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Author
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Topic: Faith should bear fruit, it was said
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
I thought this list by becauseHElives was good:
We are to…
a) love each other [3:12 and 4:9-10]
b) encourage one another [4:18 and 5:11]
c) “be at peace” with one another [5:13b]
d) “admonish the idle” [5:14a]
e) “encourage the fainthearted” [5:14b]
f) “help the weak” [5:14c]
g) “be patient with them all” [5:14d]
h) not seek vengeance (not repay wrong for wrong) [5:15a]
i) “seek to do good to one another and to everyone” [5:15b]
j) “rejoice always” (In context, this is a corporate command) [5:16]
k) “pray without ceasing” (again, while this certainly applies personally, it is a corporate command) [5:17]
l) “give thanks in all circumstances” [5:18]
m) let the Spirit move (do not quench the Spirit)[5:19]
n) do not despise the preaching and teaching of the word [5:20]
o) test everything (including sermons and teaching from the context), holding only to what is good [5:21]
p) abstain from all forms of evil (church discipline could be in view with the corporate context, too) [5:22]
Doesn't it also often seem true that one Christian is very good at some of the above, and not so good at others, while another Christian is very good at another set of the above?
Various members set into the body. But I do think that Jesus embodied all of the list in Himself, and as bornagain Christians, each of us is at least exhorted to try more now that we know what the list says.
Have a great day, everyone.
Eden
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
God has really been working in you as of late Dale, not that He is not always, but you have posted some really beautiful and deep things lately that have blessed me so much and made me cry tears of joy and just given me thanksgiving to know you as a brother. I know you dont need my compliments and you wont be any more comfortable with them than I am when someone gives me one, but I just had to tell you. To God be the Glory, but thank you for your obedience, patience, and love for the brethren.
This last post of yours is so important.. this is so much what I believe God really wants us to see today.
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
That is the scripture I think of. Your post was beautiful and timely.
GOD Bless & Keep you and your house!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
I'm still very concerned about what will happen to a person who has COME INTO the Family but does NOT do anything to help out in the Family, and from what I have read, it may be that God will put that person back out of the Family as being an unprofitable servant or a one-talent person.
What happens is Yahweh call not yours, mine, or anyone elses.
the job/task/work/fruit Yahweh has given each person that claims His life is in them, is to do the work, what ever it is, to aide our neighbor who ever that may be in obtaining salvation through the Blood of His Son Yeshua.
but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called "today;" lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. (Hebrews 3:13)
“one another” ministry is a way God’s Word is intended to Work in us.
2:13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
I believe that God’s Word presently working in the believers, in part, was their living it out through love, encouragement, and exhortation as we will see.
“one another” ministry is needed lest our faith die.
3:5 For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to learn about your faith, for fear that somehow the tempter had tempted you and our labor would be in vain.
with
Heb. 3:12-14 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Paul in 3:5 clearly indicates that he feels their faith could have died. This would have made his labor vain. What made him confident this was not the case were their faith and love and mutual love for Paul, which Timothy testified to. Heb. 3:12-14 also indicates that without mutual love, expressed through loving exhortation, our faith might die. This means that this “one another” ministry is vital in helping us persevere.
[Note: I am not claiming that we must produce works to save ourselves. Rather all truly saved people will work good works (Eph. 2:8-10, Titus 2:14), and it is by these works that their faith’s genuineness will be known (Matt. 7:16, James 2:20-26, Rom. 8:13, and especially 1 Jn. 2:19). Since we are admonished that our faith might be in vain (1 Cor. 15:2) and directed to examine ourselves whether we be in the faith (2 Cor. 13:5), and further instructed to make our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10), we must not take our faith for granted. Rather we must with Paul recognize that some have made shipwreck of their faith (1 Tim. 1:19), realize that we ourselves could potentially make shipwreck of our faith (1 Cor. 9:27, Phil. 3:8-14), and so resolve to hold on to faith, and fight that good fight of faith, and thereby take hold of eternal life (1 Tim. 1:19; 3:8; 6:11-12).]
We must depend upon God to energize this “one another” ministry in our personal lives.
3:11-13 Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus, direct our way to you, and may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, as we do for you, so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.
