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Author
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Topic: If you believe in something contrary to bible teaching, are you still saved?
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bandit:
Hello ahar,
<snip>
Sincerely,
Bandit
Thanks Bandit, very interesting. Sorry it's taken me 3 weeks to reply - I've been on holiday to china and internet access is a little dfficult to find, let alone the censorship of websites !
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Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Bandit
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Hey Bandit! Long time no see! Good to see you around!
Thank you. I was in the neighborhood. (Kind of like drive by posting.)
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Hey Bandit! Long time no see! Good to see you around!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Wow, there are some great points in this thread. Amen Aaron! I can so relate to your testimony; it is exactly my experience as wll.
Amen Sister White Eagle! There are so many things that Jesus taught and we are supposed to be teaching our brothers and sisters to obey all of them. The enemy is very cunning, very subtle, very shrewd. I am reminded of something that I heard YP Yohannan Founder of Gospel for Asia say... he said we too often study about Jesus when we need to study Jesus. That is for me a very deep thought.
Amen David! His sheep hear and KNOW HIS voice. It is about that intimacy. I often think of shopping with my husband.. I know the sound of his cough, or the sound of his clearing his throat. I dont have to see him and I know him by the sound of something as simple as a cought three aisles away. Anyone could say to me Hal... said thus and such and I would know without a doubt whether or not my husband said those words... we need this kind of intimacy with Jesus. Jesus had this with the Father and we must have it with HIM.
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Bandit
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
Hi guys
This has stemmed from the thread on Catholicism:
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000174&p=2#000061
My question is as in the title - if you believe in something that is thought to be contrary to bible teaching, are you still saved? Let me give you a fictional example and what I think the answer is and we can go from there:
Interested to see what you guys think.
Hello ahar,
I quickly skimmed through and didn’t see that anyone had mentioned 1 Corinthians 3:5-17 (in particular verses 12-15). I believe these are often quoted in eternal security debates. I believe these are often used in such debates incorrectly. (And I do not believe in ‘once saved always saved’, but I do believe in the eternal security of one who continues to believe.) I believe this section of scripture addresses your general question. By building on the foundation, Paul is talking (in the opinion of some) about doctrine taught by those who are leaders within the church. If this interpretation is correct, and I believe it is, then what Paul is saying is that there is a certain amount of doctrinal teaching, which though in error, is not severe enough to cause one to loose one’s salvation. But as Paul indicates in verse 3:17, anyone who sets himself against the church (whether from within or from without) will be destroyed by God. So I believe is safe to say that limited, unintentional doctrinal error will be forgiven, but severe intentional error will not (if the one doing it persists in it and resists the prompting of the Spirit).
Sincerely,
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
Consider the story of Ananias - part of the text that you pasted has a reference to Acts 5 that deals with his death. This is the same Ananias that was a disciple, a saved christian filled with the holy spirit and chosen by God to pass the holy spirit onto Saul after his 3 days of blindness. Did the holy spirit stop Ananias from keeping back some of the money for himself? No, he sinned in spite of the holy spirit. This is the point of free choice - we can choose to sin or not. The Holy Spirit will not flick a switch in your brain causing you to suddenly believe as aspect of christianity, it will facilitate your understanding but it will not stop you heading down the wrong path - that is for you to choose.
By the way this is not the same Ananias, they are two different people.
Ananias was the name of three biblical men:
Ananias was one of the members of the church at Jerusalem, who conspired with his wife Sapphira to deceive the Christian brothers, and who fell down and immediately died after he had uttered the falsehood (Acts 5:5).
* The members of the early Christian community agreed to devote their property to the work of furthering the gospel and of assisting the poor and needy. The proceeds of the possessions they sold were placed at the disposal of the apostles (Acts 4:36,37). Ananias might have kept his property had he so chosen; but he professed agreement with the brethren in the common purpose, and had of his own accord devoted it all, as he said, to these sacred ends. Yet, he retained a part of it for his own ends, and thus lied in declaring that he had given it all. "The offense of Ananias and Sapphira showed contempt of God, vanity and ambition in the offenders, and utter disregard of the corruption which they were bringing into the society. Such sin, committed in despite of the light which they possessed, called for a special mark of divine indignation."
* Another Ananias was a Christian at Damascus (Acts 9:10). He became Paul's instructor; but when or by what means he himself became a Christian we have no information. He was "a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt" at Damascus (22:12).
