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Author
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Topic: Adam got to do some choosing of his own
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aiopj
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Member # 6768
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
[QB] aiopj said, "The discussions seem to be focused on what men think, not what God thinks."
Eden here: Okay. So how did God think He was going to feed all these multiplied children of Adam and Eve who had spread into the earth from the garden, as God had commanded Adam and Eve to do?
Irrelevant.
Those details are not mine to know. He knows. He did it. That's all I need to know.
He said it. I believe it. That settles it.
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
[QB] There was only ONE tree of life, right, in the garden, and there were NO trees of life OUTSIDE the garden, or is were there?
Irrelevant.
What matters is that God worked it out. That's all I need to know.
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
[QB] What provision had God made for that eventually, if Adam and Eve HAD obeyed.
Irrelevant. I don't care.
Those are what the Word calls, "foolish questions." They don't contribute in any way to the Knowledge, Understanding/Comprehension of the Word of Truth. Those questions and issues have nothing to do with the spiritual journey. They are the result of men's reasoning and are an attempt to add to and manipulate the Word of God.
The only reasoning those who are truly born again are to do with God is by Scripture upon Scripture, precept upon precept.
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Eden
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posted
aiopj said, "The discussions seem to be focused on what men think, not what God thinks."
Eden here: Okay. So how did God think He was going to feed all these multiplied children of Adam and Eve who had spread into the earth from the garden, as God had commanded Adam and Eve to do? There was only ONE tree of life, right, in the garden, and there were NO trees of life OUTSIDE the garden, or is were there? What provision had God made for that eventually, if Adam and Eve HAD obeyed.
with love, Eden
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aiopj
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by lonlesol:
Speculating with what if situations brings us nowhere, so we might as well stick with what was written in the Bible...right?!... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Right!
The discussions seem to be focused on what men think, not what God thinks.
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Eden
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Hi, lonlesol, yes, at this point it must be speculation, but it should not have to be speculation because God must have also set forth how the multiplied children of Adam and Eve WOULD have fed themselves OUTSIDE the garden.
Because otherwise we would have to say that, eventhough God ordered that Adam and Eve multiply and fill the earth, God never made any provision for that eventuality OUTSIDE the garden, since God's FOREKNOWLEDGE knew that God would not NEED trees like the tree of life OUTSIDE the garden because God knew that Adam and Eve WERE going to sin.
I don't think God was like that, was He? Wouldn't God have honestly made provision in case Adam and Eve chose to remain obedient and did multiply?
May God help us to love each other,
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lonlesol
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Speculating with what if situations brings us nowhere, so we might as well stick with what was written in the Bible...right?!...
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Eden
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Hi, lonlesol. You said:
“For years I thought that the original sin was that Adam and Eve had intercourse...but it was not so...the original sin was that they disobeyed God by eating from the Tree of Knowledge, it had nothing to do with multiplying...”
Eden here:
Another issue is, if Adam and Eve had had children while in the garden of Eden, or thus before the fall into sin, eventually some of the children of Adam and Eve would have had to go live outside the garden of Eden, in order to go “replenish the earth” or at a minimum “fill the earth” and multiply.
But the LORD God created a garden of Eden in the East and put trees in the garden from which Adam and Eve, and their children, were eating.
But eventually the multitude of children of Adam and Eve, if they had not sinned, would have gone outside the garden to “fill the earth” while there was no sin. And while there was no sin, they would have been allowed to eat of the tree of life which was in the midst of the garden.
Assuming no sin ever occurred and the children of Adam and Eve mulitiplied and went out of the garden to fill the earth, the question then is, How could the children of Adam still have eaten of the tree of life once the children of Adam and Eve were filling the earth outside the garden, since there was presumably only one tree of life and that was in the garden. So how could they have eaten of the tree of life outside the garden?
May God help us to love each other,
Eden
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lonlesol
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posted
If only they had shown some remorse and asked God for forgiveness for what they had done, but instead, they each lied to protect themselves by putting their own fault on someone else's...it was in deed the serpent's hypocritical wrong doing but Adam and Even could have at least acknowledge their own fault...
