Christian Chat Network

This version of the message boards has closed.
Please click below to go to the new Christian BBS website.

New Message Boards - Click Here

You can still search for the old message here.

Christian Message Boards


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
| | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Two Minutes With the Bible (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Two Minutes With the Bible
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

Icon 1 posted      Profile for KnowHim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by David:
So you believe everyone has a choice?

Or do you believe the choice of who will go to heaven or who will not go to heaven has already been made in advance?

Linda this was to you. If you not going to answer, just say your not going to answer. Just wanting to know.

[Confused]

Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I have a question that if anyone can answer from scripture will end this discussion.

Where in the scripture does it say when you are Born Again all sin past, present and future are all forgiven, so that any sin commeted after the New Birth you need not ask forgivness for sin again?

It does not say that Dale, but it hardly ends the discussion. The Scripture says this as you well know:

When a man is born again:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Salvation does not free us TO SIN, it frees us from sin. Being free from sin, we are empowered by HIS spirit to walk in holiness and righteousness.


Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 1 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
You see, that is why He sends His Son, that sin will never stop the relationship again.
This is so incorrect!

quote:
For me the gospel is as simple as this, the nearer I move to God the further I move from sin, in fact I work on the relationship and not on sin.

Good statement!

I have a question that if anyone can answer from scripture will end this discussion.

Where in the scripture does it say when you are Born Again all sin past, present and future are all forgiven, so that any sin commeted after the New Birth you need not ask forgivness for sin again?

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
niel
Community Member
Member # 6113

Icon 15 posted      Profile for niel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[clap2] [clap2] Maybe we are so involve with scriptures, to make our statement, that we lose track of the most wonderful and miraculous thing that can ever happened to a human being, our spiritual birth. The fact is that we (those who are born again) who are begotten of Him and not created; we are spirit of His Spirit. Like when I refer to my children flesh of my flesh. Let us move away from sin conscious and the entire if I do this or don’t do that, let us get involve in a relationship with the most wonderful and loving Daddy. If we know a little of the heart of God we will realize He prefer us above the angels, because we are His children (spirit of His Spirit) His Heart is longing for communication with us. You see what happened in the Garden of Eden, God anxiously came down in the evening to communicate with Adam and Eve in the breeze. However, when they sinned and God came down for the walk in the breeze, they was hiding. I believe when God realize that they have sinned, He called Adam with a heart broken voice as if He want to say “why Adam why, I enjoyed your relationship so much, now its gone”. You see, that is why He sends His Son, that sin will never stop the relationship again. For me the gospel is as simple as this, the nearer I move to God the further I move from sin, in fact I work on the relationship and not on sin.
Be blessed
Niel.

Posts: 14 | From: South Afrika Pretoria | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The majority of the New Testament is written to instruct the believer “How to Overcome Sin”, “How to Endure to the End”, How to walk in the Spirit”……

Is this correct?

If Eternal Life has been secured, and the choices I make can not affect my losing “Eternal Life”, then studying the scriptures is a waste of time.

Many of you say after you are saved it’s about rewards, if you are interested in rewards you haven’t meet the same Messiah/Savior/Yeshua/ Jesus I have meet!

2 Timothy 2 KJV
1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

Icon 1 posted      Profile for KnowHim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
The will of man is laid down, when Christ is put on, the will of man is the will of the flesh and we do not please or serve God with our will of our flesh.Eden

The will of man is laid down, when Christ is put on,

Yes WHEN you have decided to take the free gift of salvation provided by our Lord Jesus Christ. Then you will have the power to to serve God.

BUT you had to make a choice to laid your life down and PUT ON Jesus.

Your hand is not forced to do this, you have the choice. We would not have had the choice if Jesus had not laid down His life, but thanks to God, He did and that is the Good News.

I sure do agree with that.

Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

Icon 1 posted      Profile for KnowHim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So you believe everyone has a choice?

Or do you believe the choice of who will go to heaven or who will not go to heaven has already been made in advance?

As what you posted I agree with, and I am not wanting to argue, just like you told Dale. I am just trying to figure out what you are trying to say. I do believe God draws all to Him, but many don't come.

But I believe God lets us make the choice and He does not make us decide either way.

If it has all been decided before hand, then I would not see a reason to evangelize anyone because it has already been decided.


[Smile]

Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good writing, sister helpforhomeschoolers:

The will of man is laid down, when Christ is put on, the will of man is the will of the flesh and we do not please or serve God with our will of our flesh.

Even the decision to lay down my will does not come of my own power, but of HIS grace who has allowed me to see that HE is GOD and HIS will is the only will that is good.. that can benefit.. that is able to be done well.

Be blessed, help.

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
niel
Community Member
Member # 6113

Icon 15 posted      Profile for niel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Smile]
Posts: 14 | From: South Afrika Pretoria | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have been called a Calvinist; but I do not believe that I am one. I agree with you that God does not want robots. I DO NOT agree with Calvin on Limited atonement. I do not see that it is a matter of "free will" as a matter of fact, I believe that "free will" is an oxymoron so to speak.

Here is what I see:

There is man's will and it is contrary to God's will.

There is God's will.

For those who are born again they have surrendered man's will to take for them selves the superior God's will.

This the scripture tells us is not an act of the will of man, but a work of the Holy SPirit:

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

For me, that is in my mind, the issue of free will is not an issue at all, for what good does the will of a dead man do him?

It matters not my will... even in Christ, his human will was contrary to the Father. "Nevertheless NOT my will, but thine be done"


The will of man is laid down, when Christ is put on.. the will of man is the will of the flesh and we do not please or serve God with our will or our flesh.

Even the decision to lay down my will does not come of my own power, but of HIS grace who has allowed me to see that HE is GOD and HIS will the only will that is good.. that can benefit.. that is able to be done.

Look at the most carnal will... the will of Satan. In the last day as GOD leads him to the lake of fire, even he will bow. God will have given him every opportunity to excercise his will and no matter how much he did that it could not prevail above the will of GOD.

You would have to be a mindless fool to recognize that GOD is GOD and you are not nor can never be and still be demanding your own will.

God is not forcing me to lay down my will;it is that I realize there is no choice. There is no choice... the disciples expressed this this way? "Where shall we go? You have the keys to eternal life!" When I lay down my will and take his, it is because by HIS grace and mercy, I have been given eyes to see that there is no choice... HE IS GOD. HIS will alone is the will that is done... I have simply faced the facts. Praise God I given grace to this while it profiteth me.


I dont see that the will of man is free. The will of man has a price and that is damnation and death.

I dont either see that the will of God is free. Christ had to die that I could lay down my will and take for myself HIS will.

What is free in either of those cases?

The bottom line is dead men have no need of their own will.


Regarding limited atonement. The Bible is very very clear that Christ died for the sins of the just and the unjust. In addition the Bible is very clear that when Christ rose all men would be drawn. Thus atonement is not and cannot be limited as Calvin taught.

However, though all men are drawn, all men do not come. The scripture says HIS sheep hear HIS voice and come. Neither of course will all men be saved because though the blood of Christ has paid for the sins of the just and the unjust, HIS righteousness is propitiated to those in and of faith.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

Icon 17 posted      Profile for KnowHim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I guess what you are saying Linda is you believe in Calvanism- teaches limited grace (only for the Elect) and we believe in Armenianism- teaches temporary grace (for all for now),  And there is an end to grace

If the above is true, we do disagree on this point. Don't know how the rest of the bible can be true, if we don't have freewill. Don't know why God would even want a bunch of robots to serve him. I believe it is each and everyone choice and if you go to hell, it was your choice. No one will be able to blame it on God when Jesus His son died for all.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not
Romans 10:17 Faith comes from hearing God’s message
James 1:18 We are made his children by his word
1 Timothy 5:12 Some cast off their faith
1 Timothy 4:1 Some turn from their faith
2 Timothy 2:18 Some have their faith overthrown by others
Romans 10:9-10 With heart believes unto righteousness; with mouth confession is made unto salvation
1 John 1:9 If we repent he is just to forgive us our sins,  and cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Luke 24:47 Repentance & Remission of sins is the message of the Gospel
Deuteronomy 30:15-19 God gives us a choice between life and death
Joshua 24:15 We choose who to serve
Romans 2:4(b) not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Romans 6:16 Choosing sin leads to death, choosing God leads life
Proverbs 1:29 Some hate wisdom and choose not to fear God
Ezekiel 18:4 & 19-20 God says the one who does right shall live, and the one who sins shall die
Ezekiel 18:25 & 29 God is not unfair about this
Ezekiel 18:17, 21-22, & 27 Those that turn from sin will live
Hebrews 9:11-12 By his blood our salvation is secured in heaven and nothing else, it was a more perfect sacrifice
Mark 13:13(b) but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved
Luke 6:46 And why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say
Luke 13:3, 5 Except you repent ye shall likewise perish
John 5:29 Those who have done good will rise to eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to judgement
John 15:6-7 Jesus says that those who stay in him will inherit and those who don’t will be thrown into the fire
Romans 2:7-9 He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality
2 Corinthians 7:10 God uses sorrow to turn us back to him by repentance, but sorrow without repentance still leads to death
2 Corinthians 11:2-4 I fear somehow you will be led away just as Eve was
Philippians 2:12-16 Work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling, that I may have not laboured in vain
Colossians 2:6-7 As you accepted Christ you must continue to live in obedience to him letting him change you
1 Thessalonians 4:7-8 God called us to holiness, if you despise this then your rejecting God
1 Timothy 4:1 Some shall depart from the Faith, and now follow demons and doctrine of  Devils
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape judgement if we neglect such a great salvation
Hebrews 3:12-13 Make sure that your hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning away from the Living God, warn everyone so that no ones is deceived by sin and their heart is hardened against God
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible to restore repentance to those who knew the truth then rejected it,  recrucifying Christ to the Cross
Hebrews 10:26-27 If we willfully sin after receiving the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins
Hebrews 12:17 Esau lost what could have been his, he cried bitterly for it, but it was too late for repentance
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word,  and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves
2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 2:20-21 For someone who was saved then returns to the world, it would have been better to not have responded the first time
2 Peter 3:15-18 Don’t misunderstand the Grace Paul preached about, I don’t want you to lose your secure footing
1 John 3:7-9 You must do what is right if you have God in you, if you continue in sin you belong to the devil
Jude 4-7 False teachers say with Grace you can continue in sin, but let me warn you God didn’t spare the Angels already with him
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white rainment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life
Exodus 32:33 Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book
Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous

Teaching that we have nothing to do with our salvation such as making the choice to follow Jesus reminds me of Mormonism, Catholicism, Jehovah Witnesses, & the other Cults these teachings reduce Gods plan for our Salvation. Turning us to a mere program or cold mechanism, drawing us away from a relationship with a loving God. This also causes people to have an atmosphere of superiority about them. Their unspoken message is, “We are better than you and God loves us more, because he chose us to give us special Revelation which is true Salvation” I sure don’t think this could be from the God of the Bible. Who is love, where Jesus said He died for our sins. He did not say he died for some peoples sins, but for all.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

whosoever - whoever
1. whatever person; anyone that: Whoever did it should be proud. Ask whoever is there. Tell it to whomever you like.
2. no matter who: I won't do it, whoever asks.