* Ananias was also the name of the high priest before whom Paul was brought in the procuratorship of Felix (Acts 23:2,5, 24). He was so enraged at Paul's noble declaration, "I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day," that he commanded one of his attendants to smite him on the mouth. Smarting under this unprovoked insult, Paul quickly replied, ""God will strike you, you whitewashed wall!" Being reminded that Ananias was the high priest, to whose office all respect was to be paid, he answered, "I did not realize, brothers, that he was high priest; for it is written, 'You shall not speak evil of a leader of your people'" (Acts 23:5, NRSV).
This expression has produced some confusion, since it is hard to believe that Paul would have been ignorant Ananias' position. The expression may mean (a) that Paul had at the moment overlooked the honor due to the high priest; or (b), as others think, that Paul spoke ironically, as if he had said, "The high priest breaking the law! God's high priest a tyrant and a lawbreaker! I see a man in white robes, and have heard his voice, but surely it cannot, it ought not to be, the voice of the high priest." (See Dr. Lindsay on Acts, in loco.) (c) Others think that Paul had poor eyesight and could not see that the speaker was the high priest. In all this, however, it may be explained that Paul, with all his excellency, comes short of the example of his divine Master, who, when he was reviled, reviled not again.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/ananias.html
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
Consider the story of Ananias - part of the text that you pasted has a reference to Acts 5 that deals with his death. This is the same Ananias that was a disciple, a saved christian filled with the holy spirit and chosen by God to pass the holy spirit onto Saul after his 3 days of blindness. Did the holy spirit stop Ananias from keeping back some of the money for himself? No, he sinned in spite of the holy spirit. This is the point of free choice - we can choose to sin or not. The Holy Spirit will not flick a switch in your brain causing you to suddenly believe as aspect of christianity, it will facilitate your understanding but it will not stop you heading down the wrong path - that is for you to choose.
This is goes to show my point. God will not let you continue in a sin. When the Holy Spirit tells you to stop and you don't then yes you can end up DEAD.
What happened to Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10 (see also 1 Corinthians 11:30). The “sin unto death” is deliberate, willful, continuous, unrepentant sin. God, in His grace, allows His children to sin without immediately punishing them. However, there comes a point when God will no longer allow a believer to continue in unrepentant sin. When this point is reached, God sometimes decides to punish a Christian, even to the point of taking his or her life.
That is what He did in Acts 5:1-10, and 1 Corinthians 11:28-32. This is perhaps what Paul described to the Corinthian church in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5. We are to pray for Christians who are sinning. However, there may come a time when God will no longer hear prayers for a sinning believer for whom He has determined that judgment is due. It is difficult to realize that there are times when it is just too late to pray for a person. God is good and just, we will just have to let Him decide when it is too late and trust His judgment.
http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-unto-death.html
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The Inevitable Penalty
“You will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny” (Matthew 5:26).
There is no heaven that has a little corner of hell in it. God is determined to make you pure, holy, and right, and He will not allow you to escape from the scrutiny of the Holy Spirit for even one moment. He urged you to come to judgment immediately when He convicted you, but you did not obey. Then the inevitable process began to work, bringing its inevitable penalty. Now you have been “thrown into prison, [and] you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny” (5:25–26). Yet you ask, “Is this a God of mercy and love?” When seen from God’s perspective, it is a glorious ministry of love. God is going to bring you out pure, spotless, and undefiled, but He wants you to recognize the nature you were exhibiting—the nature of demanding your right to yourself. The moment you are willing for God to change your nature, His recreating forces will begin to work. And the moment you realize that God’s purpose is to get you into the right relationship with Himself and then with others, He will reach to the very limits of the universe to help you take the right road. Decide to do it right now, saying, “Yes, Lord, I will write that letter,” or, “I will be reconciled to that person now.”
These sermons of Jesus Christ are meant for your will and your conscience, not for your head. If you dispute these verses from the Sermon on the Mount with your head, you will dull the appeal to your heart.
