|
Author
|
Topic: JESUSISCOMINGSOON?
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Thank you Hitch for answering my questions. I now understand your position and I am in complete Disagreement with it. I stand firm with my Brothers and Sisters here who have tried to show you the error in your theology.
OK
H
IP: Logged | 
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rogg:
quote:
I would define the 'thousand years' as the entire time,it is historical, that Christ is enthroned in Heaven and the HS is ministering on earth. The 'Great Tribulation was the time in which our Lord's personal and judgemental prophcies against Israel,Matt 21;33-23;37 came to pass. Antichrist is alway sactive and Jesus said the wheat and tares would co-exist until the end but to answer directly I dont believe in a 'persoanl' antichrist coming world dictator. I believe in a Kigndom growing in the midst of her enemies.
So Hitch, I guess you are either Catholic or Universalist.
Well dont go on Jepordy quote:
The Bible specifically says there will be an anti-christ that will cause all to receive a mark or be killed.
Really? There are only four of five Scriptures that specicfily say antichrist ,, and none of them say anything about a mark of any kind. And the ternm nerver comes up in the eApocalypse,,, quote:
Revelation 13:16-17
16.He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
17.and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
This event has not happened in history yet.
In Matthew 24 Jesus said the end time judgements will be world wide, not just against Israel.
Matthew 24:7
7."For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
Jesus will reign for 1000 years after his physical return to earth.
Revelation 20:4-5
4.And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5.But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
And last but not least Jesus said his Kingdom is not of this world, because this world is corrupted.
John 18:36
36.Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."
My advice to you would be to ask Jesus into your heart, and be baptized in the Holy Spirit so you can actually see these things.
LOL I love this. The standard futurist implication that only thier eschatology can be used as a test of salvation. quote:
John 3:5-7
5.Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6."That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7."Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Rog
Free advise is always worth the cost.
IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
Thank you Hitch for answering my questions. I now understand your position and I am in complete Disagreement with it. I stand firm with my Brothers and Sisters here who have tried to show you the error in your theology.
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Rogg
Advanced Member
Member # 5394
|
posted
quote:
I would define the 'thousand years' as the entire time,it is historical, that Christ is enthroned in Heaven and the HS is ministering on earth. The 'Great Tribulation was the time in which our Lord's personal and judgemental prophcies against Israel,Matt 21;33-23;37 came to pass. Antichrist is alway sactive and Jesus said the wheat and tares would co-exist until the end but to answer directly I dont believe in a 'persoanl' antichrist coming world dictator. I believe in a Kigndom growing in the midst of her enemies.
So Hitch, I guess you are either Catholic or Universalist.
The Bible specifically says there will be an anti-christ that will cause all to receive a mark or be killed.
Revelation 13:16-17
16.He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
17.and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
This event has not happened in history yet.
In Matthew 24 Jesus said the end time judgements will be world wide, not just against Israel.
Matthew 24:7
7."For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
Jesus will reign for 1000 years after his physical return to earth.
Revelation 20:4-5
4.And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5.But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
And last but not least Jesus said his Kingdom is not of this world, because this world is corrupted.
John 18:36
36.Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."
My advice to you would be to ask Jesus into your heart, and be baptized in the Holy Spirit so you can actually see these things.
John 3:5-7
5.Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6."That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7."Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Rog
Posts: 83 | From: St. Louis MO | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WKUHilltopper
Advanced Member
Member # 5472
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rogg:
Well Hitch, the thing is, your question has been answered, "soon" meaning at "any minute" so it could be in the next ten minutes or in the next ten years. Because nobody really knows when the rapture will take place.
Well, if you die before His return, that'll be soon enough.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Hitch, just what is it that You believe? I'm having a hard time figuring this out. Help me understand where you're coming from, K?
Do you believe that Jesus is not coming a Second Time?
Jesus will return bodily to raise all who are in the graves, Not to 'set up his Kingdom' that has long since been accomplished quote:
Do you believe that the "Church" has replaced Israel?
I agree with Paul that the church is the houshold of God and Abe's seed, and with Pete that the church is a holy nation of royal priests,and witht eh writer of Hebres that the church is the city of the Living God. So I would say completed over replaced, but its really a matter of symantics. quote:
Do you believe the Anti-Christ has already come and therefore the Tribulation is over and we're in the 1,000 year reign?
