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Author
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Topic: Do We Have To Want To Stop?
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Eden
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Many Christians do not realize that there are two parts to Christian faith:
1. I have to have faith that when God says that Jesus died for my sins and that I have remission of sins through the blood shed by Jesus on the cross, when I believe that God is telling the truth about that, then I have faith unto remission of sins.
But having faith for remission of my past sins is only half thee faith story; there is a second half to this faith story.
By faith in the shed blood of Jesus I have receive remission for past sins. That's one half of our Christian faith.
The second half of our Christian faith is that we must also:
2. Have faith or BELIEVE God when God says that "He has crucified my old man with Christ." (Romans 6:6)
Because my old man was crucified with Christ already by God, his body of sin is alread declared dead and crucified. And that frees me from this body of sin,and I gain peace also with myself.
Christ died for my past sins, and God crucified my old man on the cross with Christ. My past sins are paid for, and the sin principle within has been crucified already. Both sides of my first Adamic self have been dealt with.
But when a Christian has believed in the death of Jesus for remission of their sins, such a Christian, if he stops there, has believed only one part of our Christian faith.
Many Christians do NOT UNDERSTAND that they must also believe this SECOND PART of our faith, namely believing for DELLIVERANCE from the sin principle within or the old man, by believing that God has INDEED crucified my old man already on the cross.
When I believed that just I believed for remission of sins, I experienced freedom from this body of sin because God had already crucified my old man, and, a dead man can do nothing, don't you know.
I was free, Romans declared, to be "married to another", where only what happened with That Person would be valued by God, not the sins past, nor the old man's sinful acts which have already been paid for and done away with.
Be blessed.
Eden
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Eden
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At the beginning of our Christian life we are concerned with our doing, not with our being; we are distressed rather by what we have done than by what we are.
We think that if only we could rectify certain things we should be good Christians, and we set out therefore to change our actions. But the result is not what we expected.
We discover to our dismay that it is something more than just a case of trouble on the outside, but that there is in fact more serious trouble on the inside. We try to please the Lord, but we find something within that does not want to please Him.
We try to be humble, but there is something in our very being that refuses to be humble. We try to be loving, but inside we feel most unloving. We smile and try to look very gracious, but inwardly we feel decidedly ungracious.
The more we try to rectify matters on the outside the more we realize how deep-seated the trouble is within. Then we come to the Lord and we say, Ah Lord, I see it now! Not only what I have done is wrong; I am also wrong!
The conclusion of Romans 5:19 is beginning to dawn on us. We are all sinners. We are members of a race of people who are constitutionally other than what God intended us to be.
By the Fall of Adam, a fundamental change took place in the character of Adam whereby he became a sinner, one who constitutionally became unable to please God.
And that family likeness we all share from Adam and it is not merely superficial but extends deep into our own inward character too.
We discover that we are sinners by constitution rather than by action. We are NOT sinners because we sin, but we sin because we ARE sinners.
Or as Romans 5:19 expresses it: “Through the one man’s disobedience the many were MADE (or “constituted” or “also became”) sinners.”
And yes, there are bad sinners and there are better sinners. There are moral sinners and more corrupt sinners; but since we have all come from Adam, we are all alike sinners. When Adam became a sinner, we all became sinners by birth, someone who is constitutionally unable to please God.
When we receive remission for our sins through the shed blood of Christ on the cross, we know only half the story.
God also needs to do something about the "sinner within", about the “old man” inside, who TRIES to please God but finds that he is unable to please God because, in Adam, he is constitutionally a sinner who sins.
The trouble is therefore that even if I try to improve my behavior, I still cannot undo the fact that I am a sinner.
A bad sinner may be able to make himself into a gooder sinner, but he is still through and through a sinner, because he remains a descendant from Adam.
Therefore the Pharisee had it all wrong, when he said, “Lord, I thank You that I’m not like other people: I fast twice a week, and I tithe of all that I have," but the publican had it right when he recognized and acknowledged that he himself was a sinner through and through, and so he did not so much as dare to lift up his eyes but said, “Oh Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.”
So where then is relief found? Thankfully God, in His great wisdom, had not only provided for the forgiveness of our sins through the shed blood of Jesus, but God has used the cross to crucify our old man to the cross with Christ:
Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
What God is saying to us is that God knows that the old man, the sin principle in us which we inherited from Adam, can NEVER PRODUCE ANYTHING GOOD, and so God has already CRUCIFIED our old man too, to the cross of Christ, and therefore as far as God is concerned, the old man no longer counts as if he is still alive.