If you find yourself asking, “I wonder why I’m not growing spiritually with God?”—then ask yourself if you are paying your debts from God’s standpoint. Do now what you will have to do someday. Every moral question or call comes with an “ought” behind it—the knowledge of knowing what we ought to do.
http://www.rbc.org/utmost/index.php?month=07&day=01&year=06
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Eduardo Grequi
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posted
The gray area of Christianity includes areas in which God distintively molds and shapes us! Drinking a glass of wine for one might be sin, while to another drinking it won't. Our bodies and the way it reacts to it defines if we should do it. When I was in Europe for 7 years, I have seen a difference of what it means to be a Christian. While most American Protestants believe that all alchole beverages are taboo and to drink it is a horrifying sin, while in Europe it is different. I remember being at the German Family Home during the Hi holy season, they asked my what would I like to drink wine or beerf. well that became an interesting decision, then I remember Jesus' miracle of water to wine and had that. The mann of the house had asked me what is wrong Eduardo- I told them that in America, my Church believe it is taboo to drink any strong drink. Then he told me of their family adventure when visiting a sister church in Ohio, they had encountered that. The Bishop looked at the German family and did not say anything, but every one else at the outing did. We learn our discipline as we are disciple and lead by the Master Shepherd. The Apostle Paul in the books of the Corithians and Romans distinctively says that a mature and well seasoned Christian will have to be the back support of those who are weak in their faith. If Bob is following the Lord, eventually he will come to accept that God's way is very different than a humans way. Or what I would say- Jumping in the bandwagon humanity and let the number of the flock decide what is to be done.
When I have issues about rape and pregnancy, rape and incest ends up in pregnancy- Humanly speaking I would help and pray that these women would begin to heal from the inside out. I would not even judge these women if they sought abortions because to be violated like that is more horrific than anything imagineable. Forgiveness goes along ways- we just should attach anything to it. We are all sinners and from time to time we sin- some big ones and some little ones but all sin in God's eyes require the same payment.
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ahar
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
If you know Jesus Christ you will know the difference between Satan's voice and the voice of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not tell you to do something contrary to the word of God - the bible.
So if you don't know Jesus Christ and if you are hearing from Him or not. Then yes you can blythely walk into anything.
I agree that the holy spirit would not tell you you to do something contrary to the word of God, but we Humans do not always listen perfectly or fully understand. The example posted by helpforhomeschoolers (sorry, not sure of your real name) is an excellent one - she was doing what she thought to be right but eventually understood why this was not the case. If we do not look at our beliefs and ensure that they are consistent with the bible we can stray without realising, and still be convinced that what we believe is true.
The sad fact is that after we are saved we still sin - the holy spirit is not a magic bullet that means we will always head in the right direction and always do the right thing. If we are not conscious of this fact, we can find ourselves (as helpforhomeschoolers kindly illustrated) with beliefs or interpretations not consistent with biblical teaching.
I come back to Ananias - if a disciple so full of the holy spirit that he was chosen by God to visit Saul and restore his eyesight can go along the wrong path, it can happen to any of us.
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Andy
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studious
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posted
The topic seemed to be believing something contrary to the Bible (which bible? nothing specific by the posters, except me) and still be saved so I mentioned some outstanding things people believe about the bible but still being saved sinners.
Did I miss something? Or did my readers miss something?
Posts: 15 | From: Indiana | Registered: Jun 2006
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
The reason that there are so many Christians who are deceived I believe is that we do not do things as Jesus taught us to do...
Teach them... the oracles of GOD;Teach them... about me... the Gospel
Baptize them....
Teach them to follow ALL that I have comanded.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
3 steps - Teach - Baptize - Teach
That is a far cry different than walk down the aisle and ask Jesus into your heart.
Salvation is not belief plus Lordship or belief plus anything else... but belief that does not end in Lordship is not saving belief.
Works do not save us and never have it has always been grace that saved man... but we should have no doubt about the fact that faith without works is dead fatih. Jesus did not have dead fatih and neither will we if HIS is the faith of our salvation We are saved by Faith in and OF Christ and it is a faith that lives and that works.
I agree that deception comes when we do not do the things that Jesus instructed His followers to do.
Love our enemies.
Forgive
Do unto others as we would have them do unto us
Are just a few of Christ's commands.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Aaron
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I'm a living testimony of God's desire to continue to be the Father of wayward children. Much of what I thought I knew I didn't know and what I didn't know God made known to me. But in His timing, not mine.
We are saved by faith. We are matured through something called "suffering". When a sin in my life needed to be plucked out and destroyed God saw to it to send me through certain trials. There I suffered. (the sin that comes to my mind is my dependence upon money but that's another thread) Although my spirit would not be extinguished the thing that held onto the sin quickly dried up and died. The sin lost its purchase on my soul and I could walk free of it.