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lonlesol
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posted
quote:
why did Adam and Eve not produce before the fall.
I would tend to think that not enough time went on between God saying this to Adam and Eve, and before the fall...
''27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it......31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.''...Genesis 1:27,28,31
Adam and Eve were told to be fruitful and increase in number on the sixth day...it doesn't say when exactly, but soon after, in Genesis 3, it tells about the fall of man...so it might have been just a few days later?...
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Michael Harrison
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posted
It isn't as though there aren't enough posts here, but i just have to say: Let's talk about Eve.
It doesn't matter whether she ate a bananna, or a garbanzo bean. The fruit didn't make her evil. The decision to eat what God said that she may not, placed her wishes (according to the temptation) above God's. She separated herself from the Holy God by her disobedience. She did what God would not. It was a one-way street. Then Adam succumbed to her beauty, and followed.
They both exaulted their will above God's. Thank you Lord that we have a Jesus. Therefore they became evil in their decision making process. This led to the fig leaf, which is symbolic of the 'system of man' which they used to cover themselves thereafter.
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi lonlesol,
I agree with you that if Adam and Eve had never disobeyed God, and went with each other that we would all be walking around naked right now....lol
But, what I was speculating on was the question of why did Adam and Eve not produce before the fall. Scripture shows the command given before the fall. So did they sin by not having babies too? I think not, but what I do think is that while they were in the garden in close communion with God that they were filled by the presence of God and that there was no real desire to seek additional affection from each other. Hey, I might be wrong about this, that is why I state it as my opinion. The only other thought that comes to my mind is that they went together, but God had not allowed for them to be able to produce....but I dont think so. We cannot underestimate what the feeling would be like to be in Gods presence in the way that Adam and Eve were.
Hopefully, one day we will all know His presence.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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lonlesol
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posted
For years I thought that the original sin was that Adam and Eve had intercourse...but it was not so...the original sin was that they disobeyed God by eating from the Tree of Knowledge, it had nothing to do with multiplying...
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lonlesol
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posted
quote:
if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God, I do not believe it would just be all of humanity walking naked in the garden....lol.
I know how funny it may sound... ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif)
but why not, oneinchrist?...if Adam and Eve had obeyed God their whole life and multiplied like God told them to do, why would humanity not walk around naked?...
Before Adam and Eve ate the apple, they didn't even see that they were naked, there was nothing wrong with walking naked, they noticed it only once they ate the apple, once they disobeyed God...it was not a sin to walk around this way since God created them without clothes on in the first place...
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi Joy2Tworld,
Its nice to meet you.
First of all, I dont think that we would even exist if Adam and Eve had not eaten the forbidden fruit. Let me explain that before anyone jumps to conclusions. We are not told of any children being born to Adam and Eve before the fall despite Gods command to be fruiful and multiply. If I may, I believe that they did not multiply yet because they were fully satistied with Gods presence as He walked with them daily in the garden. So, after the fall, in the absence of fellowship with God, their desire increased towards each other as they multiplied.
So the point that I am trying to make here is that if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God, I do not believe it would just be all of humanity walking naked in the garden....lol.
So even though we all fall under the consequence of Adam and Eves disobedience, with that curse comes a wonderful blessing........life.
with love in Christ, Daniel
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Joy2Tworld
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posted
What if Adam and Eve never ate off that tree. What a different world it would be.
Just a thought.
But God knew what he was doing, and every event in the Bible lead to the birth of Christ, and what we know today.
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aiopj
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
... and not to wallow in the elemental portions of the Word which we have gone over and over already...
In a Bible study a couple of years ago, I pointed out that I noticed that there is no "Praise the Lord!" nor "Thank the Lord!" after a particularly deep Truth of the Lord is read aloud. Like John 3:16.
A woman in the group told me -- told all of us -- that she's been reading the Bible for about 50 years, and that, "I'm tired of It!"
I said, "Excuse me! The Lord didn't quite get that. Repeat that so that He can be clear on where you stand."
After all, in the Garden, God asked Adam, "Where are you?"
My goodness.
Have those who say they are truly born again become tired of the Word of God?