And how do we receive this promise? By faith. God said it, I believe it, and receive it.
From that point on, God only counts and looks at what the Holy Spirit is able to accomplish in us and through us for the kingdom, whatever that turns out to be.
If the Holy Spirit can get us to read the Word and to pray and to listen to the guidance of the Holy Spirit and thus further the coming kingdom, then we will get a reward.
But all the things of Adam are taken care of: by faith in the blood of Jesus, we have remission of past sins. And by faith that God has crucified our old man to the cross with Christ, we have deliverance from our old man.
The old man in us will continue to do sinful things as long as we live, but God doesn’t even bother to look at him anymore. And neither should we.
The game is over. My sins are forgiven and my old man has been crucified. I finally have peace with God and peace with myself, for both God and I EXPECT that my old man will do sinful things in attitudes and actions, because that's what the old man does, that's what the old man is "good at". I sin because I’m a sinner and not, I am a sinner because I sin.
We must have faith in the blood and we must have faith that our old man has already been crucified.
God said it, and I believe it.
Be blessed,
Eden
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J4Jesus
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posted
exactly!
that's what i've been trying to tell people.
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
The heart of every issue is the issue of the heart! [/b]
The heart of every issue is the issue of the heart!
I just like that statement so I wanted to post it again. You will always do what is in your heart. If you want to watch football, you will watch football. If you want to go snowboarding, you WILL go snowboarding, etc....
So if you love the Lord Jesus, you WILL love the Lord Jesus and it will show.
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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niel
Community Member
Member # 6113
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posted
Thank you QeeunofEnglish I agree with Goodnews this is very good advice.
About ASOS, I am being saved for nearly 40 years and it works form me. If I look back and realize how many times the Holy Spirit picks me up, guided me, encourage and carried me thru my trails and tribulations, I can be nothing as to be thankfull,for what Jesus did for me.
Be blessed
Niel ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
Posts: 14 | From: South Afrika Pretoria | Registered: Sep 2006
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Eden
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Salvation=justification=eternal-life=glorified body.
Salvation is obtained by a continuous, lifelong believing in Jesus's substitutionary work, and this belief must be carried into death.
Once one has obtained salvation thru continous belief, comes the lifelong process of sanctification, which has to do with BEHAVIOR.
With the help of the Holy Spirit, some behavior improvements may occur in our lives, like changes in what interests us. (I didn't like the Bible, now I like the Bible; I didn't praise God before, now I praise Him, and so on.)
But no matter what amount of sanctification we achieve in our lifetime, sanctification cannot UNDO salvation because salvation=justification=eternal-life=glorified body is only obtained through continuous belief in Jesus' substitutionary work.
Do not confuse the two. All the "be you holies" and others like it are part of sanctification, not of salvation which is free:
Romans 5:16
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Sanctification has nothing to do with salvation. No matter how much or how little sanctification we achieve with the help of the Holy Spirit, we remain saved as long as we carry our belief in Jesus's work into death.
1 Corinthians 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Be blessed.
Eden
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becauseHElives
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posted
The heart of every issue is the issue of the heart!
Yahweh alone knows the heart, so why does any individual try to convince someone continually living in sin that because they said a prayer at some point in time they are saved.
The question of “Once Saved Always Saved” will only be answered in eternity.
I can with assurance tell any individual that the only acceptable heart to Yahweh, is a broken and a contrite heart [broken down with sorrow for sin and humbly and thoroughly penitent], such, Yahweh will not turn away.
If you can sin with no conviction and response to the Spirit of Yahweh that is supposed to live in you; you need to do some serious soul searching.
Many will say, Lord, Lord only to hear the words depart from me you lawless one, you worker of iniquity, I never knew you.
These people thought they were Christian, how sad…
Church members in hell because they followed the teaching of men and the tradition of some denominational Church.
"Only ye shall not go very far away" (Exodus 8:28).
