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Topic: I have a question about salvation?
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trafield
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posted
Great response, David, but I would like to add something...
The bottom line is that without faith it is impossible to please God. A prayer without faith is just speaking idle words.
A person leading another in a "sinner's prayer" is not doing anything wrong, but is simply guiding the person in their first step of repentance, providing the person motives are true. If the person has a truly repentant heart,then as Caretaker has said previously then this will be his starting-point.
We have to remember it is God who saves and who calls. The Word says that before we accepted Him, that He first called us. And as Romans 8:28-31 show, it is God that saves us and it is His Spirit that prepares our hearts for true repentance.
Yet there will always be those who want to try and make salvation an act of man instead of an act of God called 'Grace.' We need to remember who the Word says is the perfector of our faith...the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not about us, my friends, it is all about Him. If we can remember that (myself included), then we can avoid foolish arguments and controversies that hinder our walk.
God bless you all.
Posts: 225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Dec 2005
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KnowHim
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The question often arises about what a Christian should do if someone is repentant. Should we lead him in what’s commonly called a "sinner’s prayer" or simply instruct him to seek after God? Perhaps the answer comes by looking to the natural realm. As long as there are no complications when a child is born, all the doctor needs to do is guide the head. The same applies spiritually. When someone is "born of God," all we need to do is guide the head—make sure that they understand what they are doing. Philip the evangelist did this with the Ethiopian eunuch. He asked him, "Do you understand what you read?" (Acts 8:30). In the parable of the sewer, the true convert (the "good soil" hearer) is he who hears "and understands." This understanding comes by the Law in the hand of the Spirit (Romans 7:7). If a sinner is ready for the Savior, it is because he has been drawn by the Holy Spirit (John 6:44). This is why we must be careful to allow the Holy Spirit to do His work and not rush in where angels fear to tread. Praying a sinner’s prayer with someone who isn’t genuinely repentant may leave you with a stillborn in your hands. Therefore, rather than lead him in a prayer of repentance, it is wise to encourage him to pray himself. When Nathan confronted David about his sin, he didn’t lead the king in a prayer of repentance. If a man committed adultery, and his wife is willing to take him back, should you have to write out an apology for him to read to her? No. Sorrow for his betrayal of her trust should spill from his lips. She doesn’t want eloquent words, but simply sorrow of heart. The same applies to a prayer of repentance. The words aren’t as important as the presence of "godly sorrow." The sinner should be told to repent—to confess and forsake his sins. He could do this as a whispered prayer, then you could pray for him. If he’s not sure what to say, perhaps David’s prayer of repentance (Psalm 51) could be used as a model, but his own words are more desirable.
If someone suggests that if you say a prayer you will be saved, then they will answer to God for that. There is no push button thing you can do for salvation. The bible says we MUST be born-again. That is a process and if you are born-again your life will change and you will put Jesus Christ first in your life. Not just know about Him or thinking you purchased a ticket to heaven and you have it somewhere in a drawer.
To even think that a few words that take less than a moment will secure our souls forever is pure deception. Please do not be deceived. You will not enter the Kingdom of God on a few words that you spoke one time in your life. Praying a prayer is not a quick simple fix. Jesus says to us that we must deny ourselves, forsake all, and take up our cross daily (Luke 9:23-26; 14:33). These are things that we will want do daily until the day we die. We are to walk and live by faith and endure until the very end (Matt. 10.22). If you are saved you will love and put Jesus first in your life. That is how you know if you are born-again. Your life changes it focus and it then become about knowing Jesus.
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Caretaker
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Drew,
Lift me up to the Lord tonight in prayer, and I will do the same for you.
I just want to please Him, and grow closer to Him.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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Amen!!
God bless you.
To seek His will and His pathway should be our heartfelt desire.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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HE LIVES
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Drew,
Lift me up to the Lord tonight in prayer, and I will do the same for you.
I just want to please Him, and grow closer to Him.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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Caretaker
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Is the use of the sinner's prayer, a prayer of confession and invitation wrong, or is it the easy believism which has arisen?
The prayer can be a specific starting point, but it is stablishment in the Word which guides the new believer through faith and practice.
I would not reject a church which leads the new one through Romans Road, and uses the sinners prayer as a method and declaraton for Christ.
I would reject a church which has departed from the Word.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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I am only seeking the truth, and I didn't come to argue over the word of God.
However, I would feel more faithful to my Lord teaching what He and the first Church taught, and that was Repent, be baptized, and believe.
I never heard Him say repeat after Me and be saved.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
__________________________________________________
1) The Word is our source for His eternal Truth.
2) Our Lord said:
John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3) The order sounds a bit legalistic: "repent, be baptised, believe".
The Word declares that it is faith alone in Christ alone which saves.
Romans 3:
22: Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26: To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27: Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
The belief in Christ must precede the turning from sin and the turning to Christ which is true repentence. Believers baptism is the outward symbol of the already present inward faith in the one who is born-again prior to immersion.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HE LIVES
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I am only seeking the truth, and I didn't come to argue over the word of God.
However, I would feel more faithful to my Lord teaching what He and the first Church taught, and that was Repent, be baptized, and believe.