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aiopj
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
I do think that we need to present the Word in a wholesome fashion, like a neatly set table, and encourage babes in Christ to seek more of God and not to wallow in the elemental portions of the Word which we have gone over and over already...
The Word never gets old.
In teaching the "babes," the Holy Spirit brings to our attention new understandings. I know that that's the way it happens with me.
By definition, "babes" don't have a lotta Knowledge -- capitalized to indicate His Knowledge, as opposed to men's puny knowledge.
Those who have Knowledge should not come down to act ignorant just to keep from angering the "babes." It's up to the "babes" to understand that they are where they are cuz they are, as yet, on milk and that they must rise to the occasion and seek increase and excel. They must realize that those who DO know something have something to teach them, and they must be willing to learn. If they shut down, they are as stubborn kids. Unteachable.
I didn't learn what I know by being an unteachable spirit. I watched and listened to others, no matter what their style, trying to get their message of the Message. That's the important part. I know the Message is greater than the person delivering it. The "babes" ought to remember that. The Message is the Message.
Then, after listening to and watching them, I went to the Word to compare what they said and showed to the Word, Itself. That's the method the "babes" should be using, instead of blaming somebody else for trying to teach them.
That's not to put anybody down any more than the Word puts anybody down for bdeing without Knowledge and standing still.
And, that brings up a good point: Sometimes we gotta stand still in order to listen for Him:
quote:
Exo 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
Num 9:8 And Moses said unto them, Stand still, and I will hear what the LORD will command concerning you.
1Sa 12:7 Now therefore stand still, that I may reason with you before the LORD of all the righteous acts of the LORD, which he did to you and to your fathers.
Job 37:14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
Sometimes, though it's difficult, we must be still and listen. Not reading. Not praying. Nothing:
I know of a man who was behind in his reading of the Word to the tune of fifteen chapters.
Hde sat. He opened the Book to the place where he left off some time ago.
He prayed, asking, "Lord, speak to me."
He began reading.
Then, A VOICE! "Just what do you think YOU'RE doing?"
"Uhhh, reading Your Word, Lord," the man said.
"Why?" asked the VOICE.
"Cuz I want You to speak to me."
Then, silence.
See? He didn't listen. He thought that he needed to talk all the time and do all the time. Let the Lord speak, for cryin' out loud!
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
The things you are saying are fine enough, aiopj, but just don’t get off on “oh, I thought this was a study site, let me know if this is a study site, or I’ll leave” kind of statements...
A poster went on a rant to tell me that he/she didn't wanna "argue." Not that I was arguing, rather studying cuz the title of the board concerns study.
I think I made all that clear.
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
just patiently state all the things you know and wish to share, and if someone disagrees with what you said, you patiently continue to teach and state your case, AS IF IT IS a study site, and it is. But, obviously, not everyone knows as much as you do, and that is to be expected, aiopj.
The proper response to not knowing as much as another -- and I don't say that I know all there is to know; there is still WWWWAAAAAYYYY much more to know, more than enough for ten lifetimes -- is to say, "Gee, I'm excited about the Lord and what He's shown others and me, and I wanna know more, that this is the opportunity to know more, to be inspired to dig deeper."
It is not time to say, "Well, that know-it-all is trying to impose on me when I wanna stay right where I am!" cuz that ain't biblical.
We are to try all spirits, to see whether they are of God, and that's what I aims-ta do in the love and compassion I defined elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
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Eden
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Hi, aiopj. You said:
Eden, could you please point to the place in the Word of God where He tells us -- that is, those who are truly born again -- to leave others be, not to say anything to anyone who's been sucking their thumbs and on milk for, say, twenty years and who wants to justify being a babe for another twenty, or thirty, or more years.
Eden here:
I do think that we need to present the Word in a wholesome fashion, like a neatly set table, and encourage babes in Christ to seek more of God and not to wallow in the elemental portions of the Word which we have gone over and over already, as Paul also states in one of his letters.