When I know a Christian is in sin I tell him. Often, the sin is perceived to be "ok" or even profitable for the brother or sister to maintain. In that moment my "sibling" has no desire to turn from his/her ways. But I, knowing how my Father works to mature the saints so they walk free of sin, say to them, "I want you to know God will bring an end to that thing through suffering. When He does know this: He will not set out to kill you completely and if you look for Him you will find Him to be very close to you." And usually I add, "And a word of caution: don't cling too tenaciously to that thing that binds you. God will throw it in the fire. The longer you hold onto it the greater the pain of the burn. Release it quickly and you will be saved from much suffering."
My biological brother is currently going through such suffering. I warned him of the consequences of his actions but he would not heed me. After much work to restore him it was obvious that he would have none of it. So, I told his sin to the church (the saints). It's been about three years but my brother is being humbled. The once proud and defiant man finds himself crying like a baby and asking certain people for forgiveness. While his restoration is not complete (God is still working) he has come a long way from the pit he was in.
Our Father knows how to correct His children! He never puts them in a "straight-jacket" of legalism. He brings the fire. He intends to end the sin once and for all.
Aaron
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
This seems to me to be a very dangerous way of thinking. It allows us not to challenge our assumptions and check that what we think is correct. From this, we can blythely walk into anything.
It is very dangerous if you don't know Jesus Christ and the voice of the Holy Spirit.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:26 through John 10:27 (KJV)
If you know Jesus Christ you will know the difference between Satan's voice and the voice of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not tell you to do something contrary to the word of God - the bible.
So if you don't know Jesus Christ and if you are hearing from Him or not. Then yes you can blythely walk into anything.
First one must be truely born-again and know Jesus Christ and not religion, traditions, man made rules, etc....
Quote: By this logic, as someone who is a christian, you believe that everything that you say and every opinion that you hold to be God inspired, therefore it cannot be wrong. Consequently, anyone that does not believe the same as you on every issue is not a christian and is not saved.
Don't know where you got this from. But I believe that everything that is in the Bible is from God, and I know it is not wrong.
You are correct! My opinion means nothing, nor does any mans opinion. It is God's word that we are to live by. So if one does not read and study God's word. (The entire bible, not just parts and things taken out of context.) They really don't want to know Him or how He wants us to live. If one is truely born-again they will want to know Jesus Christ better and will crave His word and want to be close to Him.
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And death shall be chosen. Jeremiah 8:3
Our Lord Jesus used these burning words, “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched,” in referring to the condition of people who deprive themselves of right judgment by persistently going wrong. (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11†). In the prophecies of Jeremiah we have the same great revelation, that eternal issues are involved in temporal living, put in a different connection. If we are going to remain true disciples of Jesus Christ, we will have to remain alien to the day we live in.
Quote from Oswald Chambers
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ahar
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
So yes, absolutely Christians can be saved and be deceieved and be even in sin, but they will not stay there forever... God will chasten them.. God will Chastise them, those who endure this to the end are the ones that are saved... were saved back when.
This is why it is not for us to say who will ascend and who will not. It is not over till GOd says it is over.
However, we are absolutely to say that sin is sin and to rebuke and reprove our brother when we see them in sin and error.
I think that's a really good way of putting it, thanks for that.
Not sure how what studious wrote fits with the topic - have I missed something?
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Andy
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studious
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posted
I was reading the posts under the topic. Interesting discussion.
I was wondering if my fellow Christians here are aware of a concept in law, earth law, called derived copyright. Only men can copyright something and to copyright the thing desired, they have to prove in a court of law, or be able to prove it if demanded, that they are the authors of said work under their copyright.
So the King James (worthy to consider for home schoolers, too) already has used all the easy words in English. And it also has an inbuilt cascading language system where everything explains everything else, and it is self defining. For instance, the King James is the only translation that tells the reader to study it. Interesting?
And, for instance, to God, what is a tree? Did you know that a vine is considered a member of the tree family? Interesting? See how it
cascades and refers back and forth without being preachie or teachie? And the message is bright only if one studies the scriptures.
And that the Serpent is said to also manifest in the form of an angel of light? And that angels are like men without wings. So the book doesn't tell the end in all its intracies, but demands FAITH, and allow God to tell everything in his good time.
So all 66 books dovetail. So we end up with a tree that could be a vine, and a serpent that could appear to be a man. Suddenly, Genesis 3 starts to focus in a way that only the studious would ever discover, and that by constant following of the commands like 2 Timothy 2:15 and 16.
