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Author
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Topic: How can sinners ever hope to get to heaven?
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, Primoa1970. You wrote:
<<When a person realizes that he or she is a sinner and in desperate need of a Savior....it is then and only then that they will ask for forgiveness.>>
<<The Holy Spirit has to prompt someone to believe that in the first place.>>
Eden here:
Yes, I think the Holy Spirit IS digging around every human tree by promptings from the grace of God, but at the same time, the TEST which God has chosen also PREDETERMINES WHO IN THE EARTH will be able to accept that TYPE OF TEST.
On the one hand it is as you say, <<when a person realizes that he or she is a sinner>> but the TEST predetermines WHO ON EARTH will be able to accept THAT KIND OF TEST. It is clear even from Jesus’s own statements that MANY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BELIEVE this test and will go in at the door that leads to destruction, while FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT:
Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter you in at the strait {tight, narrow}gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat.
14 Because strait {tight} is the gate and narrow is the way which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
The test God and Jesus used predetermined an EXACT NUMBER of humans only would be able to ask for this forgiveness of sins THROUGH JESUS Christ’s SUFFERING AND DYING on the cross for us.
And, it seems, that part of this ability to BELIEVE in this test of Jesus dying on the cross is predetermined by what kind of family I come from; if I come more a bornagain Christian family I’m more likely to also become a bornagain Christian. If I come from a family of belial (or wicked family), I will be less likely to be able to believe in this test of Jesus. And if I am born as an Islamic believer, I also will have less ability to believe in this test of Jesus.
It’s even interesting to consider that this test of Jesus occurred when the European Latin Romans were in charge of the land of Syria and Lebanon and Israel, so that the news of the test of Jesus went primarily into the EUROPEAN lands first through the EUROPEAN Greeks (who built seaport Alexandria) and the EUROPEAN Romans who built the great military roads connecting their garrisons.
THUS God and Jesus must have known that EUROPE would become the MAIN recipient of the great Christian news of the test of Jesus, rather than Central Asia and the Far East. By having this test of Jesus OCCUR in the Roman period thus further assured WHERE the test of Jesus would MOSTLY OCCUR, in the Americas and in Europe.
So the TEST of Jesus chosen by God and the Son Jesus predetermined that only a certain amount of humans could be saved.
And SECONDLY, WHEN the test of Jesus would be INSERTED into the earth life would FURTHER predetermine which humans would mostly be saved.
So, to repeat what you said, Primoa1970:
<<When a person realizes that he or she is a sinner and in desperate need of a Savior....it is then and only then that they will ask for forgiveness.>>
<<The Holy Spirit has to prompt someone to believe that in the first place.>>
But not everyone can be saved because of what type of test it is. Only FEW will be able to believe THIS test of Jesus dying on the cross on their behalf and that Jesus rose again on the third day:
Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
According to the Bible, most humans will NOT BE ABLE to believe this Jesus test, and God and Jesus MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT IN ADVANCE, and yet they chose this test of Jesus because there was NO BETTER TEST which could accomplish so many things at once: God is still righteous after having said, “the soul that sins, it shall die” in that Jesus died on the cross FOR THEM and also “man’s sins are forgiven” that was also accomplished by the shed blood of Jesus and the suffering of Jesus.
THERE WAS NO OTHER TEST that could DO these two most-important things. But God and Jesus must have known that THIS test, like ANY other test, could ONLY BE BELIEVED by a PREDETERMINED NUMBER OF PEOPLE. But God and Jesus chose this test of Jesus because IT WAS the BEST test available in the earth. And that’s it:
Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; To him who overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; He who overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; To him who overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows except he who receives it.
Ezekiel 3:27
But when I speak with you , I will open your mouth, and you shall say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD; He who hears, let him hear; and he who forbears {to hear}, let him forbear[/b]: for they are a rebellious house.
Mark 4:9
Then he {Jesus} said to them, He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
John 20:29
And Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed: blessed are they who have not seen and yet have believed.
Blessed indeed,
Eden
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, Primoa1970. You wrote:
<<When a person realizes that he or she is a sinner and in desperate need of a Savior....it is then and only then that they will ask for forgiveness.>>
<<The Holy Spirit has to prompt someone to believe that in the first place.>>
Eden here:
Yes, I think the Holy Spirit IS digging around every human tree by promptings from the grace of God, but at the same time, the TEST which God has chosen also PREDETERMINES WHO IN THE EARTH will be able to accept that TYPE OF TEST.
On the one hand it is as you say, <<when a person realizes that he or she is a sinner>> but the TEST predetermines WHO ON EARTH will be able to accept THAT KIND OF TEST. It is clear even from Jesus’s own statements that MANY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BELIEVE this test and will go in at the door that leads to destruction, while FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT:
Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter you in at the strait {tight, narrow}gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat.