This is a crafty word from the Pharaoh. If the poor bondaged Israelites must go out of Egypt, then he bargains with them that it will not be very far away - at least not far enough to escape the terror of his arms and the observation of his spies. After the same fashion, the world would have us be more charitable and not carry matters with too severe a hand. Death to the world and burial with Christ are experiences which carnal minds treat with ridicule. Worldly wisdom recommends the path of compromise and talks of moderation. According to this carnal policy, purity is admitted to be very desirable, but we are warned against being too precise. Truth is of course to be followed, but error is not to be severely denounced. "Yes," says the world, "be spiritually minded by all means, but do not deny yourself a little frivolity. What's the good of criticizing something when it is so fashionable and everybody does it?" Multitudes of professing Christians yield to this cunning advice to their own eternal ruin. If we would follow the Lord wholly, we must go right away into the wilderness and leave the carnal world behind us. We must leave its maxims, pleasures, and religion and go far away to the place where the Lord calls His sanctified ones. When the town is on fire, our house cannot be too far from the flames. To all true believers, let the trumpet call be sounded,
"Come ye out from among them; be ye separate" (2 Corinthians 6:17).
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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QueenofEnglish
New Member
Member # 6282
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posted
Bandit,
I have read your posts and found that you seem to be quite mature in your Christian responses. Let's just leave it that we are on opposite sides of the eternal security issue. I will not say that I believe once saved always saved, but I do believe once saved always changed. I do not believe you can live however you want once you are saved. I believe that once you are TRULY saved you will be convicted when you sin. That will not allow you to continue to sin. I do believe, however, that once you are truly saved, you are saved, but I do not want to argue the point because I know GOOD folks often disagree on this point. Let's just agree that we disagree.
Posts: 6 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2006
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Bandit
Advanced Member
Member # 3643
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quote:
Originally posted by QueenofEnglish:
Here is the simplest way to explain it, I believe. If you are saved, you are God's child--no matter what...
Such advice may be well-intentioned, but it is biblically incorrect. Biblical warnings stand in stark contrast to such claims. Now I don't want this to turn into an eternal security debate, but to tell someone who is struggling with serious sin issues that they will remain a child of God (remain saved) no matter how they live is a very dangerous false doctrine to promote.
Sincerely,
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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KnowHim
Admin
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We are either saved and know Jesus Christ or we don't. Anyone that knows Jesus does not WANT to do anything to cause Him pain.
It is not easy to be a Christian and the bible never says it is. It is hard to be a Christian and one must be tougher to be one then not. You have to learn to say no because you have come to know Jesus and you don't want to hurt Him because you know Him. But if you only know about Him you really don't care what He thinks. If we get close to Jesus then we will start wanting to please Him at all costs. The only way to know Him is to obey Him and read His word and spend time with Him. When one spends time with Jesus others can tell because it changes you and the things you once wanted to do you don't want to anymore. So if you don't want to like the things that are done in darkness, then get closer to the light which is Jesus Christ.
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. Acts 4:13 (KJV)
Seeking to be closer to Jesus it the only way to overcome sin. Also when you spend time with Jesus, not only will you know it, others will know also.
"We know that we have come to know Him if we obey his commands. The man who says, 'I know him' but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in Him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in Him. This is how we know that we are in him: Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did." (2:3-6)
If we don't obey the Lord, we don't belong to Him; our obedience is the proof that our faith is real. The famous Apostle Paul said that he would preach that people needed to "prove their repentance by their deeds." He also spoke of the "obedience that comes from faith."
True faith always results in a change of lifestyle. A person who previously was walking in darkness, away from God, changes direction and begins a new type of living. They may not do everything perfectly, but their desire is to learn how to obey Jesus and the begin to do so.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Good NewsforAll
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Member # 6156
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posted
Welcome QueenofEnglish. You give wise advice. ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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QueenofEnglish
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RE: So change what you can change, but if you try to change things you actually LIKE to do, you will become a miserable Christian because no sooner have you made a resolution not to do it anymore and there you go ahead and do it again because you like it.
Please be careful about taking advice like that. People ENJOY all kinds of sick, sinful behavior. That doesn't mean they shouldn't fight to stop. That is why self-control is one of the fruits of the spirit. We have to CONTROL ourselves. We are not animals that act on every impulse. We do everything we can to control ourselves. If you struggle with porn, unplug your computer or whatever your media choice is. Choose another activity--read your Bible, call a friend, go for a walk. I am not a expert on porn, but I do know that all addictive behavior can be modified. You may not be able to do it alone. You may need help from a counselor or your pastor or an accountability partner, but do NOT give in and say I enjoy it so it is too hard to stop. In difficulty lies opportunity to glorify God. He sees your struggle and is waiting for you to throw yourself at His feet. Be blessed.