I just don't see how one can read the entire bible and come out with only some have a chance at salvation. The good news of the Gospel is that Jesus came and died for all.

--------------------
Video Tracts
Christian Media
LiveTracts
Friend Me On Facebook
Evangelism TackleBox

Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi, becauseHElives. It think two subjects are presented here.

One subject is whether we need, or can, clean ourselves up after salvation in order to be allowed to enter heaven.

And a second subject is whether we can lose our salvation, and you named all those scriptural injunctions, and I agree with you, we can lose our salvation.

But you seem to imply that we can lose our salvation because we were not able to clean ourselves up enough after salvation.

Whereas I believe that we can only lose our salvation when we STOP BELIEVING (for whatever reason, the pleasures of this world, etc.), but that is the only way we can lose our salvation because we then become responsible for paying the penalty for our own sins again, and hence we shall die when we STOP BELIEVING only in Jesus's propitiatory (substitutionary) work on the cross.

But to what extent we were able to "clean ourselves up" does not cause anyone to lose their salvation; we try to please God, but Adam is rotten to the core and will always stink to God.

God is NOT saving the FIRST Adam, God is DOING AWAY with the FIRST Adam. God is maing a NEW MAN from the second Adam, Jesus Christ.

Purifying is good and noble, to each man and woman's ability, but only Jesus's death on the cross sets us free from having to pay our own penalty.

And to receive that free gift, we have to continuously believe from day to day, until we die still believing. Then we shall be saved.

But if before death I stop believing that Jesus stuff anymore, I become responsible for paying the price for my sins again, which is death, not life. I must believe CONTINUOUSLY and CONSCIOUSLY in Jesus's substitutionary work until my death in order to be saved.

But to what extent we were able to clean up the FIRST Adam has nothing to do with salvation. We are commanded to behave ourselves in God's Family, of course, and with the help of the Word of God and with the help of the Holy Spirit we can be somewhat nicer than we were before we were saved.

But when it comes to salvation, on that day God will only look to see if a person is asking Jesus to be their Substitute, that's all, and anyone who believed in Jesus during their whole life, their name must be in the book of life.

Be blessed.

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey Dale: Unless David's beliefs have changed, I do not think that we believe differently. I think that we share these beliefs. I always thought we did any way. (He can correct me if I am wrong)

This is my belief:

1. Ye must be born again

2. If you are born again it will result in a change in your life.

3. Those who do not endure until the end; those whose lives never change; those whose lives change for a little while, and then they fall away into sin and remain there never repenting and dying in their sin, never were born again in the first place. (here is where you and I differ)

4. The gospel without repentance is not the Gospel of Christ

5. You must repent first, before you can be born again.

6. God demands holiness and a chaste life.

7. The born again does not have a desire to sin, but a desire not to sin.

None of the three of us believes in "easy believeism" or that walking down the aisle and saying Jesus come into my heart makes a born again believer.

All three of us believe that there are a whole hoard of people out there that claim to be born again and are not... who believe they are born again and are not.

All 3 of us believe that the Born again does not "practice" sin.

This is my understanding at least of how our 3 views compare.

I do think that you and he both are very firm in your belief about man choosing, where I differ. I believe that God chose us to reveal himself to and when that revelation is had we can do nothing but bow because HE is GOD and we know this, and I believe that our obedience is again something that we cannot fail to do.. to strive toward because we love him... it is a product of our love and not a choice of our will. I dont think that we can know.. really know what HE has done for us, which includes our knowing what we are without HIM, and not love HIM... I dont think we chose to love HIM, I think that it is a product of HIS having loved us who was so unlovable - He can not be resisted when we know who HE is and what HE has done. It is impossible. And this is something that grows more firmly believed in me with each passing day.
**************************************************

I do believe that the person who is indeed born again is secure and is kept in righteousness by Christ and will endure to the end, and in the end will have endured. (doctrine of eternal security)

But, I no longer call this OSAS, because A certain brother of mine (wonder who that could be [Razz] ) taught me that OSAS has a very different meaning in the world than that which I believe. So, I say that I believe the born again are eternally secure.


It is curious to me that we believe so many things alike that it seems odd to me the things we differ on. When I listen to you speak on these things find questions that I would like to know your understanding on, and so I will ask. Again, I ask to hear your thoughts not to contend.

So in this topic this is one of my questions:

It is my understanding that David shows us that there are two books. One in which all men who ever live are written, and when they die they are blotted out of this book.

The righteous are then written in another book, or are perhaps have always been written in that book from the foundation.

Here are the scriptures I speak to... My question is do you have thoughts on this and have you ever studied this. I would like to know your thoughts:

This is David:
Ps 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Then notice this:

Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This book is a book of HIS life; "Lamb's Book of Life is not a book HE possesses, but it is a documentation of HIS life, and thus we are in it because we are in him and he is in us, our life is hid in him and this life we no longer live but he lives in us. It is the Book of the Lamb's Life - ha HE is THE LIFE. this brings to my mind the scripture that we are reconciled to God's
life:

It is God's life that we were estranged from, and it is HIS HOLY Life that we are reconciled to and this to me is very profound.

Think of how men try to bring God down into their life of sin... "invite Christ in " it is preached... but no.. not as the scripture says! We are reconciled to HIM... to HIS life... It is HIS life we were estranged from; it is HIS life we are brought back into. The Life of God!

Eph 4:17 ¶ This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Then look at these verses:

Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Now see it in literal Greek:

Re 21:27 and there may not at all enter into it any thing defiling and doing abomination, and a lie, but—those written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb.

This is where the righteous are written, in the scroll of the life of the lamb.

Every other verse in Revelation... the ones where the word "lamb" does not appear, in the literal Greek, what is written is "the life" not the living, but the life, the book of the life... see here:

Re 3:5 He who is overcoming—this one—shall be arrayed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the scroll of the life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before His messengers.

Re 13:8 And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world;


Re 17:8 ‘The beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder shall those dwelling upon the earth, whose names have not been written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world, beholding the beast that was, and is not, although it is.

Re 20:12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works;

Re 20:15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

Re 21:27 and there may not at all enter into it any thing defiling and doing abomination, and a lie, but—those written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb.

It seems to me in Revelation 3 that Jesus does not say anything about blotting out the unfaithful. He says overcomers I will NOT blot out.

If there are 2 books as David seems to say (1) the book of all living (2) the book of the righteous there are then the unfaithful never were from the foundation of the world written in among the righteous in the book of the Lamb's life.

This would be consistent with REV 17:8 would it not Dale?

Would it not also be consistent with this one:

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And this:

Re 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

and with this:

2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:


What say ye?

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
When we stand before the Son of man, Yeshua will only look into the book of life, and if my name is recorded in the book of life, I will be given eternal life, for free.

And how does my name get recorded in the book of life? Only by believing that Jesus died for my sins and paid the whole penalty of death for my entire lifetime of sins. That's how my name gets written in the book of life, and that way only.

Blotted out.

Yeshua strongly warns that if we are not faithful, our names can be blotted out from the Book of Life (Revelation 3:1-6).

Yes, blotted out of the Book of Life!

Of course, we know that, in order to have one's name blotted out, it must have been in there in the first place. This warning was from Yeshua to Christians and should not be taken lightly.

I do not know who all will be saved in the end (that's Yahweh's responsibility)...

but trying to convince people practicing sin(living in sin) because they said a prayer of forgiveness at some point in time that the Kingdom of Yahweh is secured for them, is a total misrepresentation of the scriptures.

I am not talking about the occasional slip we all might make from time to time…

David holds one view…
Linda holds another view…

But they both agree as that the habitually sinner will not enter eternal life.

My belief….

Secure position. We are warned to be on our guard not to fall from our secure position (2 Peter 3:17). We are also told to make our calling and election secure so we will never fall (2 Peter 1:10-11). These scriptures plainly show that one can fall, even from a secure position.

Disqualified for the prize. Paul calls our eternal life a prize. He compares our life as a Christian to a race (1 Corinthians 9:24-27). He clearly shows here that one can become disqualified for the prize. He even states he had not taken hold of or obtained the prize. He was pressing forward to win the prize for which God had called him heavenward in Christ

(Philippians 3:10-15). Paul also warns us not to follow anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels or we will be disqualified for the prize (Colossians 2:18). Being disqualified means you once were qualified to receive the prize.

Believe for a while. Jesus warns that some will receive the Word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe in Christ for a while, but in the time of testing, they fall away (Luke 8:13).

Abandon the faith. Paul tells Timothy that later some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons (1 Timothy 4:1). In order to abandon the faith, one must first have it.

Drifting away. Some are lured back into the sins of the world. Paul warns us to pay careful attention to what we have heard so that we won't drift away by neglecting or ignoring the gift of salvation (Hebrews 2:1-3).

Better off not knowing Christ. Peter tells us that some will get to know the Lord, then go back into being entangled in the corruption of the world only to be worse off than before (2 Peter 2:20-21). It would be better to have never known Christ than to know the way to righteousness and then turn one's back on Him.

Crucifying Christ again. Paul tells us that those who have been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit, tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age cannot be brought back to repentance if they fall away (Hebrews 6:4-6).

They are crucifying Christ all over again. This shows that one can be a Christian and permanently fall away.

Standing firm. Jesus warns us that only those who stand firm to the end will be saved (Matthew 10:21-22; Matthew 24:12-13; Mark 13:12-13). We are to watch for the return of Jesus and not to be caught sleeping so that we can stand before the Son of Man (Matthew 24:37-44; Matthew 25:6-13; Mark 13:30-37; Luke 21:30-36; Revelation 3:1-3). This doesn't sound as if we are "once saved, always saved." If so, we wouldn't be warned to stand firm and keep watch.

Hold firmly. Paul wrote to the Jews to see that none of them had a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. They were to encourage one another so that none of them would be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. They were to hold firmly until the end with the confidence they had at first (Hebrews 3:7-14).
Conclusion. One can fall away by doing any of the following:

• Abandoning the faith to follow anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels
• Believing but later failing to believe when tested
• Following deceiving spirits and things taught by demons
• Being lured back into the sins of the world
• Neglecting or ignoring the gift of salvation
• Becoming entangled in the corruption of the world after knowing Christ
• Not standing firm in the faith to the end
• Not watching for and/or being unprepared for Jesus' return
• Allowing one's heart to harden by sin's deceitfulness
• Not living a life faithful to Christ
And this list may not be all inclusive, either. While it is true that God will never forsake us (Hebrews 13:5), we can forsake Him. Only those who obey Jesus will remain in His love (John 15:10). Take this seriously, because only a few will be saved (Matthew 7:13-14). Don't let your name be blotted out of the Book of Life.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi, becauseHElives. You said:

Do you practice sin?

or try wording the question this way, ,,,

"Do you practice grieving the Holy Spirit?"