As I said before, we can believe in this, but when the rubber meets the road it is difficult to practice. Thus we must depend on God to “make” us increase in this “one another” ministry. (See also 1 Thess. 5:23-24, set at the end of a series of what I believe are corporate exhortations.)
We need to always abound in this regard and grow, doing “one another” ministry “more and more”.
4:9-10 Now concerning brotherly love you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another, for that indeed is what you are doing to all the brothers throughout Macedonia. But we urge you, brothers, to do this more and more, [See also 3:12; 4:1; and Heb. 10:25b]
We have never “arrived” when it comes to this or any other ministry. We need to be growing and abounding more and more.
This “one another” ministry has many facets.
We are to…
a) love each other [3:12 and 4:9-10]
b) encourage one another [4:18 and 5:11]
c) “be at peace” with one another [5:13b]
d) “admonish the idle” [5:14a]
e) “encourage the fainthearted” [5:14b]
f) “help the weak” [5:14c]
g) “be patient with them all” [5:14d]
h) not seek vengeance (not repay wrong for wrong) [5:15a]
i) “seek to do good to one another and to everyone” [5:15b]
j) “rejoice always” (In context, this is a corporate command) [5:16]
k) “pray without ceasing” (again, while this certainly applies personally, it is a corporate command) [5:17]
l) “give thanks in all circumstances” [5:18]
m) let the Spirit move (do not quench the Spirit)[5:19]
n) do not despise the preaching and teaching of the word [5:20]
o) test everything (including sermons and teaching from the context), holding only to what is good [5:21]
p) abstain from all forms of evil (church discipline could be in view with the corporate context, too) [5:22]
This “one another” ministry is clearly a duty of every believer, not merely the church leaders, elders, deacons, or pastors.
5:12-14 We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves. And we urge you, brothers, admonish the idle,[c] encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all….
From the above verses it is clear that each brother (and the word can refer to men or women) in the church is responsible to follow the commands of vs. 13b (be at peace) and following. Notice that 1 Thess. was addressed to the whole church. If the pastoral staff, elders, and deacons are the only ones needed to minister to us in this encouraging, exhorting, admonishing sense, why is it that most of the NT epistles are addressed to churches (ie the people) rather than just the elders? Phil. 1:1 mentions the saints in Philippi as the primary audience, with the elders and deacons also–not the other way around.
This “one another” ministry is indispensable.
4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. [See also 5:11]
Notice, Paul’s having written the words to each person in the church was not enough. They were to pick up the book/letter and use its teaching to encourage each other. Just reading the Bible and studying it alone does not cut it. We need the mutual ministry of the Word to be working in us through the mutual encouraging and exhorting, even admonishing, of our fellow believers (along with a weekly sermon from our preacher).
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∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 • Rom. 15:5-7
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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posted
Hi, Itty Bitty-Girl. You said:
"Followers of Jesus do get the free gift of salvation there is nothing they have done to earn it..."
Eden here:
"Followers fo Jesus get the free gift of salvation"?
Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? People who receive the free gift of salvation become followers of Jesus?
Though not all become "followers of Jesus" even after receiving the free gift of salvation.
I'm still very concerned about what will happen to a person who has COME INTO the Family but does NOT do anything to help out in the Family, and from what I have read, it may be that God will put that person back out of the Family as being an unprofitable servant or a one-talent person.
Be blessed.
Eden
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
The gift of grace is given to ALL men freely. It is given while we are still sinners; it is given without respect of persons; it is given to all and for all the just and the unjust and it is given based on nothing that any man save Christ has done:
Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Of course, this does not mean that all men will be saved and inherit eternal life.
The "gift of grace" profits men differently. For the unjust, the gift of grace profits them in this way:
1. They do not have to pay for the sin of Adam that was inheirited by them.
2Ch 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.
2. It allows the body of sin to be destroyed that man not forever live with sin:
3. It allows the soul to be destroyed:
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
4. It allows the devourer to be sent to the lake of fire where he can devour no more:
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
5. It allows the cursed earth to be destroyed:
Re 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
6. It allows death and hell to be destroyed so that man does not have to die again and again..
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) The same "Gift of Grace"profits the Just in this way:
1. We do not have to pay for the sin of Adam that was inheirited by them.
2Ch 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.
