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Author
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Topic: Adam: Heel or Hero
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, Scythewieldor. You said quote:
The choice that seemed to have the least pain for himself and the most comfort for the bone of his bone and the flesh of his flesh was to give up his life in the Garden of Eden and help his wife--and die.
Although Adam was in a deep sleep when Eve was taken from Adam's rib, Adam later understood where Eve had come from because Adam said that she was "bone of his bone".
Adam also knew that she was a miracle wife, born after the order of Isaac, as it were. And so Adam could have had the same faith that Abraham later had, namely "figuring that God was able to make him another life" after the order of the first Eve before she sinned.
Hebrews 11:19
Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
It is indeed interesting to wonder what would have happened to Eve if Adam and refused and only Eve had sinned. Would she have been driven from the garden without a man, or would she have received a different punishment than being driven by herself from the garden "lest she also take of the tree of life"?
eden
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
You know, we really don't know. Some things are unapproachable; yet some things are revelated to us right off of the page, and speculation is sometimes blessed. At any rate, it is kind of fun.
I think that they were just going to fall, Eve and Adam. It was simply a matter of time, and God knew this. He had a plan. Think of this verse, which is kinda odd:
1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
We don't think of Him this way. We would be afraid of blaspheming. He is the master craftsman of all, and forever, and i have often thought this: He poured His best creativeness into satan, and satan lifted up in pride and failed. Thereafter, I think that in order to sucessfully put his best into His creation, say for example a beautiful blushing bride that would not fail Him, that she needed to be made in the fire, tried by fire, so that He could go all out. That would be us, the bride of Christ!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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lonlesol
Advanced Member
Member # 4511
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posted
Michael...I knew that you wouldn't understand what I meant to say...I am sorry but my English isn't good enough to say it any better than that...I am afraid that even my French wouldn't be better either, sometimes I have difficulties saying what I want to say...
Yes, Adam DID reject God by choosing to go along with Eve's SIN, but not by being/living with Eve...Eve does not equal SIN, Eve equals a human being, just like Adam is. Just like us, they were both just human. And apart from God, we are not worthy...do you see what I am trying to say?...
quote:
God would have forgiven the unrighteous woman through the righteousness of her husband.
Yes, that is what I meant to say......
If only Adam had told or explained to Eve the reason of why not to listen to the serpent.....maybe this whole mess wouldn't have happened!......
But then, suppose this...if Adam and Eve had been intelligent enough to figure out by themselves what was truly good and what was truly evil the way God does, they would have thought that they didn't need God in the first place...
I have had a very long and hard day today, maybe I am not making any sense at this moment.....I am done........ ![[zzzzzz]](graemlins/20.gif)
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
Why, that is a resonable possibility Aaron.
quote:
Michael...there was nothing wrong for man to choose the woman because God wants man to marry woman for God said Himself, 18 "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
I am a little amazed lonesol! ![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif) In choosing the fallen woman, he rejected God. ![[Confused]](confused.gif) God could have given him another woman (or not, depending if you believe scythes prognostication). It is a tough speculation, this un.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Aaron
unregistered
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posted
As Christ is the savior of the body, which is the church, Adam, likewise, could have acted as savior to the woman, Eve.
If he had not taken of the fruit and
because there is no schism in the body and
Adam and Eve were "one",
God would have forgiven the unrighteous woman through the righteousness of her husband. God could not destroy 1/2 of the living "one" and claim to preserve the life of Adam...they were one flesh. A living organism cut in half ceases to exist.
We have this picture: The side of a man was opened and his bride was taken out of him (God did not make Eve from just another lump of clay). Later, a Man's side was opened and the Bride was inserted into Him.
This is why a second man, and a second husband, was required. So that, through the veil, which is His flesh, the wife is surely preserved as she enters into the presence of God and she receives the glory due her Husband.
Aaron
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lonlesol
Advanced Member
Member # 4511
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posted
quote:
the man choose the woman over God, a cardinal no-no
Michael...there was nothing wrong for man to choose the woman because God wants man to marry woman for God said Himself, 18 "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
I think that the problem here wasn't that he spent time with Eve herself, but rather because he chose to go ahead with the sin...
Maybe, if Adam had told Eve not to listen to the serpent, maybe this whole mess wouldn't have happened?...
Oups...I just realized...It may sound that way, but I am not trying to put everything on Adam's shoulders...they were both guilty of sin... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
scythe, the man choose the woman over God, a cardinal no-no. I understand his weakness though. But that is why we are going through this messy life, to learn obedience in choice! ![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
Dear friends,
quote:
Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression <3847>, who is the figure of him that was to come.
I am so surprised that no one brought in the counsel of God on this topic.
quote:
Ro 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Adam, indeed, sinned. Adam was a transgressor, indeed. However, his transgression was not a result of being deceived.
Paul writes that the woman is the weaker vessel- not the weak vessel. What is man's weakness if it is not being prone to deception? Maybe it is lust for his woman. Maybe it is anger directed towards God for "letting the serpent tempt" his woman.
Maybe it was bitterness against his woman for putting him in such a predicament.
quote:
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Well said
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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lonlesol
Advanced Member
Member # 4511
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posted
I wish Adam and Eve hadn't disobeyed but what is done is done...we cannot change the past...we can only change ourselves by repenting for our sins and ask forgiveness...
Man cannot control woman and woman cannot control man...and neither can they control their children...and children cannot control their parents...
Each individual will make their own choices in life, whether we personally like or not what their choices will be...
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
Yea! For no reason are we to do that! It's a consequence thing, and look at the consequence that we already suffer. In fact the whole point is not only about disobeying, but about not needing to. God would have been able to pull it out!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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lonlesol
Advanced Member
Member # 4511
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posted
Excuses excuses excuses...
Adam was as guilty as Eve was...period...they both ate the fruit...how it happened makes no difference...either way, they both disobeyed God...
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
Dear friends,
I was thinking about what Paul said concerning Adam, today.
quote:
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
According to this statement, Eve was in the transgression because of the way she was deceived, but Adam was not deceived.
To me, this declaration means that Adam, after a cold calculation, came to a choice having perfectly analyzed the facts involved.
The facts were like this:
- Adam knew for a fact that the bone of his bone and the flesh of his flesh was a goner.
- Adam knew that someone would have to keep the bone of his bone and the flesh of his flesh from coming back into the Garden of Eden.
- Adam knew that it would be very painful if he tried to keep the bone of his bone and the flesh of his flesh from the Tree of Life.
- Adam knew that the world outside of the Garden of Eden would be hard on the bone of his bone and the flesh of his flesh.
- Adam knew that God could take another rib from his side and make another wife for him.
- Adam knew that the next woman would be another weaker vessel prone to being deceived.
- Adam knew that he only had so many ribs.
- Adam knew that, even if another of his ribs was made into a wife, he could not go through all that pain again.
The choice that seemed to have the least pain for himself and the most comfort for the bone of his bone and the flesh of his flesh was to give up his life in the Garden of Eden and help his wife- and die.
Consider how husbands are supposed to care for their wives.
quote:
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Consider how Jesus who, according to Romans 7:1-4, died, having been married Judah (and, therefore, previously to Israel), in order to make their sin forgettable.
quote:
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Adam's choice was not a choice that was born out of a belief that God had lied. Eve's choice was.
In all the versions I have, it seems that Eve was in the transgression but Adam was not.
He believed God that he would die when he ate the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Eve believed she would not.
When Adam responded to God about having eaten that which he was commanded not to eat seems to be in regard to is duty to the one God had given to be with him.
quote:
Gen 3:11 ¶ And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
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