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Author Topic: Test Spirits, or Afraid?
Keith
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Isa 8:20 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


Rev 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Rev 22:12-21 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Bye for now.
Y. b. in C. Keith

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Kwistina
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aiopj: Interesting. This is a good discussion, actually, not as "heated" as most of yours tend to be.

You see that making yourself softer and less harsh compromises the word of God, is this correct? That it makes you somehow . . . deceptive? That taking the effort to "tweak" your delivery with a softer approach is worldliness by proxy? Is this what you mean?

But . . . are you using "perception" as an excuse for bad behavior? It sounds like you are. You percieve the rest of us to be weak for attempting a delivery designed to appeal the emotional needs of others. But we percieve you as purposefully causing emotional upset with no reason to. And I, for one, see this as an excuse for laziness. Don't get me wrong, I agree that harsh tones are necessary . . . in the proper context. You are quite clearly a strong man of thunder and lightening-but not all situations require such a powerful approach. For example, you do not "pussyfoot" around, but would you honestly use such blunt language with, for example, the woman you love? would you not, instead, treat her more gently as one would a treasured possession? Do you "thunder" at her, as well?

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The best test I know came from Jesus himself: By their fruits you will know them. What is the fruit? Is it love, joy, peace, kindness, etc? Does it align with the word of God and the character of Jesus? Or is it something else. Sometimes it is necessary to wait until the seed sprouts and bears fruit before you know. Until then, it is best to withhold judgment.
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Michael Harrison
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KJV 1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

A brother from overseas spoke in a small congregation many years ago. He quoted this verse. He elaborated: "Every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ IS COME in the flesh is not of God" Here is another example of why I like the KJV. Any new translation will read 'has come'. Do you hear the difference? Has come is a historical fact! IS COME, is now. He is come in the believer, in the church of believers. Any spirit that confesses not that He is come in the flesh, simply does not recognize Him, or His work, or His present working.

I don't know if the Greek will bear this out. Likely, most Greek geeks will not sympathize with this, but it is a useless passage if this is not how it reads. ;-)) For as you can see, all we can do is come up with speculation about how to test someone! And when it comes to the difference in cults, and denominations, this test would be a significant filter.

If you think about it, Jesus is past tense for almost all faiths. He is future tense for some. In between however, He gets left out by cults, or dry denominations. It's so rude!

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PresbyGirl
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Hi aiojp! Thank you for the beautiful story of how God apprehended you and continues to guide you. I sense in you a prophetic spirit. Please receive what I am about to say as coming from a sister who loves the Lord and His people, and who is in agreement that the prophetic is all too rare in our day.

You speak with great tenderness about God's dealing with you, about how the creator of the universe came to one who, in your words, can be such an idiot in the flesh, and placed the stamp of the divine on you. He called you. He claimed you. And now He has commissioned you.

I would urge you, aiojp, to consider the tenderness of God toward you. His great genetlness, kindness and love. Consider how it came to you. Consider the humility of God. Consider God's word to you, not only in what He spoke, but in how He spoke it -- with kindness, assurance, humility, beauty and deep, intimate, personal, tender love. Allow yourself to be absorbed in that aspect of God's character. Honestly, aiojp, I could almost imagine you typing that story with tears in your eyes as you recalled that miraculous experience. And I would urge you also to allow that gentleness and tenderness to be reflected in how you speak the truth. God was that way to you. May you become that way with others.

You have the courage to speak truth even a great cost. May you also have the courage to look honestly inside, even if the cost may be your self-image. Your demeanor will probably always have an edge. Prophets are by definition edgy people. But prophets are also broken people, people who identify with the struggles of those to whom they are sent, who stand beside them in solidarity as fallen human beings in constant need of God's grace.

May God bless you deeply aiopj. The road He has set you upon is difficult, and it will be even more difficult with a tender heart that rejoices with those who rejoice and weeps with those who weep. Blessings!

