.How many in this present day judge by man's standards and by the influence of others rather using pure motives of love and not in anger?
John 8:14 Jesus told them, “These claims are valid even though I make them about myself. For I know where I came from and where I am going, but you don’t know this about me. 15 You judge me by human standards, but I do not judge anyone. 16 And if I did, my judgment would be correct in every respect because I am not alone. The Father who sent me is with me. 17 Your own law says that if two people agree about something, their witness is accepted as fact. 18 I am one witness, and my Father who sent me is the other.
Jesus main purpose in life was to preach salvation and save the world, not to judge.
John 12:47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Throughout many of the scriptures we will see that judgment will be for the last days. We think that we always have to be condemning people and doing all of the judgment work, when indeed the Holy Sprit can be far more effective to convict people than we can. We can sew some loving seed as a reminder and leave the rest to the Holy Spriit.
quote:
All of us would do well to focus more on judging favorably, and extending mercy. Both are ways of showing God's grace. We'll find that over time, it really has the potential to transform our personalities to be more like Christ. Listen to Jesus words one more time: -
Luke 6:35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. [ecgr.net
We believe we can judge under righteous judgment, but is has to be done with the right motives. However, we ourselves have to die daily, and so often we all are working on something in our lives. How can we hypocritically condemm others?
quote:
While we can discern sin in practice, only God knows the motive of the heart. We need to leave final judgment up to him. To judge another is to presume to have both the knowledge and authority of God himself. So when we are in a situation where we are tempted to condemn someone, we need to step back, hand the situation over to the Lord, and remind ourselves that it is his job to render judgement, not ours. As we read in James 4:12, “There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?'" (egrc.net)
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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