|
Author
|
Topic: The calvanist's claim to fame
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
When we are unbound, we are free to choose. Somewhere in scripture it says that no one seeks God. In another it says that except the Spirit draw us to Him, we would not consider Him. So He draws us, but we exercise choice. We are lifted up, or cornered, but our will did play a role. He meant for it to be that way. So what if we are predictable? He gave us the blessed dignity to choose, even if we were already chosen. I think that it is fantastic! Amen!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
|
posted
Christ died for all sinners.
1 Peter 3:18 Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.
--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Posts: 400 | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
. Either He knows who will be saved, or He has predestined who will be saved.
This is impossible because the scriptures say that he is not willing that any should perish. Jesus died on the cross for EVERYONE.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
The Church is not everyone. The church is only those for whom Christ died.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. (Matthew 13:8, NIV)
The gospel message cannot be reduced to a simple formula. This parable should encourage spiritual “sowers”—those who teach, preach, and lead others. The farmer sowed good seed, but not all the seed sprouted, and even the plants that grew had varying yields. Don’t be discouraged if you do not always see results as you faithfully teach the Word. Belief cannot be forced to follow a mathematical formula (i.e., a 4:1 ratio of seeds planted to seeds sprouted). Rather, it is a miracle of God’s Holy Spirit as he uses your words to lead others to him.
The gospel message must be given to create some response. The four types of soil represent different responses to God’s message. People respond differently because they are in different states of readiness. Some are hardened, others are shallow, others are contaminated by distracting worries, and some are receptive.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
|
posted
I do have to admit that there are times when the Holy Spirit comes after us through conviction, usually if he has a special ministry in life for us, like Paul, or there is someone praying for us.
Even though Paul was struck blind, it was three days later before he came to Christ and was filled with the Holy Spirit.
People still have an choice to ignore that conviction, and also to remain in the spirit once given salvation.
Paul speaking to the church of Galatia - Galatians 5:1 So Christ has really set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law.
I can't help but think about a local case in mind where a young college student got killed in a car accident recently. He grew up in an evangelical church, and had been in an accident in which a friend of his got killed a few years ago.
On this particular night about a month ago he was driving after partying and drinking with some friends and had the accident. There were others in the car. I don't remember if anyone else was killed, but of course they were injured. It really came up in my spirit that the Holy Spirit probably convicted him on the first occasion and he ignored the tugging and look what eventually happened.
--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Posts: 400 | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Even now we bornagain Christians have the freedom of choice:
Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
We choose how to present ourselves to God, for what and for how long. This clearly shows we have the freedom of choice to do more or less for God.
I do think that everyone has at least some freedom of choice, but I also think that this freedom is impinged upon in the here-and-now by our incomplete experiences of the past and by our fear of the future.
The parts of our choice-making mechanism that is preoccupied with those two things is NOT at our disposal in the here-and-now for choice-making; but the rest is.
love, eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Goodnewsforall,
LOL I caught that......the 75%.....
Press on my sister, press on in the faith of Jesus. God is good.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
. Either He knows who will be saved, or He has predestined who will be saved.
This is impossible because the scriptures say that he is not willing that any should perish. Jesus died on the cross for EVERYONE.
The freedom of choice became a law in the Garden of Eden, and God will never, or cannot, break any covenant promise he has made.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
When the earth became fallen, God had already given man dominion over this earth and freedom of choice and couldn't take it away. That is why the earth is in such a mess as it is in. We could all choose God, but the prince of this earth takes advantage of man's weakness to choose evil. The 75% lost have someone whispering in their ear, giving them the right to choose the wrong path.
--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Posts: 400 | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Brother Bloodbought you will notice that Jesus was talking to his disciples in John 14, thus his remark,"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit,
Yes, I know, but what some of us are trying to find out is who does the choosing.
In this instance Jesus did the choosing, but could the Disciples have decided not to run with His choice, or could they have chosen Him just as easily as He chose them?