If you do, the Kingdom of Yahweh will not be your eternal home.

Eden here:

Regarding the bolded part above, I don’t think that is true. Jesus’s suffering and death is 100% sufficient for our salvation. It cannot be added to by us, no matter how good we try to be on earth before our glorification comes.

When we stand before the Son of man, Yeshua will only look into the book of life, and if my name is recorded in the book of life, I will be given eternal life, for free.

And how does my name get recorded in the book of life? Only by believing that Jesus died for my sins and paid the whole penalty of death for my entire lifetime of sins. That's how my name gets written in the book of life, and that way only.

Does that mean that I am now going to be as bad as I want to? Hey, even BEFORE I was saved I was never interested in "being bad", so why should I start to be interested in being bad or stay to myself, now that I'm saved I'm going to be bad?

That would not happen, especially not since I now have the joy of being saved and the counsel of the Holy Spirit to help me be “even nicer than I already was.”

Trying to "be nicer" is a good and noble effort, and even a command, but no amount of Adamic effort is going to help me get salvation, becauseHElives, because Jesus is WAY ABOVE what the saved sinful earthlings are. And that brings me to what you further said:

BecauseHElives said:

The true child of God purifies himself because of the hope of seeing Yeshua one day

1 John 3:2-3 Remember, Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us that we should be called Children of God and as we read in vs 2: that when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!

Eden here:

Regarding the bolded part, “when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!,” this really reveals to me where you are actually coming from.

YOU apparently think that the REASON why we “shall be LIKE HIM” is because you, while on earth, after your salvation, will be able to CLEAN YOURSELF UP so that you WILL BE LIKE HIM!!!, because you have purified yourself up after you were saved but before you died.

And, praise the Lord, now you are EXACTLY LIKE HIM or at least SOON WILL BE, so that, to use your words, “If you do {grieve the Holy Spirit}, the Kingdom of Yahweh will not be your eternal home..

Now, here is MY take on that same verse. Let me repeat it again below:

1 John 3:2-3 Remember, Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us that we should be called Children of God and as we read in vs 2: that when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!

Eden here:

The only way I am ever going to BE LIKE Him is by the miracle of the redemption of the body at our glorification…it is a HEAVENLY DONE change, not anything that humans are capable of doing. When I shall be LIKE HIM is ONLY when I am glorified; no amount of human effort is ever even going to GET CLOSE to what will happen miraculously at our glorification.

And frankly, you may be in IN DANGER OF BEING STILL IN YOUR SINS (in danger of having to PAY THE PENALTY still for your own sins because you think that you can MAKE YOURSELF LIKE HIM!!!!!! In doing so, you do NOT believe that Jesus died 100% for your sins, and thus “you are yet in your sins”.

Now, don’t get me wrong. As I said above, I was never a “bad” person to begin with (I speak in human terms, not in terms of what God thinks we are), so now that I have the JOY of being saved and access to the wise counsel of the Holy Spirit, and OF COURSE I am THANKFUL too to be saved, so I wilol WANT to PLEASE my Father as much as I now can, but NONE OF THAT EFFORT CAN EVER EQUAL becoming LIKE HIM through our OWN purification work after we were saved.

Christians SHOULD feel bad about their sins and should tell the Lord so. And Christians should at least TRY NOT to lie, TRY NOT to steal, and TRY to honor their father and their mother, and will the help of the Holy Spirit Christians can do better at it than they did BEFORE they were saved, but NO AMOUNT of humanw/help H.Spirit cleanup will make us reach GLORIFICATION LEVEL, as you seemed to imply with your:

“The true child of God purifies himself because of the hope of seeing Yeshua one day”

1 John 3:2-3 Remember, Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us that we should be called Children of God and as we read in vs 2: that when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!

Only by a freely given miracle at the moment of our glorification shall we BE LIKE HIM. Our "purified" natural body will be exchanged for a SPIRITUAL BODY, LIKE JESUS HAD. NO AMOUNT of "purification" while on earth after salvation will STILL BE A NATURAL BODY ONLY and we ARE NOT LIKE HIM (God Jesus), not even CLOSE!!!!, until our glorification occurs.

Be blessed, becauseHElives

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 11 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi, becauseHElives. You said:

Do you practice sin?

or try wording the question this way, ,,,

"Do you practice grieving the Holy Spirit?"

If you do, the Kingdom of Yahweh will not be your eternal home.

Eden here:

Regarding the bolded part above, I don’t think that is true. Jesus’s suffering and death is 100% sufficient for our salvation. Jesus's work cannot be added to by us, no matter how good we try to be after salvation.

When we stand before the Son of man, Yeshua will look in the book of life, and if my name is recorded in the book of life, I will be given eternal life, for free.

And how does my name get into the book of life? Only be believing that Jesus died on my behalf for my lifetime of sins.

Does that mean I I am now going to be as bad as I want to? Hey, even BEFORE I was saved I was never that interested in being bad, so why should I start to interested in being bad or stay as bad now that I have the joy of being saved and the counsel of the Holy Spirit to help me be “even nicer than I already was.”

But no amount of Adamic effort is going to help me get salvation, becauseHElives, because Jesus is WAY ABOVE what the saved sinful earthlings are. And that brings me to what you further said:

BecauseHElives said:

The true child of God purifies himself because of the hope of seeing Yeshua one day

1 John 3:2-3 Remember, Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us that we should be called Children of God and as we read in vs 2: that when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!

Eden here:

Regarding the bolded part, “when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!,” this really reveals to me where you are actually coming from.

YOU apparently think that the REASON why we “shall be LIKE HIM” is because you, while on earth, after your salvation, will be able to CLEAN YOURSELF UP so that you WILL BE LIKE HIM!!!, because you have purified yourself up after you were saved but before you died.

And, praise the Lord, now you are EXACTLY LIKE HIM or at least SOON WILL BE, so that, to use your words, “If you do {grieve the Holy Spirit}, the Kingdom of Yahweh will not be your eternal home..

Now, here is MY take on that same verse. Let me repeat it again below:

1 John 3:2-3 Remember, Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us that we should be called Children of God and as we read in vs 2: that when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!

Eden here:

The only way I am ever going to BE LIKE Him is by the miracle of the redemption of the body at our glorification…it is a HEAVENLY DONE change, not anything that humans are capable of doing. When I shall be LIKE HIM is ONLY when I am glorified; no amount of human effort is ever even going to GET CLOSE to what will happen miraculously at our glorification.

And frankly, you may be in DANGER OF BEING YET IN YOUR SINS (of having to pay the penalty stil for your own sins still because you still do not believe that ONLY THE DEATH OF JESUS can pay ffor your sins, so you are putting yourself BAXK UNDER THE LAW and you are NO LONGER UNDER GRACE because you believe that YOU can MAKE YOURSELF LIKE HIM!!!!! (If only....)

Now, don’t get me wrong, becauseHElives. As I said above, I was never a “bad” person to begin with (I speak in human terms, not in terms of what God thinks we are), so now that I have the JOY of being saved and access to the wise counsel of the Holy Spirit, and OF COURSE I am THANKFUL so I want to PLEASE my Father as much as I now can, but NONE OF THAT CAN EVER EQUAL THAT WE BECOME LIKE HIM through or OWN purification work after we were saved.

Christians SHOULD feel bad about their sins and should tell the Lord so. And Christians should at least TRY NOT to lie, TRY NOT to steal, and TRY to honor their father and their mother, and will the help of the Holy Spirit Christians can do better at it than they did BEFORE they were saved, but NO AMOUNT of humanw/help H.Spirit cleanup will make us reach GLORIFICATION LEVEL, as you seemed to imply with your:

“The true child of God purifies himself because of the hope of seeing Yeshua one day”

1 John 3:2-3 Remember, Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us that we should be called Children of God and as we read in vs 2: that when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!

Only by a freely given miracle at the moment of our glorification shall we BE LIKE HIM, until then, no amount of "purification" that we were able to create while on earth with the Lord's help will ever come CLOSE!!!! to what God is and to what Jesus is, compared to us Adamic earthlings. Even in our "purified" condition we are in horrid condition.

Be blessed, becauseHElives

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Dale: I have a question for you. I was reading through this thread and I ran accross this:

quote:
A backslider is a person who once had salvation, but has since turned away from the Lord Jesus to the point that he is now spiritually lost and dead again, just like he was before becoming saved. The Bible is filled with examples of people, named and unnamed, who turned away from God temporarily or permanently. Some returned, like King David and Peter, while others never came back to God, like kings Saul and Solomon.

A common contact that our ministry receives is from the grieving backslider, who wants to come back to God, but isn’t sure that he can. Some think they sinned too much and too grievously while others think they committed eternal sin and therefore can’t get forgiven. There is, perhaps, no more downcast person to communicate with than a repentant person who isn’t sure he can come back to God and find forgiveness, though he desperately wants forgiven!

If it is as you say and the backslider is lost as he was before.."spiritually lost and dead again" then what is it that moves him to come back?

Does he come back of his own accord or does God draw him back? How does one who is lost become a grieving sinner now desiring GOD?

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Do you practice sin?

or try wording the question this way, ,,,

"Do you practice Grieving the Holy Spirit?"

If you do the Kingdom of Yahweh will not be your eternal home.

The true child of God purifies himself because of the hope of seeing Yeshua one day –

1 John 3:2-3 Remember, Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us that we should be called Children of God and as we read in vs 2: that when HE is revealed, we shall BE LIKE HIM!!!!!
2. In discussing "purity", the subject of "sin" naturally arises...

Which may be why John moves right into a discussion of "Sin And The Child of God" - 1 John 3:4-9

It also fits into John's overall theme of combating the Gnostic-like influences that were teaching that sinning did not affect one's relationship with Yahweh. There’s a popular radio teacher that today is edging on Gnostism by teaching a Grace only message, he negates the issue of sin claiming its already been taken care of at the cross. Thus, if you sin, there's no need to confess it, pray about it or deal with it. Just live right and don't sin but if you do realize its all covered under the blood.

I think if John were alive today he would confront many of today's preachers just as he has done here in 1 John 3.

3. How then shall the true child of God regard sin? Is it something to be taken lightly? Not if the apostle John has anything to say about it!

[Using verses 4-9 as our text, then, let's consider what John has to say about "Sin And The Child Of Yahweh".
begin by noticing...]