Posts: 6 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2006
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QueenofEnglish
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Here is the simplest way to explain it, I believe. If you are saved, you are God's child--no matter what, but you can either please Him with your life or sadden Him. Which do you choose?
Of course we will always be sinful, but as we walk closer to Jesus we should find emulating Him easier. Conviction--not condemnation--is our proof that we are His child. He corrects those He loves. The Holy Spirit is telling you that porn is wrong, or you would not be here asking about it. We can't use God's forgiveness as an excuse to sin because sin should make us sick as we get closer to God. He can't stand it, and we want our nature's to be more like His. Our journey in life is a constant struggle to be better for God--we want to please Him. If I never felt convicted, I would worry about my salvation. I don't think one can be saved and not feel conviction. If we love Him, we will listen to His calling. You know He is calling you to stop--not in your strength, but in His. The harder the struggle is for you, the greater His victory will be when you can tell us all that you stopped looking at porn because Jesus carried you through your desires and led you to a healthier life.
Posts: 6 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2006
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Eden
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posted
The blood of Jesus has a 3-fold purpose:
First, the blood of Jesus is for God: "When I see the blood, I will pass over.
Second, the blood of Jesus is for us sinners: "remission of sins" for "I have sinned".
Third, the blood of Jesus is to deal with Satan: "You have sinned", but Satan, "look at who has died for his sins".
Many Christians don't value the blood of Jesus enough. But God is satisfied with the blood-for-our-sins of Jesus.
The way we know that God is satisfied with the blood-for-our-sins, after Jesus took His Own Blood into heaven, to present His Own Blood to God, God poured out the Holy Spirit.
This outpouring of the Holy Spirit signified that God was satisfied with the blood of Jesus for the remission of sins past.
And to deal with the rest of the sins that the sin nature in our members would commit after that, God crucified the old man (the sin nature in our members) with Christ.
Now God looks only at one thing: Christ Jesus doing IN us through the Holy Spirit. Everything else of the first Adam has been paid for, dealt with, and done away with, as being, beyond repair.
God is next starting with a new creature, emanating out of the second AND last Adam, which is Jesus Christ:
1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
We bornagain, justified Christians will be made a quickening spirit in this last or second Adam, and the first Adam will be remembered no more.
Be blessed, everyone
Eden
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Smiley07
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Member # 6277
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posted
I was just thinking about how the Apostle Paul said of himself: What i want to do, i don't do, what i don't want to do, i end up doing. Even he experienced the turmoil between spirit/heart & flesh/sin. I like to think of that & his determination to look toward the mark of the high calling, to run his race, to not look back at his mistakes, but to learn from them, & keep pressing foward. Just something i was thinking of while I was reading about your conflict. I think we all wrestle with conflict between spirit/heart, and flesh in some fashion or another.
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J4Jesus
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posted
who here is saying that we are not supposed to live for God?
nobody is saying we should sin on purpose but what they are saying is that there are those sins that are gonna be more difficult than others to finally quit, in fact, one may never fully quit.
as long as one loves Jesus, it's all good.
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Bandit
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quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
well please Enlighten us Bandit, what is missing? Can you even tell us?
Perhaps you could go back to your other thread titled, "How Long Must You Resist?", and address my last post there. Self control (proper moral conduct) is an important part of the faith as stated by Paul. There seem to be some here who downplay the need for moral uprightness.
Bandit
P.S. It is not a matter of whether or not I can tell you, but more a question of whether or not you will hear.
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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J4Jesus
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posted
well please Enlighten us Bandit, what is missing?
can you even tell us?
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Bandit
Advanced Member
Member # 3643
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
bandit, what are you talking about?
ungodly advice?
Any talk which tries to seperate salvation from how one lives is both misguided and ungodly. You have gotten a very mixed bag of advice recently. Not all of it is biblically correct - even though it may have been offered with much scriptural "backing".
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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J4Jesus
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bandit, what are you talking about?
ungodly advice?
Eden has used nothing but Biblical advice.
OBVIOUSLY he knows that we also ACCEPT that Jesus did all that.
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Bandit
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
...But one thing you CAN make sure, and that is your salvatin, which IS ONLY DEPENDENT on Jesus dying on your behalf so you won't have to die for your sins...
Oh, brother! I doubt any more ungodly advice than this could have been offered.