We do have freedom of choice and I agree with our brother Michael, “All who choose are drawn to Him by the Holy Spirit.” Michael went on to say, “Yet, many who choose not, also are drawn by the Holy Spirit.” We don’t know, but that may indeed be the case. However, if they are drawn in some measure by the Holy Spirit and never chose Christ, their hell would be two hells because it would have been better for them not to know. They are held personally responsible. That being said, Jesus word stands, Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Either He knows who will be saved, or He has predestined who will be saved.
quote:
Our ears will hear the message, but it is our choice whether to accept Jesus or not. It is his will that everyone hears the message, but the devil certainly works overtime to make sure that will never happen.
Do we accept Jesus of our own free will, or by the influence of the Holy Spirit?
God is stronger than the devil. The devil can’t do anything more than God allows.
God bless.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world , therefore the world hateth you.
Brother Bloodbought you will notice that Jesus was talking to his disciples in John 14, thus his remark,"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit,
"I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." He is grooming them to spread the Good News, and prepare them for the consequences.
Mark 16:15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Our ears will hear the message, but it is our choice whether to accept Jesus or not. It is his will that everyone hears the message, but the devil certainly works overtime to make sure that will never happen.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Posts: 400 | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Bloodbought,
If I may I believe I could give an example for Michaels statement "many are drawn by the holy spirit but choose not".
There were disciples who were following Jesus for a while and when Jesus began to speak of the eating of His flesh they departed from Jesus and followed Him no more. These men certainly were drawn by the "spirit of truth" but they departed of their own will when Jesus said something they did not like the sound of.........this sounds a little like the example that I gave above. What about many of the Israelites who even after being taken out of bondage turned to unbelief and rebelled against God. There are so many more examples I am sure.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Hi Daniel,
What you are referring to is the believer’s walk, which is another topic. The believer can walk afar off or even stop walking altogether and still be saved although it isn’t good for their spiritual well being. It breaks down fellowship with God unless or until there is confession and repentance. There are many examples throughout the scriptures of believers backsliding. They could have maintained fellowship by continuing to listen to Jesus and talking to Him while He was with them, but for us now prayer and Bible study maintain fellowship.
I don’t think God makes us do anything against our will, but He can create the circumstances to make us willing for His will.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Bloodbought,
If I may I believe I could give an example for Michaels statement "many are drawn by the holy spirit but choose not".
There were disciples who were following Jesus for a while and when Jesus began to speak of the eating of His flesh they departed from Jesus and followed Him no more. These men certainly were drawn by the "spirit of truth" but they departed of their own will when Jesus said something they did not like the sound of.........this sounds a little like the example that I gave above. What about many of the Israelites who even after being taken out of bondage turned to unbelief and rebelled against God. There are so many more examples I am sure.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Hello Ireland!
quote:
I respect the view of those who believe we have free choice to choose Christ without the help of the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is involved, look at Jesus words to Nicodemus.
I didn't say that anyone could choose without the help of the Holy Spirit. All who choose are drawn to Him by the Holy Spirit. Yet, many who choose not, also are drawn by the Holy Spirit.
I’m not sure what scripture you are referring to when you say “many who choose not, also are drawn by the Holy Spirit.”
We can’t know everything God is doing with everyone, but we do know what He did with some.
Take the conversion of the Apostle Paul for example.
Acts 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
When the pricks come they make you think.
Could Paul have chosen to ignore what was happening to him? I don’t know, but the fact is that when Jesus revealed Himself to him he chose to accept Him.
Does any one here think that there are times when the Holy Spirit fails to achieve His purpose?
To put it another way, do you think there are times when man’s will is powerful enough to resist the drawing of the Holy Spirit if God wants them saved?
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
CHEWY
Advanced Member
Member # 6970
|
posted
Would anyone agree that the saved person has more freewill than an unsaved? I think the saved person does have more freewill than the unsaved.