I. THE "DEFINITION" OF SIN (4)

A. AS UNDERSTOOD BY SOME...

1. Sin is nothing more than a violation of human relationships 2. Which can be easily resolved by correcting relationship problems

-- While SOME sins may be a violation of "human" relationships, the true meaning of sin goes much further than that

B. THE LITERAL MEANING OF THE WORD "SIN"

1. The Greek word for "sin" is hamartia {ham-ar'-tee'-ah}, and it literally means "to miss the mark"
2. E.g., as when an archer fails to hit the center of the target
3. So "sin" is some kind of action (or lack of it) in which one fails to meet the goal intended by God - cf. Ro 3:23

C. AS DEFINED BY JOHN...

1. Sin is "lawlessness" (NKJV), or "transgression of the law" (KJV)
2. The word for lawlessness (transgression) is anomia {an-om-ee' -ah}, which means "illegality, i.e. violation of law"

a. I.e., to break or violate a law, such as the law of God
b. E.g., to steal when the law says "Thou shalt not steal"

3. So sin occurs when you DO WHAT IS FORBIDDEN (commonly called "a sin of commission")

D. AS DEFINED BY JAMES...

1. James describes another kind of sin - cf. Ja 4:17

2. So sin is also committed when you FAIL TO DO WHAT IS GOOD OR COMMANDED (often called "a sin of omission")

a. E.g., failing to love your brother b. While you may not do ill toward your brother, failure to do good is just as much a sin!

E. IN BOTH OF THESE DEFINITIONS OF SIN...

1. One has failed to meet a certain standard (they have "missed the mark")

2. In this case, the standard is the "law of God"

a. Which, when carefully noted, is designed to help us in our relationships with...
1) God
2) Other people
3) Even self
b. Every command of God, both negative and positive, affect these relationships in one way or the other

[Failure to understand the true nature of "sin" is one reason why there is so much apathy toward it today. But every time we sin, we adversely affect our relationship with either God, others, or our own selves!

Further insight into the terribleness of sin is gained by considering what John says about...]

II. THE "ORIGIN" OF SIN (8a)

A. SIN IS OF THE DEVIL!

1. "He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning."
2. This statement of John is reminiscent of one made by Jesus in John 8:44
3. From the beginning the devil has been the "father" or origin of sin ("he is a liar and the father of it")

B. THOSE WHO SIN ARE OF THE DEVIL!

1. Since he is the "father" of sin, those who practice sin are his children
2. "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do" - cf. Jn 8:44a

3. So when we "miss the mark" by either...

a. Doing what is forbidden
b. Failing to do what is commanded...we demonstrate the influences of the devil in our lives!

[If sin can make one to be "the children of the devil", that ought to tell us something about the terribleness of sin!
But there is something else that describes sin's terribleness, and that is seen as we consider what John says about...]

III. THE "DEFEAT" OF SIN (5a, 8b)

A. THIS WAS THE PURPOSE OF CHRIST'S COMING...

1. "He was manifested to take away our sins" - 1 Jn 3:5a
2. "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil." - 1 John 3:8b
3. As John the Baptist declared: "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" - John 1:29

-- To continue to walk in sin, therefore, is to undermine the purpose of our Lord's coming! B. CONSIDER WHAT IT COST JESUS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS PURPOSE... 1. Nothing less than His own death! - cf. 1 Corinthians 15:3

2. Nothing less than His precious blood! - cf. Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 1: 18-19

-- Does not this tell us something about the terribleness of sin?

[When we properly understand what sin is, and how terrible it must be in God's sight, then for the "child of God" there can only be one goal: what John describes as...]

IV. THE "REFRAINMENT" OF SIN (6-7, 9)

A. WHOEVER "ABIDES IN HIM" DOES NOT SIN... (6)

1. The phrase "does not sin" is present tense in the Greek, suggesting a practice of not sinning

a. John has already affirmed that Christians sin - cf. Jn 1: 8,10
b. To say we have no sin is to lie, and to make God a liar
c. So John is talking about one who does not "continuously practice sin"

2. Such is true of those who "abide in Him"

a. Those who "abide in Jesus" do not continuously engage in sin
b. That is because they...

1) Let that which they have heard from the beginning abide in them (i.e., the words of Jesus) - cf. 1 John 2:24
2) Strive to walk even as Jesus walked - cf. 1 John 2:6

3. But the one who continuously practices sin has neither seen Jesus nor known him (despite any claims to the contrary!)

B. WHOEVER "HAS BEEN BORN OF GOD" DOES NOT SIN... (9)

1. Again, John uses the present tense when he says "does not sin"

a. He is not suggesting that one "born of God" never sins
b. But that one truly "born of God" does not continuously practice sin

2. And why is that? Because "His seed remains in Him"

a. The "seed" is that life-giving principle that makes one a child of God
b. Which clearly involves the Word of God - cf. James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:22-23

3. As long as one allows the "seed" (the Word of God) to remain in him, he is "born of God"

a. As such he does not continuously practice sin
b. Nor can he continuously practice sin, if the "seed" is remaining in him
c. Instead, he continuously practices righteousness! - 1 Jonn 3:7

CONCLUSION

1. Again, it helpful to remember that John is dealing with precursors to Gnosticism, and the idea that one can claim to be "born of God" and not be concerned about sin in their life

2. But when we are aware of:

a. The "definition" of sin
b. The "origin" of sin
c. The "defeat" of sin
d. The "refrainment" of sin
...our attitude toward sin will certainly be different than those John was having to combat!

3. What is your attitude toward sin?

a. Have you been born again through obedience to the Word of God (the incorruptible seed)?
b. Are you letting that "seed" remain in you so that you do not continuously practice sin?
How you answer can reveal whose "child" you really are!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Caretaker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We who believe in the eternal security of the believer, believe that those who have by faith trusted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior are eternally secure and can never lose their salvation. We further believe it is the privilege of all believers to be assured of their salvation; that this assurance rests not in themselves, but in the promises of God; that the Scriptures teach that such as are truly regenerate, being born of the Spirit, will not utterly fall away and finally perish, but are kept by the power of God
unto the day of salvation. We also believe that the doctrine of eternal security should lead to a life of love, gratitude and obedience to God.

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


John 10:
27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Philippians 1:
6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


I Peter 1:3-5;
3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I John 2:19;
19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Romans 11:29.
29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


Being good enough—being free from bad habits and bad behavior, earning enough "points" on the ledger of good behavior—is not what brings about a new spiritual birth in a person. Salvation is solely a matter of believing in Jesus. The repentance and change of behavior come later as the Holy Spirit prompts it, and also as Holy Spirit helps a person to accomplish it! It is vitally important for you at this point to come to this understanding: Nothing you do apart from believing in Jesus Christ causes you to be saved. When you believe, the Spirit enters into you and causes your old sin nature to be transformed into a new nature that is in the likeness of God. The transformation of your spirit is a sovereign work of God; you cannot do it on your own, achieve it through your will or behavior, force it to happen by any other means than believing.

If you believe that your salvation came about by anything other than simply believing in what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross, then you believe that your salvation was in some way related to your own will and to your own works. If you believe that your salvation is related to your will and your works, then you will believe that your will and your works can in some way "undo" or negate your salvation.

On the other hand, if you believe that your salvation was based solely on what Jesus did for you and what the Holy Spirit has done in you, then you believe that your salvation was a sovereign work of God. Your part was simply to believe and receive what God provided and what God promised. The person who believes this must therefore conclude that since he did absolutely nothing to transform his old sin nature into a new spiritual nature, he cannot do anything to cause his new spiritual nature to revert to his old nature.

2 Cor. 1:
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.
24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

2 Cor. 5:
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Eph. 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Earnest:

Strong's Number: 728 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ajrrabwvn of Hebrew origin (06162)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Arrhabon 1:475,80
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ar-hrab-ohn'
Noun Masculine
Definition
1. an earnest
a. money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid
John Gills exposition of 2 Cor. 1:22

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

2 Corinthians 1:22

Who hath also sealed us…

"Two" things more are here attributed to God; "first", the sealing of his people. The use of seals is various, as to denote property in things, to distinguish one thing from another, to show esteem and affection for persons or things, and for security and protection, and to hide and conceal; all which might be applied to sealing, as expressive of the grace of God to his people, in claiming a property in them, distinguishing them from the rest of the world, setting his affections on them, securing and protecting their persons, and hiding them under the shadow of his wings: but sometimes a seal is used to certify, make sure, or assure the truth of a thing; see (John 3:33) (1 Corinthians 9:3) (Jeremiah 33:10) in which sense the word "sealing" is used here, and intends that assurance which God gives his people of their interest in his love, and the covenant of grace; of their election of God, and redemption by Christ; of their interest in Christ, and union with him; of their justification by him, and adoption through him; of the truth of grace in their hearts, their perseverance in it, and sure and certain enjoyment of eternal glory. The persons thus sealed are not carnal and unconverted persons, only believers in Christ, and these, after they commence such; the seal by which they are sealed, is not any of the ordinances, as circumcision under the Old Testament, or baptism, or the Lord's supper under the New; for these are no seals, nor are they ever so called; but the Spirit of God himself, as the Holy Spirit of promise; for the same who, in the next clause, is called the earnest, is the seal; see (Ephesians 1:13) .

"Secondly", the giving of the earnest of the Spirit:
and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts:
by "the Spirit" is meant, not the gifts and graces of the Spirit merely, but the Spirit of God and Christ himself; who was concerned in the creation of the world, in inditing the Scriptures, in forming and filling the human nature of Christ, and in his resurrection from the dead; he himself is given as an "earnest": the word (arrabwn) , here used, and in (2 Corinthians 5:5) (Ephesians 1:14) is the Hebrew word (Nwbre) , and comes from (bre) , which signifies "to become a surety, to give a pledge"; and is used for a pledge in covenants and bargains, both in Scripture, see (Genesis 38:17,18,20) , and in Jewish writings F4; which is given as an earnest, and in part of what it is a pledge of, and is never returned: the Spirit of God is an earnest or pledge of the heavenly inheritance, which is not only prepared for us, and promised to us, and Christ is in the possession of in our nature, in our room and stead, and as our representative; but the Spirit of God also is sent down "into our hearts" as a pledge of it; where he dwells as in his temple, supplies us with all grace, witnesses to us our sonship, and assures us of the heavenly glory: and as such he is "given"; and an unmerited free grace gift he is; for him to be given in this manner, and for such a purpose, is a wonderful display of the love of the Father, and of the Son, and is a surprising instance of his grace and condescension of the Spirit, and for which we should be abundantly thankful.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Believer has the absolute irrevocable guarantee from God of eternal redemption through the very indwelling presence of God the Holy Spirit. It is our seal that we ARE His for eternity.

Surety:

2 a : a formal engagement (as a pledge) given for the fulfillment of an undertaking : GUARANTEE b : a basis of confidence or security

Main Entry: 3earnest
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ernes, ernest, from Anglo-French arres, erres, plural of erre earnest, from Latin arra, short for arrabo, from Greek arrhabOn, of Semitic origin; akin to Hebrew 'ErAbhOn pledge
1 : something of value given by a buyer to a seller to bind a bargain
2 : a token of what is to come : PLEDGE

It is within the heart of the Believer that the Holy Spirit produces spiritual fruit, and this fruit is evidence of the sealing of the Believer which has taken place.

A fruit of the Spirit is faith, and it is this faith by which we are saved.

Ephesians 2:
8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galations 5:
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" is saved, those who are saved, our Lord has declared that NONE can pluck them out of the Father's Hand. Those who preach a salvation dependent upon our matinance deny the power of God to Draw us, Seal us, Stablish us, to Maintain us.