Thus, the traditional teaching about Genesis 3, which scholars scoff at, becomes really nothing more than the fable of little children. And so John the Elder, having laid his head and ears on the chest of our Savior at the Last Supper ( O glory!), knowing the meaning of the Word behind the words, says to us, very gently: "little children..."
Interesting?
I have deliberately left off most scriptures in this post.
But first of all the idea of various translations is based upon errors in the King James. Believing that some book is infallible makes it the Final Authority instead of a mans teaching, a school, or a church, period. And the debate about "Whats it mean, actually..." becomes a bit more civil if the Final
Authority is outside of ourselves, and our "feelings".
The heart of man in his first adam is said to be deceitful and wicked. So much for "feelings". Or "inner light" based upon such "feelings".
And the concept of derived copyright means the author, a mere man, has to prove his version is NOT THE SAME AS THE KING JAMES. The reason why they use different words is because they are different books by different authors.
So a major publishing house with one of those copyrights went to court because a tract society reproduced their work without PERMISSION. And the publishing house wanted to obey Chinese law about house churches and tracts.
Interesting?
"By their fruits..."
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Christians certainly can be deceived. I was a deceived Christian. I was born again and worked on behalf of planned parenthood. I believed that abortion was a sin but that this was between God and the individual and that you could be prochoice and prolife. I was decieved.
God had to show me this deception that I believed and when he did, it brought me to my knees in repentance for I knew that I had sinned horribly against GOD and encouraged others to be deceived as well.
The degree to which we can be deceived is directly related to our having renewed our minds with the word.
Because I was saved, God could not (praise his mercifulness) leave me there in the deception, HE brought me to the truth and to repentance.
So yes, absolutely Christians can be saved and be deceieved and be even in sin, but they will not stay there forever... God will chasten them.. God will Chastise them, those who endure this to the end are the ones that are saved... were saved back when.
This is why it is not for us to say who will ascend and who will not. It is not over till GOd says it is over.
However, we are absolutely to say that sin is sin and to rebuke and reprove our brother when we see them in sin and error.
I have had to say to my own children (2 of them) at differing times.. You say that you are saved, and well you might be, but you are trying to live like the devil and God is not mocked... you better check yourself... make your calling and election sure.. for GOd is not mocked and HE is a HOLY God and you are in error!
GOD brought one of them around and she is such a strongly convicted Godly young woman this day.. the other one still wants one foot in the world and one in church and I am seriously concerned about her.. is she saved? I dont know.. I pray that she is, but I know that if she is she is in for a surprise because God will not leave her to do as she pleases and sometimes when God chastens us it hurts.... she is in for some hurt if she is saved... if she also better wake up and get saved because I promised God that ME & MY house will serve the Lord and that means her too and I expect that he is gonna honor my prayers one way or the other!
The reason that there are so many Christians who are deceived I believe is that we do not do things as Jesus taught us to do...
Teach them... the oracles of GOD;Teach them... about me... the Gospel
Baptize them....
Teach them to follow ALL that I have comanded.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
3 steps - Teach - Baptize - Teach
That is a far cry different than walk down the aisle and ask Jesus into your heart.
Salvation is not belief plus Lordship or belief plus anything else... but belief that does not end in Lordship is not saving belief.
Works do not save us and never have it has always been grace that saved man... but we should have no doubt about the fact that faith without works is dead fatih. Jesus did not have dead fatih and neither will we if HIS is the faith of our salvation We are saved by Faith in and OF Christ and it is a faith that lives and that works.
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trafield
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posted
ahar,
We are saved by our belief and faith in Jesus Christ, period.
I certainly do not have everything figured out and may find out in eternity that I was wrong on some things. And there might yet be some things that God will reveal in my own life that I now think is okay but that God wants me to get rid of.
With your particualar example, even though Bob is wrong and would be sinning if condoning an abortion, he is still not saved by his record of righteousness. Likewise, he is not damned by his record of sins.
He is only saved or damned by what he believes about Jesus Christ.
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ahar
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
If Bob is truely saved and has repented of his sin and ask Jesus Christ to pay his sin dept. And is truely born-again. Then he would know that murder (abortion) is wrong and the Holy Spirit that dwells in a born-again believe in Jesus Christ would not let him continue to believe anything contray to what is taught in the bible, the world of God.
This seems to me to be a very dangerous way of thinking. It allows us not to challenge our assumptions and check that what we think is correct. From this, we can blythely walk into anything.