I never heard Him say repeat after Me and be saved.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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Caretaker
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One should not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
The sinner's prayer can be a starting-point, the confession of sin and lost state, the invitation for Christ to enter into our heart and life, the embarkation point for a walk of faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. This can be a beginning point to Glory.
The blessed assurance is not the words which we once spoke, but the deep and abiding faith which flooded through our soul when we received Christ Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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HE LIVES
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quote:
They prayed with their lips, but the prayer was not from their heart. Like the five foolish virgins they were without oil in their lamps.
That's what I have been saying the whole time, how can one say that a person is saved after repeating a sinners prayer? There are many who say repeat after me and you will be saved.
Who's to say it's not lip service?
Only the Lord knows, so how can a man tell another that he will be saved after repeating a prayer?
I don't think the person that's praying the prayer is in the wrong, I think it's the one who's telling him so.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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Caretaker
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Do you believe any of these people prayed a prayer to the Lord?
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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They prayed with their lips, but the prayer was not from their heart. Like the five foolish virgins they were without oil in their lamps.
It is not repentence which saves.
It is not baptism which saves.
It is not confession which saves.
It is not church membership or ordinances which saves.
It is true faith which saves, as given by grace as a gift from God.
Ephesians 2:
8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HE LIVES
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Do you believe any of these people prayed a prayer to the Lord?
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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Caretaker
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We are justified solely through the Blood of Christ.
Romans 5:1,9 “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Man’s legal standing with Heaven is one of condemnation, and worthy of the righteous wrath of almighty God. Romans 3:23 “ For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God;”
Justification is the act of God whereby He accepts the blood of Christ as the complete and satisfying sacrifice for all human sin, propitiation, thus changing our legal status and establishing a means of reconciliation with man.
Believers are justified by the grace of God through faith. Titus 3:7 “That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Romans 3:28 “ Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” We see that the status of man is changed from that of the condemned to that of an heir, one who is able to inherit. Thus man is reconciled to God through the propitiation of Jesus Christ and restored to full legal righteous standing.
If one is truly saved, justified, then the Holy Spirit will begin the process of Sanctification, with the evidence of the Fruit of the Spirit. The Believer will turn their heart more and more to God, and thus from the heart keep His Commandments.
The word sanctification means to be set apart. The Holy Spirit is endeavoring to make the believer holy (set apart from the world), and spiritual (set apart to reflect the character of God). This is being accomplished in four phases.
First, the believer at conversion in receiving Christ, is set apart from sin (forgiven) and set apart to Christ, this is preparational sanctification. Matt. 23:19 “Ye fools and blind; for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift.”
Second, the believer is set apart from the worldly realm and is set apart to the Heavenly realm, this is positional sanctification. John 17:21 “That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
The third form of sanctification sets apart the believer from the “old man” (sin nature), to the “new man” (thirst after righteousness). This is practical sanctification. 1Thess. 5:23 “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
The fourth form of sanctification sets apart from the stain of sin and sets us apart to be presented pure and without blemish before the judgment seat of Christ. This is prospective sanctification. Eph. 5:27 “That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
What could be clearer than the contrast of fleshly fruit and spiritual fruit found in Galations 5:
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Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
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Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
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Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
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Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
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If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
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Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
And these are the commandments which we are to keep:
1 John 3:
23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24: And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Caretaker
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Romans 10:
8: But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HE LIVES
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quote:
It would depend upon whether the prayer was from the heart or from the lips.
If it is truly from the heart then one will perceive a fruitful change.
I agree it can be a first step of repentance, but the man leading the prayer doesn't know if it's from the heart or not, so how can he tell this person that they are saved? Only the Lord knows this persons heart.
The bible teaches us to repent, be baptized, and believe. It didn't say repeat a prayer and be saved.
I think this prayer can be a type of first step, but I believe that repentance is an ongoing thing, not a one time prayer.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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Eduardo Grequi
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Can a man who repeats a prayer, when another demostrate how to do it , to become saved?
Yes!
This is strikingly the same as The Ethopian Eunich being showed by Philip how to believe and become a believer. See the passage in ACTS 8:26-40
Unless we show a person , how will he or she know! Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
The Apostle Paul in ROMANS 10:8-10
shows that salvation is in the heart, obedience is made by the mouth. THRU RECOGNIZING A RELATIONSHIP OF THE HUMAN TO THE CREATOR, AND WITHIN THIS RELATIONSHIP- THE CREATEE IS NEVER GREATER THAN THE CREATOR.
When one buys a new phone and does not how to use it , they go to find instructions or ask someone how to do it. THAT IS WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.
WE GO INTO THE WORLD AND ADVOCATE AND LIVE IN OBEDIENCE FOR THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, OUR WORDS (the way we communicate; COMMUNICATING CAN COME BE AUDIBLE AND NON-AUDIBLE WAYS) becomes the instructions for others to follow Christ.
BOOK OF JAMES says faith without works is dead. I take this to mean, faith that makes no change in our former walk must be of nominal belief instead of a faith that takes us thru the last mile of the way even unto death if we are persecuted thusly so.