I would define the 'thousand years' as the entire time,it is historical, that Christ is enthroned in Heaven and the HS is ministering on earth. The 'Great Tribulation was the time in which our Lord's personal and judgemental prophcies against Israel,Matt 21;33-23;37 came to pass. Antichrist is alway sactive and Jesus said the wheat and tares would co-exist until the end but to answer directly I dont believe in a 'persoanl' antichrist coming world dictator. I believe in a Kigndom growing in the midst of her enemies. quote:
I ask these questions the way I do because I'm getting the impression that the above is what you believe. I hope you'll clarify this for me. I don't have time to read all the various posts spread out over the two sections and some of them have me confused.
I much prefer being asked rather than told what I believe. However the way some of your questions were worded made less complex answers impossible. If I left anything unclear please ask again quote:
I'm also very curious as to why you appear to be so Rude in some of your posts? Is it not possible to 'discuss' things without resorting to personal insults? As I said in another post, that is anything but Christ-Like.
If because I disagrred with you and therefore posted SCriptures condemning you as given over to your own lusts etc you might,the first time 'turn the other cheek' at some point, at least in a forum setting one must fight back. Just as if you made a thread about the Sermon on the Mount and I flooded it with the geneoligies or massive quotes from the Apocalypse you would have a reasonable complaint. quote:
Oh, one more very important question... Are you a Born Again Believer/Follower in/of Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
Ya mean the Guy who said the resurrection was on the last day??? Sure. quote:
Please, if you do answer my qeustions, let it be in simple to understand terms. I don't have a lot of time to read long explanations. Thanks!
Like I said ,some of your questions required some detail.
Take care
Hitch
IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
Hitch, just what is it that You believe? I'm having a hard time figuring this out. Help me understand where you're coming from, K?
Do you believe that Jesus is not coming a Second Time?
Do you believe that the "Church" has replaced Israel?
Do you believe the Anti-Christ has already come and therefore the Tribulation is over and we're in the 1,000 year reign?
I ask these questions the way I do because I'm getting the impression that the above is what you believe. I hope you'll clarify this for me. I don't have time to read all the various posts spread out over the two sections and some of them have me confused.
I'm also very curious as to why you appear to be so Rude in some of your posts? Is it not possible to 'discuss' things without resorting to personal insults? As I said in another post, that is anything but Christ-Like.
Oh, one more very important question... Are you a Born Again Believer/Follower in/of Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
Please, if you do answer my qeustions, let it be in simple to understand terms. I don't have a lot of time to read long explanations. Thanks!
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
Well Hitch, the thing is, your question has been answered, "soon" meaning at "any minute" so it could be in the next ten minutes or in the next ten years. Because nobody really knows when the rapture will take place.
But if you seek the Lord, these verses will tell you about when Jesus will return to Jerusalem.
No Roggg. My question ,and this is clearly laid out in the OP, is directed to a contemporary speaker. Specificly not to a passage of Scripture.
For example were I to ask you how far it is to the next town and you answered 'not far' , it would be reasonable of me to ask for a less ambiguous response, say how many miles etc.
Take care
Hitch
IP: Logged |
|
|
Rogg
Advanced Member
Member # 5394
|
posted
Well Hitch, the thing is, your question has been answered, "soon" meaning at "any minute" so it could be in the next ten minutes or in the next ten years. Because nobody really knows when the rapture will take place.
But if you seek the Lord, these verses will tell you about when Jesus will return to Jerusalem.
Daniel 9:24-27
24."Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.
25."Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times.
26."And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27.Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate."
There are 2 prophecies here, both pretain to when Jesus is riding an equine through Jerusalem.
Rog
Posts: 83 | From: St. Louis MO | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
Amen Sis!!!!!!!
The blind rage against the messenger, but the truth of God's Word renders the railers irrelevant, for His Truth is eternal and immutable regardless of man's denial.
In fact one wonders if those who deny and rail against God's Truth might in fact be coming from Egypt, and are stuck in De Nile.. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Romans 8:
38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Reminds me of those who hear certain preaching in the last days:
Rev. 11:
3: And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4: These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5: And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6: These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7: And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8: And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9: And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10: And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11: And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12: And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:
Hitch these verses describe you.