Hebrews 6
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Though Paul was bold with his teaching, he seems to have mostly also been a gentleman, with patience and love:
1 Thessalonians 5:14
Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
The things you are saying are fine enough, aiopj, but just don’t get off on “oh, I thought this was a study site, let me know if this is a study site, or I’ll leave” kind of statements, but just patiently state all the things you know and wish to share, and if someone disagrees with what you said, you patiently continue to teach and state your case, AS IF IT IS a study site, and it is. But, obviously, not everyone knows as much as you do, and that is to be expected, aiopj.
Love, Eden
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aiopj
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
I think an even GREATER teacher is one who has abundant Word in his heart AND thus in his mouth...who also in love allows others to be at the level that they currently are at...
Eden, could you please point to the place in the Word of God where He tells us -- that is, those who are truly born again -- to leave others be, not to say anything to anyone who's been sucking their thumbs and on milk for, say, twenty years and who wants to justify being a babe for another twenty, or thirty, or more years.
Would you please bring to bear the verses, with support in a scriptural line of thought, that tell us not to get the babes angry with us?
As I recall, the Word tells us not to be worried about whether somebody gets angry with us for spreading the Word; we are to do it and let the chips fall where they may.
Please give us a scriptural line of thought, not just one, or two, verses. Give us the support of the one, or two, verses you want to use to prove your point.
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aiopj
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
I agree with you. I was just looking at sin in the context of Genesis. You seem to have made a reference to a New Testament teaching on sin.
God's first mention of "sin":
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Because we have read the Word, we know the story. So, we can take what we know and understand what we could not have understand had we lived it at the time.
So, then, we understand what "sin," is. It is "separation" from God. When Adam and Eve jumped, they were separated from God and Life.
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
By the way, its nice to meet you. Hope we grow in fellowship together.
Good to meet you, too, and I hope so, too.
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aiopj
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
I think an even GREATER teacher is one who has abundant Word in his heart AND thus in his mouth, but who also in love allows others to be at the level that they currently are at...
That's not what the Word -- that is, Jesus -- says. He says we are to help brothers and sisters in the Word be weaned off milk and onto meat.
It's never all right, according to the Word, not to increase, not to excel in the Word, nor to stand by, passively, while others remain on milk.
Out of unselfish concern for the Salvation of others -- that is, "love," the way the Word sees it -- I must, at least, say something. Biblical "love" does not mean "live, and let live."
The Word says that we -- that is, those who are truly born again -- are to seek and to excel, to increase. If others don't accept my Word-based help, they have resolved themselves to strut around Hindrance Mountain.
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Eden
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Hi, aiopj, I think you are a good teacher of the Word of God, meaning that it seems like you have a lot of Word in hour heart so that your mouth speaks abundant Word.
However, I think an even GREATER teacher is one who has abundant Word in his heart AND thus in his mouth, but who also in love allows others to be at the level that they currently are at, without, say, already within a few posts be proclaiming, "okay, this says it is a study board, but hey, some of you sure don't feel like study board so I'll be moving on unless this is a study board..." and so on.
IMO, it would be better to be the great teacher that you probably are of the Word but not getting into "hey now is this a study board or not and if not, hey, I might be moving along because I only do study boards, and you know, if this is not a...." and so on.
Be a good teacher, aiopj, and others will change.
with love thru Him,
Eden
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oneinchrist
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Hi aiopj,
I agree with you. I was just looking at sin in the context of Genesis. You seem to have made a reference to a New Testament teaching on sin.
By the way, its nice to meet you. Hope we grow in fellowship together. With love in Christ, Daniel.
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aiopj
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posted
I'm new here today and, already, I'm taking flak for adhering to the spirit of the title of this particular board.
The title for this particular board is "Bible Topics and Study." It's entirely possible that MY eyes are deceiving me and that that's not what it says. My screen could be out of whack, too. Nevertheless, that's the title I'm seeing, and I've cleaned my glasses and rubbed my eyes to make sure.
Now, if the title doesn't say what I think it says, nor mean what it says, as the words appear, somebody tell me, and I will gladly depart and go study elsewhere, and everybody can sing and praise and thank to their hearts' desire to the exclusion of study.
