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Author
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Topic: Ezekiel 37: do you think that has happened already or not yet?
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scythewieldor
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posted
Dear friends,
I believe that what has happened with Judah in the land of Israel is a keeping of the promise to strengthen Judah while He saves the house of Joseph.
quote:
Zec 10:6 And I will strengthen <01396> the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.
When God says that Joseph shall be as though He "had not cast them off", that means He makes the tribes of Israel attached to Joseph in the hand of Ephraim a nation, again. The next verses describe the process of bringing saved Joseph to the point of nationhood where he is strengthened.
quote:
Zec 10:7 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD.
8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.
9 And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again.
10 I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and place shall not be found for them.
11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.
12 And I will strengthen them in the LORD; and they shall walk up and down in his name, saith the LORD.
Joseph, as a nation of saved Israelites, has the unique ability to have mercy on Judah as God had mercy on him. This is good, for, though Judah is strengthened, he is not saved- yet.
Judah does not get saved until the 12th chapter of Zechariah.
quote:
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
The unity for which God is looking, the unity that signifies that the bride is prepared, will not allow for Joseph (in this chapter, called the inhabitants of Jerusalem, signifying that the grafting in of the branches from the wild olive tree to Jeremiah's good olive tree is advanced) to see Judah as anything but (read: neither more nor less than) a brother. Right now, there are parts of the saved who expect that saved Judah shall be held in a light that seems idolatrous to me; there are others who call themselves Christians who hate the Jews.\
That unity will not happen before the chiefs of Judah have their heart change.
quote:
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
That change of heart precipitates God's salvation of Judah, and the re-grafting of them as inhabitants of Jerusalem. It, also, precipitates the return of the proper inhabitants of Jerusalem to their place. (In other words, I believe that, by saying, "The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first", the schedule of the events listed in Chapter Twelve begin with Judah getting saved.)
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Zec 10:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
From verse eight on, there is no more reference to Judah. However, the Lord defends the inhabitants of Jerusalem and they see the One whom they have pierced. Notice the resurrection power manifest in making the feeble as David and the house of David as the angel of the Lord.
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Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 ¶ And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Having seen the One whom they have pierced come to their rescue, there is great mourning in Jerusalem.
quote:
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Interestingly, the families to which Zechariah referred by name as mourning apart were families which are acknowledged in the Old Testament as having residing there. The word that is translated "apart". A Strong's search of the word translated "apart", here, shows that it is translated, earlier, in the Old Testament as "staves". The context of that usage shows that the staves are pieces of wood that come from a tree: branches broken off.
I believe that, before we are able to show Judah heart-changing mercy, we will be gathered and set in Lebanon and Gilead while no one thinks we belong there.
quote:
Zec 10:10 I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and place shall not be found for them.
When we have shown Judah heart-awakening mercy, they obtain mercy and invite us to take our part in natural Jerusalem which will be the beginning of seeing it as heavenly, as well.
That change will be marked by a reversal of values in Jerusalem, provoking the the nations to hate us like never before.
They bring their armies and the Lord shows up to defend.
The families of the those that were, actually, a part of piercing Jesus mourn like they did when King Josiah was killed.
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Isaiah
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Certainly, The fact that Israel became a nation is bible prophecy fulfilled -but not Ezekiel 37.
The nation called Israel today is surprisingly-for the most part -secular. These verses say God will put his spirit in them and they will KNOW he has performed it -when they come out of their graves. Coming out of their graves is not figurative -but even if one thought so, the mojority in Israel do not have God's spirit or know he has done anything.
Furthermore, the nation Israel today -as seen on a map -is populated by mostly the house of Judah -and began primarily as a result of Jews leaving Europe due to extreme persecution, etc... and wanting their own homeland -though certainly led by God to do so.
The houses of Judah and Israel are not yet one again. Most of Israel do not even know who they are -and though the two houses do work together sometimes -they do not always act in harmony, and are about to make some huge mistakes.
Many prophecies could not be fulfilled until the migration of Israelites (mostly Judah) back to around Jerusalem. It is a blessing -and will be a blessing to all people -eventually -but the trouble is by no means over.
The existence of Israel is an extreme irritant to many people -and the "peace process" will be central to end-time conflicts.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Hosea 5 explains how -rather than turning to God -they will turn to the "Assyrian" to cure their "wound"... But the Assyrian does not have their best interest in mind -quite the oppostite.
"Isa 10:5-7 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
I will send him against a hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few."
He will destroy BY PEACE(Dan 8:25)
God, however -tells his people not to fear...
"Isa 10:24-25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt. For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction."
"Isa 14:24-26 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations."
"Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
"Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. "
Note that in Hosea 5, peoples of the whole of Israel are addressed separately....
"Hos 5:5 And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; Judah also shall fall with them."
There is much to be accomplished before Israel is again one, but it will happen -those who will come out of their graves will literally do so...
we know David slept with his fathers -but not so then..Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children forever: and my servant David shall be their prince forever..Eze 34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
As for Isaiah 60... the earth will have suffered destruction before Christ returns -but after he returns, he will begin also to transform the earth into a beautiful place...valleys will eventually -literally -be exalted, and mountains made low. About 2/3 of the earth's resources are not accessible -but will be made so -and those on earth will eventually -literally -have better materials to work with.
Isa 35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
Isa 35:7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
Isa 41:18 I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
Isa 41:19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
and the earth is only the beginning!!!!!!
Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
YEP! We get to help make the universe beautiful!
Yayyyy!!!!! ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif)
Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Posts: 288 | Registered: Aug 2007
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
Dear Eden,
I believe it is those which partake in the first resurrection. It seems to me that they are some of the remnant people of Rev 12:17 quote:
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
However, I believe they are, more particularly, the saints of Rev 13:7.
quote:
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Could it be that those which are counted worthy of the resurrection and are made even as the angels are the 144,000? Could it be that their refusal to take the mark of the beast of the verses immediately before the verses presented below is what got them killed and, thus, before the throne?
quote:
Rev 14:1 ¶ And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
quote:
Eze 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Could it be that that the ones who follow the Lamb whither soever He goeth is this exceeding great army of Israelites when the Lamb comes back for His battle?
quote:
Re 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
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Eden
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Isaiah 60
16 You shall also *s*u*c*k* the milk of the Gentiles, and you shall *s*u*c*k* the breast of kings: and you shall know that I the LORD am your Saviour and your Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
17 For brass I will bring gold and for iron I will bring silver and for wood brass and for stones iron: I will also make your officers peace, and your exactors righteousness.
18 Violence shall no more be heard in your land, wasting nor destruction within your borders; but you shall call your walls Salvation, and your gates Praise.
Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And I shall put My spirit in you, and you shall live and I shall place you in your own land: then shall you know that I the LORD have spoken it and performed it, says the LORD.
15 The word of the LORD also came again to me, saying,
16 Moreover, you son of man, take one stick and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions.
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in your hand.
Eden here. I have heard it taught that the event referred to in Ezekiel 37 above has already happened in May 1948, when a number of living Jews and/or Israelites became a nation again in a part of the land of Israel.
But Ezekiel 37 spoke of OPENING THE GRAVES, so is it right to equate this return of Ezekiel 37 with the fact that in May 1948 Israel, or part of Israel and Judah, became a nation again.
But what about the dead Israelites and Judahites who died among the Gentiles? They will be raised up too, right?
Paul said, "so shall all Israel be saved", and Ezekiel 37 seems to bear that out:
Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves.
Who on this board thinks that this has already happened in May 1948 (and is still kind of going on), and who on this board thinks that this event is still in our future?
love, eden
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