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Author
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Topic: Should there be more discussion about how to handle unbelievers?
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Kwistina
Advanced Member
Member # 6618
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posted
I wish to clarify something. I previously stated that I did not want to "cause greivances", which might be mistaken for people pleasing.
I confess, am one of the afflicted. I have the PPD "people pleasing disease"!
But I don't feel the desire to please people is a sin unless it takes greater priority than God's will, which I don't feel it does for me. For those who have an aversion for feeling I have this to say: you wish to be an effective evangelist, do you not? You feel this is God's will, and shows love. I agree. However, if you willfully step on the feelings of others and believe this is love, you are gravely mistaken. Think of it this way. Take out the inclusion of "consideration for the feelings of others" and substitute it for "consideration for the feelings of others creates in them a feeling of respect=it attracts their attention=they will listen=they will consider what you say because of the respect they have for you (especially seeing as how you have proven your respect for them)=they might possibly even convert". This is effective evangelism. It isn't so much that this is placing people's feelings above God's mission, it's a matter of fulfilling God's mission by appealing to people's feelings.
Aiopj, is your ministry effective? Is it bearing fruit? You will disagree with me here, but it is more than obvious that your contempt for the feelings of others has created a chasm between you and them. And while you may say that man's respect does not matter in light of God's view of you (which is my motto as well, God's opinion is the only one I value), you dishonor him by disregarding the one thing that could vastly improve your performance in ministry and your effectiveness in communication.
Have you seen the movie "I, Robot"? The whole point at the end is that we are humans. What separates us from atomatons is our heart, which is very much related to our feelings. I do not intend to disrespect or offend you. Much of what you say is scripturally accurate and valid. But you come across like Vikki in the movie-you have no heart. What you deem as "love" (i.e. Vikki capturing the city for their own good) is just the opposite and because of what I believe is your misunderstanding of the love of Christ, you are coming across as harsh, judgemental, arrogant, and offensive. I am sorry myself to come across so hard, but I feel it is necessary. You have much to offer!! I feel you have a very good handle on scripture. However, you are not being very effective IMO.
Posts: 38 | From: Kansas City | Registered: Jun 2007
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Kwistina
Advanced Member
Member # 6618
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posted
aiopj: You do ask a valid question, if not lacking in a little tact!! (for example, we do not "handle" unbelievers, but I know what you mean, therefore I do not take offense and sincerely hope you do not take offense that I critisize your use of language).
How to approach an unbeliever in Christ. Perhaps we should start with our own experiences. Aiopj, how many unbelievers do you know, and what has your experience with them been?
For my part, everyone I know is aware of my faith due to a very interesting reason. I wear a purity ring. Naturally people assume I am married, and while correcting them I bring up my faith and discussions naturally follow.
I am by no means eloquent or intellectually capable of adequately discussing this topic to the extent it deserves. But I will say this: you can be a virtual encyclopedia of bible facts and knowledge, have all the wisdom of the world. Yet "without love . . . (I Cor 13)", nothing you say will make any difference. You may be eloquent, speak of Christ with such fervor and passion, but if you lack truly sincere love for the object of your discourse, they will sense it, and reject what you have to say merely due to your abject humanity.
You must prove you are human. That you, too, have faults and problems. And that, in spite of it all, your basis for survival is your faith. It is by no means a rulebook, but this is the guide I live by. I am not an effective evangelist becuase I am afraid of causing great greivances, but it is something the Lord and I are working on. But my main motivation is the love I have for others. If I "handle" nonbelievers, I attempt to do so with Love, and pray that it comes across as genuine and sincere.
Posts: 38 | From: Kansas City | Registered: Jun 2007
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
So Eden are you... BORN AGAIN BA?
My ole buddy.. ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
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posted
I've been reading the various topics on this forum for several years now, and I've seen a lot of participants quote hundreds of verses from the Bible in their comments and responses to each other.
In regard to this topic of "handling unbelievers", I would like to see someone give an articulate statement regarding the identity and mission of Jesus that would impress any "unbeliver". I don't think that anyone can do it unless his/her words are anointed by the Holy Spirit in ways that enable them and their true wisdom to break through the "foolishness" of any viewers unbelief.
