|
Author
|
Topic: Ezra comment & question
|
desertdweller
Advanced Member
Member # 6383
|
posted
Good point about those women and children. There several things going on in the OT that nowadays we just see differently (like all the Kings and their concubines, including David). Many things really do need to be rethought in the light of the NT, and this is a frustration I have with much of Christianity, is that it is still too much in the OT. I don't think life with Christ is easier, just more worthwhile....
DD
Posts: 51 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Primoa1970
Advanced Member
Member # 1016
|
posted
Thank you for your comments (to the both of you).
Even though we now live under grace and not by the Law....this could still make for a very strong case against being unequally yolked with a non-believer....in the marriage sense. I know of a woman in our bible study group who got saved years after she was married. Her husband is not saved....yet. I'm sure that this makes for a very uncomfortable situation in her life. She still loves him unconditionally....because that's what marriage is.....but it must be tough when one half of the marriage is stuck in non-belief and in constant battle with the other half.
But you're right.....I wonder what happened to those wives and children after the fact. It must have been awful to say good bye like that after being together for who knows how long? I can't stand being apart from my wife for more than 9 hours....I couldn't imagine a whole lifetime.
-Primo
--------------------
1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Posts: 639 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hi, desertdweller. You said:
I think the kind of divorce God objects to is to what we see here in the modern world when someone gets bored or it gets difficult because we all have to put up with [one] another's weaknesses. But we are all weak.[/b]
Eden here:
Yes, I do think that the divorce that God objects to is the “I’m bored, therefore I’ll divorce” kind of divorce. While I wrote that, I thought, “You’re bored because you are boring”, and he or she will be glad to be rid of you too.
desertdweller continued:
Maybe the Israelites were not strong enough to marry pagans and maintain their own faith.
Eden here:
I am convinced from Deuteronomy that God was of the opinion that the Israelites had to marry within their own tribe, maybe tribes, lest the inheritance of Israel be transferred to ownership by those who were NOT Israel.
Not only Israelites but NO ONE of the Adamic race was strong enough to marry pagans and maintain their own faith, at least BEFORE access to the Holy Spirit was granted again. Once we have access to the counsel of the Holy Spirit, we ARE encouraged by God through the Spirit and the Word to “marry among the tribes again”, namely to “not be unequally yoked”.
When a young bornagain Christian woman or man marries an unbelieving partner “because they are so much fun and I love him or her”, it will affect the believer. Neither we Christians nor the Israelites could withstand the “equalizing factor” of how character is formed, and in a marriage become a combo of the two characters, for the two shall be one flesh.
Anyway, I do think that the divorce God abhors MOST is the kind you mentioned, desertdweller, namely, Oh, I’m bored….yeah, because YOU are boring dude without God on your side.
Be blessed and saved, everyone, especially you EL3LN3TN.
Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hi, Primoa1970. I was absolutely SHOCKED when I first read that Ezra passage you quoted, and the passage STILL SHOCKS me when I read it, wondering, how could God require this harsh a verdict on the wives and children of those Judahites who had married foreign women and had mixed children.
It shocks me because from what I know of Middle East customs, but also Indian customs and Pakistanic customs, once the virgins had been deflowered, no "man" would want them anymore.
I was just wondering, what happened to those wives and children who had no place to go? That's the part that is shocking about Ezra's verdict and insistence.
What it "Ezra acting out of his own person only" or was God also agreeing with Ezra in this matter?
I mean, I agree that the Judahites should not have married foreign wives again right after having been sold into Babylonian captivity for that very same thing, because Israel WAS supposed to MARRY ONLY WITHIN THEIR TRIBES, lest the INHERITANCE OF THE LORD fall into foreign hands.
But what on earth happened to those women and children? It can't have been good? So I was SHOCKED by what Ezra asked them to.
On the other hand, God can be tough about certain things. God knows, and I know, that CHARACTER can be INFLUENCED BY OTHERS, and if one wants to grow roses, one MUST root out the weeds and continue to root out the weeds, lest the roses are choked and become unfruitful.
So in that regard, God may have been ruthless, knowing that after the Babylonian captivity, the Judahites had AGAIN married foreign wives, again diluting themselves.
But I ached and ache for the women who in good faith married those Judahite men, and never expected anything like THIS to happen. They couldn't GO back home to their parents' house...(cry, cry)...
Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
desertdweller
Advanced Member
Member # 6383
|
posted
I think there are a lot of situations where there ARE shades of gray and sometimes we wish there weren't because it's so much easier if we can memorize the commandments and that's it.
What about a case of abuse, when a parent is abusing a child? Should the abused spouse leave and divorce the other?
I think the kind of divorce God objects to is to what we see here in the modern world when someone gets bored or it gets difficult because we all have to put up with another's weaknesses. But we are all weak. Maybe the Israelites were not strong enough to marry pagans and maintain their own faith. By the time of the NT, there is advice that a devout spouse can lead to the conversion of a non-believer.
Difficult as it may be, there are different situations. We want black and white but the sermon on the mount deals with the heart which is more complex. Jesus grew in wisdom....so should his people, so for us now I wouldn't necessarily try to apply that book to a current marriage.
The best we can do is 'work out our own salvation in fear (awe) and trembling'.
I'm not saying there are is no black and white - just that we may not know what it is for another person. Hard enough to know for myself often.
Blessings.
DD
Posts: 51 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Primoa1970
Advanced Member
Member # 1016
|
posted
In our bible study time, we've been looking at the minor prophet Ezra. An interesting point came up in chapter 10. It actually all starts before this back in chapter 7 when Artaxerxes (think I spelled that right) wrote a letter and made a decree that Ezra should go back to Israel and set up the Mosaic system of worship. When Ezra got back after this 900 or so mile journey across the desert, he found many abominations and began to lament and weep.
After some serious prayer time, he pretty much commanded the people who had married foreign wives to put them away (divorce) and their children as well. This is the part that floored me at first......because of that word 'divorce'.
Obviously, we know how God feels about divorce. But this was a unique situation. God, in the past, had told the Israelites specifically not to intermarry with any foreigners or to take any of their plunder and such......He said to wipe them out completely.
By doing these things against the will of God, they were commiting spiritual adultery.....by playing the harlot. The Israelites who had gone back home during the first return from exile were doing this very same thing. Ezra pretty much threatened anyone who would not put away their foreign wife and children with the penalty of death. I view this as God telling the Israelites to 'divorce' themselves from sin.
What are your views on this? I am in no way condoning divorce....we know what Jesus said about the subject in the gospels already.....just wondering if you feel the same as I do about this 'spiritual' divorce.
-Primo
--------------------
1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Posts: 639 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