--------------------
If you judge people, you have no time to love them. -- Mother Teresa

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aiopj
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
I do like the fact that you know a lot. I am admiring your knowledge of the Word of God and I am even admiring the crispness of your answers.

Although I chose to go His Way -- and I believe that He wants us to enjoy the credit for the choice; choosing Rightly goes on our account -- I give Him the credit for showing me how to be a teachable spirit, how to discern.

What I have, He gave me. I could not have done it by myself, given the stupid idiot that I am in my own strength.

A little over five years ago, already having turned to Him, on a Monday afternoon, I sat on my bed and asked myself out loud, "What should I do this afternoon?"

Close by, on a teevee tray stand, I had the Amplified Bible sitting on a book stand. I had been reading It, but I hadn't looked at It for a couple, or few days.

An envelope -- on which, the previous day, I wrote the TBN and DayStar schedules for several preachers I found that I like -- stood on its corner, against the open face of the Bible.

Immediately after I asked the question, "What should I do this afternoon?" the envelope suddenly dropped to the teevee tray, exposing the open face of the Bible. There was no breeze in the room. No open windows. No fans. No gusts from air-conditioning ducts. I wasn't breathing hard. I didn't shake the stand; I was several feet away at the time. There was no earthquake. No hurricanes. No tornadoes.

I live 6 miles from an Air Force base, under the final approach fix of a TACAN approach, and there were no F-16s flyin' overhead, their pilots jockeying, as they like to do, their thrust levers enough to shake everything below out of their places.

That was the Lord! His very Hand, in my room, moved that envelope. He was there, ministering to me.

He was telling me to git my nose in that book [since then, I've relied on the King James Version, as the only Word of God preserved in English].

I told Him to give me everything He has, that I am teachable, that my heart is wide open to receive what He has to give me.

I am well aware that it tickled His Heart, and He has done what I asked according to His Will. He has performed flawlessly and with strong and mighty purpose in my life, even in such little things in which you would think God would not "waste" His Power. Even bringing a particularly friendly hummingbird back to me that had seemingly disappeared for periods of time several times. He brought the danged thing back to me, not once, not twice, not three times, but four, different times, within a minute, or two, each time of my either asking Him, or merely thinking toward Him about the hummingbird and praising Him for the experience and delight in His Creation. Imagine that! The General Manager of the universe takes the time and effort FOUR DIFFERENT TIMES, in just this one example, to perform a seemingly insignificant thing in my life. Not because He had to prove anything to me; He and I were walking together at those times -- and since -- and He wanted to see the delighted look on this canned ham I call, "my face."

The LORD was strong and mighty of purpose toward me many times in the past five years and since.

Therefore, my response to Him must, of purpose, must also be strong and mighty. In His Word! All those who are truly born again are called to purpose, to be strong and mighty in response to Him and for Him. Those who are truly born again must be strong and mighty in HIS Purpose, not our own.

Jesus came, as a man, to show us that we are able. However, we must also be willing, and to be willing to be able.

I, as others, also come, a man, born of God, to show that, if I can do it, ANYBODY can. There is no excuse. Not anymore. Time is short.

Git to gittin'!

Just as He told Moses, [paraphrased] to go and do what He already had told Moses to do: Tell the children of Israel to GO FORWARD! It's, "FOOOOORRRRWWWAAARRRRDDDD, HOOOOOOOO!" THAT'S the mission!

Git to gittin'!

STRONG AND MIGHTY PURPOSE, LORD!!

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aiopj
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
By seeing what kind of answers people give to Bible Topics, I can tell if what they are saying matches what the Bible says and/or what the Holy Spirit has said to me. If parts of their answers do not agree with what the Bible says, by that I can measure what kind of spirit I am dealing with.

And of course if someone is not even a Christian but is a self-declared atheist or agnostic, then of course I also know what kind of spirit I am dealing with: in this case, with an anti-Christ spirit.

However, among brother and sisters in Christ, I could test their spirits and find out how much they know about Christ, and place them on the continuum from carnal Christians to spiritual Christians, a distinction which Paul also made.