On the other hand, if this board is all that it's cracked up to be, according to the title, I'll stick around and, maybe, we can all learn something.
However, if somebody -- anybody -- is gonna dress me down for adhering to the spirit of the title of this particular board, I'm not taking that, either, for, if a person is interested only in singing and praising and thanking, that person should go to a thread where that's all there is to the exclusion of study.
If a person won't do that, maybe I should just leave anyway because it's rude to be posting under a title that indicates that this is a place for study and to chastise somebody for trying to study.
Now, I can't help that a person doesn't like what I write. However, that's the way it is with free speech. It invites dispute; but you don't see me insisting that somebody stop posting because I don't like what they write. No, I encourage posters to answer my posts, and I expect them to honor, without discourtesy, my contributions, just as I must honor everybody else's, without discourtesy.
Again, if the balance to be struck is that I must withhold my posts, on this particular study board, to give way only to singing and praising and thanking and worshiping, to the exclusion of study -- given the title of this board -- then I'm outta here. As far as I'm concerned, then, the title is dishonest.
Finally, I'm not stopping anybody from singing and praising and thanking and worshiping, if that's what they want to do. However, the title of this particular board suggests that we are studying, and, if I post study matters, I expect those who just want to sing and praise and thank and worship not to bother me anymore than they want me to bother them, though, if they post messages that make claims, they should expect, in this kind of board, my ideas on what they post. Everybody is entitled to do the same.
If the Devil can squelch study and, thereby, keep people from Knowledge and Understanding and Comprehension and Wisdom, even if it means that people sing and praise and thank and worship God, he -- that is, the Devil -- is happy with that, to keep people from studying and, thereby, keep Knowledge and Understanding and Comprehension and Wisdom from the people.
So, somebody decide. Just don't tell me that this is a study place but not to study.
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aiopj
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Originally posted by corriee:
quote:
I do not want nor like to argue over little words and issues.
You said that God had not given law yet in the Garden.
I wrote that He did.
You answered that you meant The Ten Commandments.
I agreed that God did not give The Ten Commandments in the Garden, though He gave a law to Adam and Eve in the very form that He gave The Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not..."
Now you say I don't understand.
quote:
I will gladly discuss the love and joy of the Lord, but not argue.
This particular board, I thought, is supposed to be a Bible study. I will go on acting as though it is.
Now, it's nice to sing and to praise and to thank, but we're supposed to be studying, too. We're not supposed to be singing and praising and thanking to the exclusion of studying.
quote:
It isn't of God for us to snip and snap at each other this way and I will not do it.
I also wasn't and also won't. Sorry that you take discussion and study as snipping and snapping.
quote:
I cannot help you understand what I was saying.
Oh, well.
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corriee
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posted
you have missed what I was referring to completely, this is so off topic to what I was saying in my original post. I do not
want nor like to argue over little words and
issues. I will gladly discuss the love and joy of the Lord, but not argue.
It isn't of God for us to snip and snap at each other this way and I will not do it.
I cannot help you understand what I was saying.
Sorry, God Bless
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aiopj
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Originally posted by corriee:
quote:
It is the ten commandments I speak of..you know the law, this is the Old Testament we are referring to here after all.
I agree that, in the Garden, He had not yet given The Ten Commandments.
However, He still laid down the Garden law for Man.
If the heart is the Garden -- after all, Jesus said that the Kingdom of Heaven, Which, He said, is within, is as a man throwing a mustard seed, and it grows into a big ol' tree, the Tree of Life -- that law is still law, isn't it? Wouldn't His saying, "Thou shalt not eat of The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" still apply today? Or, are we now free to eat of the TKGE?
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corriee
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posted
My you are a tough one...
It is the ten commandments I speak of..you know the law, this is the Old Testament we are referring to here after all.
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aiopj
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Originally posted by oneinchrist:
»»....and sin leads to death.««
There is sin that leads unto death and sin that leads not unto death.
Those who willfully and continually and continuously sin sin unto death.
Those who are truly born again and who immediately and honestly repent of their mistake, sin not unto death.