2. It allows the body of sin to be destroyed that man not forever live with sin:
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Ro 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
3. It allows the [b]soul to be saved from death:
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
4.It allows us to put on Christ's righteousness. The Righteousness of Christ is imputed to us:
Re 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
5. It allows us to receive the gift of HIS Holy Spirit...
Ac 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
6.It allows us to be preserved blameless unto the coming of Christ:
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7. It allows us to live this life free of the curse of the Law, free of bondage to the flesh and sin, in the Spirit; at rest; by faith; dead and yet living, our lives hid in him.
8. It allows us to inherit eternal life:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
8 . It allows the devourer to be sent to the lake of fire where he can devour no more:
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
9. It allows the cursed earth to be destroyed:
Re 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
10. It allows death and hell to be destroyed so that man does not have to die again and again..
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Now, the question becomes who receives these additional blessings that come from the free gift of Grace? They are by faith to those who believe.....
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ga 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
So what of works?
Ga 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Faith must ptoduce works, because the Holy Spirit is not without works and if we be in faith the Holy Spirit is in us.. living... working...
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Works, and fruit of the Spirit are guaranteed in the born again believer because the Holy Spirit is present.
If there are no works and no fruit, it is because the Holy Spirit is not present. and If the Holy Spirit is not present there is no salvation.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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Member # 4579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
So the branches are burned because, they did not do the Father's will and bear the good fruit, they are withered with corruption and iniquity.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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Member # 4579
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posted
Followers of Jesus do get the free gift of salvation there is nothing they have done to earn it...
but there are requirements to be a follower of Jesus.
Jesus must KNOW you, Jesus knows those who have faith in him, they are in Christ and MUST bear the good fruit.
John 15:1-6 (King James Version)
" I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
To bear the good fruit, this is the will of the Father in heaven.
1 Thessalonians 4:3 (King James Version)
" For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:"
Sanctification: the state of being made holy, made pure, purified.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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BrianGrass1234
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Member # 5845
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
So, what are the fruits, and are they necessary for salvation, or is salvation the free gift of God to whoever believes in the substitutionary death of Jesus?
What are the fruits?
Doing the will of the Father
Matthew 25:31-46
" When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
" Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. "
Are they necessary for salvation?
Evidently fruit is necessary for salvation; those that didn’t have this action in there so called faith were sent to the lake of fire.
Salvation is free in that no one can earn, work to receive salvation but it is not free in the sense when it is given it will not require your life, all that you are.
I hope you can begin to understand, I have to go for today be back when I can.
First I want to say that I think Its not any level of on going action on our part that saves us or not. Being saved and having the Holy Spirit will cause to produce good works or fruit. It may not appear so to others, but as long as your trying to follow Gods will, you producing fruit. God will see it even if no else does.
Also the last line of that parable says "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Why does Jesus state again that the righteous will enter into life eternal again when speaking of the goats. You have to ask what makes one righteous, the feeding of the hungry, the clothing of the naked or these other "works" or is it Christ work on the cross that makes us righeous. Would that then mean that even those who did none of these things mention, but did accept Christ righteousness would then be saved as well?
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
So, what are the fruits, and are they necessary for salvation, or is salvation the free gift of God to whoever believes in the substitutionary death of Jesus?
What are the fruits?
Doing the will of the Father
Matthew 25:31-46
" When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
" Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. "
Are they necessary for salvation?
Evidently fruit is necessary for salvation; those that didn’t have this action in there so called faith were sent to the lake of fire.
Salvation is free in that no one can earn, work to receive salvation but it is not free in the sense when it is given it will not require your life, all that you are.
I hope you can begin to understand, I have to go for today be back when I can.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, becauseHElives. You gave some interesting and good answers. You said:
The gift of eternal life is a free gift that requires your life.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Eden here:
In earthly life, I have never heard of a gift which requires me to do anything. A gift is a gift. I accept it, and it is mine. Whether I use the gift after I have accepted the gift, is my business, once I am the owner of the gift. The plain English definition of “gift” is, just that, a gift. A “free gift that requires my life is not a gift. It is something else, but not a gift.