Apologic debates and detailed discusssions regarding various theological points about the trinity, who is saved or not saved, or what certain texts of Scripture really mean or teach isn't going to impress most "unbelivers". There are a lot of words exchanged in this forum, but I don't see a lot of individuals being changed through them. I have the impression that most "unbelievers" who come to this forum are either confused by our various topical discussions or offended by them. I don't think that many, if any, are changed by our "witnessing" to God's glory in Jesus, the Christ. I hope that my point is clear.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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Joy2Tworld
Advanced Member
Member # 6764
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posted
There should be a discusion on this topic, because i always find it hard to start a conversaton off about my faith, all though on friday somebody asked what i was doing tonight, i answered im going to my church meeting. I think i did well there, Jesus thinks so too. I can talk to people on the net better. But would love to get over the fear.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Sep 2007
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aiopj
Advanced Member
Member # 6768
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
It is my experience that if a person is willing to say with the mouth that he is “born again”, in my opinion only people who are real believers would even consider saying something like that. I have never met a person who says “I am born again” who does not also mean it and therefore they ARE bornagain. ALL the people whom I have ever met who say, “I am born again” ARE bornagain.
So, aiopj, let me repeat what you said:
“Not all who say they are born again are born again.”
I reiterate it:
quote:
Rom 9:6 ...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel...
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
How many people have you personally known who you have heard say, “I am born again” but who are in fact “not born again”? I personally don’t know ANY.
Having, myself, tested the spirits, I can say there are far too many.
After all, God, Himself, says that only few will find the narrow gate, that not all those who say, "Lord, Lord," will go to the Father.
So, too, does He say that faith without works is dead. In other words, saying that you are faithful does not make you faithful.
Certainly, out of the abundance of your heart, your mouth speaks. Your heart may be abundant with the Word. However, again, without the kind of works that comes from that faith, faith is dead.
Posts: 114 | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, aiopj. You said to Eden: “Not all who say they are born again are born again.”
Eden here: Really? It is my experience that if a person is willing to say with the mouth that he is “born again”, in my opinion only people who are real believers would even consider saying something like that. I have never met a person who says “I am born again” who does not also mean it and therefore they ARE bornagain. ALL the people whom I have ever met who say, “I am born again” ARE bornagain.
So, aiopj, let me repeat what you said:
“Not all who say they are born again are born again.”
How many people have you personally known who you have heard say, “I am born again” but who are in fact “not born again”? I personally don’t know ANY.
Thanks, Eden
"I worship Him"
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aiopj
Advanced Member
Member # 6768
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posted
quote:
Matthew 9:37
Then said He to His disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the laborers are few.
The laborers are few because those who say they are laborers also say that they are too busy to be laborers, that there is no time, not knowing that time doesn't find them, rather they find time; and, so, they let the others do the work.
Posts: 114 | Registered: Sep 2007
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aiopj
Advanced Member
Member # 6768
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
I am assuming that you are talking about householders who are Christians, not fulltime evangelists?
All those who are truly born again have the same Truth before them.
All those who are truly born again have the same Mission before them.
To whom much is given, much is required.
To whom little is given, little is required.
It works the other way, too:
Of whom little is required, little is given.
Not all who say they are born again are born again.
Posts: 114 | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Ideally, there should be a lot more discussion about all aspects of Christianity and in its dealings with the world and with unbelievers.
But it all takes Christian workers. And who is working in the vineyard of the Lord?
Matthew 9:37
Then said He to His disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the laborers are few.
There could always be more Christian workers than there are, and there could be more discussion of how to handle unbelievers.
How do I handle unbelievers? That depends on the circumstances. How did the unbeliever respond? In what context did I end up saying something about Jesus to him or her? And so on.
I am assuming that you are talking about householders who are Christians, not fulltime evangelists?
Eden
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aiopj
Advanced Member
Member # 6768
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
I don't know, aiopj, should there be more discussion about how to handle unbelievers?
You don't know????
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Since you obviously think that there should be such a discussion, why don't you start the discussion?
Uhhhh, I think I did.
Why don't you just answer the questions I asked?
Posts: 114 | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
aiopj said in another Topic: "Shouldn't there be more discussion about how to handle unbelievers?"
Eden here:
I don't know, aiopj, should there be more discussion about how to handle unbelievers? Since you obviously think that there should be such a discussion, why don't you start the discussion?
Obviously YOU know something about the subject, so why don't you teach us what you know, if anything?
What does such a discussion consist of?
with love, Eden
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