What about God's freewill? Being omnipotent, he of course has the power to do anything. I view the Scriptures as supporting this when it tells us that all things are possible through God. However, God has limited His freewill with His Word on many issues. God cannot lie [or perform evil himself for that matter]. Since God cannot lie, His Holy Bible must be true. I recently heard a message from a certain denominationally driven pastor say that since God is omnipotent, if He chooses to allow [say a Muslim] who hasn't accepted Christ into heaven, He can. I disagree. Because He has stated that Christ is the only Way and since He cannot lie, He has eliminated [or at least limited] His own freewill in this area and cannot do this.
Does that make any sense?
Therefore, by His own accord, we can't truly say that God has total freewill. It is probably better stated that God has no will in the arena of considering sin as an action. That would stem from His righteous nature. We do not possess this righteous nature even now [after regeneration]in and of ourselves. The righteousness we possess was imputed to us as Christ hung on the cross. So is it safe for me to state that man does have a totally depraved nature since we can and do still sin [either by commission or omission]?
Still gathering information-
Chewy-
Posts: 86 | From: Kingsport Tn. | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
OneinChrist: Should we start looking for a padded cell? Some things aren't meant to be figured out, like the notion of trying to conceive of someone who has no beginning. After all, how old is He? And what was the first thing He did; or, was there a first thing? If there was no first thing, then in what order did everything come?
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
There is no chicken and egg here. Like i say, it is easier to believe in someone who has no end, because we can conceive of a beginning. But no beginning is quite scary!
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Hello Ireland!
quote:
I respect the view of those who believe we have free choice to choose Christ without the help of the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is involved, look at Jesus words to Nicodemus.
I didn't say that anyone could choose without the help of the Holy Spirit. All who choose are drawn to Him by the Holy Spirit. Yet, many who choose not, also are drawn by the Holy Spirit.
I think that the meat of the question is did God choose for us? If so, therefore we are predetermined to be believers. With God it may well be so, however, something seems amiss if we 'assume' this position. It, like so many things is a mystery.
Still, it is a fact that He gave us our will. Now, He is greater than our will. He is who He is. Nevertheless, He will not barge in. If we choose, then He is in. Amen!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Alright, alright, alright. I want to ask you guys a question.
Lets say you have a room full of people(unbelievers) and a believer walks in and begins to preach the gospel message to them.
He tells them the story of Jesus Christ and explains to them our need to be saved from our sin. Lets assume he is clear and uses simple language to ensure they understand. After he is finished, lets say half the unbelievers respond favorably and ask what they must do in order to be saved? He responds "You must repent, be baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus for the forgiveness of sin, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Now lets say that only half of the group who responded favorably go on to repent and be baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus. That means only 25% of the total in the room actually were added to the church. Ok, now for the other 75% which consisted of 50% who just looked uninterested and took off, and another 25% who backed out when the believer told them what they must do in order to be saved.............
Do you say that the Lord was not interested in saving the 75%?; therefore, He did not send the spirit to fall on them so that they could believe..... or did the 75% willfully reject Jesus by rejecting the believers words?
With love in Christ, Daniel
The 75% willfully reject Jesus by rejecting the believers words?
If you have further questions I will try to answer tomorrow DV.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Most excellent post Bloodbought! Yet, it looks like it points to back to the ‘elected’ controversy, or the predestination argument. However, despite that, we still got to choose. He didn’t make us choose, though He may have known the choice that we would make. And it really comes down to the fact that we cannot pin these things down and make a hard theology out of them. They in fact can both be true at once possibly, in some of these cases.
Our minds cannot completely encompass the spiritual. What looks like contradiction in the flesh, is not in the spiritual. So....
What we do know is that God is not sitting back wondering what will happen next. Look at all the predictions in scripture, some fulfilled and some yet to be fulfilled.
None of it is going against God’s will, but all will be fulfilled in accordance with His will, otherwise He has lost control and I don’t believe that we can thwart His plan.
I respect the view of those who believe we have free choice to choose Christ without the help of the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is involved, look at Jesus words to Nicodemus.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Water = the Word) and the Spirit. The Spirit applies the word to the heart mainly through preaching, but sometimes the Spirit himself is the teacher who guides into all truth.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Alright, alright, alright. I want to ask you guys a question.