1 John 2:
19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/b...esseda.htm

Blessèd assurance, Jesus is mine!
O what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

Refrain

This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior, all the day long;
This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior, all the day long.

Perfect submission, perfect delight,
Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
Angels descending bring from above
Echoes of mercy, whispers of love.

Refrain

Perfect submission, all is at rest
I in my Savior am happy and blest,
Watching and waiting, looking above,
Filled with His goodness, lost in His love.

Refrain


What Blessed Assurance we have from our glorious Lord!!

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 18 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I will still pray and lift my people to Christ.....

OSAS to me is "Once SEALED always SEALED untill the day of redemption.As the text of the original post stated befor it got moved into a different dirrection.....

And again I say there are carnal christians that become weak and die. Its in the Bible.

1Cor.11
[30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

Icon 1 posted      Profile for KnowHim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
liar

WildB you are just about to be banned from the message board. You need to control your self. We do not teach OSAS on this message board as it is sending many, many people to HELL. I have posted the below before and will post it again:

If one produces bad fruit and continues to do so, they never knew Jesus as their savior. Therefore they we never saved to begin with. That is the point.
This means that if one is saved they will live like it. And once you are truly saved, you will not want to re-crucify Jesus afresh.

Hebrews 6:4-6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

But to teach one that they can just walk the aisle and be baptized (get your ticket to heaven) and go back to your former way of life is a very bad thing. This is deception and can and does cause many to never come to know Jesus Christ personally as their savior. One should watch what they are saying and never cause one to lose their soul because of this type of teaching. If one takes the teaching of the OSAS an don’t understand it, believes in the ticket to heaven syndrome, and never comes to know Jesus Christ but just does the ritual aisle walk, then they will be lost in Church and never come to salvation. For the longer they go in this condition, the harder their heart will become and they may never truly believe in Jesus because they have convinced themselves that they are saved through the ritual then having coming into a real relationship with Jesus Christ. Thus never ever being saved in the first place.

WARNING - Never try to convince someone that they are saved because they walked the aisle or got baptized. You don’t know their heart, only God knows their heart. And if you convince someone they are saved when in reality they are not, then you are assisting Satan and helping them slide quietly into the pit of hell. If someone is not living like they are saved, then most likely they are not and never came to know Jesus as their Lord in the first place.

Matthew 7:22-23 (NKJV)
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. . . . Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? (1 Jn. 2:19,22).



Should we just assume that all those who claim to be Christians are saved, no matter how they are living? No, the burden of proof is on the person who claims to be a new creation in Christ. Anyone who says he knows Christ as Savior should prove it by living a life that supports his claim. Paul said of such persons, "'The Lord knows those who are His,' and, 'Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity'" (2 Tim. 2:19).

The apostle John indicated that some who depart from the faith reveal that they were never really saved in the first place. He wrote, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" (1 Jn. 2:19). Given such possibilities, all we can do is conclude that a person either is or is not giving evidence of having eternal life. God alone is his Judge.



For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire" (2 Pet. 2:20-22).

The illustration at the end of this passage shows us that Peter was not implying a loss of salvation. Since the dog was still a dog, and the pig was still a pig, they both went back to their own natural ways. Both returned because neither had experienced an essential change of nature. At best, both had merely been cleaned, combed, pampered, and flattered.

This is the best explanation for those who appear to have completely lost any faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. But if the truth were known, they never had it. They may have enjoyed many of the benefits of the truth and people of God for a while, but it had never resulted in a real change of heart. They had grown up among the wheat as hard-to-tell-the-difference weeds (tares). But in time they showed their true colors. John explained that, in leaving, they made it clear that their salvation was not the real thing (1 Jn. 2:19).

--------------------
Video Tracts
Christian Media
LiveTracts
Friend Me On Facebook
Evangelism TackleBox

Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
WildB, don’t change the topic…

If you want to discuss why I use the Name Yahweh, we will start another thread…

This topic was “Grieve not the Spirit”

My question to you was do you believe you can live like “Hell” and still enter Yahweh’s Kingdom or (the Kingdom of God) as the KJV puts it?

Answer some of my points from scripture, don’t just call me silly.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 12 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
becauseHelives posted October 28, 2006 09:45 AM

WildB posted October 28, 2006 09:49 AM

Instead of speed reading your Bible, try slowing down and try to comprehend what you are reading

You did not even try to understand what I wrote, (you posted back in less than 4 minutes and that included the time to type the answer)

Do you really believe you can live like “hell” and still enter Yahweh’s Eternal Kingdom?

Thats all it takes ...For some....


""You and a many more believe you can live like “Hell” and still be part of Yahweh Eternal Kingdom."


Please forward the script that gives you permission to address our Father as Yahweh?

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 1 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
becauseHelives posted October 28, 2006 09:45 AM

WildB posted October 28, 2006 09:49 AM

Instead of speed reading your Bible, try slowing down and try to comprehend what you are reading

You did not even try to understand what I wrote, (you posted back in less than 4 minutes and that included the time to type the answer)

Do you really believe you can live like “hell” and still enter Yahweh’s Eternal Kingdom?

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 15 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"You and a many more believe you can live like “Hell” and still be part of Yahweh Eternal Kingdom."


Wow and your a moderator?


Repent of your very own sillyness.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I would say the same to you WildB , study your scriptures more, learn to make all scripture say the same thing and not take scripture out of context. Line upon line, precept upon precept.

I am being anything but silly!

This is about eternal lives….

You and a many more believe you can live like “Hell” and still be part of Yahweh Eternal Kingdom.

Every Bible scholar that has ever lived agree on one point….

The only souls that are truly saved are those that endure to the end; finish the coarse living a life that examples the Christian Faith, (walking in true trust of Yeshua’s sacrifice, walking in forgiveness toward others, and walking in repentance toward Yahweh.


The context of Luke 15, the parable of the Prodigal Son, in this parable you remember this boy asked of his father that he might receive his inheritance. Upon receiving it, he went to a far country and wasted it with riotous (or evil) living. Finally, when his inheritance was all spent, he found himself feeding swine. A despicable occupation for a Jew. He decided to go back to his father's house and confess his sins.

The Father, eagerly looking for his return, met him and restored him to his place in the family. Someone says, you see, this child returned to his father. And that is so. But, did you notice what the father said. "For this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." Had the son died? NO!! Was the son actually lost?
No! He knew the way back home. What is meant by the terms "He was dead" and "He was lost"? It means that he was separated (one meaning of the term "dead") from the father's love and fellowship. Being lost means he was away from the father.

Someone says, "Don't you see that this boy was always a child of his fathers?" And I agree. But, he was a lost child, a separated child, a child away from the care and protection of his father. Had that boy died in the pig pen, he would have died out of the fellowship of the father. Away from the blessings of the Father.

You will note that the Father did not force the boy to return home. He did not send the elder brother out looking for him. So, likewise, when a Christian turns back to the ways of the world and walks in sins once more, Yahweh will not force his return. We each have the choice as to the life we live. Yahweh desires our faithfulness. Our continual obedience. But the decision rests with each one. I serve Yahweh because I wish to serve Him, not because he forces or compels me.

And the same is so with each one that is Born Again, and as far as that goes for all who live in the flesh.

So, I ask you a question. While the boy in the parable was feeding the swine, was he in fellowship with his father or was he lost from that relationship? The father states that he was lost. He was dead. Oh, he was not dead physically, but he was away from the Father. Can a child of God be lost? Yeshua seemed to think so, or this parable has no meaning to it.

I now read from 1 Corinthians 9:26, 27, "I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it unto bondage; lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected (or as the King James version states, 'castaway')." Paul, are you telling us that you could become a castaway or be rejected? Sorta sounds like it, doesn't it?

Paul recognized that if his body was not kept under subjection that he would be rejected by the Lord. Paul had to keep himself under control. He could not live in the lust of the flesh and still please Yahweh.

Neither can you, nor I, my friends. We, too, must keep our bodies under control at all times. We, too, must buffet our bodies. I, nor are you, any better than the apostle Paul. And what Paul felt, we too must understand. If we would please the Lord, we simply cannot walk in the sins of the world about us. Does this mean that we must live a perfectly sinless life at all times, that we cannot sin.

No, it does not mean that. It does mean that the child of God does not desire to commit sin. When sin is committed, we must confess that sin and ask for God's forgiveness. As I have stated in many other post.

We are not discussing whether or not a Christian SHOULD commit sin, or whether or not the Christian will sin. All students of the Word of God know that if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. So states John in 1 John 1:8.

But, can a Christian revert back to the ways of the world, walk, and live in sin. Surely he can. And if he dies in that condition, what shall be the eternal destiny of that one.

Paul says that one would become a castaway or be rejected.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/9/1162045116-6595.html

The word adokimos {ad-ok'-ee-mos} is used 8 times in the New Testament (6 times it is translated reprobate, 1 time castaway, 1 time rejected)

There will be no reprobates in The Kingdom of Yahweh!

Now turn to Galatians 5:4, "Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law, ye are fallen away from grace." Who is the "Ye" in the context? To whom is Paul writing this letter? He is writing unto the churches of Galatia (chapter 1, verse 2), unto brethren in the Lord (chapter 1, verse 11); those who had been baptized into Christ (chapter 3, verse 27); children of Yahweh. There were some of them who wished to bind circumcision upon the Gentile converts. Paul is telling them, if they seek to bind circumcision upon the new converts, seek to be justified by the law, then they were fallen away from grace. Can one fall from the rooftop of a building if they were never on the rooftop? How can one fall from the grace of Yahweh, if that one has never been in the grace of God? It would be an impossibility to fall from grace unless one was in that grace. And yet, Paul warns, "those who would seek to be justified by the law, ye are fallen away from grace." So, we ask again, Is it possible for a child of Yahweh to fall from Grace. The inspired apostle seems to think that it is. And in view of all the other passages we have studied, the inspired Word of Yahweh teaches the danger of apostasy and the possibility of one's falling away from the living God.

In 2 Peter 1:10, we read, "Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure; for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:" First, note, the apostle is addressing "brethren." Who are brethren? They are those in the family of Yahweh, having the same Father, they are brethren. What were these brethren warned against doing? Peter says that they (and us) must do "these things." What are "these things"? The "these things" are the things listed in the preceding verses: faith, virtue, knowledge, self- control, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and love. He says that if we do these things we shall never stumble. What if I do not add these virtues on a continuing basis to my life? I will fall, stumble. You will also notice the writer says that we are to make our calling and election sure. Do we have a part in securing eternal salvation? Of course we do. It is by our own choice that I choose to obey Yahweh and to remain faithful. Yahweh has not put a protective bubble around us and removed our choice in our desire to serve Him. Though He has promised to be with us, we must continually seek His companionship and guidance, which comes through His word.