Just lets me know that the coming of Jesus is SOON!
Jud 1:18 — How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
who
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
So what does this have to do with asking how you use 'soon' or 'near'?
And your representing what whith the quote below?
Just lets me know that the coming of Jesus is SOON!
If you're implying that is what I posted you are at best misinformed at worst dishonest. I'll repeat the basic question from the OP below and you can deal with your foolish judgements with the Lord.
What do you mean by 'soon' ?
If you have publicly claimed that you sense ,feel, see in the 'signs' , the Scriptures, whathaveyou that Christ will 'soon' iether make an appearence or cause the 'rapture' what exactly did you mean?
No Im not asking what you think a particular passage means or for your interpretation of the standard proof texts etc. Im asking for what YOU meant by 'soon' or 'near' etc. as you used it in concrete terms.
So did you mean weeks ,months,years, decades? I challenge you to be as specific as you can. Especially if you have claimed or implied that you have recieved anything directly from the Lord.
If asking for a definition of a term qualfies me as a scoffer and all the reast so be it.
H
IP: Logged |
|
|
Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
|
posted
Hitch these verses describe you.
Just lets me know that the coming of Jesus is SOON!
Jud 1:18 — How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
who
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Closer then when the prophecies speaking of Nation Israel were inspired. Closer then when I came to Christ 29 years ago. Closer then when I began to study the true context of the Word more than a dozen years ago. Closer then when I began to post on the internet 6 years ago. Closer than when I understood that replacement theology was corrupt and false interpretation of His Word. Closer than the very last breath I took and the last key I typed.
As with the wise virgins we await the coming of the BrideGroom with ultimate joy and anticipation, and with the truth of His Word in our hearts and in our lives.
Maranatha!!!!!!!!
LOL You should put a chicken up for your avatar. You have a great fear of direct answers.
And an appearent taste for footwear.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
Closer then when the prophecies speaking of Nation Israel were inspired. Closer then when I came to Christ 29 years ago. Closer then when I began to study the true context of the Word more than a dozen years ago. Closer then when I began to post on the internet 6 years ago. Closer than when I understood that replacement theology was corrupt and false interpretation of His Word. Closer than the very last breath I took and the last key I typed.
As with the wise virgins we await the coming of the BrideGroom with ultimate joy and anticipation, and with the truth of His Word in our hearts and in our lives.
Maranatha!!!!!!!!
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
The times and the seasons are near, the Nation Israel has arisen as prophecied, they will be redeemed as Brother Paul has declared, the man of sin will arise as declared, whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming as declared:
The question here is what do you mean 'near' as used above?
Weeks ,moths ,years ,decades?
H
IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
Amen Sis!!!!!!!!
The times and the seasons are near, the Nation Israel has arisen as prophecied, they will be redeemed as Brother Paul has declared, the man of sin will arise as declared, whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming as declared:
1 Thess. 5:
1: But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2: For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3: For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4: But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5: Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6: Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7: For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8: But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10: Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11: Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
2 Thess. 2:
1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5: Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6: And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:
I meant rapture and it will be any second now, thats what I believe soon to mean.
Jesus said, "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come" (Mat 24:42).
"But yea brethren, are not in darkness that that day should overtake you as a thief" (1 Thes 5:4).
In fact, our Lord said its occurrence would come as a total surprise.
"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 24:44).
If I remember correctly you also support the notion that modern Israel is the fulfilment of prophecy. Is that correct?
H
IP: Logged |
|
|
Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
|
posted
I meant rapture and it will be any second now, thats what I believe soon to mean.
Jesus said, "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come" (Mat 24:42).
"But yea brethren, are not in darkness that that day should overtake you as a thief" (1 Thes 5:4).
In fact, our Lord said its occurrence would come as a total surprise.
"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 24:44).
--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:
quote:
So the question is begged.
What do you mean by 'soon'
Soon
In a short time; shortly after any time specified or supposed; as, soon after sunrise.
Without the usual delay; before any time supposed; early.
Promptly; quickly; easily.
Readily; willingly; -- in this sense used with would, or some other word expressing will.
Speedy; quick.