Lets say you have a room full of people(unbelievers) and a believer walks in and begins to preach the gospel message to them.
He tells them the story of Jesus Christ and explains to them our need to be saved from our sin. Lets assume he is clear and uses simple language to ensure they understand. After he is finished, lets say half the unbelievers respond favorably and ask what they must do in order to be saved? He responds "You must repent, be baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus for the forgiveness of sin, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Now lets say that only half of the group who responded favorably go on to repent and be baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus. That means only 25% of the total in the room actually were added to the church. Ok, now for the other 75% which consisted of 50% who just looked uninterested and took off, and another 25% who backed out when the believer told them what they must do in order to be saved.............
Do you say that the Lord was not interested in saving the 75%?; therefore, He did not send the spirit to fall on them so that they could believe..... or did the 75% willfully reject Jesus by rejecting the believers words?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Most excellent post Bloodbought! Yet, it looks like it points to back to the ‘elected’ controversy, or the predestination argument. However, despite that, we still got to choose. He didn’t make us choose, though He may have known the choice that we would make. And it really comes down to the fact that we cannot pin these things down and make a hard theology out of them. They in fact can both be true at once possibly, in some of these cases.
Our minds cannot completely encompass the spiritual. What looks like contradiction in the flesh, is not in the spiritual. So....
TB125 Well! I see now that I misread your post. I see what you are saying here. Yea! quote:
Jesus was not talking about individuals who could "bear much fruit" (Jn. 15:4) from a will that is "free", in my opinion.
But:
quote:
Jesus' instruction and warning is for individuals whose will must be transformed and energized by their union with Jesus. Such a will is not "free".
The way that you say this, if you are saying that the will of the servant of the Lord is not free, indeed not, insomuch as he is the slave of his master by willing submission. But it is free to choose error until, or to errantly choose until he has passed from here.
quote:
Bak 2 Bloodbought: quote:
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,
Here i have to say, from what translation i don't recall, "Not that we loved Him, but that He loved us first." He drew us to Him, but we still chose, and I'm certain that some rejected.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
Man has free will, but in his natural state his will is against God and toward evil. He doesn’t have the will to trust Christ and be saved without the influence of the Holy Spirit giving him the will to do so.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man , but of God.
Looks like man doesn’t choose God, but God chooses man.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world , therefore the world hateth you.
I see it this way, not because of Calvin, but because of the above scriptures and also because of my own experience. When I prayed for understanding of the way of salvation, suddenly it was as if scales were lifted from my eyes and I saw my sin and Christ dieing for my sin and immediately I trusted Him for salvation. Before this I had the will to try to please God by my own self-righteous efforts. I know now I was blind until I received a miracle of Grace.
He has given the will to surrender and given His amazing gift, praise His name.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
|
posted
Michael,
What do you think Jesus meant when he told his disciples and us that "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)?
Neither they nor us would ever have the power, the ability, the will, the wisdom, or the dedication enough to do anything on their own apart from their union with Jesus.
Jesus was not talking about individuals who could "bear much fruit" (Jn. 15:4) from a will that is "free", in my opinion. Jesus' instruction and warning is for individuals whose will must be transformed and energized by their union with Jesus. Such a will is not "free".
--------------------
Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
Well: quote:
No human being is "free" enough, smart enough, dedicated enough, surrendered enough, good enough, filled enough to do, even for one day, all that God wants him or her to do.
I think that scripture dissagrees with this.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
OK! I want to take it from this standpoint of consideration: Evil! Just what is evil? Evil, simply is to be, to do, separate from God. When scriptures speak of being double, this is what it means - evil. That is when you do your own thing in your own wisdom, which you do separate from God.
Why did I say that? You may not like this. It may be a hard pill to take, but blessed is he who considers! To be evil, is to exercise free will. So before you jump all over me, consider A&E in the garden of E! They had choices one hundred to one over the one choice which they were not supposed to choose. Within that range, they were completely within God's will. One choice exercised free will in a way that was fatal for mankind, save for Jesus Christ. But free will was not a stumbling block, as long as it was His will also. Amen! So choices are not eliminated, but limited to what He will fill!