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
Brother, ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
There is no way that your life can be completely free of sin on this side of Heaven. All believers will be completely sin-free upon entering Heaven, but this won’t be because of what we do or don't do. It will be because of what God does in us. "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful" (Rev. 21:27).
God calls us to rid our lives of sin. We are to live in a way that is pleasing to Him, casting off as much of the world as we possibly can. "Let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles" (Heb. 12:1). If we could possibly be completely sin-free, then Jesus would not have had to come and give His life as the penalty for our sin. But He did, in fact, need to be the perfect sacrifice for our sins so that we, through Him, could have eternal life.
If your desire is to please the Lord and to live for Him, then He will guide your steps away from sin through convictions brought into your heart by the Holy Spirit. Speaking about the Holy Spirit, in John 16:8, Jesus said, "When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment." Just seek the guidance of the Lord and pray for Him to give you the strength to cast off your worldly desires and the sin that so easily entangles you.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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J4Jesus
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well i tell ya man, there are some things that are just too hard and even now, i'm feeling sick.
i ate so much food and ate so much sin.
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Eden
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Hi, J4Jesus, you said to Eden:
If what you say is true, then how come there are so many references in the NEW TESTAMENT about NOT SINNING, STOP SINNING, etc...
From Jesus and definitely Paul.
Eden here:
The woman had committed adultery, which in Old Testament times was punishable by death by stoning. In this case, she was a most fortunate woman to be brought to Jesus, who rescued her by pointing out to ALL her accusers that they were equally with hidden sins, and one by one her accusers left.
Then Jesus said, “go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you.”
I’m assuming that what Jesus meant was that “the next time I’m not around and the worse thing that will befall you next time, if you commit adultery again, is that you will get stoned to death.”
As for Paul, yes, I think whenever he and John was saying “do not sin”, they are saying that we should seek to please the LORD and live peaceably with our fellow men, but that this can only be done on a “as much as in you” basis:
Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.
Likewise Jesus said:
Mark 4:33
And with many such parables spoke He the word to them, as they were able to hear it.
Matthew 19:12
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
Each bornagain Christian comes from a different family background. Some come from loving Christian families and the habits that they have are different from someone who is born again from an atheist unbelieving family. But even from them, some families are fairly nice and loving and affirming.
But there are other families who are totally dysfunctional and abusive and violent atmosphere, and a son or daughters becomes a bornagain Christian out of THIS family, or numerous variations thereof, and the habits that THEY have acquired by the time they became bornagain will vary considerably from the habits already instilled in a bornagain son or daughter born to bornagain Christian parents.
But even with bornagain Christian parents, it often happens that for a while the family’s teenager or teenagers rebel and “want to experience the world” and they acquire habits, and then they become bornagain Christians.
So “sin no more” is the motto, as God says, be you holy, like I am holy”.
But “holy” means “be set apart”, or “set yourselves apart”, and “be a peculiar people who love the Bible”, and “be a set-apart people who believe that the death of Jesus on the cross means that they don’t have to die anymore” and “go and sin no more”.
But because we come from so many different backgrounds, it is also:
Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.
And also:
Matthew 11:15
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
And note what Paul had to say to the Corinthian Christians, a rowdy bunch in a Greek sailor’s town:
1 Corinthians 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for until now you were not able to bear it, and neither are you now yet able.
But, thanks be to God, our salvation, thru which we receive our free glorified body, is NOT dependent on how much we succeed in “setting ourselves apart unto God” in this FIRST Adamic life. God will be pleased with what we can do, but our salvation, or receiving the glorified body, is NOT DEPENDENT on how well we did in this first Adamic life.
For salvation, the only thing that matters to God is: did you accept the death of Jesus so that you don’t have to die for your own sins?
Since in the eyes of God we are ALL EQUAL SINNERS, God has decided to give a glorified body and free entrance into the world to come to anyone who accepts that Jesus suffered and died on MY behalf on the cross. God will give a free glorified body to ANYBODY who BELIEVES that sincerely and in truth and CONTINUES to believe that right into death. That person receives a free glorified body.
Once saved, then there is sanctification, which operates on the principle of:
Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.
And on:
Matthew 11:15
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
And on:
1 Corinthians 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for until now you were not able to bear it, and neither are you now yet able.