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aiopj
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»»It was sin, but not against the law was what I meant to say. There was no law given at this time.««
Well, if "thou shalt not" is not a law, I don't know what is:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
That doesn't sound like a suggestion to me, praise the Lord.
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corriee
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I mis-spoke, and corrected myself. It was sin, but not against the law was what I meant to say.
There was no law given at this time.
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aiopj
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»» Adam could do what ever he wanted to do.««
Had he done, in his own might and knowledge, whatever he wanted to do, he would not have walked with the Lord.
»» The law had not been given therefore there was no transgression. When Adam ate of the Tree of good and evil...««
It is not "The Tree of good and evil."
It is "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil."
»»...he was disobedient, not sinful.««
God gave Adam and Eve His Word, that they should not eat of the TKGE:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Isn't disobedience separation and separation sin?
»» Adam lived in a time of innocence not righteousness.««
Before Adam and Eve jumped, were they not in right standing with God?
»»Think about when Cain slew Able. There was no law against murder.««
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.
You say there was no sin at that time. Now I'm confused.
Gen 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
Isn't the word "slew" another word for "murdered"?
And in :7, doesn't God tell him that not doing well -- that is, ignoring what God says -- opens a person's heart to evil? Isn't that the door to sin?
»» If Adams decision making had progressed so well, it seems strange to me that he would try and hide from God in the garden, or make a fig leaf for covering and God would not notice.««
God noticed.
However, since Adam and Eve chose to go their own way, God, having given Man the dignity of choice, would not stop Man.
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sevenlamps
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Looks like that decision making process went off track when the serpent tempted Eve.And Adam's too. People have wondered about this for a long time. But the serpent knew what he was doing. Women are better listeners than men so it doesn't surprise me that the strategy was to get the woman to listen to him. Their new behavior was a result of their listening to the new inappropriate info from the serpent as well as the knowledge of good and evil obtained from the fruit they ate. What a mess,huh?
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Don't grieve the Holy Spirit
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Eden
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Hi, Caretaker. You said:
“Adam would have been created in his maturity, as was Eve, as a help meet. All of God's creation was in maturity.”
Eden here:
Okay, it is relatively easy to say that “Adam was created I his maturity”, but what is that "maturity" in terms of “decision-making”?
Adam had exercised his decision-making process when Adam named the animals, “and whatsoever he named them, that were their names”, and Adam used his decision-making process to listen to the Holy Spirit and not run his own life by his soul ignoring his spirit.
Caretaker, when you say that “Adam would have been created in his maturity”, that means … what exactly in terms of his ability to exercise his own decision-making processes??
That maturity was Adam born with, for example?
Thanks, Eden
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Caretaker
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God bless;
Adam would have been created in his maturity, as was Eve, as a help meet. All of God's creation was in maturity:
Gen. 1:
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen. 2:
7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8: And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
21: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25: And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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oneinchrist
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Hi Corriee,
Thank you for reminding us that we need to remain teachable. I believe that God connects with us through others who search Him. Yes, I have also struggled with pride and I still keep watch on its deception...it seems that we still can learn so much from each other though...and if it serves to strengthen our convictions in our faith, we have been running the right race. LOL, how old was Adam? good question. I wonder. Sometimes when I read scripture I have those kinds of questions that pop in my head. I had a little baby sister that died at only five months old and I remember my dad saying "I wonder what she would look like in Heaven? would she be young or old?". I sure enjoy these kinds of conversations over the harsh debates that never seem to end. Debates seem to end in so much contention, but these talks let our hope float to the surface and breath freely. There is so much to learn about God. Its nice to fellowship with you and Eden. With love in Christ, Daniel
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corriee
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You are right and I mis-spoke about sin. It was sin when Adam ate of the Tree of Knowledge. Adam was not a glorified gardener, he had tremendous authority given to him. Don't you think Adam was created to rule this earth? He was told to have dominion over it. Man was created to rule the earth. I think he could control nature but he lost all that at the fall. Adam walked with God in the cool of the evening, and I think they talked about the garden. God did not put Adam in the garden and leave him to figure it out himself. God instructed him,taught him, just as He does with us today.