So did you mean weeks ,months,years, decades? I challenge you to be as specific as you can. Especially if you have claimed or implied .
hat you have recieved anything directly from the Lord.
So when you put it together, maranatha means "Our Lord, come." It perfectly conveys the concept that the Lord could come at any moment. You didnt address whether you measnt 'rapture' or Sceond Advent, or at least I didnt see it...
Take care
Hitch
IP: Logged |
|
|
Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
|
posted
quote:
So the question is begged.
What do you mean by 'soon'
Soon
In a short time; shortly after any time specified or supposed; as, soon after sunrise.
Without the usual delay; before any time supposed; early.
Promptly; quickly; easily.
Readily; willingly; -- in this sense used with would, or some other word expressing will.
Speedy; quick.
--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
Well that doest really answer the question does it Kindgo?
I specificly stated that this is not a request for interpretation of proof texts.
But your response does bring up an asociated problem with imminency. Most folks who proclaim that the Lord could return* any moment also cite 'signs' in the daily news,,,and they dont even know this is a problem.
The question here is for those who have publicly stated their expectation that Christ will return 'soon' or in the 'near future' and related terms.For example Hagee recently used the term 'nanoseconds'.
* Usually this means 'rapture' rather than the Second Advent depending on group.
terchangably with 'rapture' and event supposedly seperated by as much as 7 years is eveident in your quote below'
So when you put it together, maranatha means "Our Lord, come." It perfectly conveys the concept that the Lord could come at any moment.
I cant know whether you are referring to the SecondAdvent or the 'rapture' here. Likely your reference is the 'rapture'. Please clairfy.
Take care
Hitch
IP: Logged |
|
|
Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
|
posted
God's Word clearly teaches imminence of the rapture and emphasizes that we should always be ready for that event!
"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh" (Mat. 24:44).
"Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch" (Mk. 13:35-37).
"Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev. 3:3).
"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matt. 25:1-13).
Only with the pre-trib view can the doctrine of imminency be adhered to. Other views require certain things to occur before we can even begin looking for the Lord's return!
One the strongest cases one can make for the early Church expecting an imminent return of Christ is to note their use of the word maranatha, which was used as a greeting in those days. When believers gathered or parted, they didn't say "hello" or "goodbye"; they would say "Maranatha!"
I've encountered some writings that say Maranatha is Hebrew and Greek, but it is actually an Aramaic expression. In fact, it is made up of three Aramaic words: Mar, which means "Lord”; ana, which means "our"; and tha, which means "come."
So when you put it together, maranatha means "Our Lord, come." It perfectly conveys the concept that the Lord could come at any moment.
Maranatha is used once in the Bible by Paul as part of a curse. In 1 Corinthians 16:22, Paul said, "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema. Maranatha." The word “anathema” means “banned,” so Paul was saying, “Let him be banned from our Lord's coming.”
The interesting thing about maranatha is that it comes in the form of a petition. When a Christian in the early Church would make this statement, he was actually petitioning the Lord to come. This obviously implies the belief that it was possible for Jesus to answer the appeal.
If members of the first-century Church believed that certain events needed to take place before the Savior could return, they would have been silly to greet each other with “maranatha.” They lived nearly 2,000 years ago, and yet they seem to have had a deeper awareness of imminency than many of today's Christians.
--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Hitch
unregistered
|
posted
It seems the majoirty here believe Jesus is coming soon. Its in many posts . When I was a boy the 'spiritual' ones ended nearly every sentence with 'shouldtheLordtarry'...
So the question is begged.
What do you mean by 'soon' ?
If you have publicly claimed that you sense ,feel, see in the 'signs' , the Scriptures, whathaveyou that Christ will 'soon' iether make an appearence or cause the 'rapture' what exactly did you mean?
No Im not asking what you think a particular passage means or for your interpretation of the standard proof texts etc. Im asking for what YOU meant by 'soon' or 'near' etc. as you used it in concrete terms.
And please dont try the 'God's time is different thng'
A common objection is that its impossible to set any dates;;; Well there is no such request in the question.
So did you mean weeks ,months,years, decades? I challenge you to be as specific as you can. Especially if you have claimed or implied that you have recieved anything directly from the Lord.
Take care
Hitch
IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
