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Topic: Ephraim is my Firstborn
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epouraniois
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by decibel
"I (Paul) also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." (Romans 11:1)
This is the reason why Paul referred to himself a Jew. He was from the Tribe of Benjamin which shown above is part of the House of Judah.
Paul also said of himself:
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
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yahsway
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Member # 3738
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posted
John 11:50-
"nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish."
52-
"and not for that nation (Jewish Israel)only, but also that He would gather together in ONE the children of God who were scattered abroad.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
The Bible knows of no physically lost ten tribes. Even at the end of Acts Paul is able to say "our 12 tribes (present tense) instantly serving God day and night", Act 26:7 . Oh, they were lost all right, but not physically lost. James and Peter and Paul certainly knew where they were. Some wrote to them while Paul travelled to see them personally.
Yes indeed they knew where they were!
John 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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decibel
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Member # 4737
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
The Bible knows of no physically lost ten tribes. Even at the end of Acts Paul is able to say "our 12 tribes (present tense) instantly serving God day and night", Act 26:7 . Oh, they were lost all right, but not physically lost. James and Peter and Paul certainly knew where they were. Some wrote to them while Paul travelled to see them personally.
I would agree with you that the scattered House of Israel were not actually lost. However many don't know who they are or where they are today. The scattered House of Israel are not Jews.
quote:
The title Israel belongs to all the tribes.
Agreed.
quote:
The name is derived from the word Judah and originally its application was limited to one of that tribe or country. During the captivity the name seems to have been applied to any one of the twelve tribes without distinction (Esther 3:6,10, Dan. 3:8,12). In the N.T. the term Jew ceases to have the significance originally attached to it, for both Paul and Peter call themselves Jews although neither were strictly of the tribe of Judah.
The term Jew represents the House of Judah which consist of the Tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi. So yes the name is not only attached to the Tribe of Judah.
"I (Paul) also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." (Romans 11:1)
This is the reason why Paul referred to himself a Jew. He was from the Tribe of Benjamin which shown above is part of the House of Judah.
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Trust Me, Not What You See!!
Yeshua
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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epouraniois
unregistered
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posted
The Bible knows of no physically lost ten tribes. Even at the end of Acts Paul is able to say "our 12 tribes (present tense) instantly serving God day and night", Act 26:7 . Oh, they were lost all right, but not physically lost. James and Peter and Paul certainly knew where they were. Some wrote to them while Paul travelled to see them personally.
The title Israel belongs to all the tribes. The term Jew dropped its special reference to Judah, and became the symbol of a religion.
Jew.
The name is derived from the word Judah and originally its application was limited to one of that tribe or country. During the captivity the name seems to have been applied to any one of the twelve tribes without distinction (Esther 3:6,10, Dan. 3:8,12). In the N.T. the term Jew ceases to have the significance originally attached to it, for both Paul and Peter call themselves Jews although neither were strictly of the tribe of Judah.
For a discussion on this, see thread at
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004688
The last entry has several OT Scriptural proofs as well as NT statements.
ex.-
In the days of Josiah (531 B.c.-that is eighty years after the captivity of Israel by the Assyrians), we read:
"And when they came to Hilkiah the high priest, they delivered the money that was brought into the house of God, which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim and of ALL THE REMNANT of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin" (2 Chron.34:9).
Here we reach absolute, positive proof, that the ten tribes were never lost.
Ezra, in his second chapter, gives a list of those who came back to Jerusalem at the end of the seventy years' captivity, and he heads the list with the words: "The number of the men of the people of Israel" (Ezra 2:2). We are given the names of a few who "could not shew their father's house, and their seed, whether they were of Israel" (Ezra 2:59-63), and we therefore infer that all the others in the list were able to establish their claim to be members of one or other of the tribes of Israel. At the end of the list we read that "all Israel" dwelt in their cities; and we read again of "Israel" in Ezra 7:10,13, 9:1 and 10:1,5. The kingdom of Judah was taken captive by the same line of kings as had taken captive the ten-tribed kingdom, and any one of the ten tribes was as free to go back as were the members of the tribe of Judah. This we find they did (see Ezra 7:7).
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decibel
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Member # 4737
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
The British Isles are mostly Ephraim w/ some Judah and Isaac, America migrated from Manasseh, and now has become full of all the scattered tribes. The call themselves Jews today.
So are you saying that only those who call themselves Jews here in North America are from the scattered tirbes of Israel??
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Trust Me, Not What You See!!
Yeshua
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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epouraniois
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posted
Gen 48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
Gen 48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
And while it is true the sun never set upon the Brittish impire, Ephraim is not numbered among the tribes in Revelation 7.
Mat 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Some interesting verses concerning the progeny of the two lads
Genesis 48:14-16
And Israel placed his hands on the heads of the two lads of Joseph and Israel said let my name be upon their heads. There names were Ephraim and Manasseh. The name of Israel belongs to these two lads alone.
The British Isles are mostly Ephraim w/ some Judah and Isaac, America migrated from Manasseh, and now has become full of all the scattered tribes. The call themselves Jews today.
Here are just a few of the National Promises made to these who bear the Name Israel.
To have a great and mighty nation> Gen 12;2, 18:18, Deut 4:7,8
Home to be north and west of Palestine> Isa 49:12, Jer 3:18.
To live in islands and coasts of the earth> Isa 41:1, 49:1-3, 51:5, Jer 31:7-10.
Israel to colonize and spread abroad> Gen 28:14, 49:22, Deut 32:8, 33:17, Psa 2:8, Isa 26:15 and more.
Israel to colonize the desolate place of the earth>Isa 35:1, 43:19, 20, 49:8, 54:3 and more.
Israel to lose a colony, then expand, demanding more room>Isa 49:19, 20.
To have all the land needed.>Deut 32:8.
To be first among nations> Gen 27:29, 28:13, Jer 31:7.
Home to be invincible by outside forces> II Sam 7:16, 24, 29, Isa 41:11-14.
To be undefeatable-defended by God>Num 24:8, 9, Isa 15-17, Micah 5:8, 9.
To be God’s instruments in destroying evil>Jer 51:20, 51:19-24, Dan 2:24, 35.
To be envied and feared by all nations>Deut 2:25, 4:8, 28:10, Isa 43:4, 60:10, 12, Micah 7:16, 17, Jer 33:9.
To lend to other nations, borrowing of none>Deut 15:6, 28:12.
To have new name> Isa 62:2, 65:15, Hos 2:17.
Have new language> Isa 28:11
To possess the gates of his enemies>Gen 22:17.
To have control of the seas> Deut 33:19, Num 24:7, Psa 89:25, Isa 60:5
To lose her position with God (Lo-ammi); Isa 42:16-19, Hos 1:9, 10, 2:6, Rom 11:25
To be a people saved by the Lord> Deut 33:27,-29, Isa 41:8-14, 43:1-8, 44:1-3, 49:25, 26, 52:1-12, and more.
To become a company of nations> Gen 17:4-6, 15, 16, 35:11, 48:19.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
10 ¶ Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
Imagine that!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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