Further consideration of what oneinchrist said leads me to ask what his motivation was to speak so. I started thinking that the perhaps abrasive, dominating way that some things were spoken by recent guests may have been the catalyst. Which leads me to think: In the name of the sovereignity of God, it is not a reason to impose, or dominate, certainly not dictate to one another. It is not a license for one to impose God's will. That would be a work of the flesh, and the one would not be yielded, but rather self exalting.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
|
posted
I think that the only people who ever had a really "free will" were Eve and Adam. After they chose to disobey God's command by eating of the "fruit" that he had forbidden them to eat, their wills were no longer free. Their wills were severely damaged and impaired by their sin, infected by Satan's lies and influence. Their children, including Cain and Abel, and all other human beings have inherited this affliction.
No human being is "free" enough, smart enough, dedicated enough, surrendered enough, good enough, filled enough to do, even for one day, all that God wants him or her to do.
There are a lot of articles and books that have been written on this topic, but this is my brief answer to this question regarding the "free will" of man.
--------------------
Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by CHEWY:
Question...
How much free will does a person have? Did he have more free will before he was saved or after? Does God have free will?
Just gathering information.
Chewy-
WOW now this can open up a deep discussion.
FREE WILL
I for one am looking forward to your thoughts on this.
But to bring some light on what some others think I saw this blog and it was very interesting:
http://philochristos.blogspot.com/2006/01/does-god-have-free-will.html
These are not my thoughts, but I did find it very interesting.
Just gathering information.
.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Chewy,
Your question cannot be answered by any man. I think the important thing as believers in Jesus Christ is that we use whatever recources that we have in an effort towards giving honor and glory to God. I think that should be the focus. Obviously it's only as much as God will allow without humans being able to have any affect on God's words of promise being carried out throughout eternity. I once thought that perhaps called leaders of God may have less freewill than the average joe, but I dont think that way any more. Many of God's great leaders had great fall's that they had to take personal responsiblility for. Thanks for the reply Chewy. Press on in the faith of Jesus.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
CHEWY
Advanced Member
Member # 6970
|
posted
Question...
How much free will does a person have? Did he have more free will before he was saved or after? Does God have free will?
Just gathering information.
Chewy-
Posts: 86 | From: Kingsport Tn. | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
And
![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) Amen
I can continue on: This is our sacrifice! Or should we withhold? what benefit is therein?
"I beseech you brethren to present your bodies a living sacrifice..." Romans
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
By faith, which can only happen by our will, we put our trust ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif) and i am going to stop there even though it is an incomplete sentence.
It isn't about sovereignty, but about free will submission to His sovereignty, not as though our will is overridden, but rather surrendered. And again Amen!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Free will my brother, is a fact. However, "Thy will be done on earth, as in Heaven," is our obedience, to submit unto, insomuch as to untie His hands, for thus will to be freely done.
It is 'the' prayer that is to be prayed. "Pray after this manner," said He.
It has nothing to do with anyone but you and Him. No 'ists' of any caliber, have any relevance to this, but the one who claims to want to see Him exaulted does. Without that surrender, we abide in disobedience, plain and simple. We lose out on relationship. We break His heart while justifying our free will. Well, that is how it is, and it is the same as rejecting Him as savior when we are approached. Free will can work against one there too! Free will is a fact that God gave unto us, to choose, or not to choose. Yet, to abandon free will is divine.
I said it before. I'll say it once more: "Thy will be done on earth, as in heaven," is our calling. For who knows best??? Who created us and our surroundings? Who more can we trust?
Amen
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
It is apparent that calvanist proponents think that they glorify God more exceedingly by showing His sovereignty to eliminate the possiblity of free-will.
I will tell you that these bold proclamations of a calvanist will not glorify God any more than words alone may glorify Him.
It is through submission to the guidance of the Holy Spirit and through obedience to the teachings and commands of our Lord Jesus that our lives will give glory to God and lift up the Name of His Son.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