Hebrews 4:1, reads, "Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience." The writer says, "Let US." Words mean something. Who are the "us" in this verse. It would be the ones to whom he is writing and himself. In other words, Christians. Specifically, Jewish Christians of the first century. But, also, all who shall become Christians through the teachings of the apostles. That includes you and it includes me, if we have obeyed the words of Yeshua and become His disciples, the child of Yahweh. Thus, to "us" he says, "that no man fall." Can the Christian fall? Surely, he can. What if he or she does fall? Are they pleasing unto Yahweh? To ask the question is to answer it. The falling in this context involves becoming "disobedient." Read the verse again, "Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience." Can the Christian become disobedient? The Hebrew writer seems to think that he can. Will the disobedient be saved? Who would so affirm?

Revelation 3:5, reads, "He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life." What does it mean to "blot his name out." It means to erase it, to remove it from the page. In order for us to not have our name blotted out, we must overcome. We simply cannot give in to the flesh and expect our name to be confessed before the Father. In order to have one's name blotted out of the book of life, it necessarily follows that one's name was in that book of life. How could a name be blotted out that was not there in the first place? So, one who has been placed in God's book may have that name removed, blotted out.

Doesn't that sound a child of Yahweh can so sin so as to lose heaven?

To have his or her name removed from God's record.

In the same third chapter of Revelation, this time in verses 14-
16, "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things
saith the Amen, the faithful land true witness, the beginning of the creation of God: I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot:
I would that thou art cold or hot. So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth." Here is a group of lukewarm Christians whom John says the Lord shall "spew out of His mouth." What does it mean to "spew out of His mouth." It means to dispose of. They had become nauseating unto the Lord. Do you honestly think that a group of Yahweh's people thus described are going to be accepted by the Lord? And yet, there are those who claim that the way a Christian lives has nothing to do with the eternal destiny of their soul. Who can believe that?

Romans 8:13, reads, "for if ye live (walk) after the flesh, ye must die;" You will note that Paul is speaking to brethren, members of the family of Yahweh. And he states that if they live or walk after the flesh they would die. He is not discussing physical death, for all must face physical death. Paul is discussing spiritual death, separation from Yahweh. Do we mean that a child of Yahweh can be separated from the Father? That is exactly what is stated. Paul says that to live or walk after the flesh will bring about spiritual death, separation from the father. Yes, indeed, a child of Yahweh can so sin so as to be lost in eternity.

1 John 3:15, reads, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." Can one brother hate another brother? Who would deny that this can happen?
But, John states if that condition develops, if would have the same consequences as becoming a murderer. But, John also affirms that no murderer hath eternal life. Thus, a brother that hates another brother cannot have eternal life in him. Here is a brother who has lost his eternal life because of hating another brother. Doesn't that sound like a child of Yahweh can so sin so as to lose his or her eternal life?

Look at your Bible. The first four books have been written to convince the world that Yeshua is the Son of God. The next book, the book of Acts, was written to tell people how to become the child of Yahweh. The next 22 books were written to tell the children of Yahweh how to live and act.

What purpose would it be to write 22 books to tell children of Yahweh how to act if they cannot lose their eternal reward?

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 19 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
becauseHElives,
Your oppinion is not rightly divided. Try to study your Bible just a little more before you post again please.
Im not here to fight, but you are wrong in your thinking. In the old testement the Holy spirit could leave the person, as it did with some that you have mentioned. David knew this and asked our Father not to do so with him.

Pss.51
[11] Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.


In the age of Grace A born again back slidder with eternal salvation can only grieve the Hold Spirit to which he was sealed and in some cases sin unto death....

Eph.4
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1Cor.5
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 1 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello niel,

quote:
Dear Brother,( sorry I could not find the topic)

I am so glad that I can agree with you on this matter of those who backslide and are negligence will not enter the Kingdom. However, this does not concern those who are born again, they go through trails and tribulations and spiritual deserts. Although these things may look the same, they are the educators of our spiritual being. Remember spiritual growth is not just bible study but also everyday life experience. We must also be aware, according to Mat 13:25 that the devil also sow seed, and you see in Mat 13:26 only when the wheat bares fruit you could see the difference. And also the wheat with the fruit never become weed, but if the weed repent and dies it can become wheat (spiritually speaking).

We must understand the uniqueness of our spiritual birth. When God created the universe and everything in it including the angels, He spoke a Word or used dust to create Adam. However, with our spiritual birth, God takes of Himself (His seed, Christ, the Word) to conceive our cleansed spirit and out of that a new creature is born. Now we are superior to everything that God created because we not created any more but beget, we are His children. This birth happened the same way when you were born out of your parents just in the spiritual realm. As you inherit the qualities of your parents, you will also inherit some of God’s character, which includes a new will. Maybe this is what God meant in Jer 31: 33 ….. I will put my law in their inward parts and Jer 32:40 I will put my fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me. You see now that we have the same will that of God, we only do the positive because the wrought never even crosses our minds. Unfortunately, this is not as this from the start, there is a long process before we reach perfection. Maybe this is what the writer of Heb 6:1 meant, leave your salvation, let us press on unto perfection of our new born spirit.
Heb 6:1 Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Be blessed
Niel

A backslider is a person who once had salvation, but has since turned away from the Lord Jesus to the point that he is now spiritually lost and dead again, just like he was before becoming saved. The Bible is filled with examples of people, named and unnamed, who turned away from God temporarily or permanently. Some returned, like King David and Peter, while others never came back to God, like kings Saul and Solomon.

A common contact that our ministry receives is from the grieving backslider, who wants to come back to God, but isn’t sure that he can. Some think they sinned too much and too grievously while others think they committed eternal sin and therefore can’t get forgiven. There is, perhaps, no more downcast person to communicate with than a repentant person who isn’t sure he can come back to God and find forgiveness, though he desperately wants forgiven!

Years ago, when I was pastoring, I knew a person who was previously saved but afterwards fell into sexually immorality. Over the next couple days that man lost nearly 10 pounds and was actually, on occasions, beating his own head against the wall in regret over his sin and foolishness. (He wrongly thought he was doomed to hell with no possible hope of ever getting saved again.) What finally helped this man to see that he could come back to God, in spite of his wicked actions, were the examples of King David and the Apostle Peter. Since God took these men back, why should he not take him too, since he was deeply repentant and resolved to never commit that sin again.

Other examples of grieving backsliders would vary from people crying to simply asking if they could possibly find forgiveness once again. For such people, we often tell them of the teaching of the Lord Jesus in Luke 15:11-32. In our day, we call that teaching the Parable of the Prodigal, though it not actually called this in the Bible. The highest authority on the backslider, and how God reacts to a repentant one, taught the following:

Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.’ So he got up and went to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’ The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’ My son, the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

Observations

* The prodigal repented when he came to his senses. This means a person who remains unrepentant and in sin that is dragging him to hell is not in his right spiritual senses. He has been spiritually blinded by something or deceived somehow.

* The prodigal was able to find forgiveness after he turned from all the wickedness he had been in that held him in spiritual death. Repentance (turning from sin) to serve God is illustrated in this teaching. Though he was in wild living, including sexual sin with prostitutes, for an unknown period of time—perhaps many years—he still found forgiveness.

* The prodigal became alive again and his lost spiritual condition changed upon turning from all those sins and humbly coming back to the Father to serve him. Compare to 1 Thess. 1:9b.

* The only time in the Bible that we read where the Father ran is in this teaching and it was to welcome the repentant backslider back home.

* The Father was so happy to have him back he hugged and kissed him as well as celebrated.

* Some Christians who correctly reject the teaching of eternal security wrongly think that no one who ever falls away can come back. This is clearly refuted by Jesus’ teaching here, as well as other passages (Rom. 11:19-23 and James 5:19,20).

* This teaching proves that a spiritually lost and dead person could be a person never saved or one that was once saved.

God Delights to Show Mercy to the Repentant!
The fact that God delights to show mercy to the repentant is illustrated in Jesus’ teaching, but also candidly declared in the following passage:

Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea (Micah 7:18,19).

Another relevant passage is:

He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy (Prov 28:13).

Did you notice that the returned prodical confessed his sins and wicked actions to the Father (and not to any man, including a priest). This is the Lord’s teaching on this:

The son said to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son” (Luke 15:21).

The Bible also says about those who sin after getting saved:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

David’s prayer as a backslider returning to God and asking God for forgiveness shows the pain and misery, he and others like him, are in. When the devil is tempting the righteous to sin, he will never accurately portray sin in this manner:

For the director of music. A psalm of David. When the prophet Nathan came to him after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba. Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love; according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions. Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. For I know my transgressions, and my sin is always before me. Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you are proved right when you speak and justified when you judge. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Surely you desire truth in the inner parts; you teach me wisdom in the inmost place. Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow. Let me hear joy and gladness; let the bones you have crushed rejoice. Hide your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquity. Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me (Psa 51:1-11).

Had the prodigal (or David) died physically when in their backslidden condition, they would have gone to fiery torment. We can all rejoice that they came back to the Father, but this is not always the case. God’s discipline doesn’t always bring the wayward back (Jer. 32:33). Many turn away and die physically in that lost condition, such as the Apostle Judas Iscariot. Don’t be deceived by those who would say that Judas was never saved. (Please see our book, “The Believer’s Conditional Security,” pages 279-286.)

Similar to the fact that there are two types of lost people, as stated earlier, there are also two types of wicked people. This is reasonable since the spiritually lost are also wicked in God’s eyes. But many in our day would wrongly consider the backslidden, who were previously saved, carnal Christians or elect people in grievous sin and not unsaved (wicked) at all. Such has been produced by the pernicious theology of eternal security as embraced by multitudes of religious deceived people. We have noticed that eternal security proponents don’t usually repent of their sins until they first learn that there is no such thing as eternal security, once saved always saved or the perseverance of the saints, that is, there is no such thing as security in sin.

The Backslidden are Wicked
Scripture shows that the backslidden are wicked:

For the director of music. Of David the servant of the LORD. An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes. For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin. The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good. Even on his bed he plots evil; he commits himself to a sinful course and does not reject what is wrong (Psa 36:1-4).

That fact is also a deathblow to the teaching of eternal security because the wicked are always unsaved people on the road to the fiery furnace:

Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees (Psa 119:155).

This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Mat 13:49,50).

Are You Biblically Wise?
To be a Biblically wise person, one must put into practice the word of God and by doing such he is identified as a member of Jesus’ spiritual family. Dear reader, take to heart Jesus’ teaching on this:

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash (Mt. 7:24-27).

He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice” (Luke 8:21).

Getting back to Psalm 36:3, to cease to be wise and to do good shows that such a person was once God’s child at a prior point in time, but since has lost that spiritual identity and taken on a new identity—wicked. In other words, when one turns to this degree he loses his salvation. This is taught many other times in the Bible:

But those who turn to crooked ways the LORD will banish with the evildoers (Psa 125:5).

But rebels and sinners will both be broken, and those who forsake the LORD will perish (Isa 1:28).

Eternal Sin
Jesus was the only one who ever mentioned eternal sin and at the same time told us clearly what it is:

But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they were saying, “He has an evil spirit” (Mark 3:29,30).