That's actually pretty decent.

quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
I do like the fact that you know a lot. I am admiring your knowledge of the Word of God and I am even admiring the crispness of your answers.

I'm not one for beating around the bush.

quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
But I loved what PresbyGirl said in your Topic, Love and Compassion, where she said that Jesus was truth AND grace. Truth is great but truth must be presented with grace.

That grace is not Grace.

quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
To repeat, I loved what PresbyGirl said in your Topic, Love and Compassion, where she said that Jesus was truth and grace. Truthmust be presented together with grace.

The Word of Truth and the Word of Grace are one and the same.

quote:
Originally posted by Eden:I know you are truthful, aiopj, but you need to shine your gracefulness up a bit more. Even PresbyGirl said she was "with Eden on that". And isn't she insightful?
Of course, as I said before, yours are subjective observations. Yeah, you're allowed to have them. That doesn't mean that, just because you have them, that they are a reflection of reality. In fact, people who have wrong perceptions invariably try to cause them to be reflected in reality.

My job is only to present the Word of truth, the Word of Grace. It's not my job to water It down, to soften It in order to make others feel good. Their feelings are not as important, in these latter days, as getting the Knowledge of God and letting It lead to Understanding/Comprehension and, finally, Wisdom. He said that people will get angry because of Him.

So, as I have said a number of times, people have to get by those perception mountains, or they can choose to circle them for the rest of Time. It's their decision whether to let their perceptions obscure their view of the Truth and block their Way to the Truth. If they wanna blame me, say that I am the mountain, I can't do anything about that, and I'm not gonna try to appease them and please them with anything but God's Word. They have to choose whether to receive It. If they don't, maybe they don't have the ears to hear, nor the eyes to see, and, maybe, then, it's not for them. Therefore, if it's not for them, if it doesn't apply to them, they can go on with life, no? I don't have the power to hold them back, and, yet, you say that I do; but I don't. What holds them back is their mountain range of perceptions which they choose to circle rather then head straight for the Truth.

Just this morning, just a couple of hours ago, God told me clearly, in my spirit, that I'm wasting time trying to figure out what method I should use in a Bible project. He told me it's more important now -- especially now -- to settle on one once and for all and to git to gittin' about it, that we got things to do. He reiterated that TIME'S A WASTIN' and that we ain't got much more time. Whatever it is that's in store, He, apparently, wants me in on it. Just little ol' me. So, I dunno. I just do, and increasing in and spreading the Word of His Testimony is part of what I am told I must do.

He has yet to tell me what exactly He has in mind for me, except to say, when I've asked for some indication of what He has in Mind for me to do with what He has given me, "In due time," that, for now, He wants me to expand my Knowledge -- capitalized to indicate HIS Knowledge -- and, over time, I have, and I continue to do so, but not as fast as He has this morning indicated He wants. He said that we've been dilly-dadlin' around too long trying to be perfect in the project when, according to Him, He's been trying to get me to stop the confusion and settle on the one method I settled on this morning after His talk.

And, so, I have chosen the method, and will do as He wishes so that He can provide me with what He has so I can further do what He wants me to do, according to His Will, not mine and not anybody else's.

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aiopj
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
whose spirits are we testing anyway, the spirits of UNbelievers or the spirits of believers, or both?

It says that those who are truly born again are to test the spirits to see whether they are godly.

That means, if you test the spirit, and it turns out to be godly, then it's godly.

If you test the spirit, and it turns out to be ungodly, then it's ungodly.

If you know the spirit, ahead of time, is ungodly, there is no need to test it.

For instance, an ungodly spirit does not rightly divide the Word of God. That is, he will go to Word of God for one, or two, verses, in his effort to defeat the Word of God. He is utterly incapable of relying upon Scripture upon Scripture, precept upon precept because he knows that the more he quotes from Scripture, the more chance there is that he will foul it up, that he will encourage the opposite effect from what he intends. So, then, he must rely on the fewest, scriptural references possible -- that is, one, at the most, two, verses -- to try to manipulate the weak and ignorant. That's the way the Devil works.