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Caretaker
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It would depend upon whether the prayer was from the heart or from the lips.
If it is truly from the heart then one will perceive a fruitful change.
Sadly many will say to Him, "Lord, Lord", and He will say,"I never knew you".
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HE LIVES
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quote:
You also do not see anywhere in the Bible about people rasising their hands or coming to the alter.
Yes, that is very true, but nobody is telling these people that they are saved because they raised their hands, or came to the alter, but many are teaching that you can be saved by repeating a prayer.
I'm not saying that people who are born again and truly seek the Lord aren't going to be saved.
I'm saying that a man can't tell you that you are saved when you repeat a prayer after him.
What we do after the prayer may lead us to Salvation through faith, and by the Grace of God, but the prayer will not be the reason for Salvation, it will be repentance and faith by us, and Grace by God.
Men should not tell people that they are saved after they pray this "sinners prayer" because it leads one to believe that there is nothing more needed, and that is wrong. The bible teaches that we must repent.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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trafield
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quote:
Where did the idea come from that a man can repeat a prayer after another man and receive Salvation? How did it get started?
I don't see that happening in the bible anywhere.
You also do not see anywhere in the Bible about people rasising their hands or coming to the alter. The only outward display shown in scripture is the baptism of a new believer.
However, I believe many churches who do this, know that the person is saved by their faith and belief, even before they get up from their chair, or repeat a prayer, or even before they are baptised. I think the churches do this to pray with and counsel the new believer. At lest that should be the reason...
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KnowHim
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ENTER THE KINGDOM
"As you have received the Lord Jesus Christ [theNarrowGate], so walk
in Him [theNarrowPath]" (Colossians 2:6).
We come to the Lord admitting that we cannot save ourselves, and He
does the saving. That is the Gate. Now we come to the Lord every day,
admitting that we cannot enter the Kingdom, and He does what it takes
to conform us into His image. That is the Path. Hence, I have no
secret for the Christian Life, but Christ. I have no key, but Christ.
I have no method, but Christ. I have no formula, but Christ. I have
no technique, but Christ. I have no life, but Christ - for it is no
longer I that lives, it is Christ that lives in me (Galatians 2:20a).
In Him, through Him, because of Him, by Him we may enter the Kingdom.
Lord Jesus Christ, I thank You that You are my Way, my Truth, and my
Life! I praise You that I cannot save myself. I praise You that I
cannot enter the Kingdom. As I trusted in You to bring me out of
Egypt, so I trust in You to bring me into the Promised Land. As I
have received You, so I will walk in You. You are my Narrow Gate, and
You are my Narrow Path. As I am decreased, You are increased, and my
life is exchanged for Your Life. I thank you, Lord, that through You
we may enter the Kingdom.
by Chip Brogden
http://www.theschoolofchrist.org/articles/enter.html
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HE LIVES
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Should we attend a church that teaches these things, or are we better off to worship from home? What do you think the Lord would have us do?
It's hard to find a place to worship today that doesn't practice these man made things.
What should we do? I don't think that I'm better than these people, but I am worried about them. How can one grow into the Truth with these teachings?
I'm not saying that I have it all figured out because I don't, but I want to know the Truth, and I'm not willing to just set back and be fed these things that can't be found in scripture.
How do you just set back and hear these things being taught, and knowing that it's not biblical?
I want to please the Lord, but it's getting hard to know what's what with all of these man made things in the church.
It says in the book of Acts that when the church started that they had all things in common, but todays church has very little in common with the first church, and just look at all of the different denominations, that alone should show us the condition of todays church.
I don't know what to do, but I know that I need the Lord.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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When we error, it is the work of the HOLY Spirit that brings our conviction of that error, when he does this He does this that we repent and confess our sin and move on and sin no more.
Now you will be more aware of how the church has lead people into easy believism that is not doctrinally sound and you will preach the WHOLE true Gospel of JEsus Christ! Praise GOD!
Dont let the enemy keep you in guilt of your error and paralyze you from doing what you are called to do. GOD has not given you a spirit of fear. Remember, Paul persecuted Christians. God opened his eyes in GOd's time. If your eyes are opened to something that you took lightly or something that you just followed the words of man without thought, then thank GOD for showing you your error and move on... This is an error that most of us have fallen for and GOD is convicting each of us in HIS time according to HIS will.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
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HE LIVES
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Thanks for sharing that, I would like to read more on this subject.
I am afraid of these teachings, I worry about preaching a lie, or deceiving someone through a Salvation prayer.
I have been involved in ministry since giving my life to the Lord, and I have lead people through this prayer before, but now I have been convicted that this is a false practice with no foundation, and I am sorry for it. I hadn't been a believer long enough to know the truth when I first started, I just did what everyone else was doing, and now I'm sorry, and fear that I have lead people astray.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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Aaron
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Silly notion, huh?
My guess: I'd check John Calvin and, the more contemporary, Charles Finney.
Aaron
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HE LIVES
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Where did the idea come from that a man can repeat a prayer after another man and receive Salvation? How did it get started?
I don't see that happening in the bible anywhere.
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