Anyway this is what I think. We should practice walking with God in the cool of the evening more. God has wonderous things to teach us.
When God made Adam, how old was he?
In Christ
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oneinchrist
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....and sin leads to death. But through obedience to the law of life (repent and believe on the Lord Jesus) we may receive eternal life. With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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oneinchrist
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Hi guys,
Interesting topic. It seems at least to me based on the direction that you guys are going with your conversation that disobedience is what birthed sin. Therefore, God cannot be blamed in any way whatsoever for the sin. In fact, to say that God caused sin would be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, right? With love in Christ, Daniel
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Eden
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Hi, corriee. You said,
“Adam could do whatever he wanted to do. The law had not been given therefore there was no transgression. When Adam ate of the Tree of good and evil, he was disobedient, not sinful. Adam lived in a time of innocence not righteousness.”
Eden here:
Yes, Adam was disobedient when Adam ate from the tree of good and evil, but that disobedient also made Adam immediately “sinful”.
After putting the man Adam in the garden, the LORD God said to Adam,
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.
And God added:
Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinns, shall die.
Corriee, you also said:
“Adam could do whatever he wanted to do.”
Eden here:
You mean, from the moment Adam was created or did Adam need to practice the process of decision-making to see what his internal decision-making instrument was capable of?
If at the beginning, all Adam new was this one choice that he had made to listen to and do only what the LORD had said, how could Adam have known what his own decision-making instrument and process was capable of?
Adam had to try it out to find out.
And I would assume that the LORD God had given Adam and Eve the general instruction to dress and keep the garden, but once that instruction had been given, it was probably up to Adam and Eve to decide how they went about dressing and keeping these trees and where to work today, etcetera, without particularly hearing from their spirit what tree they should go to next.
Eden
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corriee
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Adam could do what ever he wanted to do. The law had not been given therefore there was no transgression. When Adam ate of the Tree of good and evil, he was disobedient, not sinful. Adam lived in a time of innocence not righteousness.
Think about when Cain slew Able. There was no law against murder. If Adams decision making had progressed so well, it seems strange to me that he would try and hide from God in the garden, or make a fig leaf for covering and God would not notice.
There was no confession from Adam or Eve. They made a choice and had to pay the price.
Think when Adam left the garden and looked back, there he probably saw the bloody animal used for the sacrifice and the two cheribum around the Tree of Life. Does that remind you of how the Mercy Seat looked later when the Ark of the Covenant was made? Two golden cheribum on either side of the Mercy Seat, where the blood was applied. Do you think Adam saw that? Do you think Adam continued to offer burnt offerings to God at the appointed times? That was what Cain and Able were doing, so yes they did learn. It is all about our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Every word, every page.
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Eden
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When Adam was created, Adam had so far made only one choice: the choice to only listen to and to do what the LORD God said Adam should do and say.
But other than that first obedient choice, Adam had not made any other choices of his own, except for choosing to listen and do only what the Spirit of God said to do and to say to Adam's spirit.
Then God brought this one-choice Adam into the garden of Eden:
Genesis 2:7-9:
7-8 And the LORD God formed man ... and {the LORD God} planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed.
9 And out of the ground the LORD God made to grow every tree that was pleasant to the sight and good for food; and the tree of life also was in the midst of the garden, and also the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man {Adam}, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat, but you shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.”
But sometime after Adam had made the one choice to listen to and do only what the Spirit of God told Adam to do and say, God asked Adam to make his first decisions of his own when the LORD God asked Adam to name the animals:
Genesis 2:19-20:
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and He brought them to Adam to see what he {Adam} would call them; and whatever Adam called every living creature, that became the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all the cattle and to the fowls of the air and to every beast of the field; except for Adam himself there was not yet found a suitable helper.
So now Adam has made a number of choices, but in these choices, Adam was still obedient because the LORD God had asked Adam to name the animals and that whatever Adam would name the animals, that would be the name of them.
But this using of Adam’s own mind must have given Adam some new insight into the capabilities of the decision-making instrument inside of Adam. Adam began to see what his own mind was capable of...
Have a great weekend,
Eden
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