If you would go back and start reading at Mark 3:22 you will learn more about those who committed such a form of blasphemy. They were saying that Jesus had a demon and by the power of the devil he was casting them out and performing his miracles. This is what Jesus identified as eternal sin. It is not adultery, murder, disowning Jesus, or any other kind of sin. All of the latter can be forgiven, but not eternal sin. Another sin that can’t be forgiven is the mark of the beast, Rev. 14:9-12. (Eternal sin is apparently the type of sin those mentioned in Heb. 6:4-6 committed and, therefore, they could not be renewed again by repentance.)

So, backslider come home. God wants you back. It is the devil that is tormenting your mind and trying to make you think you cannot return to God. Remember also all the good that Peter did after he returned to God from his backslidden condition. God used him mightily and can do the same with you. Yes, you too can do great things for the kingdom of God, if you have sincerely returned to God from wickedness and will faithfully serve him. May God use these eternal truths to spiritually enlighten real truth seekers who are in desperate need of knowing this vital material.

you be bless also as you study the scriptures
Dale

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So Niel are you saying that the seed did not have life in the two types of soil ….

1) the stony soil
2) and the soil full of thorns

There is nothing hard about abiding in the vine,

But abiding does include prayer, reading and study of the scriptures, spending quality time with Yeshua.

Yeshua used many things to convey His Gospel to the people, so did the writer of the scriptures.

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Maybe you do not understand neglect….

A farmer clears a piece of ground perfectly, plants the finest grass seed and makes a beautiful luscious green pasture but then the farmer neglect the pasture and does not tend it like he should.

Within a period of neglect, the pasture will return to its original state.

So will the born again believer return to his former unregenerate self if he neglects this great Salvation.

What is a backslider?

Will the backslider that never repents of his backsliding sins be part of Yahweh’s eternal Kingdom?

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
niel
Community Member
Member # 6113

Icon 1 posted      Profile for niel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dear brother,
Jesus said “if you are not born again you will not see the kingdom of God” that means you would not understand the spiritual things, because you in the flesh. In the parable of the sower none of the seed beareth fruit accept those in the good ground. Jesus even cursed the fig tree because there was no fruit. Joh 15:2 Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. The moment there is fruit God Himself looks after it so that the fruit do not stop. If there is no fruit, there is no “new birth”. Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. The fruit is the new birth.
If I understand you correctly, we have to work hard to stay saved. Maybe we must shoot Christians right after they was saved, to stop the possibility to get unsaved. Maybe the blood of Jesus is not strong enough; we have to do it ourselves. Luckily, king David did not died while he was busy with the affair. Was it not for the grace and the seal with the Spirit, my new birth would not last for nearly forty years, and still going. Does Satan now tricked me all these years? The time when I was saved there was a saying “if Niel can change anybody can change”. In addition, I know myself I would never make it on my own. I just wonder what kept me going, having a growing relationship with my Heavenly Father. THANK YOU JESUS.
I love you my brother
Niel [wave3]

Posts: 14 | From: South Afrika Pretoria | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 1 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Do you think we really understand what happened within us when Jesus came into our lives?

Yes I do.

Before the Word of Yahweh was sown into my heart, I hated the things of Yahweh. I despised His Laws and everything else that stood in the way of gratifying all my fleshly appetites. I loved myself and was only concerned with that which added to my happiness/pleasure.

After the Word of Yahweh was sown into my heart and I embraced it, and made Yeshua/Jesus the Lord of my life. I was changed as different as day is from night.
Such a change that my own mother thought I had lost my mind. I no longer cared for my life in the selfish manner I had before. I was consumed with a passion that all could know this Yeshua/Jesus that had came to live in me. I wept day and night for souls, I prayed as Yahweh would awaken me in the early hours of the morning to pray for lost that Yahweh would place on my heart.

My passion for Yeshua went on for years but not knowing Satan as I should have and being taught the damnable teaching of “Once Saved Always Saved” found myself in a trap that Satan had carefully laid before me.
.
But for the “Grace” of Yahweh I would have been shipwrecked, my Faith destroyed.


If you don’t understand this parable Yeshua said, you will not understand any of His doctrine.

Mark 4:2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,……

……4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

Those with spiritual ears will hear, those that don’t will not.

Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away………

Yeshua explains to the disiples…..

Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

This person received the seed, the “New Birth” took place, they endured for a time but eventually spiritually dried up and died.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
niel
Community Member
Member # 6113

Icon 16 posted      Profile for niel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
1Co 15:45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
2Co 5:17 Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom 8:13 for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

When we were unsaved, we were like the first Adam a living soul, which could not be sealed with the Holy Spirit; we were born out of flesh. When we are born again, (when Christ, the live-giving Spirit, change your soul into a spirit) 1Co 15:45 we become a new creation. We change from a living soul into a everlasting spirit., Christ become part of our new spirit that can not be separated. This is as the seed that fell in the ground and become a plant, when the plant dies it cannot go back to become a seed again. With our spiritual birth, out of the seed of God there are also many changes that cannot go back to our lost soul. That is why those in Christ are refer as gods because we are like God we are born out of Him. That is why I said it is irreversible. This new creature according to 1Jo 3:9 that cannot sin, are living in a body or the flesh that have the nature of sin. It is not our spirit that sin anymore but the flesh, that is what Paul means by the battle between the new creation and the flesh. To grow spiritually we have to change this flesh into a Holy temple. You see the temple in the Old Testament is the shadow of our body; it must be a holy place for the High Priest in our spirit (our spirit is the holiest of holy of the temple where only the high priest could enter). Do you think we really understand what happened within us when Jesus came into our lives?
Be blessed
Niel [Smile]

Posts: 14 | From: South Afrika Pretoria | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 1 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
1John.5
[16] If any man sees his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This is speaking of a sin a "Born Again" believer can commit and there is no forgiveness for,

If any man sees his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.

Salvation is not a get out of "Hell" free card, live like you want free gift.

Salvation is a condition of the heart, the "New Heart" ever desiring to do Yahweh’s will

Yahweh paid the price required for salvation.
Yahweh has changed the heart of stone to a heart of flesh,
Yahweh has placed His Holy Spirit in us to help the believer to live the crucified life

But each individual must make the decision daily to continue to follow Yahweh’s Ways,

There will be no robots in the Kingdom of Yahweh, just human that chose to live like Yeshua demonstrated how to live, and gave His life so mankind would have the ability to do so.

1 John 2
1 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.
2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
3 This is how we know that we know him: if we keep his commandments.
4 One who says, "I know him," and doesn't keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn't in him.
5 But whoever keeps his word, God's love has most certainly been perfected in him. This is how we know that we are in him:
6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.
7 Brothers, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 18 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"You can not dismiss all the scripture that teach against "the damnable teaching" of Once saved Always Saved."

Not scriptual, just your oppinion.

What does the sin unto death mean to you?

1Cor.5
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

and


1John.5
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


I don't know if you have ever seen a seal put on something. Where I work once a safty valve is sealed it cannot be un-sealed.

2Cor.1
[22] Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph.1
[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph.4
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 1 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello niel, I to like what you said.

quote:
THANK YOU JESUS YOU DID IT ALL FOR ME.
THIS IS A RELATIONSHIP NOT AN AGREEMENT.

A relationship Amen!

A type of marriage relationship, two have become one relationship….

But a relationship either one can get out of if one is found unfaithful.

When a man/women becomes a child of Yahweh through the new birth, they do not become robots they still have a free will, the ability to obey or disobey Yahweh.

If they disobey the Holy Spirit is there to convict them of their transgression, when conviction is present, the believer only has to humble themselves and ask forgiveness before Yahweh and because of Yeshua’s Blood they are again in perfect peace with Yahweh..

Being Born Again is a walk with the Holy Spirit, growing, maturing, and producing fruit.

Like you said it is a relationship

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi, niel. I liked, among other things, this part of what you said:

THIS IS A RELATIONSHIP NOT A AGREEMENT.
Love You
Niel

Be blessed.

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
niel
Community Member
Member # 6113

Icon 16 posted      Profile for niel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dear brother BecauseHElives
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Keep these scriptures in mind
I did read this explanation very carefully and it makes me very sad because I feel I am back under the law of the Old Testament, which did not work. It also remind me of the fact that in our country for more then 40 years the church also used the scriptures to make “apartheid’’ good. That is why God send His only Son to help us make it work. Indeed we must live righteous and not in sin I agree fully, but this battle is not ours alone. God also have the responsibility due to His covenant, Jer 32:40 and also because he is our father.
Look at the difference between the old covenant and the new one, in the old one God said “If thou shalt hearken …. It is a agreement which never worked and never will work. That is why there is a new covenant which are working, because God said I WILL DO IT FOR YOU WITH MY SON THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT. See Jer 32:40
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
If you apply this and you are born again to become a child of God. You just relax in obedience and enjoy the love, education and the fatherhood of a loving Father.
THANK YOU JESUS YOU DID IT ALL FOR ME.
THIS IS A RELATIONSHIP NOT A AGREEMENT.
Love You
Niel [Smile]

Posts: 14 | From: South Afrika Pretoria | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You can not dismiss all the scripture that teach against "the damnable teaching" of Once saved Always Saved.

The Ungodly will not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh.

(read) 2 Timothy 3 ....

If you don't live Godly (separate from this world, other than this world in thought and deed)... you will not be part of Yahweh eternal Kingdom because you are not one of His children.

New Testament warnings to the righteous about them dying through sin are repeated, especially by Paul and James. The familiarity between these and the Gen. 2:17 and Ezekiel passages (Ezek 33:18) is evident:

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (Rom 8:13)

Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey, whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? (Rom 6:16)

Those Scriptures are written to the saints at Rome, who were righteous:

To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. (Rom. 1:7,8)

By the way, if the reader would compare Rom. 8:13 to Gal. 5:19-21 and 6:8,9, where Paul wrote the same truth three different ways, it becomes unmistakable that he was referring to the spiritual death of the righteous (not physical death) for those who live according to the sinful nature because he compared you will die in Rom. 8:13 to not inherit the kingdom of God in Gal. 5:19-21 and reap destruction instead of reap eternal life in Gal. 6:8,9. Apparently Paul repeatedly warned Christians of this possibility, unlike our dark day which denies these same eternal truths. Especially focus on Gal. 5:21.

James describes the sinning process, which leads to the spiritual death of the righteous:

but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. (James 1:14-16)

As already shown this sinning process to spiritual death dates back to the Garden of Eden, then to Ezekiel, then to Paul the grace teacher. James elaborated upon this eternal truth at the very end of his own epistle:

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20, NASB)

Notice how straying from the truth (a name for Jesus in John 14:6) is to jeopardize the soul of the righteous person to (eternal) death. But if that same person is brought back where he was before he strayed, his soul will once again be safe (or saved) in the truth. Also shown here is the truth that a saved person can become a sinner again, by straying from the truth.