I assume, J4Jesus, that the MAIN THING that you are interested in is RECEIVING A GLORIFIED BODY and MAKING IT INTO THE KINGDOM, right?
With our behavior we can try, as much as is in us, to please God in this natural body, but that receiving a glorified body is only received through the work that Jesus did on the cross when Jesus said, “It is finished.”
Debt paid, 100% cancelled out. God appreciated what you were able to do, but it won’t come up as a question when it comes time to hand out salvation or glorified bodies. Then it only matters whether I accepted Jesus’s sacrifice, or not.
But I can tell you, J4Jesus, that even a cleaned-up FIRST Adam has a righteousness of filthy rags compared to Jesus:
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
"Go and sin no more"? Nice, but still a first Adam. Not a glorified body. Not even close. A glorified body will be a trillion times better, even than a "cleaned-up first Adam".
Be blessed, J4Jesus. The main thing is, Do you have salvation? If so, start rejoicing that you have somehow been chosen. Then, set apart unto the LORD what you are able and want to set apart unto the LORD. But you're still a 100% first Adam, which does not even COME close to the glory of a glorified body.
Salvatin can be compared to a cake and sanctification can be compared to the icingt on the cake. The main thing is the cake, without which icing on the cake would not exist. Sanctifiation is nice, but the icing is NOT the cake. It is something ADDED to the cake once the cake exists.
Be blessed.
Eden
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J4Jesus
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yes, this morning I had a thought about lust/porn and I knew I'd never be able to quit on my own now.
Eden, when did you get this Revelation from God about all this?
If what you say is true, then how come there are so many references in the NEW TESTAMENT about NOT SINNING, STOP SINNING, etc...
From Jesus and definately Paul.
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Eden
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Hi, J4Jesus, you said something like: It's not salvation that I'm worried about, it's sanctification.
Eden here:
That's good, because salvation means you get your glorified body, guaranteed. Sanctification has to do with rewards.
Salvation means you will get your glorified body and at least be "among the least in the kingdom of heaven", but have a body with capabilities that Jesus had while on earth, with the mind of Christ which ISN'T into lust, which ISN'T into cursing, or whatever.
You may be able to clean yourself up to some extent by being washed with new words and new ideas and faith in God as described in the Word of God, extending mercy, forgiveness, patience, and much more, but none of our natural body "perfections" will even come close to what our free glorified bodies will look like.
So change what you can change, but if you try to change things you actually LIKE to do, you will become a miserable Christian because no sooner have you made a resolution not to do it anymore and there you go ahead and do it again because you like it.
Victory, defeat, guilt, victory, defeat, guilt, victory, defeat, guilt, over and over and over, year in year out.
Finally the Lord showed me that I was dead in Christ and that dead men cannot do anything and I ceased from my own works:
With the mind I can serve the Lord, but with the body I serve sin (the things I cannot seem to change). Note what Paul said:
Romans 7
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh {I serve} the law of sin.[/b]
With my mind, I thank God and praise God for the wonderful salvation He has provided for me. With my mind, I can study His Word and rejoice in Him and love Him for His daily wise counsel through the Holy Spirit, and think of Him and love Him.
But when I'm not doing that, I find that with the flesh I serve the law of sin:
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I want to do, that I don't do; but what I hate to do, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I don't want to do, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I cannot find.
Finally, I got relief when I ceased trying to fix myself to be pleasing to God:
I realized that Jesus died for that sin in my members which I don't know how to NOT do.
Hebrews 4:10
For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
We try to walk in newness of life. But what we cannot change is buried wtih Christ. Jesus died for the sins of our old man.
Romans 6
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Jesus died for our sins. In God's eyes, we are actually dead and hence freed from sin.
We still walk around alive because Jesus died in our place, and God gives us the Holy Spirit to help us and to give us a desire to read His Word and to pray and to listen to God's music and sing praises to Him and be thankful, in short, to live life more abundantly.
In God's mind, the old man is dead so long as we accept Jesus on our behalf.
For the rest, sanctify what you can sanctify and your flesh will do what it likes to do. If you are going to fight that which you can't seem to sanctify now and possibly never, you will become an unhappy Christian and useful to know one.
Remember, God is NOT saving you because you are so good, but God is saving you because you are so bad. And not just you are bad, but everyone is bad. God wants you to do what you can, but God is fully aware of your badness:
Romans 8:21
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
1 Corinthians 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.
Even after we have "cleaned ourselves up a bit", in the end it is still nothing more than corruption that needs to be raised with incorruption.