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Eden
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So, aiopj, whose spirits are we testing anyway, the spirits of UNbelievers or the spirits of believers, or both?

The unbelievers are to figure out, right? Then, that leaves the believers to figure out, or, who are we testing anyway?

Eden
"It was a great thing that He did for me"

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Eden
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Hi, aiopj.
Originally posted by Eden:
How do I test the spirits? By seeing what kind of answers people give to Bible Topics when I talk to them, in person or on the Internet. That's how I can tell what kind of person I am dealing with.

aiopj’s answer to Eden: You say that you see and talk and can tell. So, what's the standard when you test the spirits, to see whether they are godly? By what do you measure what they write, alleging to be godly?

Eden here: By seeing what kind of answers people give to Bible Topics, I can tell if what they are saying matches what the Bible says and/or what the Holy Spirit has said to me. If parts of their answers do not agree with what the Bible says, by that I can measure what kind of spirit I am dealing with.

And of course if someone is not even a Christian but is a self-declared atheist or agnostic, then of course I also know what kind of spirit I am dealing with: in this case, with an anti-Christ spirit.

However, among brother and sisters in Christ, I could test their spirits and find out how much they know about Christ, and place them on the continuum from carnal Christians to spiritual Christians, a distinction which Paul also made.

But in one of my other Topics, Carnal but still brethren, it seems to me that even carnal Christians are STILL BRETHREN: carnal brethern, yes, but not kicked out of the kingdom of God.

aiopj, I do like the fact that you know a lot. I am admiring your knowledge of the Word of God and I am even admiring the crispness of your answers.

But I loved what PresbyGirl said in your Topic, Love and Compassion, where she said that Jesus was truth AND grace. Truth is great but truth must be presented with grace.

I am confident that the Holy Spirit is a Perfect Gentleman.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Ephesians 2:7
That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:16
And of his fulness have we all received, and grace for grace.

John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

To repeat, I loved what PresbyGirl said in your Topic, Love and Compassion, where she said that Jesus was truth and grace. Truthmust be presented together with grace.

I know you are truthful, aiopj, but you need to shine your gracefulness up a bit more. Even PresbyGirl said she was "with Eden on that". And isn't she insightful?

May God help us to love each other, plus learn and tell the truth,
Eden
"Jesus died on calvary, so the whole wide world could see"

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aiopj
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
How do I test the spirits? By seeing what kind of answers people give to Bible Topics when I talk to them, in person or on the Internet. That's how I can tell what kind of person I am dealing with.

You say that you see and talk and can tell.

So, what's the standard when you test the spirits, to see whether they are godly? By what do you measure what they write, alleging to be godly?

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Eden
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ok, fair enough. How do I test the spirits? By seeing what kind of answers people give to Bible Topics when I talk to them, in person or on the Internet. That's how I can tell what kind of person I am dealing with?

Eden

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aiopj
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
So, how do we test the spirits?

Is there an echo in here?

I asked first.

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Eden
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Hi, aiopj. You said: "So, what's the method {to test the spirits}? How do we do it?"

Eden here: So, how do we test the spirits?

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aiopj
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The very Word of God tells those who are truly born again to put the spirits through their paces:

quote:
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
By the very Word, you will offend. People will get mad at you because of Him.

So, what's the method? How do we do it?

How are you testing the spirits, to see whether they are godly?

Are you holding back, worried that, if you challenge somebody, they will get angry with you and accuse you of not loving them, even though declaring the Word is the ultimate form of biblical love?

Are you more worried about showing worldly love rather than godly love?

Is your fear of angry retribution more important than God and doing His work?

Do they and your fear have more power over you than God?

Are you afraid to step out in faith that, even though they get mad at you, God will work through you?

Who gave you that spirit of fear?

How can you "do well" if fear hinders you?

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