14 Because strait {tight} is the gate and narrow is the way which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
The test God and Jesus used predetermined an EXACT NUMBER of humans only would be able to ask for this forgiveness of sins THROUGH JESUS Christ’s SUFFERING AND DYING on the cross for us.
And, it seems, that part of this ability to BELIEVE in this test of Jesus dying on the cross is predetermined by what kind of family I come from; if I come more a bornagain Christian family I’m more likely to also become a bornagain Christian. If I come from a family of belial (or wicked family), I will be less likely to be able to believe in this test of Jesus. And if I am born as an Islamic believer, I also will have less ability to believe in this test of Jesus.
It’s even interesting to consider that this test of Jesus occurred when the European Latin Romans were in charge of the land of Syria and Lebanon and Israel, so that the news of the test of Jesus went primarily into the EUROPEAN lands first through the EUROPEAN Greeks (who built seaport Alexandria) and the EUROPEAN Romans who built the great military roads connecting their garrisons.
THUS God and Jesus must have known that EUROPE would become the MAIN recipient of the great Christian news of the test of Jesus, rather than Central Asia and the Far East. By having this test of Jesus OCCUR in the Roman period thus further assured WHERE the test of Jesus would MOSTLY OCCUR, in the Americas and in Europe.
So the TEST of Jesus chosen by God and the Son Jesus predetermined that only a certain amount of humans could be saved.
And SECONDLY, WHEN the test of Jesus would be INSERTED into the earth life would FURTHER predetermine which humans would mostly be saved.
So, to repeat what you said, Primoa1970:
<<When a person realizes that he or she is a sinner and in desperate need of a Savior....it is then and only then that they will ask for forgiveness.>>
<<The Holy Spirit has to prompt someone to believe that in the first place.>>
But not everyone can be saved because of what type of test it is. Only FEW will be able to believe THIS test of Jesus dying on the cross on their behalf and that Jesus rose again on the third day:
Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
According to the Bible, most humans will NOT BE ABLE to believe this Jesus test, and God and Jesus MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT IN ADVANCE, and yet they chose this test of Jesus because there was NO BETTER TEST which could accomplish so many things at once: God is still righteous after having said, “the soul that sins, it shall die” in that Jesus died on the cross FOR THEM and also “man’s sins are forgiven” that was also accomplished by the shed blood of Jesus and the suffering of Jesus.
THERE WAS NO OTHER TEST that could DO these two most-important things. But God and Jesus must have known that THIS test, like ANY other test, could ONLY BE BELIEVED by a PREDETERMINED NUMBER OF PEOPLE. But God and Jesus chose this test of Jesus because IT WAS the BEST test available in the earth. And that’s it:
Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; To him who overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; He who overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; To him who overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows except he who receives it.
Ezekiel 3:27
But when I speak with you , I will open your mouth, and you shall say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD; He who hears, let him hear; and he who forbears {to hear}, let him forbear[/b]: for they are a rebellious house.
Mark 4:9
Then he {Jesus} said to them, He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
John 20:29
And Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed: blessed are they who have not seen and yet have believed.
Blessed indeed.
Eden
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Primoa1970
Advanced Member
Member # 1016
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posted
When a person realizes that he or she is a sinner and in desperate need of a Savior....it is then and only then that they will ask for forgiveness.
The Holy Spirit has to prompt someone to believe that in the first place.
So....for a sinner to enter the eternal kingdom, repentance is key......by placing your faith and trust in Christ alone for salvation.
Such a big world...so little time to spread the good news.
--------------------
1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Posts: 639 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Feb 2003
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
David says, "how can sinners hope to go to heaven"?
J4Jesus answers:
"yeah through God changing the person."
Eden here: That is not true, J4Jesus. You DO NOT go to heaven by God CHANGING the person, you ONLY GO to heaven by BELIEVING that Jesus died in your place so that you don't have to die.
THAT and ONLY that is how a person goes to heaven. NOT by God changing a person, but by BELIEVING that Jesus died in your place.
And from what I know about you, J4Jesus, you already believe that Jesus died in your place, so YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVEN if you continue to believe that until either the rapture comes or you die, whichever comes first:
John 3:15
That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Got it?
Be blessed and stay saved by continuous believing.
Eden
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J4Jesus
unregistered
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posted
yeah through God changing the person.
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
How can sinners ever hope to get to heaven?
Through Christ! Read Luke 15:11-24 , the story of the Prodigal Son, in connection with John 14:6. Like the sinner, the boy was lost (15:24), ignorant (15:17—“came to himself”), and dead (15:24). But he came to the father! (15:20) He was lost, but Christ is the Way; he was ignorant, but Christ is the Truth; and he was dead (spiritually), but Christ is the Life! And he arrived at the Father’s house when he repented and returned.
Title: Wiersbes Expository Outlines on the New Testament
Author: Wiersbe, Warren W.
For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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