You have salvation by believing in Jesus; that means you will receive a glorified body. What you can achieve in sanctification is gravy on the mash potatoes.
Even if you have almost no gravy or sanctification, you still have mashed potatoes, or salvation, meaning a glorified body, freely given to you.
If you work for the kingdom, like preach on the Internet, speak up for Jesus's resurrection and coming again, read His Word so that He can use you for some projects, then you will receive rewards, you will be a profitable servant.
What behavior modifications you are capable of making with the help of the Holy Spirit counseling you, so be it. But if you are going to fret over what you can't seem to fix you will be an unhappy Christian, and that's not good either.
There is only rest when you finally say to God, God, I can't fix this or that, and unless You fix them, I'm going to enjoy them", then you will have rest.
Otherwise you will be frustrated, unhappy Christian. I know, I was an unhappy Christian until I gave up.
When I realized I was dead and buried with Christ, I gave up trying to change myself because a dead man cannot do anything, for good or for bad.
And then I actually found rest in Christ, knowing that He had died for everything that I am and also for the things that I cannot seem to change.
And so with the mind I serve the Lord the best I can, but with the flesh I still often serve the law of sin, from attitudes to actions.
Be blessed.
Eden
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J4Jesus
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true but it's not salvation that i'm worried about but the sanctification.
and again Jesus told the woman caught in adultery "Go But Do No Sin Again."
"Be Therefore Holy Because I Am Holy."
what about those Christians where paul was saying "it is actually reported there is sexual immorality among you and a kind that's not even among the pagans, a man has his father's wife."
?
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Eden
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Do we have to want to stop? Yes.
But the want to stop may or may never come. So what will you do in the meantime while you are waiting for the want to stop to come?
You won't be able to stop if the want to stop has not arribed yet? And who knows if it will come before you die? I don't know, and you don't know.
But one thing you CAN make sure, and that is your salvatin, which IS ONLY DEPENDENT on Jesus dying on your behalf so you won't have to die for your sins.
You're having problems with a particular sin? I don't doubt it. But, thanks be to God, Jesus died FOR ALL OR OUR SINS, that we may be freely be forgiven, for else Jesus would not have needed to suffer and die for us on the cross, right?
J4Jesus, you're doing God a disservice by saying, look God, You and Jesus did a great job with that cross thing, but I need to add a little more to it that You Two did not think of in heaven."
Forget it. ALL your righteousnes is FILTHY now and will basically REMAIN FILTHY TO GOD. Put it away already like your dirty linen. God will ONLY LOOK to see if you accepted Jesus as your Substitute; OTHERWISE YOU MUST DIE.
Do We Have To Want To Stop? Yes. But whether the yes comes or comes not in your lifetime will not prevent you from receiving eternal life. Otherwise Jesus suffered and died in vain.
Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Be saved.
Eden
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
Are we to do this whether we want to or not?
It depends how desperate we are to be assured we will make to heaven.
quote:
But how can one, even a born again person, who doesn't want to do this, DO IT?
How can a person WANT to do it?
It is impossible to make it on our own. Ask God to give you the desire to want to change, and I'm sure He will allow you be brought to the place where you will be so miserable that you will beg Him to cleanse you and purify you from all deeply rooted bondage.
You have to have a battle plan in place to uproot the lusts of the flesh.
Eph. 6: 11 Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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J4Jesus
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Romans 12:1-2
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
And:
Romans 13:12-14
12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
Are we to do this whether we want to or not?
But how can one, even a born again person, who doesn't want to do this, DO IT?
How can a person WANT to do it?
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J4Jesus
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hello.
this may be what I was trying to explain in the other thread.
when a person is born again, the desire for sin remains yes or no? i tend to think yes.
the BACKSLIDERS like me that are mentioned in the Bible are those that didn't fight and just easily followed their desires and didn't even try.
I always say to myself "well if I wanna do something, I'm gonna do it, because that's what makes since."
Jesus told the woman caught in Adultery "Stop Sinning." Did she want to? I dunno.
Paul tells christians how they are to live alot and he tells them "stop this and stop that." The people that want to are good and the people that don't want to are the backsliders.
It seems whether we want to sin or not, resist or not, we are to STOP.
Even if we are MISERABLE.
I am MISERABLE when I'm FIGHTING the urge to look at porn.
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