How the Righteous Can Prevent Their Own Spiritual Death

The Lord Himself taught how the righteous can prevent their own spiritual death:

I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. (John 8:51)

Clearly, the Lord was not talking about physical death, since many righteous people remained faithful to the very end, such as the Apostle Paul did, yet died physically. Again, since Paul died physically, Jesus couldn�t have been referring to physical death. Hence, the Lord gave the preventative to spiritual death as being simply to keep his word or continue to obey to the end.

Jesus restated the same eternal safeguard for spiritual death in different words when he spoke the following:

Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this? (John 11:25,26)

The word translated ?believes? in v. 26 is a continuous tense in the Greek. Jesus declared that the righteous would never die spiritually as long as they maintained this type of belief, which is shown elsewhere as being a trusting, submitting, obeying faith which produces good fruit and holy behavior. In other words, the Lord was saying in John 11 that a righteous person would have to continue to believe so he would not die spiritually, which does not always happen. The Lord taught elsewhere that it is possible for a believer to become an unbeliever, at which point he would fall away as a result:

Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. (Luke 8:13)

That was the Lord's own interpretation of the following verse:

Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. (Luke 8:6)

To save their doctrine, the eternal security teachers (the Scripture distorters) sometimes amazingly argue that the people of Luke 8:13 only had a spurious or false faith, but that is not the text speaking just their own faulty theology. Not only does Lk. 8:13 say such people did believe for a while, it also states that they receive the word with joy. Real, genuine plant life, likened unto spiritual life, sprung up from the word of God, which was received with joy. The problem is such don't continue with God because they fail the test of persecution for godly living.

They Received the Word

To receive the word as in Luke 8:13 is the same description of what happened to Cornelius and his household who experienced true salvation. Just before Peter retold what happened with them we read:

The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. (Acts 11:1)

Similar to that are two additional Scriptures which refer to others who likewise received the word of God. According to the context, such describes that they got saved after receiving the word of God:

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: (Acts 8:12-14, KJV)

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. (Acts 17:11,12, KJV) Please note that the same Greek work translated received in Luke 8:13 is also found in Acts 8:14; 11:1 and 17:11. Luke 8:13 is referring to people who had experienced true salvation, just like these other Scriptures do because such people received the word. Yet the Luke 8:13 passage states they ceased believing.

Getting back to John 8:51 and 11:25,26, the Lord shared the same facts as stated there in yet a different Scripture, also from John:

I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (John 6:47-51)

Please note the word believes in v. 47 is also a continuous tense in the Greek. Believing in Jesus is compared to eating the bread of life, which will prevent spiritual death, and enable one to live forever. We eat this bread by continuing or maintaining our submissive faith in Jesus, that same truth as shown at John 11:25, 26. When one continues to believe he will keep God�s word, the preventative for the righteous dying spiritually, as stated in John 8:51.

At another time, the Lord spoke to those on the very edge of spiritual death in Rev. 3:2:

Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.

Please note it was the personal responsibility of the ones about to die to strengthen themselves spiritually. God was not going to do it for them, even though it was His will for them to be strengthened. The spiritual negligence and sloth of the righteous can be fatal.

Be Faithful, Even to the Point of Death

The Rev. 3:2 passage is similar to the warning given by the Lord in the preceding chapter to faithful Christians:

Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death. (Rev 2:10,11)

Certainly, spiritual death is implied since the faithful Christians at Smyrna were warned by Jesus to continue being faithful to the point of physical death (to overcome), so that they would not be hurt at all by the second death. The second death is another name for the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14; 21:8).

So what happens to a person with spiritual life (a Christian) who is not faithful to the end of his life? He will die spiritually. This possibility of the righteous dying spiritually is reiterated yet another time by the Lord himself, yet ends joyfully because he repents and returns to salvation:

For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found. So they began to celebrate. (Luke 15:24)

But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found. (Luke 15:32)

Please note that the prodigal was spiritually dead and spiritually lost at the same point in time, that is when he was in sexual immorality and wild living. After he repented he became alive again. Those words are very important. It says again. That means he had spiritual life before he left the Father to indulge in wild living and sexual immorality. He got that same spiritual life back again when he repented and returned to serve the Father. In other words, he was righteous yet died spiritually through sin (became lost) and later became spiritually alive again when he turned from his wickedness to serve God. (This is Jesus� teaching not some cultist or so-called works salvation person.) Hence, as Jesus taught elsewhere that one passes from spiritual death to spiritual life at the point of getting born again, He also taught the same person can pass back from spiritual life to spiritual death through sin, as happened to the prodigal.

This same truth about spiritual death for the righteous is echoed by the Apostle John in his first epistle:

If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. (1 John 5:16)

John wrote about the spiritual death of the righteous here. He stated that sin would bring that about as happened to Adam, as well as the prodigal. Another definite example of a righteous man dying, but not physically, was King David when he turned to do evil. Ezekiel warned such a righteous person will die, yet David continued to live physically as did Adam and the prodigal. These facts, of course, are all opposed by the eternal security teachers who want us to believe the devil�s teaching, as stated in Gen. 3:4. They agree with the devil and try to confuse the issue by saying the death of 1 John 5:16 is physical death, with Ananias and Sapphira being examples. In other words, they believe God in his wrath over their sin of lying to the Holy Spirit struck them dead in their unrepentant wickedness and rewarded them by taking them quicker into His paradise kingdom, which is reserved only for the holy and pure of heart. By teaching like this the eternal security teachers not only proclaim a license for immorality, but also contradict yet another Scripture, which shows that all liars will go to the lake of fire:

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars�their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. (Rev 21:8)

For some reason the eternal security teachers seem oblivious to Scriptures which show that God does sometimes strike the wicked (or unsaved) physically dead for their sin:

But Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the Lord's sight; so the LORD put him to death. (Gen 38:7)

Those Widows Died Spiritually
Last but not least, let us not forget the widows of 1 Tim. 5:6, which Paul wrote of:

But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.

Immediately afterwards, he refers to some widows that turned from their dedication to Christ (v. 11) to follow Satan (v. 15). Notice: those widows Paul knew didn't die physically, yet were dead (spiritually) because of their sins. This passage doesn't refer to those never saved, as we may assume could be the case in Lk. 9:60 and Mt. 8:22, but instead to those who were once alive spiritually like the prodigal, because they previously had a dedication to Christ and later turned away from it.

Green renders 1 Tim. 5:6, as follows:

But she who lives in self-pleasure has died while living.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579

Icon 10 posted      Profile for Itty-Bitty Girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Itty-Bitty Girl said:

Do you know what "Caerul" means, Eden?

Eden here:

Yes. From www.Google.com:

Trachelium caeruleum ssp caeruleum Species. Family: Campanulaceae Genus: Trachelium Species description: Almost glabrous perennial.

Be Caerul.

Eden

AH HA HA HA HA HA! I had to type-laugh out loud for that one! That was TOO FUNNY.
[pound]

No. "Caerul" is latin for blue, or sky colored...

Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Itty-Bitty Girl said:

Do you know what "Caerul" means, Eden?

Eden here:

Yes. From www.Google.com:

Trachelium caeruleum ssp caeruleum Species. Family: Campanulaceae Genus: Trachelium Species description: Almost glabrous perennial.

Be Caerul.

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579

Icon 10 posted      Profile for Itty-Bitty Girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Do you know what "Caerul" means, Eden?
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579

Icon 3 posted      Profile for Itty-Bitty Girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What you talkin' about, Eden? Nothing wrong with quoting Shakespeare.

That quote in my sig is very true and relevant.

You can hate it or love it. [spiny]

Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I realize that Paul in Athens quoted some local Greek poets, saying ("as some of your own poets have said"), but why bother to quote William Shakespeare? Does Shake-spear now have LIFE IN HIM that you quoteth him?

John 10:10
The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: but I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

John 20:31
But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through HIS name.

Be blessed.

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579

Icon 10 posted      Profile for Itty-Bitty Girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
I know what "glacial" in "glacialis" means.

Be blessed.

Eden

You KNOW? [Big Grin]
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I know what "glacial" in "glacialis" means.

Be blessed.

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Itty-Bitty Girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good one? Did you think I was playing? I wasn't playing with you.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes...meaning, yes, you would still like to say to Eden that "it's all wrong"? Good one, IBG.

Be blessed; thanks for the discussion, BTW.

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Itty-Bitty Girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes. [Smile]
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi, Itty-Bitty Girl. You said:

That explanation does not sound right, Eden. It appears to be all wrong.

Eden here:

All wrong? How about this:

Matthew 13:52
Then said He to them, Therefore every scribe who is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like a man who is an householder who brings forth out of his treasure things NEW and OLD.

An EVIL man only brings out of his heart evil things because he has NOT LEARNED “new” things; he only has “old” things in his heart. But a scribe instructed {read, a bornagain Christian who has been instructed in God} also has NEW things in his treasure:

Matthew 13:52
… Therefore every scribe who is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like a man who is a householder who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old.

Would you still like to say to Eden, Itty-Bitty Girl:

That explanation does not sound right, Eden. It appears to be all wrong?

Be blessed.

Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579

Icon 3 posted      Profile for Itty-Bitty Girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Hi, Itty-Bitty Girl. You said:

What is the good treasure of the heart, Eden?

Eden here:

I already answered that above but in brief the good treasure of the heart is what we as bornagain Christians PUT IN OUR HEARTS after we became Christians: we exchange the words of the world for the words of the Bible.

We hear good things from the Holy Spirit, and they go into our hearts too. Our faith is increased when we notice God answering our prayer, and that faith goes into our heart too.

All these things constitute “the good treasure of the heart” out of which a man draws. But only people who ARE reading the Bible and ARE listening to the Holy Spirit and ARE praying, end up with a good treasure in their heart.

Therefore the scripture says, “an evil man out of the EVIL treasure brings forth evil things” out of his heart, because HIS heart only contains WORLDLY knowledge, no DIVINE knowledge has been put into the evil man’s heart as learned from God thru the Bible and the Holy Spirit and prayer.

Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Be blessed.

Eden

That explanation does not sound right, Eden. It appears to be all wrong.


Matthew 12:35 in full context below::::

.
.
.
.


Matthew 12:34-36 (King James Version)

"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."


Evil words proceed from an evil heart.

Men's language discovers what country they are of, likewise what manner of spirit they are of. The heart is the fountain, words are the streams. A troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring, must send forth muddy and unpleasant streams. Nothing but the salt of grace, cast into the spring, will heal the waters, season the speech, and purify the corrupt communication. An evil man has an evil treasure in his heart, and out of it brings forth evil things. Lusts and corruptions, dwelling and reigning in the heart, are an evil treasure, out of which the sinner brings forth bad words and actions, to dishonour God, and hurt others. Let us keep constant watch over ourselves, that we may speak words agreeable to the Christian character.

Source cited: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=12&verse=34&end_verse=36&version=9&context=context

Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator



This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Christian Message Board | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

Christian Chat Network

New Message Boards - Click Here