BecauseHE here:
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Original quote by Eden:
The implication is being made that faith alone is not sufficient to be saved by.
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The implication is that the easy believism taught by the majority of the apostolate Church is not sufficient for salvation
Eden here:
The funny thing is that to me, easy believism IS just what the good news of Jesus Christ IS, that’s the amazing thing about it, salvation IS acquired by easy believism; that’s why it is so wonderful.
BecauseHE here:
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Original quote by Eden:
But who measures the fruit?
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Yahweh ultimately has the final say, but each member of the body of Christ has the responsibility to help his/her brother/sister if they see they are not walking according to scripture.
Eden here:
Regarding this part: “…his/her brother/sister if they see they are not walking according to scripture”, do we have that responsibility even if the person we are “trying to clean up” has not asked for help with his cleanup?
BecauseHE here:
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Original quote by Eden:
And, how do we know when we have "enough" fruit?
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Yahweh will make that judgement
Eden here:
Yes. I do think there is such a thing as an unprofitable servant.
To me, an unprofitable servant is someone who has accepted Jesus’s death on the cross and has received access to the Holy Spirit, but that person never, never tries to listen to the Holy Spirit, nor never, never tries to read the Word to be washed a little from his former type of thoughts to new kinds of thoughts, like no more lying, like no more stealing, trying to love one’s neighbor as oneself, to the best of our ability.
I think that God will take salvation back from that person, from that “unprofitable servant”, eventhough it was a free gift. But the gift does seem to have the string attached off trying to help out in the vineyard of the LORD. But I may be wrong about that…
BecauseHE here:
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Original quote by Eden:
And, which fruits do you think you have already, if so be that faith MUST bear fruit in order for us to be saved.
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I can only hope my fruit is acceptable to Yahweh
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Eden here:
Regarding “and do works meet for repentance”, what are these works, in your opinion?
BecauseHe here:
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Original quote by Eden:
It seems that the death of Jesus on the cross is a free gift from God, which only needs to be believed in:
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belief is a action word, not a passive word (faith without action (works) is dead.
Eden here:
If belief is an action word, it CANNOT BE a passive word. It is not an either or. It is only an action word. But the belief MUST BE CONTINUOUS; in other words, 5 years ago I said I was a bornagain Christian, and I am still saying that.
That is “continue to believe in.” The BELIEF must be active and an ongoing belief, but that does not suddenly turn the word “belief” into “active works”. No, the BELIEF must be constant.
The people who have this active belief are also the ones who end up wanting to listen to the Holy Spirit and read the Word and pray, which are the works. Or, what are the works again?
BecauseHE here:
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Original quote by Eden:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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no argument at all (no man/woman could ever get/be good enough to meet Yahweh’s requirement for salvation, Yeshua’s Blood alone was sufficient for our entrance to the Kingdom.
Eden here:
Wow! What happened to the works WE were supposed to do to qualify for entrance into the kingdom? The blood of Yeshua is sufficient for our entrance? Where do OUR works come into play here?
BecauseHE here:
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Original quote by Eden:
Gifts are always free, free, free. They only need to be accepted.
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BecauseHE here:
What kind of child takes a gift and does not put it to use (except you become as a little child you shall not enter the Kingdom of Yahweh).
Eden here: touché.
Paul said there were a lot of carnal Christians in Corinth. I got the impression that there were MORE carnal Christians than non-carnal Christians.
To me, a carnal Christian is someone who continues to do all the same activities as the carnal Christian did BEFORE he acepted the death of Jesus as his Substitutionary death.
But I did the impression that Paul thought that carnal Christians were still SAVED Christians, like those scriptures about “wood, hay, and stubble; though they be burned, yet he himself shall be saved.” Perhaps we are mixing rewards with salvation.
BecauseHE here:
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Original quote by Eden:
Now, what the gift may do for me later in my life is something else than me freely receiving the gift of God.
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Salvation is not given to be hoarded to yourself (remember the parable of the talent and where the master sent the servant that buried his talent).
Eden here:
Not to be hoarded to oneself? Yes, but every servant needs to be trained also by His New Owner, through the Holy Spirit and the Word of God and through prayer to Our New Owner.