By this logic, as someone who is a christian, you believe that everything that you say and every opinion that you hold to be God inspired, therefore it cannot be wrong. Consequently, anyone that does not believe the same as you on every issue is not a christian and is not saved. By this logic, as I do not believe in a literal interpretation of the creation story, by the very fact that you do believe a literal interpretation of the creation story I am not saved, as if I was the Holy Spirit would have directed my opinions to be the same as yours.
Consider the story of Ananias - part of the text that you pasted has a reference to Acts 5 that deals with his death. This is the same Ananias that was a disciple, a saved christian filled with the holy spirit and chosen by God to pass the holy spirit onto Saul after his 3 days of blindness. Did the holy spirit stop Ananias from keeping back some of the money for himself? No, he sinned in spite of the holy spirit. This is the point of free choice - we can choose to sin or not. The Holy Spirit will not flick a switch in your brain causing you to suddenly believe as aspect of christianity, it will facilitate your understanding but it will not stop you heading down the wrong path - that is for you to choose.
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Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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KnowHim
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If Bob is truely saved and has repented of his sin and ask Jesus Christ to pay his sin dept. And is truely born-again. Then he would know that murder (abortion) is wrong and the Holy Spirit that dwells in a born-again believe in Jesus Christ would not let him continue to believe anything contray to what is taught in the bible, the world of God.
1 John 2:3-6 (NIV)
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Hebrews 12:6 (KJV)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
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The Lord's discipline is an oft-ignored fact of life for believers. We often bemoan our circumstances without realizing that they are the consequences of our own sin, and are a part of the Lord's discipline for that sin. This self-centered ignorance can contribute to the formation of habitual sin in a believer's life, incurring even greater discipline.
Discipline is not to be confused with cold-hearted punishment. The Lord's discipline is a response of His love for us, and His desire for each of us to be holy. Consider Hebrews 12:5-7 (NLT), "And have you entirely forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you, his children? He said, 'My child, don't ignore it when the Lord disciplines you, and don't be discouraged when he corrects you. For the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes those he accepts as his children.' As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Whoever heard of a child who was never disciplined?" God will use testing, trials, and various predicaments to bring us back to Him in repentance. The result of this discipline is a stronger faith and renewed relationship with God (James 1:2-4), not to mention destroying the hold that particular sin had over you.
Continued unrepentant sin, habitual sin, or "severe" sin will often be dealt with more severely. You won't lose the rewards you earned while on earth, but you might not be on earth for very long! Read through 1 Corinthians 10:6-10, 1 Corinthians 11:28-30, 1 John 5:16-17 and the story of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5. In each of these cases sin resulted in death. This is extreme, but definitely something to consider before giving way to habitual sin.
The Lord's discipline works for our own good, that He might be glorified with our lives. He wants us to be holy, 1 Peter 1:13-16 (NLT), "Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God-who chose you to be his children-is holy. For He Himself has said, 'You must be holy because I am holy.'" If we sin without repentance we can expect to be disciplined. The hardship of discipline, however, is like a diamond in the rough, for we will be refined and strengthened. Ignoring the Lord's discipline and continuing in sin will lead to further discipline, greater hardship, and ultimately even death.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Lord-God-discipline.html
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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ahar
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Hi guys
This has stemmed from the thread on Catholicism:
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000174&p=2#000061
My question is as in the title - if you believe in something that is thought to be contrary to bible teaching, are you still saved? Let me give you a fictional example and what I think the answer is and we can go from there:
Bob is not a Christian, but after talking with some friends starts to be come interested in christianity and finally repents and is 'born again'. After studying the bible Bob starts to understand more about God's teaching, and as part of his bible study decides that abortion is okay before the 10th week as that is when he thinks that life for the foetus begins - not life ergo no murder.
This is not about whether you think abortion before the 10th week is right or wrong, for this example let's assume that it is a sin (I'm sure that most of you agree this anyway). You can apply this example to any number of issues - creationism, homosexual marriage, catholic practice of praying to dead saints, whatever. The central thesis is that Bob, by truly asking for forgiveness and looking to follow God's word in the future, has been saved. He has not turned from God, but is wrong in his belief about abortion, which can be construed as a sin. However, once we are saved our sins are forgiven - no matter how pious we are, we all sin after our salvation and Bob's sin regarding abortion is no different from other sins he may commit after being saved such jealousy, or lying or pride.
Interested to see what you guys think.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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