It may even be that the unprofitable servant is someone who DOES NOT GET TO KNOW GOD, so that God eventually says about HIM: "I never knew you."
I think whether a salvation bears fruit is whether that person actively listens to the Holy Spirit and reads the Word of God and prays now that Jesus has rebought these rights for us again.
If bornagain Christians DO those 3 things, will have a richer daily life.
BecauseHE here:
Original quote by Eden:
1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
Romans 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Eden here: Good answer. I do think people need to be encourage to listen to the Holy Spirit and to read the Word of God and to start praying to the God Who Hears.
BecauseHE here:
Original quote by Eden:
So, what are the fruits, and are they necessary for salvation, or is salvation the free gift of God to whoever believes in the substitutionary death of Jesus?
Again belief is an action word, not a passive word.
Eden here:
If belief is an action word (and I believe it is), then it CANNOT BE a passive word. The two are mutually exclusive. However, our belief in the Substitutionary death of Jesus (so I don’t have to die for my sins anymore) MUST BE CONTINUOUS.
If there comes a break in my belief, then I put myself right back under the law and become responsible for my own death again for my sins: “the soul that sins, it shall die.”
If I step out from under the umbrella of Jesus dying in place of me dying for my sins, then I have mmediately put myself back under the law and I am vulnerable to the second death again.
But I do think that a person can RESTART believing again in Jesus's Substitutionary death and so GET BACK UNDER THE UMBRELLA of Jesus dying in place of me having to die for my sins.
(But the book of Romans does seem to contradict that a bit, saying “if once one having tasted of the heavenly, and if one leaves, one cannot get back in a second time…", but I find that a strange scripture, because many of us believed here believed as a child or as an early teenager, but then stopped believing for many years (so-called "sowing our oats") until we believed again in our Father and in Jesus, and, like the Prodigal Son, the fatted calf was killed for us, who was lost, but now is found again.
Be blessed.
Eden
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
The gift of eternal life is a free gift that requires your life.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
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I believe it was becauseHElives who said something like, "faith is dead unless it has works or fruit".
Yes I did say that
quote:
The implication is being made that faith alone is not sufficient to be saved by.
The implication is that the easy believism taught by the majority of the apostolate Church is not sufficient for salvation
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But who measures the fruit?
Yahweh ultimately has the final say, but each member of the body of Christ has the responsibility to help his/her brother/sister if they see they are not walking according to scripture.
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And, how do we know when we have "enough" fruit?
Yahweh will make that judgement
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And, which fruits do you think you have already, if so be that faith MUST bear fruit in order for us to be saved.
I can only hope my fruit is acceptable to Yahweh
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
quote:
It seems that the death of Jesus on the cross is a free gift from God, which only needs to be believed in:
belief is a action word, not a passive word (faith without action (works) is dead
quote:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
no argument at all (no man/woman could ever get/be good enough to meet Yahweh’s requirement for salvation, Yeshua’s Blood alone was sufficient for our entrance to the Kingdom.
quote:
Gifts are always free, free, free. They only need to be accepted.
What kind of child takes a gift and does not put it to use (except you become as a little child you shall not enter the Kingdom of Yahweh.
quote:
Now, what the gift may do for me later in my life is something else than me freely receiving the gift of God.
Salvation is not given to be horded to yourself (remember the parable of the talent and where the master sent the servant that buried his talent
quote:
1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
Romans 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
quote:
So, what are the fruits, and are they necessary for salvation, or is salvation the free gift of God to whoever believes in the substitutionary death of Jesus?
Again belief is an action word, not a passive word
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
I believe it was becauseHElives who said something like, "faith is dead unless it has works or fruit".
The implication is being made that faith alone is not sufficient to be saved by.
But who measures the fruit?
And, how do we know when we have "enough" fruit?
And, which fruits do you think you have already, if so be that faith MUST bear fruit in order for us to be saved.
It seems that he death of Jesus on the cross is a free gift from God, which only needs to be believed in:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gifts are always free, free, free. They only need to be accepted.
Now, what the gift may do for me later in my life is something else than me freely receiving the gift of God.
1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
So, what are the fruits, and are they necessary for salvation, or is salvation the free gift of God to whoever believes in the substitutionary death of Jesus?
Be blessed.
Eden
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